New beginnings - Danny Shelton
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I'm very interested in seeing some of our second year players, especially Shelton. He's healthy, in great shape, and always has been a hard worker.
Sorry, he may be in great shape if he were playing OG maybe, but he still looks out of shape for a DL. I will be impressed when I see a player capable of staying on the field through a whole series, series after series. Until then it;'s just another fluff piece. Match the effort of JJ Watt down after down with rare breaks and I will be even more impressed. Right now I think I could stay out of his way and wear him out in 10 rounds of boxing.
EDIT: I have the perfect Browns nickname for him too, Two Down Danny.
Sorry, he may be in great shape if he were playing OG maybe, but he still looks out of shape for a DL. I will be impressed when I see a player capable of staying on the field through a whole series, series after series. Until then it;'s just another fluff piece. Match the effort of JJ Watt down after down with rare breaks and I will be even more impressed. Right now I think I could stay out of his way and wear him out in 10 rounds of boxing.
EDIT: I have the perfect Browns nickname for him too, Two Down Danny.
Aggies, you should have added this to the end of your edit: "Trust me - don't trust me!" In college, Danny weighed more than he did here and stayed on the field as an every down defender a high percentage of the time. He was a pretty popular draft prospect in here months before we drafted him.
In Cleveland, the coaching staff preferred to see their big defensive linemen sprinting from the sideline to the 3 point stance prior to the snap not too long after they just had to sprint off the field. They were constantly taking their big guys on and off the field, which seems like an exact opposite to getting fresh legs and a full tank of O2. I noticed this before Shelton even arrived when we beat TN in Nashville in 2014. The TV cameras don't always pick up the influx of players leaving and returning to the field in between plays. When you're up in the stands at the game - it jumps out at you. Do you know what got them fresher legs as we erased a 28-3 deficit? Long sustained drives on the ground by the offense on a day Ben Tate would rush for 124 yards on 22 carries at 5.6 yards per carry (without any runs longer than 15 yards).
While I understand, there's different situations/packages for DBs and LBers - I never cozied up to sprinting our big guys on and off the field every other play. I can't imagine sprinting anyone with a 330-360 pound frame from the sideline to our own 2 yard line to face a double team involving Nick Mangold is as easy on the legs and oxygen as just remaining out there for the entire series/drive. Again, the film showed Danny Shelton excelled at staying on the field which seemed to be a big reason for the intrigue to draft him at #12 overall. He's a guy that gets better with the flow of the game just like a lot of players. A lot of times you'll see players that are tired get really sloppy with how high they come out of their stances/pad height. Asking the wide bodied DTs to do about a 30-40 yard wind sprint after they just sprinted off the field to hurry back into a 3 point stance (out of breath) to face a double team can lead to the mental fatigue conducive to sloppier pad heights. Much of this was unnecessary if they just opted to re-examine their substitution frequency/process IMO. I never noticed all the frequent mass substitutions up front helping us shed blockers easier, tackle better, or improve us at hurrying passers. I'm guessing neither did our opponents which partially explains why most of our opponents didn't want to no huddle us. Tiring out our big fellers with 2 wind sprints between 3 point stances was too helpful for them to turn down.
We never won any games by outsmarting our opponents in 2015 but we sure did outsmart ourselves a lot.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
and that, from Mr. Flugels, is one of the best posts I'll ever read on the subject. Taking Shelton and co. on and off the field,
was really ignorant. I suppose they had some kind of reason to decide stupidly, but it didn't work, and I'm
still wondering how the )(*&^(*^ they thought it was ever a good idea.
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Sorry, he may be in great shape if he were playing OG maybe, but he still looks out of shape for a DL. I will be impressed when I see a player capable of staying on the field through a whole series, series after series. Until then it;'s just another fluff piece. Match the effort of JJ Watt down after down with rare breaks and I will be even more impressed. Right now I think I could stay out of his way and wear him out in 10 rounds of boxing.
