Browns Trade for Patriots LB Jamie Collins
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"Browns coach Hue Jackson, in defense of Collins, even seemed to acknowledge that Collins doesn't stick to the game plan, saying, "The way he freelances is OK with me."
...and The Ghoul would point out that Hue does not instill discipline.
...and The Ghoul would point out that Hue does not instill discipline.
We were all just dying to know the words of wisdom of a sad washed up internet troll. Did you save any of his other sage advice?
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Pryor's agent is Drew Rosenhaus, a notorious asshole. Pricing Pryor's contract is EXTREMELY difficult, as there really isn't someone to compare him to. The difficulty lies in assessing his "ceiling". If this is really his "first year" playing WR (I know he played last year, but was limited by injury and didn't have much playing time), and he's doing THIS well with random QB's, then what could the guy do with another year under his belt with a STABLE QB situation? It's fun to think about. He literally has EVERYTHING you look for in a star WR, and I really think he can reach that elite level. He obviously works HARD, he's committed to Hue Jackson, and his physical traits are mind numbing.
So I disagree when I hear people say that there's no way we'll franchise him for $15 million for ONE season. Is that a shitload of money? Lord yes, but we have it, and we know we need Pryor. We CAN'T let him leave, so we'll do whatever we have to in order to keep his services. Another reason? We're the team that took the risk, that cultivated his talent, that went out on a limb when nobody else would. Pryor is OUR "find", and that's a feather in the cap of our talent gurus. 31 other teams dropped the ball on Pryor, and we ALMOST did. We let him walk last year, and the Patriots damn near scooped him up. Can you IMAGINE Tom Brady throwing the ball to Pryor this year? Yeesh.
My guess? We sign Jamie Collins THIS year to a long deal, and we franchise Pryor. In a perfect world, we sign both of them, but I don't see that happening. Collins is on record saying that he was never offered $10 million a year by Patriots, and he NEVER said he wants "Von Miller money" because he's NOT Von Miller. Don't get me wrong, we're still going to make Collins a VERY rich man, but it made me happy to know he disputed those statements. We wouldn't have made the trade unless we felt confident in securing Collins long term. We didn't have a defensive centerpiece...something we needed....and now we do.
The exciting thing to me (about Collins) is how his presence will make everyone else better. Kirksey is playing better and better, and with Collins to worry about, he'll have the opportunity to make even more plays. Shelton is playing better and CONSISTENT, so maybe he frees some stuff up for Collins? We've been gashed by several tight ends this year, and guess who is one of the best at covering TE's? Collins.
We're getting better. We're getting higher levels of talent. Can we do it ALL in one year? No, no we can't. We're DYING for secondary help, and we need to find a way to get some damn turnovers. I said before the season started that if we FINISHED strong I'd be happy. We still have a chance to do that, no matter how unlikely. If Cody cements his status as our starting QB, Collins gets signed and he's the stud we think, we can go into next year with some real pieces to the puzzle intact.
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We have the franchise tag if and when he decides to hold us up.
Which I assume he will.
A good quality player can't hurt.
WSS
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Ummmm.... no.
Brady is one of the cheaper starting QBs in the league cap-wise... let alone a star. He's restructured his deal a couple times to make it more cap friendly. And I believe Gronk has already done his extention.
With ending contracts included the Pats will be $66mm under the 2017 cap. Scan their UFA list and see how many "must resigns" you see. I see maybe 4...
That is a form of cheating IMO, Brady can take lower money now to help the rest of the cap because he's earnt enough. In a league where the draft etc is designed to keep it fair and competitive that doesn't wash.
Expect he'll be paid millions by Kraft after he retires in some bullshit capacity
That is a form of cheating IMO, Brady can take lower money now to help the rest of the cap because he's earnt enough. In a league where the draft etc is designed to keep it fair and competitive that doesn't wash.
Expect he'll be paid millions by Kraft after he retires in some bullshit capacity
Possible route, but not how "restructuring" typically works... and nothing suggests it is happening here.
When Brady's contract was renegotiated this year to extend it thru 2019, it included a $28mm "signing bonus". Most of this bonus was guaranteed money he was due over the 2016 and 2017 seasons which would have made his cap number huge now. Instead a big chunk of those first two years is now spread over the next four years leaving the back-end, 2018 and 2019 numbers bigger.
This was not his first extension to do the above. If he is still playing come 2018, they'll simply negotiate another extension, if needed.
