***Official Browns @ Eagles Game Day Thread***
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Guys, I just hate this crap. I HATE IT.
In a previous post I made last week, I stated that we would lose this game because "It just makes too much sense." The Browns losing to the QB that "wasn't good enough" and wouldn't be "in the top 20" that we could've drafted made too much sense. It would become a fantastic story line, and one that would make the sporting world laugh at us hysterically. Boy, was I right. Not only did we lose, but we lost in glorious fashion. Our QB looked terrible. Even the two long balls were awful. Pryor pushed off, and Coleman's ball was thrown into triple coverage. Everyone in the universe knew that we'd kick a FG after Coleman's catch, and we should've kicked a FG after Pryor's but got saved by pass interference.
Carson Wentz will have his fair share of struggles this year, as virtually all rookies do. But here's the thing, if Wentz turns into viable starting QB, or god forbid a SUPERSTAR, then our front office is doomed. I'm telling you now, if we blew the chance at getting a franchise QB, our management team is gone. Now, this is ONE GAME, and nobody is anointing Wentz the next Big Ben. But here's what I can tell you: I've never, and I mean NEVER heard of a rookie QB missing the last 3 preseason games, not being the starter in OTA's or minicamp, practicing ONE WEEK before the start of the season, and winning the first game.
RG III was awful and I hate it. Yes, it's week 1, but let's remember this: NOBODY ELSE WANTED HIM as a starter. Hue Jackson wants everyone to trust him, but why should they? He drafted Cody Kessler. Cody freaking Kessler. And while nobody is calling him a bust, I think it's safe to say that nobody is predicting him to EVER be "the man" for us.
We had no first downs in the first quarter. I'm all excited about football, and those assholes come out looking like pieces of shit. If we're going to absolutely suck, why not play Kessler? What do we have to lose? Let's see if he has what it takes! What do we gain by playing RG III? Are we hoping that he magically turns into a drop back QB? That he magically develops an internal clock?
RG III missed Hawkins in the end zone for a TOUCHDOWN. You can't miss those throws. Jesus man. What's worse? It's pretty much the same throw that Wentz made for TD's. He made it TWICE.
Yeah, I knew we'd be bad this year. I really did. But fuck this team. Screw them for a fake punt that everyone is laughing at. Screw them for dropping four passes. Screw them for SNAPPING THE BALL TO NIGERIA.
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I'm getting very impatient, getting very sick of building for the future instead of building for now.
OK, fine, I get that...
The Browns are more than just 1 QB away. The Browns need good offensive and defensive linemen, a good secondary (Tramon Williams can't keep up with anyone anymore and Haden is not getting any younger), and some linebackers that can actually pressure a QB.
...which means it's going to take a couple of years to turn it around. There's no real difference between 'building for the future' and 'building for now' apart from maybe one or two older players who are currently slightly better taking reps away from younger players who will probably be better at the end of the season. See Campbell/Whitner, Schobert/Kruger etc.
Right, what I"m saying to all of the people who are lamenting the fact we didn't get Wentz, is that drafting Wentz would not have made a difference on this team. I get why the FO traded down for more picks in this year's draft. I think the guys they drafted will turn out OK, didn't see any glaring busts yet but it's only 1 game. I want to see some progress this year once all of these rookies get more accustomed to the NFL, meaning I want to see wins now. Not next year, not 2-3 years down the road when we fire this coach and start from scratch again, but now. It would be nice to win more than 4 games a season.
Right, what I"m saying to all of the people who are lamenting the fact we didn't get Wentz, is that drafting Wentz would not have made a difference on this team. I get why the FO traded down for more picks in this year's draft. I think the guys they drafted will turn out OK, didn't see any glaring busts yet but it's only 1 game. I want to see some progress this year once all of these rookies get more accustomed to the NFL, meaning I want to see wins now. Not next year, not 2-3 years down the road when we fire this coach and start from scratch again, but now. It would be nice to win more than 4 games a season.