EDIT: I have the perfect Browns nickname for him too, Two Down Danny.
Aggies, you should have added this to the end of your edit: "Trust me - don't trust me!" In college, Danny weighed more than he did here and stayed on the field as an every down defender a high percentage of the time. He was a pretty popular draft prospect in here months before we drafted him.
In Cleveland, the coaching staff preferred to see their big defensive linemen sprinting from the sideline to the 3 point stance prior to the snap not too long after they just had to sprint off the field. They were constantly taking their big guys on and off the field, which seems like an exact opposite to getting fresh legs and a full tank of O2. I noticed this before Shelton even arrived when we beat TN in Nashville in 2014. The TV cameras don't always pick up the influx of players leaving and returning to the field in between plays. When you're up in the stands at the game - it jumps out at you. Do you know what got them fresher legs as we erased a 28-3 deficit? Long sustained drives on the ground by the offense on a day Ben Tate would rush for 124 yards on 22 carries at 5.6 yards per carry (without any runs longer than 15 yards).
While I understand, there's different situations/packages for DBs and LBers - I never cozied up to sprinting our big guys on and off the field every other play. I can't imagine sprinting anyone with a 330-360 pound frame from the sideline to our own 2 yard line to face a double team involving Nick Mangold is as easy on the legs and oxygen as just remaining out there for the entire series/drive. Again, the film showed Danny Shelton excelled at staying on the field which seemed to be a big reason for the intrigue to draft him at #12 overall. He's a guy that gets better with the flow of the game just like a lot of players. A lot of times you'll see players that are tired get really sloppy with how high they come out of their stances/pad height. Asking the wide bodied DTs to do about a 30-40 yard wind sprint after they just sprinted off the field to hurry back into a 3 point stance (out of breath) to face a double team can lead to the mental fatigue conducive to sloppier pad heights. Much of this was unnecessary if they just opted to re-examine their substitution frequency/process IMO. I never noticed all the frequent mass substitutions up front helping us shed blockers easier, tackle better, or improve us at hurrying passers. I'm guessing neither did our opponents which partially explains why most of our opponents didn't want to no huddle us. Tiring out our big fellers with 2 wind sprints between 3 point stances was too helpful for them to turn down.
We never won any games by outsmarting our opponents in 2015 but we sure did outsmart ourselves a lot.
Aggies, you should have added this to the end of your edit: "Trust me - don't trust me!" In college, Danny weighed more than he did here and stayed on the field as an every down defender a high percentage of the time. He was a pretty popular draft prospect in here months before we drafted him.
In Cleveland, the coaching staff preferred to see their big defensive linemen sprinting from the sideline to the 3 point stance prior to the snap not too long after they just had to sprint off the field. They were constantly taking their big guys on and off the field, which seems like an exact opposite to getting fresh legs and a full tank of O2. I noticed this before Shelton even arrived when we beat TN in Nashville in 2014. The TV cameras don't always pick up the influx of players leaving and returning to the field in between plays. When you're up in the stands at the game - it jumps out at you. Do you know what got them fresher legs as we erased a 28-3 deficit? Long sustained drives on the ground by the offense on a day Ben Tate would rush for 124 yards on 22 carries at 5.6 yards per carry (without any runs longer than 15 yards).
While I understand, there's different situations/packages for DBs and LBers - I never cozied up to sprinting our big guys on and off the field every other play. I can't imagine sprinting anyone with a 330-360 pound frame from the sideline to our own 2 yard line to face a double team involving Nick Mangold is as easy on the legs and oxygen as just remaining out there for the entire series/drive. Again, the film showed Danny Shelton excelled at staying on the field which seemed to be a big reason for the intrigue to draft him at #12 overall. He's a guy that gets better with the flow of the game just like a lot of players. A lot of times you'll see players that are tired get really sloppy with how high they come out of their stances/pad height. Asking the wide bodied DTs to do about a 30-40 yard wind sprint after they just sprinted off the field to hurry back into a 3 point stance (out of breath) to face a double team can lead to the mental fatigue conducive to sloppier pad heights. Much of this was unnecessary if they just opted to re-examine their substitution frequency/process IMO. I never noticed all the frequent mass substitutions up front helping us shed blockers easier, tackle better, or improve us at hurrying passers. I'm guessing neither did our opponents which partially explains why most of our opponents didn't want to no huddle us. Tiring out our big fellers with 2 wind sprints between 3 point stances was too helpful for them to turn down.
