Who takes the fall?
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Goodness, this is the most dysfunctional fanbase in America.
Hue's the man. We don't know jack about Horton yet. FO is fine. STFU
Ahhh you must have missed the 2013 seasonGoodness, this is the most dysfunctional fanbase in America.
Hue's the man. We don't know jack about Horton yet. FO is fine. STFU
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Yes that one season gave us a ton of data. How could I forget?
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This thread is also assuming we continue to play at this level without improvement of course. This can absolutely be turned around starting as soon as Thursday it's just not looking very likely is all.
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Ahhh you must have missed the 2013 seasonGoodness, this is the most dysfunctional fanbase in America.
Hue's the man. We don't know jack about Horton yet. FO is fine. STFU
Ahhh you must have missed the 2013 season
Cut War some slack still reeling from the Miss St game.
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every coach hand picks their staffs now.
listen, i was one of the first to say this (hue and co.) will be the next homgren shitshow, but i'm wrong more than i am right.
can't fire the staff after one year with no talent to do anything with. AND I MEAN NO TALENT. ZERO. ZILCH.
saw the keystone cops playing on our DLine yesterday. hilarious. nassib get's bone crushed by his partner on a clear path to a tackle.
you can't make this shit up.
saw the keystone cops playing on our DLine yesterday. hilarious. nassib get's bone crushed by his partner on a clear path to a tackle.
you can't make this shit up.
That was funny!
...ok, no, it wasn't funny....it was, roll your eyes and put you face in your hands.
It's just more ineptness.
I'm certain that all of the defensive players that we let go after last season are enjoying what's happening to us.
I expected that our defense would go backwards for a while this season. But I was hoping that by, about now, the players would start to show improvement...like they belong in the league. Unfortunately, they're still looking like skinny kids in a big boy league. Nassib is a good example. He showed flashes in preseason against third stringers....but he certainly looks like a tall, skinny kid against the big fat guy starters he's facing. He can't move them and he can't get around them. All he can do is hope the ball is thrown in his direction so that he can jump up and block the pass.
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Ahhh you must have missed the 2013 season
Cut War some slack still reeling from the Miss St game.
Cut War some slack still reeling from the Miss St game.
This is true lol.
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I don't think there has to be anyone to "take the fall", now that I've had a chance to think about it. Even if we let Ray Horton go after the season, you still have to find someone better, right? Who would want to come to a place where you might only get one year? I just want to see the same staff for three years, and then start making decisions.
As painful as that might be...
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I don't think there has to be anyone to "take the fall", now that I've had a chance to think about it. Even if we let Ray Horton go after the season, you still have to find someone better, right? Who would want to come to a place where you might only get one year? I just want to see the same staff for three years, and then start making decisions.
As painful as that might be...
I don't think there has to be anyone to "take the fall", now that I've had a chance to think about it. Even if we let Ray Horton go after the season, you still have to find someone better, right? Who would want to come to a place where you might only get one year? I just want to see the same staff for three years, and then start making decisions.
As painful as that might be...
Good points. We would not be able to attract anyone better with a known short leash.
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I don't think there has to be anyone to "take the fall", now that I've had a chance to think about it. Even if we let Ray Horton go after the season, you still have to find someone better, right? Who would want to come to a place where you might only get one year? I just want to see the same staff for three years, and then start making decisions.
As painful as that might be...
Good points. We would not be able to attract anyone better with a known short leash.
Good points. We would not be able to attract anyone better with a known short leash.
Where do you find "anyone better" period in mid-season that is not already on the staff?
Here are your choices... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches.html
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Good points. We would not be able to attract anyone better with a known short leash.
Where do you find "anyone better" period in mid-season that is not already on the staff?
Here are your choices... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches.html
Where do you find "anyone better" period in mid-season that is not already on the staff?
Here are your choices... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches.html
I am not in favor of making a change this year.....but definitely next year we need to do something. More, better candidates should be out there after the end of the season.
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Good points. We would not be able to attract anyone better with a known short leash.
Where do you find "anyone better" period in mid-season that is not already on the staff?
Here are your choices... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches.html
Where do you find "anyone better" period in mid-season that is not already on the staff?
Here are your choices... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches.html
He was talking after the season, as was I.
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Well i thought surely the cowboys game was the worst game i'd see from the browns this year.... I was wrong...
Well the bright positives and progress we had been making this season have been notably absent the paat two games...
I think it is safe to say that 0-16 is exceptionally likely at this point.
Also it's safe to say that sticking with jackson and staff would be an effort in continuity for the sake of it, not because it is deserved.
It takes YEARS to build a contender but it only takes 1 to know what you have and i think we are starting to see why the raiders made the decision they made and what i believe will be the decision we make at the conclusion of the season
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Well i thought surely the cowboys game was the worst game i'd see from the browns this year.... I was wrong...