The danger is the short-term, dead money impact of a player suddenly deciding to leave the game. Not exactly a big risk in Tom's case...
http://overthecap.com/player/tom-brady/1250/
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1665623-how-does-the-salary-cap-work-in-the-nfl
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Pryor's agent is Drew Rosenhaus, a notorious asshole. Pricing Pryor's contract is EXTREMELY difficult, as there really isn't someone to compare him to. The difficulty lies in assessing his "ceiling". If this is really his "first year" playing WR (I know he played last year, but was limited by injury and didn't have much playing time), and he's doing THIS well with random QB's, then what could the guy do with another year under his belt with a STABLE QB situation? It's fun to think about. He literally has EVERYTHING you look for in a star WR, and I really think he can reach that elite level. He obviously works HARD, he's committed to Hue Jackson, and his physical traits are mind numbing.
So I disagree when I hear people say that there's no way we'll franchise him for $15 million for ONE season. Is that a shitload of money? Lord yes, but we have it, and we know we need Pryor. We CAN'T let him leave, so we'll do whatever we have to in order to keep his services. Another reason? We're the team that took the risk, that cultivated his talent, that went out on a limb when nobody else would. Pryor is OUR "find", and that's a feather in the cap of our talent gurus. 31 other teams dropped the ball on Pryor, and we ALMOST did. We let him walk last year, and the Patriots damn near scooped him up. Can you IMAGINE Tom Brady throwing the ball to Pryor this year? Yeesh.
My guess? We sign Jamie Collins THIS year to a long deal, and we franchise Pryor. In a perfect world, we sign both of them, but I don't see that happening. Collins is on record saying that he was never offered $10 million a year by Patriots, and he NEVER said he wants "Von Miller money" because he's NOT Von Miller. Don't get me wrong, we're still going to make Collins a VERY rich man, but it made me happy to know he disputed those statements. We wouldn't have made the trade unless we felt confident in securing Collins long term. We didn't have a defensive centerpiece...something we needed....and now we do.
The exciting thing to me (about Collins) is how his presence will make everyone else better. Kirksey is playing better and better, and with Collins to worry about, he'll have the opportunity to make even more plays. Shelton is playing better and CONSISTENT, so maybe he frees some stuff up for Collins? We've been gashed by several tight ends this year, and guess who is one of the best at covering TE's? Collins.
We're getting better. We're getting higher levels of talent. Can we do it ALL in one year? No, no we can't. We're DYING for secondary help, and we need to find a way to get some damn turnovers. I said before the season started that if we FINISHED strong I'd be happy. We still have a chance to do that, no matter how unlikely. If Cody cements his status as our starting QB, Collins gets signed and he's the stud we think, we can go into next year with some real pieces to the puzzle intact.
So I disagree when I hear people say that there's no way we'll franchise him for $15 million for ONE season. Is that a shitload of money? Lord yes, but we have it, and we know we need Pryor. We CAN'T let him leave, so we'll do whatever we have to in order to keep his services.
The Kirk Cousins' argument... good thought... As with Kirk, a deeper resume would certainly help define Pryor's value. Unfortunately the tag route has often carried the side affect of destroying good will between players and their FOs.
A better route might actually be the Alex Mack approach. Let Pryor cut his best FA deal with us retaining the right of first refusal. Even if a team installed an opt-out clause in their offer as JAX did with Mack, in Pryor's case we'd have his good will to fall back upon.
At least we'd have it as long as Hue is here...
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"Browns coach Hue Jackson, in defense of Collins, even seemed to acknowledge that Collins doesn't stick to the game plan, saying, "The way he freelances is OK with me."
...and The Ghoul would point out that Hue does not instill discipline.
...and The Ghoul would point out that Hue does not instill discipline.
We were all just dying to know the words of wisdom of a sad washed up internet troll. Did you save any of his other sage advice?
So then, are you happy with that statement of Hue's? That Collins can freelance here if he wants?
I don't think that sends out the proper message. Sounds kind of 'undisciplined'...wouldn't you say?
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...and The Ghoul would point out that Hue does not instill discipline.
We were all just dying to know the words of wisdom of a sad washed up internet troll. Did you save any of his other sage advice?
So then, are you happy with that statement of Hue's? That Collins can freelance here if he wants?
I don't think that sends out the proper message. Sounds kind of 'undisciplined'...wouldn't you say?
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Bill B and the organization of the Pats are pretty frugal from what I hear. Except for Tom Brady!
