Who takes the fall?
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as a whole our offense has played better than expected and defense much worse than expected...
and I would disagree with this too.....
There were big "expectations" for improvement on our O this year...from many.....considering:
1) we added Coleman(and 3 other WR's), which many claimed as our biggest need
2) Pryor was given a coach that would use him(making it 5 WR's)
3) Hue is an offensive genius AND a QB guru
4) RGIII was gonna return to form and be a big upgrade.
And, those expectations have not been met.....our O is statistically the same as the last 2 years....no "notable" changes or upgrades.....
And there were ZERO expectations for this D, except that they'd be terrible....and they are....
1) We were LAST in the league last year, then cut/released/lost 7 out of 11 starters
How could we get better or have ANY expectation except that they would be worse????
our O is statistically the same as the last 2 years....no "notable" changes or upgrades.....
Year - 2016 - 2015 - 2014Total yards per game - 355.9 - 331.9 - 324.6Pass yards - 241.9 - 236.4 - 216.6rush yards - 114.0 - 95.6 - 108.0Pass yards per attempt - 6.9 - 6.8 - 7.3rushing yards per attempt - 4.9 - 4.0 - 3.6third down completion - 40.4 - 41.9 - 29.5INTs - 18* - 12 - 16Fumbles - 6* - 18 - 7Sacks - 44* - 53 - 31Points per game - 19.8 - 17.4 - 18.7Total overall offense - 12th - 25th - 23rdBold - best of the last three years*ProjectedStatistically the same? I'd say there's some statistical significance to a lot of that. The run game is statistically better, despite losing two quality linemen. The total offense is a hell of a lot better than previous years. The passing yards (best this year) and third down completions are largely the same as last year, way up on 2014. The fumbles are way down on last year, and comparable to 2014.In fact, looking at the statistics, 2014 and 2015 were quite different in a lot of ways. '14 was poor in the run game but stuck with it, and had a low number of sacks and higher pass yard per attempt - a function of the play action, largely, if I remember rightly. '15 was better in passing (thanks in large part to McCown's golden stretch). So to say anything is statistically the same as those two years is a bit crazy, since those two years are nothing like each other.All this, I should add, while being forced to play a rookie QB for most of the season and missing the top wide receiver, playing by my count at least 8 or 9 different linemen, and god knows how many OL combinations.So sure, bitch about the execution of free agency and not keeping Schwartz and Gipson - I'm right there with you. But bitching about the O, at least saying it's no better, is where I'm going to disagree. -
In anticipation of your reply I'll ask, "How do you exceed expectations without improvement?" Just trying to save a little time...
With very low expectations
I hope we improve i hope this all works out but it may not and i think its a realistic possibility we may see coaching changes/fo changes. Cleveland Media is reporting the same and I'm sure everyone in the building at berea knows it aswell they have radio there right?
. Also i'll stop using Preseason in my analysis when we stop making the same mistakes we made there.Point blank question for you, How do you feel about the team making the same mistakes they have been making since preseason?
With very low expectations
I hope we improve i hope this all works out but it may not and i think its a realistic possibility we may see coaching changes/fo changes. Cleveland Media is reporting the same and I'm sure everyone in the building at berea knows it aswell they have radio there right?
. Also i'll stop using Preseason in my analysis when we stop making the same mistakes we made there.Point blank question for you, How do you feel about the team making the same mistakes they have been making since preseason?
lol... fair enough...
As for "same mistakes"... the main one I imagine you are referring to is missing tackles. At its core that's a function of getting in position which in turn is a function of athleticism... something we lack and something where the deficit grows as we move away from the LOS.
If there are others you think are significant, then I'm going to need a list.
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Could someone please remind me, if 'fundamentals' such as tackling, penalties and ball security are so 'fundamental' - why are they having to be taught by NFL coaches? Perhaps it's a byproduct of various 'agreements' with the NFL, NCAA etc that limit tackling in practice, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for other teams.
Why is it Hue Jackson's fault that an undrafted rookie can't tackle?
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I'm tired of people saying "we have done a rebuild before." On this level? When exactly? We literally got rid of all but two of our plus players in the offseason (Haden and Thomas--and calling the former a "plus player" is generous). THE. TEAM. HAS. NO. EXPERIENCED. TALENT. There is not a person on earth that could win 4 games with this group next year. It's absurd to even discuss firing Hue because you can't give his coaching job a real evaluation with the lack of talent on this team. Stop it. You're hurting the Browns.
Exactly.....this team doesn't have that much talent on it. Collins will help that on defense. For everyone who is saying look how great Wentz is and we passed that up. Look at his numbers from last night. 32-43 for 202, 6 yards per pass average. The dude is the ultimate captain check down. With the talent that team has, especially on defense, Kessler could put up those numbers. This team will not win until it can play defense and stop giving up 30+ per game. No team in the league can win giving up that many points.
