Camp Goff

jiggins7919

When I watch both Goff and Wentz throw the ball, my eyes tell me that Goff is the more talented thrower. He doesn't seem to work as hard to get the ball out of his hand, and his throwing motion is elegant. Goff also has extraordinary touch on the ball, and displayed more "drop it in the bucket" throws than just about anybody last year.

Wentz most certainly has his attributes as well, and this is a rare situation when I find myself not really caring which one we take. My only hope is that one of the two QB's in the conversation is actually WORTH the second pick of the draft. Somebody much smarter than me has to make that call, but I do know that neither Goff or Wentz are as talented as Winston or Mariota from last year. Obviously that's completely debatable, but that's what I see. Mariota had some real stinkers last year, but displayed tremendous grit and had a few outstanding games. Winston (my FSU boy!), was rookie of the year, and maybe struggled with accuracy a bit and turnovers (especially in red zone...he missed a lot of TD's), but virtually ALL rookies go through that. Winston's ceiling is ridiculous, and his "off the field issues" proved to be a non-factor.

bbedward

I'm happy that the sentiment has changed and it no longer seems like we're a lock for Wentz.

calfoxwc

Why do you think the sentiment has changed? Of course they are commenting on Goff,

he was terrific at his pro day.

Wentz hasn't had his pro day. I believe it's tomorrow. And nobody is a "lock". Neither Goff nor Wentz

has never been a "lock".

The only lock, is that I would draft Wentz at 2, absolutely, no doubt about it, take it to the bank.

Goff is a terrific college qb, but so is Wentz. I just think Goff isn't a fit for the Browns, personality wise.

I guess the biggest reason I'm all in on Wentz for the Browns... is that, like I've told Canton Mike and maybe

Flugels... Goff's personality reminds me of Jay Cutler. Old Shepsies had lovesies for Jay Cutler.

Wentz's personality is the anti-Jay Cutler, and that's a great thing.

so, I just and searched, and amazingly, lol... I'm not the only observer that thinks it.

Seriously, I just lol'd when I found this:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25527291/an-nfc-scout-is-not-big-on-jared-goff-to-me-hes-another-jay-cutler

Mike H

@bbedward said:
I'm happy that the sentiment has changed and it no longer seems like we're a lock for Wentz.

These are the types of things that absolutely do not matter. Sentiment from people outside their inner circle is good for talk radio and web forums, but it does_not_matter.

The Gipper

@mike-h said:
These are the types of things that absolutely do not matter. Sentiment from people outside their inner circle is good for talk radio and web forums, but it does_not_matter.

Right. Unless your name is Andrew Berry, Paul Depodesta, Sachi Brown, Hue Jackson or Jimmy (and Dee?) Haslam...your opinions on the subject don't amount to a cabbage fart.

RoyceRolls

I think Connor Cook is the Jay Cutler of this class...

calfoxwc

Close, but he doesn't have the arm...

joedawg69

Oh shit, you are right Gipper. I remember that draft now. We have had so many bad drafts that I am starting to get them confused. Anyway, I hope we get it right this time.

Tour2ma

Another Goff article in MMQB that (shocker) agrees with what I see. Focus of the article is on parallels with Tim Couch. It includes some interesting lineage connections and comments form Bruce Ariens on Tim Couch that I'd not read before.

So even for the non-Goff folk, there's a good read to be found...

Jared Goff May Be the Next Tim Couch — In a Good Way!

by Robert Mays Mar. 31, 2016

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/30/nfl-jared-goff-cleveland-browns-tim-couch-2016-draft

Great arms come along all the time, but by the end of his time at Cal, Goff’s control—of both his surroundings and the Cal offense—is what put distance between him and the rest of the country’s prospects. His pocket presence seems preternatural. Goff navigated traffic with what seemed like a sixth sense during his final year at Cal, side-stepping rushers and finding throwing lanes while never fixating on those chasing him. He says he never sees actual rushers, only “flashes of color” in his peripheral vision, and it shows. Last season was also the first in which Goff was given complete audible power at the line of scrimmage. When he felt the need to change a play, there was a green light to do it.