Yep it would be nice to see wins sooner rather than later, but I don't think a lot of wins are coming our way this season. I agree, between coleman, ogbah and nassib we have three good looking top draft picks that are already starters and should be for years to come. Kindred also looks good, and Schobert is already starting. So that's 5 players with important roles as rookies and not looking too shabby. We get another similar amount of solid starters from next year's draft and we are suddenly looking very competitive.
There's a long way to go but I feel good about this front office. Then again, I did about ray farmer and mike pettine, so who knows.
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Optimism:
Scooby will start over Davis next year
Pryor will be a solid #3 all year long
Rookies made the team because talent on the Browns roster simply doesn't exist yet
We'll still be #1 or #2 in next year's draft no matter what happens
Schobert and Ogbah will both be solid, as will Orchard who is set to be a starter-level injury backup for us -- until OLB is improved in the draft, hopefully next year as well
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my point is these rebuilds shouldn't take this long. i mean 1999? there has to be some meat on the bone from other regimes where the new regime just doesn't throw it all out and then start from scratch. amazing how the good teams might be thin one year at a position, draft or acquire and then they are back on top. yet the browns franchise just can't figure it out?
my point is these rebuilds shouldn't take this long. i mean 1999? there has to be some meat on the bone from other regimes where the new regime just doesn't throw it all out and then start from scratch. amazing how the good teams might be thin one year at a position, draft or acquire and then they are back on top. yet the browns franchise just can't figure it out?
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donnie whalberg? really?
band of brothers.
maurice starr promoted and managed those guys and new edition when i was at ft. devens. my best friends sister used to go out with him. she also used to blow me in my celica gts.
small world.
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Here's what I think. Getting a qb the last draft with the top pick, would not have
helped this team like the trade down did.
Personally, I still would have drafted Wentz.... but the guys they got from trading down help the
team immensely.
Here's why - the Browns all these years, started off on the wrong foot, with no youth foundation.
The Browns have kept adding veterans, and made pizzpoor choices of draft picks.
The foundation of the team has been weak for years. You keep adding some veterans, and poor draft picks...
and you still have a crap foundation.
Like a house. You can add all the fancy building up top, but if the foundation is bad, it sinks one way, breaks another,
and the whole house sucks.
Once, JUST THIS ONCE, it was time to fix the foundation. And not even Wentz would be fixing it.
They had to rebuild the foundation. Then, hopefully, they can start building a winning house that will
last over the years, just adding a piece here, a piece there.
But pieces here and there can't win by themselves. "A house built on weak and shifting sands cannot stand".
That's why all that money spent on defense still didn't work. Mack wanted out, I assume they wanted out because
it was just hopeless. The foundation (the overal talent level) never gets fixed. It's been a disaster for so long, either
you wait for five drafts, or you trade down and get a lot of problems fixed in one draft. WR...LB...DL...
I see a different team now, for the first time. Just because it hasn't taken off yet... ONE GAME?
The two areas that concern me are the secondary, and qb. RGIII may turn out to be a star. Or, he just doesn't have
it as far as seeing the field and making reads fast enough. He played like CRAP the first game. We'll see if that
continues. If it does, Hue may as well admit later that McCown needs to take over the reins, and draft a qb
next draft.
But the Browns fought like hell in that game. They mean business. I used to see "just going through the motions who cares"...
Josh Cribbs talked a few years ago, about the Browns having undisciplined,
selfish, lazy players that were bringing down the guys who left it all on the field and desperately wanted to win because
they love the game. And THAT was before manziel and gilbert.
The criteria for drafting in the past ignored work ethic, character, intelligence/football IQ/instincts and*love for the game*. If you added this criteria,
you would NEVER have drafted jm, gilbert, gordon, richardson.... the list is long.
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Here's what I think. Getting a qb the last draft with the top pick, would not have
helped this team like the trade down did.
Personally, I still would have drafted Wentz.... but the guys they got from trading down help the
team immensely.
Here's why - the Browns all these years, started off on the wrong foot, with no youth foundation.
The Browns have kept adding veterans, and made pizzpoor choices of draft picks.