Exactly.....this team doesn't have that much talent on it. Collins will help that on defense. For everyone who is saying look how great Wentz is and we passed that up. Look at his numbers from last night. 32-43 for 202, 6 yards per pass average. The dude is the ultimate captain check down. With the talent that team has, especially on defense, Kessler could put up those numbers. This team will not win until it can play defense and stop giving up 30+ per game. No team in the league can win giving up that many points.
wentz does not have any real elite recievers...lets see what the eagles do in the offseason...give him some weapons...i don't think he is the capt checkdown as you say...it appears to me he's just managing the game per the eagles game plan...the guy has a cannon of an arm and is accurate...he will be much better down the road...give him some weapons...
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Could someone please remind me, if 'fundamentals' such as tackling, penalties and ball security are so 'fundamental' - why are they having to be taught by NFL coaches? Perhaps it's a byproduct of various 'agreements' with the NFL, NCAA etc that limit tackling in practice, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for other teams.
Why is it Hue Jackson's fault that an undrafted rookie can't tackle?
I think it's the limited practice time allowed. Practice does lead to perfection. Lack of practice leads to ??Could someone please remind me, if 'fundamentals' such as tackling, penalties and ball security are so 'fundamental' - why are they having to be taught by NFL coaches? Perhaps it's a byproduct of various 'agreements' with the NFL, NCAA etc that limit tackling in practice, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for other teams.
Why is it Hue Jackson's fault that an undrafted rookie can't tackle?
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I think it's the limited practice time allowed. Practice does lead to perfection. Lack of practice leads to ??Could someone please remind me, if 'fundamentals' such as tackling, penalties and ball security are so 'fundamental' - why are they having to be taught by NFL coaches? Perhaps it's a byproduct of various 'agreements' with the NFL, NCAA etc that limit tackling in practice, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for other teams.
Why is it Hue Jackson's fault that an undrafted rookie can't tackle?
I think it's the limited practice time allowed. Practice does lead to perfection. Lack of practice leads to ??
... to more reliance on athleticism???
All teams practice under the same restrictions. Not all perform at the same level.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
This is one of the most ridiculous threads that I've read here and I've suffered through more Ghoolie post than I'd care to admit.
I can potentially see a change at DC but Hue will not be fired. As others have stated, Hue won't be fired if only because literally nobody worthy would even consider taking the job and the NFL would absolutely have to either step in and force ownership change or make a "Haslem Rule" making firing a HC impossible for at least 2-3 years, similar to the Stepien Rule in the NBA.
The worst part, some of you dumb dumbs aren't capable of realizing the unbelieveably dire circumstances that would result in firing Hue and are gleefully cheering for it. Absolutely dumbfounding.
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My thoughts exactly, Taco.
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so hey lets say they fire Horton any coaches out there to replace him? any up and coming assistants?
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so hey lets say they fire Horton any coaches out there to replace him? any up and coming assistants?
so hey lets say they fire Horton any coaches out there to replace him? any up and coming assistants?
Pettine is a good DC
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So was romeo
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But unless O'Brien is in trouble in Houston, romeo is employed.
In the College ranks Florida's and LSU's Defenses seem to stand out.
FLA's DC is a fellow named Geoff Collins... http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2016/07/25/florida-gators-assistant-football-coaches-salaries-geoff-collins/87535020/
LSU's is Dave Aranda who the now departed Les Miles hired away from Wisconsin. http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_a40ed0d4-7004-11e6-bd18-ff2f28296957.html
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Charlie Strong should be available!
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I think it's the limited practice time allowed. Practice does lead to perfection. Lack of practice leads to ??
... to more reliance on athleticism???
All teams practice under the same restrictions. Not all perform at the same level.
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An established good team can maintain itself on limited practice but how does a young unestablished team catch up if it is limited in practice? It seems the new CBS just maintains the status quo. I haven't noticed any shitty teams getting much better. More like an equal erosion of play across the board.
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An established good team can maintain itself on limited practice but how does a young unestablished team catch up if it is limited in practice? It seems the new CBS just maintains the status quo. I haven't noticed any shitty teams getting much better. More like an equal erosion of play across the board.
An established good team can maintain itself on limited practice but how does a young unestablished team catch up if it is limited in practice? It seems the new CBS just maintains the status quo. I haven't noticed any shitty teams getting much better. More like an equal erosion of play across the board.
Oakland is getting better. KC had the top pick in 2013 and are now a playoff team. Houston had the top pick in 2014 and are now a playoff team. Carolina had the top pick in 2011 and were in the superbowl last year.
Only us and the Jags seem to be perennially sucky, unless I'm missing some.
