Hopes, dreams and fears for games 9-16
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Still you.
I like how you're using the opinion of others here as validation, yet when most of the board hated Pettine you spent hours and hours trying to change hearts. Pretty much made my point exactly. No benefit of the doubt for Hue from you.
The real prime contender for a firing here is whoever.....taught......you.....punctuation.
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Still you.
I like how you're using the opinion of others here as validation, yet when most of the board hated Pettine you spent hours and hours trying to change hearts. Pretty much made my point exactly. No benefit of the doubt for Hue from you.
The real prime contender for a firing here is whoever.....taught......you.....punctuation.
Lol, and with correct punctuation, you can go up by going down. Please lower it up a bit.Still you.
I like how you're using the opinion of others here as validation, yet when most of the board hated Pettine you spent hours and hours trying to change hearts. Pretty much made my point exactly. No benefit of the doubt for Hue from you.
The real prime contender for a firing here is whoever.....taught......you.....punctuation.
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I liked pettine but hated farmer. I like jackson but hate horton... Unfortunately Jackson an horton are a package deal so sorry hue you made your bed. I do like our front office this go around though and have liked our draft not so much our free agency but i have a feeling that will pick up next year. I get the build from draft but i predict much more activity in free agency this upcoming offseason
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When you get down to punctuation comments.... you've lost...
Nah, I have wanted to say something forever because excessive ellipse users bug the hell out of me and I saw the opening. He apologized (or whatever word you want to use) for Pettine but unloads on Hue. Simple as that. I didn't/won't make a critical evaluation of either in their first year.
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When you get down to punctuation comments.... you've lost...
Nah, I have wanted to say something forever because excessive ellipse users bug the hell out of me and I saw the opening. He apologized (or whatever word you want to use) for Pettine but unloads on Hue. Simple as that. I didn't/won't make a critical evaluation of either in their first year.
He apologized (or whatever word you want to use) for Pettine but unloads on Hue. Simple as that.
This is my last comment(cause Ive said it a billion times)...and then Im out...
1) I did not defend Pettine, I fought against another reboot. Had plenty of issues with both Pettine and Farmer, but argued endlessly that THEY were not the reason the team sucked and that the team would suck even with a new coach. Again....Im not a Pettine fan, Im a reboot hater.....(and I was right, the team isnt any better)
Note: you mentioned in one of your previous comments that you thought Jackson would have won 4 more games with the same team. Does that mean you advocate tearing a 7-9 team down to dust? Cause that would be crazy...right?....who does that?
2) I have NEVER unloaded on Hue. EVER. And, infact, have said a number of times(on this board) that he should NOT be fired(for the same reasons Pettine shouldnt have been fired) and he should have time...but, that does not mean I think he's perfect or a savior either....so, yeah, when I see questionable shit I will say it.....just like I did with Farmer and Pettine many many times....but having a negative critique is not unloading on Hue......I have no issue with Hue, other than him being crowned some type of genius and savior, when he looks more like an average rookie head coach.....actually kind of feel sorry for him....think Shashi is shafting him a bit.....just my opinon
3) And finally.....for like the 3rd time.... In this thread, I went after the FO....FO ....FO......yet you insist I am engaging in some type of Pettine thing. Which makes no sense, considering Im talking about FO.....Ive not mentioned Pettine in one post, but you have thrown him in my face in your last 7 posts.....and you were the one telling me to "get over it".....
How about you do the same....?....K?
it's all spelled out for you....again.....please try to understand this time....and if you still insist on attaching your own meaning of what Im thinking and completely discount what Im telling you Im thinking....then there is no help ......your on your own
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You mean the FO is more responsible for the players on the field than Magical Coach Number 32?
How dare you, sir. I demand satisfaction. Pistols at dawn!
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He apologized (or whatever word you want to use) for Pettine but unloads on Hue. Simple as that.
This is my last comment(cause Ive said it a billion times)...and then Im out...
1) I did not defend Pettine, I fought against another reboot. Had plenty of issues with both Pettine and Farmer, but argued endlessly that THEY were not the reason the team sucked and that the team would suck even with a new coach. Again....Im not a Pettine fan, Im a reboot hater.....(and I was right, the team isnt any better)
Note: you mentioned in one of your previous comments that you thought Jackson would have won 4 more games with the same team. Does that mean you advocate tearing a 7-9 team down to dust? Cause that would be crazy...right?....who does that?