The foundation of the team has been weak for years. You keep adding some veterans, and poor draft picks...
and you still have a crap foundation.
Like a house. You can add all the fancy building up top, but if the foundation is bad, it sinks one way, breaks another,
and the whole house sucks.
Once, JUST THIS ONCE, it was time to fix the foundation. And not even Wentz would be fixing it.
They had to rebuild the foundation. Then, hopefully, they can start building a winning house that will
last over the years, just adding a piece here, a piece there.
But pieces here and there can't win by themselves. "A house built on weak and shifting sands cannot stand".
That's why all that money spent on defense still didn't work. Mack wanted out, I assume they wanted out because
it was just hopeless. The foundation (the overal talent level) never gets fixed. It's been a disaster for so long, either
you wait for five drafts, or you trade down and get a lot of problems fixed in one draft. WR...LB...DL...
I see a different team now, for the first time. Just because it hasn't taken off yet... ONE GAME?
The two areas that concern me are the secondary, and qb. RGIII may turn out to be a star. Or, he just doesn't have
it as far as seeing the field and making reads fast enough. He played like CRAP the first game. We'll see if that
continues. If it does, Hue may as well admit later that McCown needs to take over the reins, and draft a qb
next draft.
But the Browns fought like hell in that game. They mean business. I used to see "just going through the motions who cares"...
Josh Cribbs talked a few years ago, about the Browns having undisciplined,
selfish, lazy players that were bringing down the guys who left it all on the field and desperately wanted to win because
they love the game. And THAT was before manziel and gilbert.
The criteria for drafting in the past ignored work ethic, character, intelligence/football IQ/instincts and*love for the game*. If you added this criteria,
you would NEVER have drafted jm, gilbert, gordon, richardson.... the list is long.
Here's what I think. Getting a qb the last draft with the top pick, would not have
helped this team like the trade down did.
Personally, I still would have drafted Wentz.... but the guys they got from trading down help the
team immensely.
Here's why - the Browns all these years, started off on the wrong foot, with no youth foundation.
The Browns have kept adding veterans, and made pizzpoor choices of draft picks.
The foundation of the team has been weak for years. You keep adding some veterans, and poor draft picks...
and you still have a crap foundation.
Like a house. You can add all the fancy building up top, but if the foundation is bad, it sinks one way, breaks another,
and the whole house sucks.
Once, JUST THIS ONCE, it was time to fix the foundation. And not even Wentz would be fixing it.
They had to rebuild the foundation. Then, hopefully, they can start building a winning house that will
last over the years, just adding a piece here, a piece there.
But pieces here and there can't win by themselves. "A house built on weak and shifting sands cannot stand".
That's why all that money spent on defense still didn't work. Mack wanted out, I assume they wanted out because
it was just hopeless. The foundation (the overal talent level) never gets fixed. It's been a disaster for so long, either
you wait for five drafts, or you trade down and get a lot of problems fixed in one draft. WR...LB...DL...
I see a different team now, for the first time. Just because it hasn't taken off yet... ONE GAME?
The two areas that concern me are the secondary, and qb. RGIII may turn out to be a star. Or, he just doesn't have
it as far as seeing the field and making reads fast enough. He played like CRAP the first game. We'll see if that
continues. If it does, Hue may as well admit later that McCown needs to take over the reins, and draft a qb
next draft.
But the Browns fought like hell in that game. They mean business. I used to see "just going through the motions who cares"...
Josh Cribbs talked a few years ago, about the Browns having undisciplined,
selfish, lazy players that were bringing down the guys who left it all on the field and desperately wanted to win because
they love the game. And THAT was before manziel and gilbert.
The criteria for drafting in the past ignored work ethic, character, intelligence/football IQ/instincts and*love for the game*. If you added this criteria,
you would NEVER have drafted jm, gilbert, gordon, richardson.... the list is long.
Cal.. just stop man.. you and 20 people say the same damn thing.. year in.. year out.. This team is garbage.. Im tired of rebuilding.. get a fucking QB for christ sakes and move on..
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The overreactions here are priceless to read. ?