The Gipper

I still have the image of the 5 interceptions he threw vs. Utah...in really the first game I saw him play.

You know what they say: You only have on chance to make a first impression. His impression was a crater in that game.

So, you see why I am not that high on him.

Perhaps his level of quality fits in with Vinny Interceptaverde...which is what I have seen.

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:
I still have the image of the 5 interceptions he threw vs. Utah...in really the first game I saw him play.

Of the five, how many do you place on Goff?

gftChris

@tour2ma said:

Of the five, how many do you place on Goff?

IIRC 2.

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Of the five, how many do you place on Goff?

All of them.

Mike H

@tour2ma said:

Another Goff article in MMQB that (shocker) agrees with what I see. Focus of the article is on parallels with Tim Couch. It includes some interesting lineage connections and comments form Bruce Ariens on Tim Couch that I'd not read before.

So even for the non-Goff folk, there's a good read to be found...

Jared Goff May Be the Next Tim Couch — In a Good Way!

by Robert Mays Mar. 31, 2016

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/30/nfl-jared-goff-cleveland-browns-tim-couch-2016-draft

Great arms come along all the time, but by the end of his time at Cal, Goff’s control—of both his surroundings and the Cal offense—is what put distance between him and the rest of the country’s prospects. His pocket presence seems preternatural. Goff navigated traffic with what seemed like a sixth sense during his final year at Cal, side-stepping rushers and finding throwing lanes while never fixating on those chasing him. He says he never sees actual rushers, only “flashes of color” in his peripheral vision, and it shows. Last season was also the first in which Goff was given complete audible power at the line of scrimmage. When he felt the need to change a play, there was a green light to do it.

Mays is my favorite writer. Great piece

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:
All of them.

lol...

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:
lol...

Probably not.....I would have to review the film. Most were on him....but the QB always gets the blame, even if it isn't really his fault.

Since you seem to think you know what happened in that game so intimately....give us your views.....off the top of your head.

Don't bother. Here is the film:

I would say 3 for sure were his fault. One was not. One other could be considered either way.

Mike H

All but 1 (the first one) were on Goff.

Those 4 throws had: a bad decision, a first-read lock, an overthrow and a breakdown.

Four bad, bad throws.

Here's a good video making the rounds today:

He throws off balance and short-arms it. Bad decision. Not a great throw. But it works. Good anticipation.

The Gipper · Apr 1, 2016 160 20View on X

@mike-h said:

All but 1 (the first one) were on Goff.

Those 4 throws had: a bad decision, a first-read lock, an overthrow and a breakdown.

Four bad, bad throws.

Here's a good video making the rounds today:

https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/status/715941609234436096/video/1

He throws off balance and short-arms it. Bad decision. Not a great throw. But it works. Good anticipation.

Maybe it worked at Cal.....not so sure about the NFL.

Mike H

That clip prompted alleged NFL draft expert Matt Miller at Bleacher Report to tweet "QB1" --- People see what they want to see, and none of it matters unless you work for one of the teams. Miller, Rob Rang, and any other media prognosticator isn't talented enough to get a job with one of the 32 teams.

Daniel Jeremiah is the one exception to my rule on that, IMO.

There isn't much in that clip for me to get excited about.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@mike-h said:

That clip prompted alleged NFL draft expert Matt Miller at Bleacher Report to tweet "QB1" --- People see what they want to see, and none of it matters unless you work for one of the teams. Miller, Rob Rang, and any other media prognosticator isn't talented enough to get a job with one of the 32 teams.

Daniel Jeremiah is the one exception to my rule on that, IMO.

There isn't much in that clip for me to get excited about.

This clip shows one thing and one thing only - confirmation bias. Just like you said.

People who don't like Goff will see a poor PA fake, short armed throw and an absolutely ugly pass.

People who do like Goff will see a decent side step, great anticipation and perfect ball placement.

People who don't care either way will see both and wonder "it's impressive, yet how often will that work in the NFL?"

Goff is a good talent. If Goff can thread the same needles in the NFL, he'll be a great pro. Just like people pile on Wentz that the speed of the game will change, the speed changes the exact same for Goff. That's really all there is to it.