2) I have NEVER unloaded on Hue. EVER. And, infact, have said a number of times(on this board) that he should NOT be fired(for the same reasons Pettine shouldnt have been fired) and he should have time...but, that does not mean I think he's perfect or a savior either....so, yeah, when I see questionable shit I will say it.....just like I did with Farmer and Pettine many many times....but having a negative critique is not unloading on Hue......I have no issue with Hue, other than him being crowned some type of genius and savior, when he looks more like an average rookie head coach.....actually kind of feel sorry for him....think Shashi is shafting him a bit.....just my opinon
3) And finally.....for like the 3rd time.... In this thread, I went after the FO....FO ....FO......yet you insist I am engaging in some type of Pettine thing. Which makes no sense, considering Im talking about FO.....Ive not mentioned Pettine in one post, but you have thrown him in my face in your last 7 posts.....and you were the one telling me to "get over it".....
How about you do the same....?....K?
it's all spelled out for you....again.....please try to understand this time....and if you still insist on attaching your own meaning of what Im thinking and completely discount what Im telling you Im thinking....then there is no help ......your on your own
This is my last comment(cause Ive said it a billion times)...and then Im out...
1) I did not defend Pettine, I fought against another reboot. Had plenty of issues with both Pettine and Farmer, but argued endlessly that THEY were not the reason the team sucked and that the team would suck even with a new coach. Again....Im not a Pettine fan, Im a reboot hater.....(and I was right, the team isnt any better)
Certainly not how I remember it but I'll take your word for it. Regardless, the comments you make now are not even remotely the same. So I guess you're not a reboot hater anymore.
Note: you mentioned in one of your previous comments that you thought Jackson would have won 4 more games with the same team. Does that mean you advocate tearing a 7-9 team down to dust? Cause that would be crazy...right?....who does that?
7-9 as a ceiling with a really good coach? No, not crazy at all. That's a crappy team.
2) I have NEVER unloaded on Hue. EVER. And, infact, have said a number of times(on this board) that he should NOT be fired(for the same reasons Pettine shouldnt have been fired) and he should have time...but, that does not mean I think he's perfect or a savior either....so, yeah, when I see questionable shit I will say it.....just like I did with Farmer and Pettine many many times....but having a negative critique is not unloading on Hue......I have no issue with Hue, other than him being crowned some type of genius and savior, when he looks more like an average rookie head coach.....actually kind of feel sorry for him....think Shashi is shafting him a bit.....just my opinon
I agree to a degree. A small degree.
3) And finally.....for like the 3rd time.... In this thread, I went after the FO....FO ....FO......yet you insist I am engaging in some type of Pettine thing. Which makes no sense, considering Im talking about FO.....Ive not mentioned Pettine in one post, but you have thrown him in my face in your last 7 posts.....and you were the one telling me to "get over it".....
I laid out several examples of you unloading on Hue though.
How about you do the same....?....K?
it's all spelled out for you....again.....please try to understand this time....and if you still insist on attaching your own meaning of what Im thinking and completely discount what Im telling you Im thinking....then there is no help ......your on your own
I just wish you could acknowledge that constantly complaining about the staff only aids in their firing. So, as someone against the firing, maybe you could back it up a little bit. I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me." But I just believe these things spread. Stuff you read on a message board gets talked about around the water cooler. Then in a casual conversation with the boss. Then in the boxes at the stadium. Then it eventually reaches Jimmy. Opinions trickle up all the time and we know how fragile Jimmy is.
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Best staff on the planet. Too bad they can't put more points on the board than the opposing team though.
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This is my last comment(cause Ive said it a billion times)...and then Im out...
1) I did not defend Pettine, I fought against another reboot. Had plenty of issues with both Pettine and Farmer, but argued endlessly that THEY were not the reason the team sucked and that the team would suck even with a new coach. Again....Im not a Pettine fan, Im a reboot hater.....(and I was right, the team isnt any better)
Certainly not how I remember it but I'll take your word for it. Regardless, the comments you make now are not even remotely the same. So I guess you're not a reboot hater anymore.
Note: you mentioned in one of your previous comments that you thought Jackson would have won 4 more games with the same team. Does that mean you advocate tearing a 7-9 team down to dust? Cause that would be crazy...right?....who does that?
7-9 as a ceiling with a really good coach? No, not crazy at all. That's a crappy team.