I saw a youngteam that had good moments and bad. Rg made alot of good throws that were dropped and his int was off a tip. No major injuries and some bright spots.
Off with his head!!!!!!
Rg made alot of good throws that were dropped and his int was off a tip.
You really need to find a cutdown of all RG's throws and watch it. He was late on virtually every one... especially those over the middle which included the tipped INT which was thrown almost a yard behind his WR.
He's in serious need of a processor upgrade.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Rg made alot of good throws that were dropped and his int was off a tip.
You really need to find a cutdown of all RG's throws and watch it. He was late on virtually every one... especially those over the middle which included the tipped INT which was thrown almost a yard behind his WR.
He's in serious need of a processor upgrade.
You really need to find a cutdown of all RG's throws and watch it. He was late on virtually every one... especially those over the middle which included the tipped INT which was thrown almost a yard behind his WR.
He's in serious need of a processor upgrade.
I was really hoping to see something from him, leading a receiver down the field, a little touch here and there, but sadly nope. The two big plays were because 1) Pryor is a big dude (and got away with a little OPI that'll be called in 5 years) and 2) none of the eagles DBs covering coleman actually made a play on the ball. He overthrew Hawkins on a TD, on a 4th down, and the interception is squarely on him - it was so far behind coleman, that the DB coleman had a yard on reached back his hand to tip it.
Still, it's just one game and it's not like we have Tom Brady waiting in the wings. Hopefully more time to develop some rhythm with his receivers will do the world of good.
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I honestly just don't understand what you guys expected this year. Like it or not, the regime has a plan. That plan included sucking nuts this year, churning the roster with young draft players and seeing who will stick. It's going to be the same thing next year as well to some degree. I'm not going to sound like that broken record guy, but I saw the Panthers do this exact same thing before getting Cam Newton.
The team last year was awful. We purged the awful from the squad and replaced it with young guys. In case you didn't realize it, young guys aren't going to be world beaters week one. For you guys complaining about Coleman, am I the only guy who saw him flag down a poorly thrown ball and make a play in triple coverage? Also, the defense was on the field for almost 40 minutes today. ANY defense who gets thrown out there for that long is going to give up yards.
The biggest thing to take away from this game is we have a lot of young guys who have the potential to get better. RG3 as I noted earlier in this thread looks scared, skittish, w/e you wanna say out there which bodes badly for his future. Today is another example of the fact he just can't get out of his own way too. One game is too soon to shake it all up of course, but idk I think the dude has just hit that wall. I don't even know how to describe it-it just seems like he's playing not to get hurt which you can't do at that position.
Relax people-we knew the Browns were gonna be bottom feeders even if you didn't want to admit it publicly.
- I honestly just don't understand what you guys expected this year. Like it or not, the regime has a plan. That plan included sucking nuts this year, churning the roster with young draft players and seeing who will stick. It's going to be the same thing next year as well to some degree.
- There it is... "the plan". The difference next year is that some players will have stuck.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
3. Also any defense out there that long is giving up a lot of first downs... just sayin'...
Yep - even if our O sucks, if we force them to go three-and-out in return, the D doesn't stay on the field all the time.
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don't know about the assignments but was there no punter on that play. i kinda thought maybe i lost my down count...thought it may have been 3rd down...guess not. i think even gumball and the analyst where lost for word there for a while...wonder what they were saying to each other during commercial break...errrrrrr let me answer that...they said to each other...same ofd fucking dumbass browns and i hope the network does not have us do another browns game... puhleeeeeease....
Honestly.. STFU. Take a year off. Watch the rewind. Haden made plays.Our OL pass protection did not give up a sack till 3rd Quarter adjustments not matched by us. Than with time & score, both sides of the ball up front were gassed..Some hope for better around here but, you have not 1 post of a real fan..Get off Our Lawn!!
poor little gumhead...he thought that fake punt was a great call...heheheheee...fucking moron thinks our oline is good...what a football moron .....
poor little gumhead...he thought that fake punt was a great call...heheheheee...fucking moron thinks our oline is good...what a football moron .....
