Who takes the fall?
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So coaches cannot transfer their experience into the talented? I call bullshit...
To a degree. But if you said in the spring "I'll give you Myles Garrett in the draft and you can give him a playbook but you're not allowed to coach him. Ever. OR I'll give you Joe 3 star 2nd team All-PAC 12 DE who is an ok player with about a 5th round grade and you can coach him all you want," I think I know where most coaches are going.
This is the NFL. These guys have the general ideas on technique. You have nuance to learn, but with bad talent, nuance is just lipstick on a pig.
As Alabama strength coach Scott Cochran says: "These guys are already Ferraris. We just put spinners on them."
Urban Meyer's also said something like "I'm always amused when guys brag on themselves like it's not their players that do all the work. Guy'/ bragging about his zone scheme. Yeah, lemme give you a bunch of s*** players and let's see how good your zone scheme looks then."
And those are college coaches. Even more true in the NFL.
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War the talent parity in the nfl isn't anywhere near as unbalanced as it is in college.
Think about the math involved 1696 slots. About 400 rookies brought in from draft and udfa. More than 13000 college players in the fbs most will never play pro ball.
Everybody runs good times, Everybody is a top athlete, Everybody is physically superior. They've all been doing this for longer than they have been alive. Pure College Talent doesn't mean SHIT in the nfl without work ethic and character to back it up. Cameron Wake was undrafted who was projected at round 5. Vs Courtney Brown. I think i'll take the kid that was COACHABLE.
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Work ethic and character factor into talent for the sake of this discussion.
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so hypothetically we go 0-20 losing all 4 preseason games and all 16 regular season games? Who stays? Who goes?
personally i think this is an unlikely but possible scenario. I got us winning 4 down the stretch but that's neither here nor there.
I can see us letting go some odds and ends on the coaching staff (horton/hamilton/saunders) maybe a front office figure(berry/sashi/kovash).
I highly doubt jackson will go but it's possible after such an occurance and more importantly if there is another high profile coach available.
Or hey does no one get fired at all? Maybe we actually hire someone? A true OC prehaps? More Front office personnel?
I'm not on the 0-16 train anymore. Had the Dolphins beat. Everyone stays, at least through next year.
Exactly. I can't find any egregious mistakes and I don't see a scapegoat. I think we all realized we were in for a rocky road and this is what we're getting. Every game has had some exciting parts and every game, for the most part, has been within reach.I'm not on the 0-16 train anymore. Had the Dolphins beat. Everyone stays, at least through next year.
If anything we missed on Carson Wentz but remember the first guy taking Jared Goff is nothing to write home about. I never liked RG3 but at one time he could have been Elite. Unfortunately he never got back to form. When this new bunch of kids finally gets there feet underneath them I think they will show marked improvement over the next year or two.
The organization has never seemed to be the cluster fuck it was with Mike Pettine and Ray Farmer at odds with each other.
WSS
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War the talent parity in the nfl isn't anywhere near as unbalanced as it is in college.
Think about the math involved 1696 slots. About 400 rookies brought in from draft and udfa. More than 13000 college players in the fbs most will never play pro ball.
Everybody runs good times, Everybody is a top athlete, Everybody is physically superior. They've all been doing this for longer than they have been alive. Pure College Talent doesn't mean SHIT in the nfl without work ethic and character to back it up. Cameron Wake was undrafted who was projected at round 5. Vs Courtney Brown. I think i'll take the kid that was COACHABLE.
War the talent parity in the nfl isn't anywhere near as unbalanced as it is in college.
Think about the math involved 1696 slots. About 400 rookies brought in from draft and udfa. More than 13000 college players in the fbs most will never play pro ball.
Everybody runs good times, Everybody is a top athlete, Everybody is physically superior. They've all been doing this for longer than they have been alive. Pure College Talent doesn't mean SHIT in the nfl without work ethic and character to back it up. Cameron Wake was undrafted who was projected at round 5. Vs Courtney Brown. I think i'll take the kid that was COACHABLE.
Right on brother! It's truly a coaches league.
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So are all Asst. Coaches created equal or do we already have the best at every position?
I've got no idea how to measure that.. all we can do is look at their prior stops and see how roughly the same players performed before/after that coach was there.
PFF grades only measure the final result which is ultimately a sum of the two - this isn't Madden where you (could? I haven't played Madden in years) know the breakdown of what 90 game rating was "coach driven" and what was "player improvement from the prior baseline regardless of coach".
Also within the above sum : We'd need to benchmark the baseline coach driven and the baseline player improvement to see who is improving at an average level [eg, "set expectations"] and who is outperforming the league.
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oh, syd.... syd... syd... Not only are you not under my skin, you are not even a pimple on my ass.
Ask around... folks here know what it looks like when someone gets under my skin.
Hint: It does not look like the above.
oh, syd.... syd... syd... Not only are you not under my skin, you are not even a pimple on my ass.
Ask around... folks here know what it looks like when someone gets under my skin.
Hint: It does not look like the above.
ya I have checked around and have determined that you are not worth my time wasting a post on you
so carry on and enjoy your circle jerks with wargago
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Getting pretty close guys only 9 more to go. Horton on the block? Is it hue? Is this why the raiders let him go? If we go 0-20 what's the chances of us signing any free agent talent? Better yet what are the chances Draft Picks start declining to play for us?