We never won any games by outsmarting our opponents in 2015 but we sure did outsmart ourselves a lot.
Well said Tom. I bolded a very key & important part of your statement.
Shelton played over 80% of his college team's defensive downs & something like 44% as a Brown.
I'm in the stands every game and, at the Ravens' game on Nov 30, I decided to keep track of something. In the 1st quarter, EVERY defensive down had 3 guys run off & 3 run on for the Browns. Those idiots we called coaches were gassing their OWN D linemen! I maintain that we don't yet know what we have in many of our players due to what I consider the most poorly coached Browns' Team in my memory & that's a LONG time.
I'm very anxious to see what happens this year with more set & cohesive units. We'll win more than 3 games simply by not helping our opponents with dumbass fundamental decisions.
Only time will tell, but I still believe Shelton will be a beast!
Ag, we're usually on the same page, but not where Danny is concerned..."Two Down" will soon change.
Mike
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Still looks like a fat ass OL to me. Was nothing special last year. Over hyped. Hope he turns out, but I doubt it.
Still looks like a fat ass OL to me. Was nothing special last year. Over hyped. Hope he turns out, but I doubt it.
Take the prime of ur life...then multiply by 10. Then understand that he would still shit in your mouth as u lay unconscious......then urinate on all the other dirt napping family members of urs that were dumb enough to step in.
Basically I'm saying he would regulate ur family barbecue if y'all were some hill jack neighbors of his and couldn't stfu and let the grown man next door get some sleep
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Until he proves you right he's still an out of shape OL to me. I'd be happy to personally rename him Every Down Danny if he indeed is able to stay out there all 4 quarters with minimal breathers on the sideline. Until he unearns it though I'm sticking with Two Down Danny, a personal insult he can use for inspiration to prove he's more than that.
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Still looks like a fat ass OL to me. Was nothing special last year. Over hyped. Hope he turns out, but I doubt it.
Take the prime of ur life...then multiply by 10. Then understand that he would still shit in your mouth as u lay unconscious......then urinate on all the other dirt napping family members of urs that were dumb enough to step in.
Basically I'm saying he would regulate ur family barbecue if y'all were some hill jack neighbors of his and couldn't stfu and let the grown man next door get some sleep
Take the prime of ur life...then multiply by 10. Then understand that he would still shit in your mouth as u lay unconscious......then urinate on all the other dirt napping family members of urs that were dumb enough to step in.
Basically I'm saying he would regulate ur family barbecue if y'all were some hill jack neighbors of his and couldn't stfu and let the grown man next door get some sleep
Have a nice day sunshine!
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Take the prime of ur life...then multiply by 10. Then understand that he would still shit in your mouth as u lay unconscious......then urinate on all the other dirt napping family members of urs that were dumb enough to step in.
Basically I'm saying he would regulate ur family barbecue if y'all were some hill jack neighbors of his and couldn't stfu and let the grown man next door get some sleep
Have a nice day sunshine!
Have a nice day sunshine!
Sure thing sweet tits
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Can't think of the last time I saw any rookie Nose come in and be "special". Not even Wilfork. It's a position where it just doesn't happen.
Can't think of the last time I saw any rookie Nose come in and be "special". Not even Wilfork. It's a position where it just doesn't happen.
Can we agree that Phil Taylor looked a lot better as a rookie?
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Can we agree that Phil Taylor looked a lot better as a rookie?
