Angel caught on camera?

[Westside Steve]

@gftchris said:

FIFY.

WSS

[gftChris]

@oldbrownsfan said:

I have had a few miracles in my own life. My wife had a tumor that came up on an ultra sound with her pregnancy and she asked for prayer from the church and the very next ultra sound they could not find the tumor which the doctor had claimed before was the size of a grapefruit. The doctor kept looking over and over for the tumor and kept saying to the nurse it couldn't have just disappeared...well it did.

[calfoxwc]

The characterization of more ancient peoples who worshiped the sun, fake idols, etc... doing so out of fear,

is only partly true.

Human beings fear the unknown - there was a lot in those days they didn't understand, couldn't explain,

and they knew THEY didn't create the stars, mountains, earth, sky, themselves, all life...

I think there are too many souls who worship science - it's what they rely on to explain those same unknowns.

Except, there is an aspect to life that doesn't relate to just science. Like how I, a good fifth grade kid, was all alone, down the ravine in our woods, on a record cold single digit very early morning, in a small spring, couldn't get out, and no person ever knew

I was there to come rescue me...and came a few minutes from never making it back home.

and how I still was rescued. Science can explain the brain, and memory. But science can't explain

love, courage, honor, and a lot of other stuff. You can search the net - I'm sure there are plenty of

other stuff.

It's like a computer, maybe - science can explain the accumulation of data - but can't explain how people develop

it into information, and how they act on the information.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/is-this-a-photo-of-a-real-angel-at-a-christian-event-in-cedar-falls-iowa

[OldBrownsFan]

@diehardbrownsfan said:

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/is-this-a-photo-of-a-real-angel-at-a-christian-event-in-cedar-falls-iowa

Whether or not the picture is true I believe angels are sometimes present in churches where worship of the Lord is going on. I have no doubt about it but I am not convinced a camera can catch the presence...which is a spiritual presence..I tend to agree with the author of the article below. vvvvvv

"Over the years, I have found that most people end up believing exactly what they want to believe.

If someone out there is absolutely determined to believe that supernatural events do not exist, then a hundred more stories just like this will not persuade that person.

Personally, I am fully convinced that the God who created all things is still doing supernatural things today just like He always has been."

[BrownsKidd]

I think anyone is free to look at that could and interpret as they choose.

It should be noted that clouds were seen as certain apocalyptic (term doesn't necessarily mean "end of world" here) imagery in Jewish customs. References to clouds can be scene in the old and new testaments many times. Christ was taken up in the clouds and we are advised that he will likely return in the clouds from Heaven. Josephus the Jewish Historian and Tacitus, a Roman historian both saw armies in the clouds that surrounded Jerusalem just before the fall of Jerusalem, in and around 75 A.D.

Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).

Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian

"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).

If you choose to see the cloud as an angel and perhaps a simple reminder that we are all still being watched by something greater than nothing wrong with that.

If you choose to explain by its natural phenomenon, nothing wrong with that either. If you choose to believe that both can be harmonized together, nothing wrong with that either.

[The Cysko Kid]

@oldbrownsfan said:

The deep seated hunger in the human heart for God is the reason for all religions. The love of the miraculous is not a mark of ignorance but an outreaching for an unseen God. It is not a mark of great scholarship to deny the miraculous. Jesus' life was a miracle. His teachings were miraculous, His death and resurrection was a miracle. Every person who is "born again" is a miracle. Christianity is not a religion but the life of God in man.

What that is is a fear of death and our desire to continue this forever. It's a perfectly understandable thing. Nobody wants to go into the darkness. I sure don't.

[OldBrownsFan]

@the-cysko-kid said:

What that is is a fear of death and our desire to continue this forever. It's a perfectly understandable thing. Nobody wants to go into the darkness. I sure don't.

Agree and the bible addresses this:

Jesus like His brothers:

Hebrews 2:14: Therefore, since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, 15: and deliver those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

There is also a deep seated hunger in people for the supernatural and to see miracles. An old time minister I like (he was the real deal versus some tv evangelists today) who had many instances of miracles in his ministry of healing and even some people being raised back from death put things in perspective though in regards to this. He said he would rather see one person get saved in his meetings over 10,000 people getting healed. Even Lazarus whom Jesus raised from death would only live to die again later...the spiritual new birth is the greatest miracle of all.

[MLD Woody]

I crave a Browns Super Bowl. I crave miracles

[One Post]

I've never even seen a ghost before. Or UFO or Bigfoot either. But that's an angel right there.