2) I have NEVER unloaded on Hue. EVER. And, infact, have said a number of times(on this board) that he should NOT be fired(for the same reasons Pettine shouldnt have been fired) and he should have time...but, that does not mean I think he's perfect or a savior either....so, yeah, when I see questionable shit I will say it.....just like I did with Farmer and Pettine many many times....but having a negative critique is not unloading on Hue......I have no issue with Hue, other than him being crowned some type of genius and savior, when he looks more like an average rookie head coach.....actually kind of feel sorry for him....think Shashi is shafting him a bit.....just my opinon
I agree to a degree. A small degree.
3) And finally.....for like the 3rd time.... In this thread, I went after the FO....FO ....FO......yet you insist I am engaging in some type of Pettine thing. Which makes no sense, considering Im talking about FO.....Ive not mentioned Pettine in one post, but you have thrown him in my face in your last 7 posts.....and you were the one telling me to "get over it".....
I laid out several examples of you unloading on Hue though.
How about you do the same....?....K?
it's all spelled out for you....again.....please try to understand this time....and if you still insist on attaching your own meaning of what Im thinking and completely discount what Im telling you Im thinking....then there is no help ......your on your own
I just wish you could acknowledge that constantly complaining about the staff only aids in their firing. So, as someone against the firing, maybe you could back it up a little bit. I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me." But I just believe these things spread. Stuff you read on a message board gets talked about around the water cooler. Then in a casual conversation with the boss. Then in the boxes at the stadium. Then it eventually reaches Jimmy. Opinions trickle up all the time and we know how fragile Jimmy is.
I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me.
Well....they certainly didnt listen to me last year.....or this year......
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This is my last comment(cause Ive said it a billion times)...and then Im out...
1) I did not defend Pettine, I fought against another reboot. Had plenty of issues with both Pettine and Farmer, but argued endlessly that THEY were not the reason the team sucked and that the team would suck even with a new coach. Again....Im not a Pettine fan, Im a reboot hater.....(and I was right, the team isnt any better)
Certainly not how I remember it but I'll take your word for it. Regardless, the comments you make now are not even remotely the same. So I guess you're not a reboot hater anymore.
Note: you mentioned in one of your previous comments that you thought Jackson would have won 4 more games with the same team. Does that mean you advocate tearing a 7-9 team down to dust? Cause that would be crazy...right?....who does that?
7-9 as a ceiling with a really good coach? No, not crazy at all. That's a crappy team.
2) I have NEVER unloaded on Hue. EVER. And, infact, have said a number of times(on this board) that he should NOT be fired(for the same reasons Pettine shouldnt have been fired) and he should have time...but, that does not mean I think he's perfect or a savior either....so, yeah, when I see questionable shit I will say it.....just like I did with Farmer and Pettine many many times....but having a negative critique is not unloading on Hue......I have no issue with Hue, other than him being crowned some type of genius and savior, when he looks more like an average rookie head coach.....actually kind of feel sorry for him....think Shashi is shafting him a bit.....just my opinon
I agree to a degree. A small degree.
3) And finally.....for like the 3rd time.... In this thread, I went after the FO....FO ....FO......yet you insist I am engaging in some type of Pettine thing. Which makes no sense, considering Im talking about FO.....Ive not mentioned Pettine in one post, but you have thrown him in my face in your last 7 posts.....and you were the one telling me to "get over it".....
I laid out several examples of you unloading on Hue though.
How about you do the same....?....K?
it's all spelled out for you....again.....please try to understand this time....and if you still insist on attaching your own meaning of what Im thinking and completely discount what Im telling you Im thinking....then there is no help ......your on your own
I just wish you could acknowledge that constantly complaining about the staff only aids in their firing. So, as someone against the firing, maybe you could back it up a little bit. I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me." But I just believe these things spread. Stuff you read on a message board gets talked about around the water cooler. Then in a casual conversation with the boss. Then in the boxes at the stadium. Then it eventually reaches Jimmy. Opinions trickle up all the time and we know how fragile Jimmy is.
I just wish you could acknowledge that constantly complaining about the staff only aids in their firing. So, as someone against the firing, maybe you could back it up a little bit. I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me." But I just believe these things spread. Stuff you read on a message board gets talked about around the water cooler. Then in a casual conversation with the boss. Then in the boxes at the stadium. Then it eventually reaches Jimmy. Opinions trickle up all the time and we know how fragile Jimmy is.
Bro Mud isn't the problem. The inconsistency of the front office is.......
It's good to remain optimistic, but Hue isn't some kind of genius, he's been dealt a rough deck and he's struggling with not much talent.....