No, we can't. Especially when Phil was asked to play a different role in a different defense.
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Can we agree that Phil Taylor looked a lot better as a rookie?
No, we can't. Especially when Phil was asked to play a different role in a different defense.
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I liked the pick and still feel that he can be productive under the right coaching.
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I wonder if it will be setting a record - with how many of the Browns draft picks
make the active roster, and play during the regular season.
They drafted football players, not prima donna "only want the money" picks.
Every one of the Browns's picks means business about football. They love the game.
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Can we agree that Phil Taylor looked a lot better as a rookie?
No, we can't. Especially when Phil was asked to play a different role in a different defense.
No, we can't. Especially when Phil was asked to play a different role in a different defense.
So Danny Shelton's rookie season was as good as Phil Taylor's? Oh wait the played in different systems so that is the rationalization for Danny's lack of effectiveness. Must be the system that screwed Gilbert.
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No, we can't. Especially when Phil was asked to play a different role in a different defense.
So Danny Shelton's rookie season was as good as Phil Taylor's? Oh wait the played in different systems so that is the rationalization for Danny's lack of effectiveness. Must be the system that screwed Gilbert.
So Danny Shelton's rookie season was as good as Phil Taylor's? Oh wait the played in different systems so that is the rationalization for Danny's lack of effectiveness. Must be the system that screwed Gilbert.
So not only do you clearly not comprehend the differences asked of Danny and Phil, you then attempt to equate that to CB.
Survey says......!! That's Retard.
edit: Take an interior player such as Aaron Donald, then have him play a 0-1 spot along a front now and watch his production drop like a rock. Must be because he sucks, huh? Coaching system and assingments clearly have no impact on player performance.
It's rare I call someone a dumbass, but you're treading in that water. I'm not by any means saying Danny had a great season, but I've yet to see ANYONE refute my point about a rookie being 'special' in that spot. So until someone does, pipe the fuck down.
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So Danny Shelton's rookie season was as good as Phil Taylor's? Oh wait the played in different systems so that is the rationalization for Danny's lack of effectiveness. Must be the system that screwed Gilbert.
So not only do you clearly not comprehend the differences asked of Danny and Phil, you then attempt to equate that to CB.
Survey says......!! That's Retard.
edit: Take an interior player such as Aaron Donald, then have him play a 0-1 spot along a front now and watch his production drop like a rock. Must be because he sucks, huh? Coaching system and assingments clearly have no impact on player performance.
It's rare I call someone a dumbass, but you're treading in that water. I'm not by any means saying Danny had a great season, but I've yet to see ANYONE refute my point about a rookie being 'special' in that spot. So until someone does, pipe the fuck down.
So not only do you clearly not comprehend the differences asked of Danny and Phil, you then attempt to equate that to CB.
Survey says......!! That's Retard.
edit: Take an interior player such as Aaron Donald, then have him play a 0-1 spot along a front now and watch his production drop like a rock. Must be because he sucks, huh? Coaching system and assingments clearly have no impact on player performance.
It's rare I call someone a dumbass, but you're treading in that water. I'm not by any means saying Danny had a great season, but I've yet to see ANYONE refute my point about a rookie being 'special' in that spot. So until someone does, pipe the fuck down.
Oh god no don't call me a bad name. No one said Phil Taylor was a Hall of Fame inductee after his rookie season. For anyone who watched both rookie campaigns it was clear that Taylor played better than Shelton. Regardless of system, or numbers for that matter, Shelton underperformed last season for his draft position. That isn't to say his career is over but he didn't play well last year regardless of how much we wanted him to.
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So not only do you clearly not comprehend the differences asked of Danny and Phil, you then attempt to equate that to CB.
Survey says......!! That's Retard.
edit: Take an interior player such as Aaron Donald, then have him play a 0-1 spot along a front now and watch his production drop like a rock. Must be because he sucks, huh? Coaching system and assingments clearly have no impact on player performance.