[jbluhm86]

@pumpkin-eater said:

India has squat toilets. But I guess that bullshit passes as funny to Christophobes.

I think you are confusing squat toilets with outhouses. Squat toilets are just toilets that you have to squat over to take a dump, instead of a sitting position; it has nothing to do with the plumbing. In fact, most squat toilets today are flushable, and have water supplied to them, including plumbing and waste water disposal pipes.

@pumpkin-eater said:

It's fake. Water runs downhill. The statue was outside, far away from the wall of the sanctuary. Explain how wastewater would go from a clogged drain, over to the statue, up the statue, then down its foot... it might be fake but it's not from a toilet or drain

That is not necessarily true. It would be more accurate to describe water as flowing down a gradient, not just downhill: water, if unobstructed, tends to flow from areas of high concentration to low concentration.

As for the statue, it is pretty simple to explain how wastewater can travel against gravity, if you have a basic understanding of physics. In this case, water traveled via capillary action - the movement of water within the spaces of a porous material due to the forces of adhesion, cohesion, and surface tension. Its the same mechanism that trees and other plants use to transport water from the ground up to the top branches and leaves, or how fuel travels up a wick in a tiki torch.

You can test this phenomenon for yourself: get a small, flat dinner plate and pour a small, shallow amount of water into it. Then, place a paper towel roll onto the dish. After a few minutes, the water will begin to travel up the paper towel roll - against gravity - via capillary action.

In the case of the statue, the water from the broken plumbing caused the ground around the crucifix statue to become saturated with moisture. This, coupled along with a relatively dry, wooden statue, created a gradient for water to travel up the statue, via capillary action. Water from the ground moved up the base of the wooden cross, and traveled along the nail connecting body portion of the crucifix of the cross to the wooden cross, allowing for the water to travel down to the feet of the statue and drip off. Sanal Edamaruku - the man who debunked this "miracle" also stated as much:

"The priest and the very active Catholic laity organizations associated with the Our Lady of Velankanni Church in Mumbai [the church where the statue is located] were promoting the idea that water dripping from the feet of a statue of Jesus was a sign from God. Hundreds of believers flocked to the dripping cross, collecting and consuming "holy" drainage water that they believed would cure all ailments...I was invited to the Delhi studio of TV9, a Mumbai-based national channel, to comment. During the program, I rejected the possibility of a miracle but of course could not give scientific explanations without an investigation. The channel then invited me to come to Mumbai. The church authorities agreed.

[Once there,] I had a close look at a nearby washroom and the connected drainage system that passed underneath the concrete base of the cross. I removed some stones from the drain and found it was blocked. I touched the walls, the base, and the cross and

It was very simple: Water from the washroom, which had been blocked in the clogged drainage system, had been transmitted via capillary action into the adjacent walls and the base of the cross as well as into the wooden cross itself. The water came out through a nail hole and ran down over the statue's feet."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"If we are to suppose a miracle to be something so entirely out of the course of what is called nature, that she must go out of that course to accomplish it, and we see an account given of such a miracle by the person who said he saw it, it raises a question in the mind very easily decided, which is,—Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course, or that a man should tell a lie? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course; but we have good reason to believe that millions of lies have been told in the same time; it is, therefore, at least millions to one, that the reporter of a miracle tells a lie."

- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason.

[jbluhm86]

"One said:

I've never even seen a ghost before. Or UFO or Bigfoot either. But that's an angel right there.

This sort of reminds me of a story my friend once told me about his dad. His dad fought in Vietnam and Cambodia during the war, and probably helped create a few ghosts himself, if ghosts are indeed real.

Years later, his dad was up late one night drinking and watching TV, when he saw a ghost appear from the wall, which proceeded to walk right in front of him, and disappear through the adjacent wall.

Now, which is more likely - that his dad truly saw a ghost, or that he was drunk off his ass and just seeing shit?

[One Post]

@jbluhm86 said:

This sort of reminds me of a story my friend once told me about his dad. His dad fought in Vietnam and Cambodia during the war, and probably helped create a few ghosts himself, if ghosts are indeed real.

Years later, his dad was up late one night drinking and watching TV, when he saw a ghost appear from the wall, which proceeded to walk right in front of him, and disappear through the adjacent wall.

Now, which is more likely - that his dad truly saw a ghost, or that he was drunk off his ass and just seeing shit?

I've heard stories from friends about ghosts and I know they're not lying about it because my friends aren't full of shit like me. But still I'd have to see it to believe it.