Don't worry about gumby... he knows football and his analyses show it. Whereas all you show is your ass...
Vintage Jim Schwartz. He might be one of the very best in the league at creating pressure with four man fronts and getting creative with as little blitzing as possible.
He was very ready for a lot of the tells on our formations, personnel groupings and patterns. To the point where defenders early on are just watching RG3's eyes and falling off assignments very early.
RG's stare downs were almost as epic as his lack of resolve in his throws. He seemed to me to be "aiming" the ball all day... and that is a sign of uncertainty.
I love Schwartz's move of Connor Barwin to DE. His speed sack around JoeT looked to be textbook.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
- I honestly just don't understand what you guys expected this year. Like it or not, the regime has a plan. That plan included sucking nuts this year, churning the roster with young draft players and seeing who will stick. It's going to be the same thing next year as well to some degree.
- There it is... "the plan". The difference next year is that some players will have stuck.
- There it is... "the plan". The difference next year is that some players will have stuck.
- I saw him field that "punt"... only thing missing was the fair catch...
- Also any defense out there that long is giving up a lot of first downs... just sayin'...
- There are actually quite a few that did not know this... publicly or privately. Easy to spot them as most are sporting orange neck braces...
2. I still give Coleman credit for playing the ball well. I get it, it's not going to be on a highlight reel but it's a lot better than what we've seen from Browns WR's the past few years.
3. True, but I do think it's a "little column A, little column B" argument. They were getting gashed, but it's easier to get gashed when you are tired from being on the field 3/4 of the game. Don't get me wrong, the defense isn't good at all. But I'd like to see what the damage looks like if the Browns could at least get that to close to even in terms of time on the field.
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Ups and Downs. Plenty of downs. Let's see:
Rough first quarter. No pressure on the rookie QB, and pass D non existent. Down
Good response and adjustments in the second quarter from the D. Up
A couple of big plays on O in that second quarter. Up.
Still went in at the half down 13-7. Down.
Came out quite strong after the half with a good drive, putting points on the board, then got the stop immediately and got the ball back. We looked like a mediocre football team... Biggest Up.
Cam Erving happened. Down.
Our D played worse and worse afterwards. Down
Our O couldn't get anything going. Down
We were stuck with poor field position all day, with our O going 3 and out, or 5 and out, and our D not doing the same to them. Down
Our run game actually wasn't horrible - 15 rushes from Duke and Crow for 84 yards, (5.6 ypc), and RG3 picked up good yards on the ground. Up
Our passing game was horrible. Two big plays to Pryor and Coleman, combined for 102 yards. Outside of that, RG3 was 10-24, for 88 yards. Biggest down
Carl Nassib and Ogbah showed up, look like they will be contributors. Up
Our DL didn't look much, and we let them get off some big runs, particularly Barner. Down
Our pass D was horrible. Literally abysmal. We will get absolutely shredded, and that's *if* Haden can stay healthy. If not, look out for opposition offenses not even having to take advantage of our leaky run D. Down.
No stupid penalties - 12 men on the field, illegal formation etc. Well, one, Pryor lining up 6 inches too far forward - I'll let him off that if he learns from it. Up
Tackling. Or rather, lack of. A lot of times we were in position to make a tackle (up!) but didn't wrap up. It looks like we have about 4 players who can tackle properly and they're DBs and ILBs. Down
It's going to be a long season, folks. Our pass D is starting off bad, outside of about 20 minutes (second quarter and early third). Our pas O is worse at the moment. Our run game is ok, actually, but that won't last if we can't get something going through the air.
I *hope* that by about game 6 or 7, we start to actually look like a team that has what it takes to play in this league, otherwise we'll see a lot of trading back in next year's draft and picking up a lot more players.
- Our run game actually wasn't horrible - 15 rushes from Duke and Crow for 84 yards, (5.6 ypc), and RG3 picked up good yards on the ground. Up
- I *hope* that by about game 6 or 7, we start to actually look like a team that has what it takes to play in this league, otherwise we'll see a lot of trading back in next year's draft and picking up a lot more players.