As far as Cam Erving goes, maybe he should quit football and become a Chef?
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I just wish you could acknowledge that constantly complaining about the staff only aids in their firing. So, as someone against the firing, maybe you could back it up a little bit. I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me." But I just believe these things spread. Stuff you read on a message board gets talked about around the water cooler. Then in a casual conversation with the boss. Then in the boxes at the stadium. Then it eventually reaches Jimmy. Opinions trickle up all the time and we know how fragile Jimmy is.
Bro Mud isn't the problem. The inconsistency of the front office is.......
It's good to remain optimistic, but Hue isn't some kind of genius, he's been dealt a rough deck and he's struggling with not much talent.....
As far as Cam Erving goes, maybe he should quit football and become a Chef?
Bro Mud isn't the problem. The inconsistency of the front office is.......
It's good to remain optimistic, but Hue isn't some kind of genius, he's been dealt a rough deck and he's struggling with not much talent.....
I think part of the reason our O falls off in the second half is that we just don't have the talent to keep it up - in the first half, we can maybe do all kinds of surprise things that catch a team off guard, but that runs out and teams force us to play standard stuff, and we struggle.
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I just wish you could acknowledge that constantly complaining about the staff only aids in their firing. So, as someone against the firing, maybe you could back it up a little bit. I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me." But I just believe these things spread. Stuff you read on a message board gets talked about around the water cooler. Then in a casual conversation with the boss. Then in the boxes at the stadium. Then it eventually reaches Jimmy. Opinions trickle up all the time and we know how fragile Jimmy is.
Bro Mud isn't the problem. The inconsistency of the front office is.......
It's good to remain optimistic, but Hue isn't some kind of genius, he's been dealt a rough deck and he's struggling with not much talent.....
As far as Cam Erving goes, maybe he should quit football and become a Chef?
As far as Cam Erving goes, maybe he should quit football and become a Chef?
"Sushi With Sashi and Chef Cam!" Yeah, has a nice TV program ring to it. God please make this happen,
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Just browsing through this topic, the truth is you guys are all correct. Coaching was a problem last year. Pettine did not hold players accountable. Jim O'Neil is sucking just as bad in SF as he did here. Maybe that SF defense also lacks talent, but the common denominator I see is Jim O'Neil.
Talent was also a problem last year. We know this now because we got rid of a coaching staff that had maybe less than 50 years combined experience with a coaching staff that has over 120 years of combined experience, and the team still sucks. So talent is a problem this year, too.
We all have to accept that changing the coaching staff was only part of the solution. We now need to improve the team's talent. That's going to take multiple drafts. It's going to take time to develop that talent, and sometimes that takes years. Look at Danny Shelton. Last year people were calling him a bust. Now he's one of the top DT in the league.
Getting rid of the coaching staff or the FO will just set us back because new guys come in and get rid of anybody they don't like. We've been doing that in Cleveland since 1999 and that is why we rarely win.
Hue Jackson is the right man for this job because despite being 0-9, he still comes in Monday morning with a positive and determined attitude.
As for Cam Erving, we need to try him out at right tackle before he's declared a bust. The guy is too tall for center. Look at how O-lines line up. The center is right up on the line of scrimmage obviously, and other linemen are about a foot back from it. Tall guys like Erving need that space to get their momentum going for run blocking and they need the time it gives them to react when pass blocking. Erving doesn't get that at center. And oh yeah, he played more games at tackle in college than center. The guy is a tackle, not a center, folks.
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Just browsing through this topic, the truth is you guys are all correct. Coaching was a problem last year. Pettine did not hold players accountable. Jim O'Neil is sucking just as bad in SF as he did here. Maybe that SF defense also lacks talent, but the common denominator I see is Jim O'Neil.
Talent was also a problem last year. We know this now because we got rid of a coaching staff that had maybe less than 50 years combined experience with a coaching staff that has over 120 years of combined experience, and the team still sucks. So talent is a problem this year, too.
We all have to accept that changing the coaching staff was only part of the solution. We now need to improve the team's talent. That's going to take multiple drafts. It's going to take time to develop that talent, and sometimes that takes years. Look at Danny Shelton. Last year people were calling him a bust. Now he's one of the top DT in the league.
Getting rid of the coaching staff or the FO will just set us back because new guys come in and get rid of anybody they don't like. We've been doing that in Cleveland since 1999 and that is why we rarely win.
Hue Jackson is the right man for this job because despite being 0-9, he still comes in Monday morning with a positive and determined attitude.