Now a days with photoshop and other computer picture tricks its hard telling. But I can say this guy in the video seems genuine but hey I bought a Matt Lienart jersey when he got drafted too.

[jbluhm86]

@gftchris said:

See now, you know I disagree with all of those 'miracles' and yet you expect me to take it as proof of miracles? I'm no more likely to say "oh there was a miracle? Oh ok then, miracles happen! rejoice!" than you are to up and disavow the miracles because all logic, reason and the laws of nature preclude them from ever happening and the only 'proof' you have is a millennia-old book.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Lol bullshit. The statue has a concrete base. Do you have any idea how much pressure the water would have to be under to overcome the acceleration of gravity, travel up though the concrete base, then up the statue, yeah water diffuses everyone knows that. But it can't defy physics. If that's how it worked then any boat dock in the world would be leaking water everywhere. If there was so much pressure to push the water out it would just be running out on the ground around the concrete base of the statue. And the sanctuary would be falling down from a ruined, washed out foundation.

[jbluhm86]

@pumpkin-eater said:

Lol bullshit. The statue has a concrete base. Do you have any idea how much pressure the water would have to be under to overcome the acceleration of gravity, travel up though the concrete base, then up the statue, yeah water diffuses everyone knows that. But it can't defy physics. If that's how it worked then any boat dock in the world would be leaking water everywhere. If there was so much pressure to push the water out it would just be running out on the ground around the concrete base of the statue. And the sanctuary would be falling down from a ruined, washed out foundation.

Wow, your stupidity when it comes to basic scientific principles is quite impressive. But, let me try to break down your nonsense:

1) From the brief closeups of the statute in the video, I didn't see any concrete base, but it doesn't really matter. Concrete is itself porous, and is perfectly capable of having water move up it via surface capillary action, if left untreated with some form of sealant or non-porous material:

Opposite to what one might expect, capillary action prefers small holes or pores, rather than larger ones. Large pore sizes, such as those found in some forms of pea gravel and coarse sand, can actually serve to break the flow of capillary water. Smaller pores though, such as those found in concrete and brick, provide excellent paths for such wicking action to occur.

Since concrete is commonly used in building foundations, we often see evidence of capillarity in basements and crawlspaces. The concrete footings wick the water up from the ground, where it then travels up the foundation wall. Evidence of capillary action is often seen on many older brick foundations as a white line visible a foot or so above the ground. This white line is caused by a process known as efflorescence, which occurs when water that is drawn up by capillary action evaporates, leaving behind a residue of salts, minerals, and other materials. Plastic sheeting placed in footing holes prior to pouring of concrete can help to prevent groundwater wicking.

2) Again, water isn't "defying physics" by moving upwards against gravity; if so, tall plants would be fucked, since they wouldn't be able to transport water up to the tallest branches from the roots. As long as the potential energy gradient for water to move up a surface via capillary action is greater than the gravitational energy pulling it down, the water will move up. If water can move up a tree as tall as a redwood ( around 300 ft/ 27 stories), then I don't think it'd be much trouble to move up a 20 foot tall statue.

3) As for your boat dock reference, water does travel up concrete pylons via capillary action; that is why you can see damp concrete well above water line. It tends to be minimal when the sun is out heating the concrete up and evaporating water off of it, but it is more pronounced during twilight hours and overcast days. That's why pylons tend to be made with treated lumber or reinforced concrete composed of hydraulic cement.

4) And as for the foundation, you answered your own question. Why do you think that construction companies tend to waterproof concrete basements and foundations in the first place? Because they are soluble to moisture. Pressure has very little to do with it. It's just the nature of how the building materials interract with the moisture in the surrounding environment.

[LogicIsForSquares]

@mld-woody said:

I crave a Browns Super Bowl. I crave miracles

Just pray about it.

[OldBrownsFan]

Thought this was funny even though I am throwing red meat to the science worshippers. Actually science is great and technology and everything else humans have come up with to improve our lives but in the end we have only been able to accomplish things because of what was given to us. We were able to build a box because the wood and tools were supplied.

[One Post]

God isn't going to fix that we can't fix ourselves. War, sickness and poverty are all fixable. The rest is up to Him. That's what we believe.

[MLD Woody]

@oldbrownsfan said:

Thought this was funny even though I am throwing red meat to the science worshippers. Actually science is great and technology and everything else humans have come up with to improve our lives but in the end we have only been able to accomplish things because of what was given to us. We were able to build a box because the wood and tools were supplied.

The tide goes in

The tide goes out

You can't explain that!