- Yeah... it was horrible. Crow got 40 of his yards on 3 carries in the last minute of the game. So in non-garbage time we had 12 rushes for 44 yds.
- And that's about the right time frame. Both Gordon and Armonty should be settled in by then, some of the shine should be off the rookies.
At one time they were Lawson stores.....back in the days of real Cleveland Browns football and redcap beer.
lol... I worked at a Lawson's at Pearl and York intersection... and later for one on State Road. I miss their French Onion Chip Dip...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
- Yeah... it was horrible. Crow got 40 of his yards on 3 carries in the last minute of the game. So in non-garbage time we had 12 rushes for 44 yds.
12 runs for 44 yards is still a better YPC than Ryan 'had a good day' Matthews managed. Not outstanding, but not horrible, and that's all I said.
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- There it is... "the plan". The difference next year is that some players will have stuck.
- I saw him field that "punt"... only thing missing was the fair catch...
- Also any defense out there that long is giving up a lot of first downs... just sayin'...
- There are actually quite a few that did not know this... publicly or privately. Easy to spot them as most are sporting orange neck braces...
2. I still give Coleman credit for playing the ball well. I get it, it's not going to be on a highlight reel but it's a lot better than what we've seen from Browns WR's the past few years.
3. True, but I do think it's a "little column A, little column B" argument. They were getting gashed, but it's easier to get gashed when you are tired from being on the field 3/4 of the game. Don't get me wrong, the defense isn't good at all. But I'd like to see what the damage looks like if the Browns could at least get that to close to even in terms of time on the field.
2. I still give Coleman credit for playing the ball well. I get it, it's not going to be on a highlight reel but it's a lot better than what we've seen from Browns WR's the past few years.
3. True, but I do think it's a "little column A, little column B" argument. They were getting gashed, but it's easier to get gashed when you are tired from being on the field 3/4 of the game. Don't get me wrong, the defense isn't good at all. But I'd like to see what the damage looks like if the Browns could at least get that to close to even in terms of time on the field.
Agree... more a comment on the throw (if you can call it that) than the catch.
Also agree... just pointing out that there was another significant factor...
Browns "drives" were:
1. 3 and out / 2. 3 and out / 3. 4 and out (counting the fake punt) / 4. 9 and TD / 5. 7 and INT / 6. 4 and Halftime
7. 4 and FG / 8. 1 and Safety / 9. 5 and out / 10. 3 and out/ 11. 3 and out / 12. 3 and out / 13. 3 and end of game
Eagles drives were:
1. 10 and TD / 2. 7 and out / 3. 5 and missed FG / 4. 4 and FG / 5. 3 and out / 6. 10 and FG
7. 7 and out / 8. 9 and TD / 9. 6 and out / 10. 4 and out / 11. 10 and out / 12. 6 and TD
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
poor little gumhead...he thought that fake punt was a great call...heheheheee...fucking moron thinks our oline is good...what a football moron .....
Don't worry about gumby... he knows football and his analyses show it. Whereas all you show is your ass...
Vintage Jim Schwartz. He might be one of the very best in the league at creating pressure with four man fronts and getting creative with as little blitzing as possible.
He was very ready for a lot of the tells on our formations, personnel groupings and patterns. To the point where defenders early on are just watching RG3's eyes and falling off assignments very early.
RG's stare downs were almost as epic as his lack of resolve in his throws. He seemed to me to be "aiming" the ball all day... and that is a sign of uncertainty.
I love Schwartz's move of Connor Barwin to DE. His speed sack around JoeT looked to be textbook.
Don't worry about gumby... he knows football and his analyses show it. Whereas all you show is your ass...
RG's stare downs were almost as epic as his lack of resolve in his throws. He seemed to me to be "aiming" the ball all day... and that is a sign of uncertainty.
I love Schwartz's move of Connor Barwin to DE. His speed sack around JoeT looked to be textbook.
Watched all of Roberts throws this morning. Aiming is exactly right. Especially on the double under that got Hawk open.
The killer to me was locking onto his target pre snap and missing a couple wide open reads.
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