As for Cam Erving, we need to try him out at right tackle before he's declared a bust. The guy is too tall for center. Look at how O-lines line up. The center is right up on the line of scrimmage obviously, and other linemen are about a foot back from it. Tall guys like Erving need that space to get their momentum going for run blocking and they need the time it gives them to react when pass blocking. Erving doesn't get that at center. And oh yeah, he played more games at tackle in college than center. The guy is a tackle, not a center, folks.
As for Cam Erving, we need to try him out at right tackle before he's declared a bust. The guy is too tall for center. Look at how O-lines line up. The center is right up on the line of scrimmage obviously, and other linemen are about a foot back from it. Tall guys like Erving need that space to get their momentum going for run blocking and they need the time it gives them to react when pass blocking. Erving doesn't get that at center. And oh yeah, he played more games at tackle in college than center. The guy is a tackle, not a center, folks.
Agree with much of your full post... less so in its closing paragraph.
While it's true Cam is tall for a Center, regardless of where you play on the OL "explosion" out of a stance is a requirement of the position and Cam does not have it. Wherever you put him on the line the D will adjust and expose him. This is what I said during his stint at OG last season. And when I reviewed his limited tape at Center at LSU, it was clear that he had issues whenever a DL covered him. This is why I laughed when folks said he'd be fine once moved to Center, his "natural" position. And it is not as if there have not been successful, tall interior OL in the league.
As for OT... no, just no. He does not have the feet for PassPro. That was clear on his LSU tape... on a lot more tape than had him at Center. His only chance is in the "phone booth" and even in there his reaction to stunts, any quick rush is woeful. Put him on the edge and as a DC I overpower him with big DEs on early downs and run around him in passing situations. He simply cannot be hidden.
Might he improve? Sure... but even vs. other OL prospects on our roster, I do not like his odds.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
As for Cam Erving, we need to try him out at right tackle before he's declared a bust. The guy is too tall for center. Look at how O-lines line up. The center is right up on the line of scrimmage obviously, and other linemen are about a foot back from it. Tall guys like Erving need that space to get their momentum going for run blocking and they need the time it gives them to react when pass blocking. Erving doesn't get that at center. And oh yeah, he played more games at tackle in college than center. The guy is a tackle, not a center, folks.
Agree with much of your full post... less so in its closing paragraph.
While it's true Cam is tall for a Center, regardless of where you play on the OL "explosion" out of a stance is a requirement of the position and Cam does not have it. Wherever you put him on the line the D will adjust and expose him. This is what I said during his stint at OG last season. And when I reviewed his limited tape at Center at LSU, it was clear that he had issues whenever a DL covered him. This is why I laughed when folks said he'd be fine once moved to Center, his "natural" position. And it is not as if there have not been successful, tall interior OL in the league.
As for OT... no, just no. He does not have the feet for PassPro. That was clear on his LSU tape... on a lot more tape than had him at Center. His only chance is in the "phone booth" and even in there his reaction to stunts, any quick rush is woeful. Put him on the edge and as a DC I overpower him with big DEs on early downs and run around him in passing situations. He simply cannot be hidden.
Might he improve? Sure... but even vs. other OL prospects on our roster, I do not like his odds.
Agree with much of your full post... less so in its closing paragraph.
While it's true Cam is tall for a Center, regardless of where you play on the OL "explosion" out of a stance is a requirement of the position and Cam does not have it. Wherever you put him on the line the D will adjust and expose him. This is what I said during his stint at OG last season. And when I reviewed his limited tape at Center at LSU, it was clear that he had issues whenever a DL covered him. This is why I laughed when folks said he'd be fine once moved to Center, his "natural" position. And it is not as if there have not been successful, tall interior OL in the league.
As for OT... no, just no. He does not have the feet for PassPro. That was clear on his LSU tape... on a lot more tape than had him at Center. His only chance is in the "phone booth" and even in there his reaction to stunts, any quick rush is woeful. Put him on the edge and as a DC I overpower him with big DEs on early downs and run around him in passing situations. He simply cannot be hidden.
Might he improve? Sure... but even vs. other OL prospects on our roster, I do not like his odds.
I haven't looked at film outside of Browns games so I will certainly defer to you on that. I hoped he may be able to generate more explosion out of OT but it sounds like a long shot. I do know Hue is thinking about trying him at OT. The season is shot so may as well give him that one last shot before you show him the door.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/11/hue_jackson_says_if_cam_erving.html
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