It's rare I call someone a dumbass, but you're treading in that water. I'm not by any means saying Danny had a great season, but I've yet to see ANYONE refute my point about a rookie being 'special' in that spot. So until someone does, pipe the fuck down.
Oh god no don't call me a bad name. No one said Phil Taylor was a Hall of Fame inductee after his rookie season. For anyone who watched both rookie campaigns it was clear that Taylor played better than Shelton. Regardless of system, or numbers for that matter, Shelton underperformed last season for his draft position. That isn't to say his career is over but he didn't play well last year regardless of how much we wanted him to.
it was clear that Taylor played better than Shelton. Regardless of system, or numbers for that matter
Shelton underperformed last season for his draft position. That isn't to say his career is over but he didn't play well last year regardless of how much we wanted him to.
I'm not sure why I bother responding, because until you realize that the bolded in inherent contradiction then its rather pointless carrying on conversation.
In your eyes, Danny under performed for his draft position. In every casual Browns fans eyes I'm sure they did. I expected the kid to come in and be what he was... a big kid who needs some time but showed he does belong in this league, flashed moments of potential greatness and at times was the space eater that turned ball carriers right to the backers. Maybe have a sack or two if he was kept in on 3rd downs but that wasn't a given.
Again and for the last time, please - point to me a rookie nose that came in and was 'special' or every bit as dominant as you expected. I have a feeling you'll be going back a long, long time.
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DT from the lions. Rodgers?
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it was clear that Taylor played better than Shelton. Regardless of system, or numbers for that matter
Shelton underperformed last season for his draft position. That isn't to say his career is over but he didn't play well last year regardless of how much we wanted him to.
I'm not sure why I bother responding, because until you realize that the bolded in inherent contradiction then its rather pointless carrying on conversation.
In your eyes, Danny under performed for his draft position. In every casual Browns fans eyes I'm sure they did. I expected the kid to come in and be what he was... a big kid who needs some time but showed he does belong in this league, flashed moments of potential greatness and at times was the space eater that turned ball carriers right to the backers. Maybe have a sack or two if he was kept in on 3rd downs but that wasn't a given.
Again and for the last time, please - point to me a rookie nose that came in and was 'special' or every bit as dominant as you expected. I have a feeling you'll be going back a long, long time.
I'm not sure why I bother responding, because until you realize that the bolded in inherent contradiction then its rather pointless carrying on conversation.
In your eyes, Danny under performed for his draft position. In every casual Browns fans eyes I'm sure they did. I expected the kid to come in and be what he was... a big kid who needs some time but showed he does belong in this league, flashed moments of potential greatness and at times was the space eater that turned ball carriers right to the backers. Maybe have a sack or two if he was kept in on 3rd downs but that wasn't a given.
Again and for the last time, please - point to me a rookie nose that came in and was 'special' or every bit as dominant as you expected. I have a feeling you'll be going back a long, long time.
It's not about being dominant. DT's taken in the top 15 last 5 drafts Danny Shelton 2015, Aaron Donald 2014, Star Lotulelei 2013, Michael Brockers & Fletcher Cox 2012, Marcell Dareus & Nick Fairley 2011.
So if you want to ignore the eye test which most of us "casual" fans say he didn't meet expectations and look at rookie stats here you go:
Shelton 19 tackles 17 assists 0 sacks
Donald 37 tackles 19 assists 9 sacks
Lotulelei 34 tackles 14 assists 3 sacks
Brockers 20 tackles 11 assists 4 sacks
Cox 32 tackles 7 assists 5.5 sacks
Dareus 32 tackles 11 assists 5.5 sacks
Fairley 9 tackles 6 assists 1 sack
BTW Phil Taylor taken 21st in 2011 37 tackles 22 assists 4 sacks
The 4-3 system lends themselves to creating more opportunities but Shelton couldn't even stay on the field for all 4 downs last season and Buffalo and Philly played 3-4. Again with more experience, better conditioning and a change in coaching he could have a long successful career but that doesn't mean last season was a success for him unless the bar was set low.