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Can not fire hue Jackson. That is all.
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Getting pretty close guys only 9 more to go. Horton on the block? Is it hue? Is this why the raiders let him go? If we go 0-20 what's the chances of us signing any free agent talent? Better yet what are the chances Draft Picks start declining to play for us?
Getting pretty close guys only 9 more to go. Horton on the block? Is it hue? Is this why the raiders let him go? If we go 0-20 what's the chances of us signing any free agent talent? Better yet what are the chances Draft Picks start declining to play for us?
Horton should be hearing "Who....you gonna coach for next year" It may not be in Cleveland.
The defense has been bad......both talent wise and coaching wise.
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Getting pretty close guys only 9 more to go. Horton on the block? Is it hue? Is this why the raiders let him go? If we go 0-20 what's the chances of us signing any free agent talent? Better yet what are the chances Draft Picks start declining to play for us?
Horton should be hearing "Who....you gonna coach for next year" It may not be in Cleveland.
The defense has been bad......both talent wise and coaching wise.
I know we've axed a few head coaches mid season and did the interim thing. When was the last OC or DC that got canned midseason? Fire Horton so he can spend the holidays in the Crib? Or make him suffer the season too?Horton should be hearing "Who....you gonna coach for next year" It may not be in Cleveland.
The defense has been bad......both talent wise and coaching wise.
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I know we've axed a few head coaches mid season and did the interim thing. When was the last OC or DC that got canned midseason? Fire Horton so he can spend the holidays in the Crib? Or make him suffer the season too?Horton should be hearing "Who....you gonna coach for next year" It may not be in Cleveland.
The defense has been bad......both talent wise and coaching wise.
I know we've axed a few head coaches mid season and did the interim thing. When was the last OC or DC that got canned midseason? Fire Horton so he can spend the holidays in the Crib? Or make him suffer the season too?
No. Keep him here.....let him suffer through this mess....partially of his own making.
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Stop trying to run coaches off.
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Exactly. I can't find any egregious mistakes and I don't see a scapegoat. I think we all realized we were in for a rocky road and this is what we're getting. Every game has had some exciting parts and every game, for the most part, has been within reach.I'm not on the 0-16 train anymore. Had the Dolphins beat. Everyone stays, at least through next year.
If anything we missed on Carson Wentz but remember the first guy taking Jared Goff is nothing to write home about. I never liked RG3 but at one time he could have been Elite. Unfortunately he never got back to form. When this new bunch of kids finally gets there feet underneath them I think they will show marked improvement over the next year or two.
The organization has never seemed to be the cluster fuck it was with Mike Pettine and Ray Farmer at odds with each other.
WSS
Exactly. I can't find any egregious mistakes and I don't see a scapegoat. I think we all realized we were in for a rocky road and this is what we're getting. Every game has had some exciting parts and every game, for the most part, has been within reach.
If anything we missed on Carson Wentz but remember the first guy taking Jared Goff is nothing to write home about. I never liked RG3 but at one time he could have been Elite. Unfortunately he never got back to form. When this new bunch of kids finally gets there feet underneath them I think they will show marked improvement over the next year or two.
The organization has never seemed to be the cluster fuck it was with Mike Pettine and Ray Farmer at odds with each other.
WSS
has goff even been given a chance yet...i don't think so...they have a fucked up coach with an ego and continues to play a loser qb...i don't think we know anything about goff yet...
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Only 8 more games... at this rate i'm thinking we may see a coaching/front office change at the bye week...rumor has it hue has begun to have his control of the roster limited
. Also hue has been increasingly involved defense leading to a growing rift between him and horton but hey you get what you get when you pick a coach for his looks -
I'd typically say the blame is squarely on the fans but they are starting to come around. The stadium was pretty empty for game 8 and Hue was asked the question in his postgame presser. What is really needed is a chorus of boos when the shit goes south, bags over heads and banners saying "Jimmy Go Take A Flyer" or "FBI: Failing Browns Inevitable". Until this becomes uncomfortable nothing will change. I don't think Hue is a bad coach but no other franchise will be asking to meet with him in the offseason for an opening. And as a few of us in here will admit, the team is talentless.
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What did the Browns accomplish today? McCown threw for over 300 yards in a loss! We still don't know who our QB of the future is?
Is playing McCown over Hogan the smart thing to do? We won't win any games with that defense so why not see what Kessler and Higan have to offer. What are they waiting for?
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What did the Browns accomplish today? McCown threw for over 300 yards in a loss! We still don't know who our QB of the future is?
Is playing McCown over Hogan the smart thing to do? We won't win any games with that defense so why not see what Kessler and Higan have to offer. What are they waiting for?
Or Hogan has to offerWhat did the Browns accomplish today? McCown threw for over 300 yards in a loss! We still don't know who our QB of the future is?
Is playing McCown over Hogan the smart thing to do? We won't win any games with that defense so why not see what Kessler and Higan have to offer. What are they waiting for?
I wouldn't mind losing if the Browns Front Office was moving in the right direction or was developing an identity! They have no identity!
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