Well the bright positives and progress we had been making this season have been notably absent the paat two games...
I think it is safe to say that 0-16 is exceptionally likely at this point.
Also it's safe to say that sticking with jackson and staff would be an effort in continuity for the sake of it, not because it is deserved.
It takes YEARS to build a contender but it only takes 1 to know what you have and i think we are starting to see why the raiders made the decision they made and what i believe will be the decision we make at the conclusion of the season
Well i thought surely the cowboys game was the worst game i'd see from the browns this year.... I was wrong...
Well the bright positives and progress we had been making this season have been notably absent the paat two games...
I think it is safe to say that 0-16 is exceptionally likely at this point.
Also it's safe to say that sticking with jackson and staff would be an effort in continuity for the sake of it, not because it is deserved.
It takes YEARS to build a contender but it only takes 1 to know what you have and i think we are starting to see why the raiders made the decision they made and what i believe will be the decision we make at the conclusion of the season
So it only took one year to see what Chuck Noll was all about? Billy up in New England? Bill Walsh? Bill parcells? How's about Tom Landry?
Even the coaching giants of the game started rough. Find yourself a chair and have a seat.
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you seem to have this rhetoric only mentioning the successful coaches who struggled early rather than VAST majority of coaches who struggled early never to find success in their nfl coaching career. How ABOUT the successful coaches who flourished early and maintained a good record throughout their career.
Your really showing your bias here tiamat. Any chance for an original objective thought today? -
Where do you find "anyone better" period in mid-season that is not already on the staff?
Here are your choices... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches.html
He was talking after the season, as was I.
He was talking after the season, as was I.
Well... in that case... nevermind...
How ABOUT the successful coaches who flourished early and maintained a good record throughout their career.
How long is that list?
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Don Shula,Vince Lombardi,Joe Gibbs,Bill B
Ron Rivera,Mike Holmgren,Jason Garrett,Gray Kubiak,Brian Billick,Wade Phillips,John Harbaugh
Sean Payton,Jon Gruden,John Madden,Mike Mcarthy,George Seifert,Marvin Lewis,Mike Ditka
Jim Mora,John Fox,Bill Cowher,Mike Shanahan,Jeff Fisher,Dan Reeves and Marty Schottenheimer
Only coaches with more than 50 wins and a winning percentage of greater the 50% included
I've omitted a lot of the other coachs aswell as frankly i didn't know who they were >.< -
Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
- Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
- Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
- George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
- Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
- Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
- Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
- Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
- Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
- Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
- Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
- Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
- Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
- Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
- John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
- Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
- Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
- George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
- Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
- Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
- Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
- Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
- Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
- Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
- Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
- Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
- Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
- Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
- John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
- Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
- Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
- George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
- Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
- Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
- Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
- Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
- Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
- Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
- Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
- Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
- Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
- Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
- John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
Dammit stop letting facts get in the way of a great rant.
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Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
- Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
- Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
- George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
- Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
- Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
- Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
- Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
- Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
- Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
- Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
- Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
- Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
- Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
- John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
1.Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
Improved the win rate year 1 +1
2.Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
Improved the win rate year 1 +6
3.George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
I should have removed him from the list as these years are fairly irrelevent
4.Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +2
5.Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +3
6.Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
Probably should not be on this list
7.Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +4
8.Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
Improved the win rate year 1 +5
9.Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
Improved the win rate year 1. the cowboys finished 6-10 the year before +2
10.Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
I've taken him off this list
11.Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +4
12.Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
Improved the win rate year 1+2
13.Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +1
14.John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
Improved the win rate year 1 +6
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
+36 combined wins for these coaches. or its more wins than the browns have had combined in 8 years if you want to look at it that way lol
Firstly i took Rex Ryan out in an edit because he failed to meet the .500 requirement
Secondly i looked at the initial head coaching job of each coach as the metric as more than a few of these coaches have/had been in the league for many years.
Thirdly your using opinions to belittle facts... seriously your biggest arguement is...meh... the FACT is that each of these coaches improved the team they coached and are some of the best coaches the Nfl has seen
I'm surprised tour i expected more of a counter argument than "I dont agree with your facts because i don't FEEL like it supports my argument"
I'm disappointed your not trying to generate a list of coaches that did poorly in comparison to years prior only to go on to become great coaches in the league.
Coaches that do poorly initially Historically will NOT go on to become great coaches. But that's not saying that it cant happen. Just that it is less likely to happen.
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Half those guys would have been run outta here on a rail by now. Jason Garrett? Ha. Guy's got a top 3 offense from a talent standpoint and couldn't throw up 2 TDs/a game last year. Ron Rivera? Look at some of the seasons he's had.
Caine is addicted to firing coaches. He's built that monster, and if he doesn't feed it, it'll bite him. Gotta scratch the itch.
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