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I'm not sure why I bother responding, because until you realize that the bolded in inherent contradiction then its rather pointless carrying on conversation.
In your eyes, Danny under performed for his draft position. In every casual Browns fans eyes I'm sure they did. I expected the kid to come in and be what he was... a big kid who needs some time but showed he does belong in this league, flashed moments of potential greatness and at times was the space eater that turned ball carriers right to the backers. Maybe have a sack or two if he was kept in on 3rd downs but that wasn't a given.
Again and for the last time, please - point to me a rookie nose that came in and was 'special' or every bit as dominant as you expected. I have a feeling you'll be going back a long, long time.
It's not about being dominant. DT's taken in the top 15 last 5 drafts Danny Shelton 2015, Aaron Donald 2014, Star Lotulelei 2013, Michael Brockers & Fletcher Cox 2012, Marcell Dareus & Nick Fairley 2011.
So if you want to ignore the eye test which most of us "casual" fans say he didn't meet expectations and look at rookie stats here you go:
Shelton 19 tackles 17 assists 0 sacks
Donald 37 tackles 19 assists 9 sacks
Lotulelei 34 tackles 14 assists 3 sacks
Brockers 20 tackles 11 assists 4 sacks
Cox 32 tackles 7 assists 5.5 sacks
Dareus 32 tackles 11 assists 5.5 sacks
Fairley 9 tackles 6 assists 1 sack
BTW Phil Taylor taken 21st in 2011 37 tackles 22 assists 4 sacks
The 4-3 system lends themselves to creating more opportunities but Shelton couldn't even stay on the field for all 4 downs last season and Buffalo and Philly played 3-4. Again with more experience, better conditioning and a change in coaching he could have a long successful career but that doesn't mean last season was a success for him unless the bar was set low.
It's not about being dominant. DT's taken in the top 15 last 5 drafts Danny Shelton 2015, Aaron Donald 2014, Star Lotulelei 2013, Michael Brockers & Fletcher Cox 2012, Marcell Dareus & Nick Fairley 2011.
So if you want to ignore the eye test which most of us "casual" fans say he didn't meet expectations and look at rookie stats here you go:
Shelton 19 tackles 17 assists 0 sacks
Donald 37 tackles 19 assists 9 sacks
Lotulelei 34 tackles 14 assists 3 sacks
Brockers 20 tackles 11 assists 4 sacks
Cox 32 tackles 7 assists 5.5 sacks
Dareus 32 tackles 11 assists 5.5 sacks
Fairley 9 tackles 6 assists 1 sack
BTW Phil Taylor taken 21st in 2011 37 tackles 22 assists 4 sacks
The 4-3 system lends themselves to creating more opportunities but Shelton couldn't even stay on the field for all 4 downs last season and Buffalo and Philly played 3-4. Again with more experience, better conditioning and a change in coaching he could have a long successful career but that doesn't mean last season was a success for him unless the bar was set low.
You've just killed your entire argument and funny enough, I mentioned Aaron Donald just a couple of posts up and you sure as shit have him as your first player in your stats as if he plays anything resembling the same assignments.
You also compare players in their 2nd year and beyond, none of them play a nose in the traditional sense aside from Dareus who got a few looks there in his rookie season, they've been under Jauron and 1 gap philosophy until Rexy came along. While having Mario Williams, Kyle Williams and Jerry Hughes.
Of the players you listed, all of them have talent around them in the front 7. You wouldn't take that into consideration I'm sure, honestly it looks as if you went off sack numbers.
Philly was/is the only team that runs a '34' in a sense and Fletcher is usually their pusher at the end spot, he was not drafted with the thinking that the Iggles first and foremost need to stop interior rushes.
I'm out of this conversation, spent too much time on it as is.
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