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Any time a team is 0-8, you can all but guarantee SOMETHING is going to change. Now, I'm NOT saying we are going "blow it up", that would be stupid, and not something that will remotely be considered. Everyone in the NFL seemed to know we'd be awful, and guess what, we are! We probably have the youngest team in the league, so that doesn't help, but if you had to find a silver lining it's the fact that we're not exactly getting "blown out" every week. We're a few plays away from winning the games, and that's what is so frustrating.
All that being said, SOMETHING is going to change, and when you look at our games, particularly the second halves, you notice our defense just doesn't do enough...and it's not even close. How many turnovers have we forced in the second half? I honestly don't remember, but it can't be many. I believe we've had the lead four times in the second half, and we've obviously lost every single one of those games. Is ALL of that on the defense? No, of course not, but were there times our defense COULD'VE won us the game? Absolutely.
What's virtually impossible to know is how much of the blame is on HORTON, and how much is on the significant lack of talent. Horton isn't the guy dropping potential interceptions. Horton isn't the guy who can't tackle. Horton isn't the guy biting on EVERY SINGLE double move and getting beat deep. But...something DOES appear "wrong" with our defense at times. Horton failed to pick up on the Jets' draw play formation, even when I was screaming "DRAW! DRAW!" at the television. If fans like me recognize the play coming, certainly our coaches should know too. Giving up several first downs to draw plays on 3rd and long AND a 35 yard touchdown is absolutely ridiculous. I realize Horton didn't miss the four tackles on that TD, but still.
However, as somebody else on here eluded to, if you fire somebody, you better have somebody ELSE in mind. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head, but we shall see. A part of me just says, "We had no talent, and we need to give ALL of our coaches time"....but our defense is hard to watch, man.
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I think all of the coordinators and coaches stay. Maybe a position coach changes here or there, but by and large it will all stay pretty much as it is. The defence is *bad* no matter who is coaching. Tramon Williams is slow no matter the scheme, Joe Haden is injured whether it's a 3-4 or a 4-3, Jordan Poyer lacerates his kidney not because of coaching. Tracy Howard, a UDFA corner playing safety isn't doing so because the coaches put him there, the FO went in to the season with only Jordan Poyer. Guess what, Howard does not make a good safety. Who would have known? That's not to blame the front office, it really doesn't matter this year. It might not even matter next year, as long as there is improvement, maybe closer to 6-10 or something like that.
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Any time a team is 0-8, you can all but guarantee SOMETHING is going to change. Now, I'm NOT saying we are going "blow it up", that would be stupid, and not something that will remotely be considered. Everyone in the NFL seemed to know we'd be awful, and guess what, we are! We probably have the youngest team in the league, so that doesn't help, but if you had to find a silver lining it's the fact that we're not exactly getting "blown out" every week. We're a few plays away from winning the games, and that's what is so frustrating.
All that being said, SOMETHING is going to change, and when you look at our games, particularly the second halves, you notice our defense just doesn't do enough...and it's not even close. How many turnovers have we forced in the second half? I honestly don't remember, but it can't be many. I believe we've had the lead four times in the second half, and we've obviously lost every single one of those games. Is ALL of that on the defense? No, of course not, but were there times our defense COULD'VE won us the game? Absolutely.
What's virtually impossible to know is how much of the blame is on HORTON, and how much is on the significant lack of talent. Horton isn't the guy dropping potential interceptions. Horton isn't the guy who can't tackle. Horton isn't the guy biting on EVERY SINGLE double move and getting beat deep. But...something DOES appear "wrong" with our defense at times. Horton failed to pick up on the Jets' draw play formation, even when I was screaming "DRAW! DRAW!" at the television. If fans like me recognize the play coming, certainly our coaches should know too. Giving up several first downs to draw plays on 3rd and long AND a 35 yard touchdown is absolutely ridiculous. I realize Horton didn't miss the four tackles on that TD, but still.
However, as somebody else on here eluded to, if you fire somebody, you better have somebody ELSE in mind. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head, but we shall see. A part of me just says, "We had no talent, and we need to give ALL of our coaches time"....but our defense is hard to watch, man.
- What's virtually impossible to know is how much of the blame is on HORTON, and how much is on the significant lack of talent.
- Horton failed to pick up on the Jets' draw play formation, even when I was screaming "DRAW! DRAW!" at the television. If fans like me recognize the play coming, certainly our coaches should know too.
- Why is that impossible to know?
- Besides the situation, what tipped you?
The one thing their successful draws seemed to have in common is that we were playing man vs them. That would be on the DC.
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it'd be different if the owner and those on board didn't know this year was in the can before it even started.
all part of the plan IMO so why change anything? take what they learn from this year, adjust some things and come back next year with winning in mind. then after 2017 things WILL change depending on record.......not saying firing anyone BUT....... i wouldn't put it past haslam if he looks like a perennial chump. don't think he likes wearing that look.
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