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Depends on what the assignments are around you. There are schemes that free up safeties with no assignment other than to simply read keys and go off what they see and anticipate.
You can do that with linebackers although to a lesser extent because of their responsibility in the run game.
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"Browns coach Hue Jackson, in defense of Collins, even seemed to acknowledge that Collins doesn't stick to the game plan, saying, "The way he freelances is OK with me."
...and The Ghoul would point out that Hue does not instill discipline.
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I'm usually leery of paying big money 4 a player from a great organization.
How much a part of their success is this guy or vice versa? I could pay millions of dollars to get Bill Wyman to play on a record but it won't make it the Rolling Stones.
But again, it can't hurt. If in fact the players are at fault and not Ray Horton.
WSS
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Jamie Collins is expected to play "a lot" this weekend, and may even start. That's pretty amazing considering he's been with us for a couple of days. I'm eager to see him matched up on Jason Whitten.
The other thing I'm interested to see is if there is a "contagious effect" regarding Collins' presence. You ever play a game of pool against a more talented player and notice how you play better and vice versa? People tend to rise to the level of talent around them, and my hope (no matter how silly) is that our defensive players will get a shot in the arm with Collins along side. Don't get it twisted, Jamie Collins is a top 5 linebacker in the NFL. He is now on our team.
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Jamie Collins is expected to play "a lot" this weekend, and may even start. That's pretty amazing considering he's been with us for a couple of days. I'm eager to see him matched up on Jason Whitten.
The other thing I'm interested to see is if there is a "contagious effect" regarding Collins' presence. You ever play a game of pool against a more talented player and notice how you play better and vice versa? People tend to rise to the level of talent around them, and my hope (no matter how silly) is that our defensive players will get a shot in the arm with Collins along side. Don't get it twisted, Jamie Collins is a top 5 linebacker in the NFL. He is now on our team.
Don't get it twisted, Jamie Collins is a top 5 linebacker in the NFL. He is now on our team.
Which makes it all the more concerning that bill let him go
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I hear ya what you're saying, but Bill does this crap. They have another defender that they'll have to pay or franchise, and didn't think they could keep both. Collins refuted the claims that the Patriots offered him $10 mill a year or that he wanted "Von Miller Money". Basically, he insinuated that he was offered $10 mill a year, he'd still BE THERE, LOL.
Bill probably has some walk-on from Topeka Technical College that nobody has heard of, but is completely amazing, stashed on the practice squad. Hahaha.
The trick for our front office is keeping both Pryor and Collins. We can't tag both of them, and I'm not so sure either will be easy to sign. If we're going to start building something, we can't lose high caliber players like this.
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Pryor wants to stay (with Hue). That deal should be done soon after the season end I would imagine.
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Don't get it twisted, Jamie Collins is a top 5 linebacker in the NFL. He is now on our team.
Which makes it all the more concerning that bill let him go
Which makes it all the more concerning that bill let him go
It's the old Trojan Horse Theory then?
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Which makes it all the more concerning that bill let him go
It's the old Trojan Horse Theory then?
It's the old Trojan Horse Theory then?
The old "they hated me in cleveland, so I'll fuck em over any chance I get" theory, possibly.
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Don't get it twisted, Jamie Collins is a top 5 linebacker in the NFL. He is now on our team.
Which makes it all the more concerning that bill let him go
Which makes it all the more concerning that bill let him go
True enough. Bill has rarely made mistakes on players he's let go. Look no further than the QBs.
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It's the old Trojan Horse Theory then?
The old "they hated me in cleveland, so I'll fuck em over any chance I get" theory, possibly.
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As I would say- takes one to know one. It's why he's not around anymore- didn't have the discipline to stick to his allocated (unmoderated) thread.
lol... nice twist there...
Jamie Collins is expected to play "a lot" this weekend, and may even start. That's pretty amazing considering he's been with us for a couple of days. I'm eager to see him matched up on Jason Whitten.
You ever play a game of pool against a more talented player and notice how you play better and vice versa?
Don't get it twisted, Jamie Collins is a top 5 linebacker in the NFL. He is now on our team.
That Collins can walk in and play "a lot" may speak more to the relative complexity of our D vs the Pats' D.
The last time I recall Bill trading a top five-ish player was Richard Seymour for a first round pick to the Raiders who ended up franchising him and then making him the highest paid defender in the league. Collins may be all you say, but "top 5" players don;t go for end of the 3rd picks.
And mostly I've found myself standing off to the side, drinking more and leaning on my pool cue.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
:lol:
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