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Who takes the fall?

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  • sydS syd

    @tour2ma said:

    No need to warn war... he's not an idiot.

    And, yes, I just called you an idiot. In under 200 posts you managed to trigger one of the two or three tripwires here that will get you a warning.

    I'm not sure you have the temperament to make it to 500, but the jury is still out.

    ha aha aha wow you sure do make it easy

    @syd said:

    ha aha aha wow you sure do make it easy

    ... easy to?

    Complete the thought first... then hit "Post"...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • pretty easy to get under your skin

    also my origanal post was meant for zombo he got it sent me a message and now it's over,but you had to make it all personnel and start name calling like your friend wargagraw

  • oh, syd.... syd... syd... Not only are you not under my skin, you are not even a pimple on my ass.

    Ask around... folks here know what it looks like when someone gets under my skin.

    Hint: It does not look like the above.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    sydS 1 Reply

  • So I'll presume anyone here that can say they are able to coach better is either a former or active coach at any level of position group for that matter...?

    No? Nobody?

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    So coaches cannot transfer their experience into the talented? I call bullshit...

    @tour2ma said:

    So coaches cannot transfer their experience into the talented? I call bullshit...

    To a degree. But if you said in the spring "I'll give you Myles Garrett in the draft and you can give him a playbook but you're not allowed to coach him. Ever. OR I'll give you Joe 3 star 2nd team All-PAC 12 DE who is an ok player with about a 5th round grade and you can coach him all you want," I think I know where most coaches are going.

    This is the NFL. These guys have the general ideas on technique. You have nuance to learn, but with bad talent, nuance is just lipstick on a pig.

    As Alabama strength coach Scott Cochran says: "These guys are already Ferraris. We just put spinners on them."

    Urban Meyer's also said something like "I'm always amused when guys brag on themselves like it's not their players that do all the work. Guy'/ bragging about his zone scheme. Yeah, lemme give you a bunch of s*** players and let's see how good your zone scheme looks then."

    And those are college coaches. Even more true in the NFL.

  • War the talent parity in the nfl isn't anywhere near as unbalanced as it is in college.

    Think about the math involved 1696 slots. About 400 rookies brought in from draft and udfa. More than 13000 college players in the fbs most will never play pro ball.

    Everybody runs good times, Everybody is a top athlete, Everybody is physically superior. They've all been doing this for longer than they have been alive. Pure College Talent doesn't mean SHIT in the nfl without work ethic and character to back it up. Cameron Wake was undrafted who was projected at round 5. Vs Courtney Brown. I think i'll take the kid that was COACHABLE.

    flyingfooldougF 1 Reply

  • Work ethic and character factor into talent for the sake of this discussion.

  • hoortaH hoorta

    @cainedesoulis said:

    so hypothetically we go 0-20 losing all 4 preseason games and all 16 regular season games? Who stays? Who goes?

    personally i think this is an unlikely but possible scenario. I got us winning 4 down the stretch but that's neither here nor there.

    I can see us letting go some odds and ends on the coaching staff (horton/hamilton/saunders) maybe a front office figure(berry/sashi/kovash).

    I highly doubt jackson will go but it's possible after such an occurance and more importantly if there is another high profile coach available.

    Or hey does no one get fired at all? Maybe we actually hire someone? A true OC prehaps? More Front office personnel?

    I'm not on the 0-16 train anymore. Had the Dolphins beat. Everyone stays, at least through next year.

    @hoorta said:

    I'm not on the 0-16 train anymore. Had the Dolphins beat. Everyone stays, at least through next year.

    Exactly. I can't find any egregious mistakes and I don't see a scapegoat. I think we all realized we were in for a rocky road and this is what we're getting. Every game has had some exciting parts and every game, for the most part, has been within reach.

    If anything we missed on Carson Wentz but remember the first guy taking Jared Goff is nothing to write home about. I never liked RG3 but at one time he could have been Elite. Unfortunately he never got back to form. When this new bunch of kids finally gets there feet underneath them I think they will show marked improvement over the next year or two.

    The organization has never seemed to be the cluster fuck it was with Mike Pettine and Ray Farmer at odds with each other.

    WSS

    www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
    B 1 Reply
  • C CaineDeSoulis

    War the talent parity in the nfl isn't anywhere near as unbalanced as it is in college.

    Think about the math involved 1696 slots. About 400 rookies brought in from draft and udfa. More than 13000 college players in the fbs most will never play pro ball.

    Everybody runs good times, Everybody is a top athlete, Everybody is physically superior. They've all been doing this for longer than they have been alive. Pure College Talent doesn't mean SHIT in the nfl without work ethic and character to back it up. Cameron Wake was undrafted who was projected at round 5. Vs Courtney Brown. I think i'll take the kid that was COACHABLE.

    @cainedesoulis said:

    War the talent parity in the nfl isn't anywhere near as unbalanced as it is in college.

    Think about the math involved 1696 slots. About 400 rookies brought in from draft and udfa. More than 13000 college players in the fbs most will never play pro ball.

    Everybody runs good times, Everybody is a top athlete, Everybody is physically superior. They've all been doing this for longer than they have been alive. Pure College Talent doesn't mean SHIT in the nfl without work ethic and character to back it up. Cameron Wake was undrafted who was projected at round 5. Vs Courtney Brown. I think i'll take the kid that was COACHABLE.

    Right on brother! It's truly a coaches league.

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    So are all Asst. Coaches created equal or do we already have the best at every position?

    @tour2ma said:

    So are all Asst. Coaches created equal or do we already have the best at every position?

    I've got no idea how to measure that.. all we can do is look at their prior stops and see how roughly the same players performed before/after that coach was there.

    PFF grades only measure the final result which is ultimately a sum of the two - this isn't Madden where you (could? I haven't played Madden in years) know the breakdown of what 90 game rating was "coach driven" and what was "player improvement from the prior baseline regardless of coach".

    Also within the above sum : We'd need to benchmark the baseline coach driven and the baseline player improvement to see who is improving at an average level [eg, "set expectations"] and who is outperforming the league.

    The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    oh, syd.... syd... syd... Not only are you not under my skin, you are not even a pimple on my ass.

    Ask around... folks here know what it looks like when someone gets under my skin.

    Hint: It does not look like the above.

    @tour2ma said:

    oh, syd.... syd... syd... Not only are you not under my skin, you are not even a pimple on my ass.

    Ask around... folks here know what it looks like when someone gets under my skin.

    Hint: It does not look like the above.

    ya I have checked around and have determined that you are not worth my time wasting a post on you

    so carry on and enjoy your circle jerks with wargago

  • Getting pretty close guys only 9 more to go. Horton on the block? Is it hue? Is this why the raiders let him go? If we go 0-20 what's the chances of us signing any free agent talent? Better yet what are the chances Draft Picks start declining to play for us?

    The GipperT 1 Reply

  • Can not fire hue Jackson. That is all.

    Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind...
  • C CaineDeSoulis

    Getting pretty close guys only 9 more to go. Horton on the block? Is it hue? Is this why the raiders let him go? If we go 0-20 what's the chances of us signing any free agent talent? Better yet what are the chances Draft Picks start declining to play for us?

    @cainedesoulis said:

    Getting pretty close guys only 9 more to go. Horton on the block? Is it hue? Is this why the raiders let him go? If we go 0-20 what's the chances of us signing any free agent talent? Better yet what are the chances Draft Picks start declining to play for us?

    Horton should be hearing "Who....you gonna coach for next year" It may not be in Cleveland.

    The defense has been bad......both talent wise and coaching wise.

  • The GipperT The Gipper

    @cainedesoulis said:

    Getting pretty close guys only 9 more to go. Horton on the block? Is it hue? Is this why the raiders let him go? If we go 0-20 what's the chances of us signing any free agent talent? Better yet what are the chances Draft Picks start declining to play for us?

    Horton should be hearing "Who....you gonna coach for next year" It may not be in Cleveland.

    The defense has been bad......both talent wise and coaching wise.

    @the-gipper said:

    Horton should be hearing "Who....you gonna coach for next year" It may not be in Cleveland.

    The defense has been bad......both talent wise and coaching wise.

    I know we've axed a few head coaches mid season and did the interim thing. When was the last OC or DC that got canned midseason? Fire Horton so he can spend the holidays in the Crib? Or make him suffer the season too?
  • flyingfooldougF flyingfooldoug

    @the-gipper said:

    Horton should be hearing "Who....you gonna coach for next year" It may not be in Cleveland.

    The defense has been bad......both talent wise and coaching wise.

    I know we've axed a few head coaches mid season and did the interim thing. When was the last OC or DC that got canned midseason? Fire Horton so he can spend the holidays in the Crib? Or make him suffer the season too?

    @flyingfooldoug said:

    I know we've axed a few head coaches mid season and did the interim thing. When was the last OC or DC that got canned midseason? Fire Horton so he can spend the holidays in the Crib? Or make him suffer the season too?

    No. Keep him here.....let him suffer through this mess....partially of his own making.

  • One last time...

    Ain't no fall going to be taken.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    B 1 Reply

  • Stop trying to run coaches off.

  • W Westside Steve

    @hoorta said:

    I'm not on the 0-16 train anymore. Had the Dolphins beat. Everyone stays, at least through next year.

    Exactly. I can't find any egregious mistakes and I don't see a scapegoat. I think we all realized we were in for a rocky road and this is what we're getting. Every game has had some exciting parts and every game, for the most part, has been within reach.

    If anything we missed on Carson Wentz but remember the first guy taking Jared Goff is nothing to write home about. I never liked RG3 but at one time he could have been Elite. Unfortunately he never got back to form. When this new bunch of kids finally gets there feet underneath them I think they will show marked improvement over the next year or two.

    The organization has never seemed to be the cluster fuck it was with Mike Pettine and Ray Farmer at odds with each other.

    WSS

    @westside-steve said:

    Exactly. I can't find any egregious mistakes and I don't see a scapegoat. I think we all realized we were in for a rocky road and this is what we're getting. Every game has had some exciting parts and every game, for the most part, has been within reach.

    If anything we missed on Carson Wentz but remember the first guy taking Jared Goff is nothing to write home about. I never liked RG3 but at one time he could have been Elite. Unfortunately he never got back to form. When this new bunch of kids finally gets there feet underneath them I think they will show marked improvement over the next year or two.

    The organization has never seemed to be the cluster fuck it was with Mike Pettine and Ray Farmer at odds with each other.

    WSS

    has goff even been given a chance yet...i don't think so...they have a fucked up coach with an ego and continues to play a loser qb...i don't think we know anything about goff yet...

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    One last time...

    Ain't no fall going to be taken.

    @tour2ma said:

    One last time...

    Ain't no fall going to be taken.

    Correction, the fan base takes the fall every year.

    Cleveland Browns 2017 "Wait Til Next Year Bitches, We Be Good".

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