Who takes the fall?
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it's a poor workman who blames his tools
it's a poor workman who blames his tools
If only football players we're inanimate, metal based objects.
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your right i do love firing coaches it really makes me happy to fire coach after coach, except for Pettine and Eric M and Chud. But i wanted Horton fired twice lol and Jim O'Neil once
your right i do love firing coaches it really makes me happy to fire coach after coach, except for Pettine and Eric M and Chud. But i wanted Horton fired twice lol and Jim O'Neil once
Yes, clearly it does. Outside of idiots like Ghoolie, you were the first to bring it up, and you haven't let it go.
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I will fully and freely admit i wanted horton to be fired the same day he was hired. He's always been terrible
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And Hue shortly thereafter. Cool.
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I dont condone firing Hue.....BUT.....I dont see any reason we cant switch/add/change some coaches and or fo people......
IF its needed....
It's what I fought for last year....and will again this year.......tweak and adjust.....with no melt downs or resets....
We do it constantly with players.....so, why not with staff?.....
Instead of firing someone......Id suggest we add a "football" guy to the front office.....
In reality, they never named a GM last year and created a group think thing, with Shashi being the leader......my vote goes to adding a "real" GM with football experience and knowledge......
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I just sat down and read this from the beginning.
Jesus Christ some of you are stupid.
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says a youngin with all the time in the world hoping to see change during his lifetime in a constant suck team.
remember this when ur my age and the browns still haven't won shit………then you'll be the old blowhard, with a dope flying car.
there's the 'let's stay the course' people and then there's the 'let's make a change' people. and the people have spoken.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Landry had a losing record his first 4 seasons - and he was already a defensive genius with NYG. You may remember him inventing the concept of the MLB with Sam Huff.
And you guys would want him fired.
And they had more rounds in the draft those years.
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dude, what is it that you people don't get? ok, there might be some people on here that just want hue fired to have him fired. i'm not one. i knew at the beginning of the season that this was going to be 0 and 16. no doubt in my mind. as i said in another post, i don't care if they tank it next year as well AS LONG AS I SEE IMPROVEMENT. on paper and on the field.
what some of you pacifists don't get is what business model hires a CEO who for the first half of the year has zilch to show for his work except for cashing his checks? what business doesn't strive for perfection in all of it's employees? sure there are ups and downs and growing pains along the way (hence a one year pass, maybe two tops). but for 'you' to sit back and just say "hey we all knew it. take it easy." fuck 'you'!
blatant bad coaching on both sides of the ball. bad decision making from the start with the FO (and owner it seems now IMO). if there were stock holders with a board that made decisions how do you think that would be going for everyone involved right now? there's a demand for doing it right and the foot up the ass is getting bigger and going higher with every loss. believe that pal.
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Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
1.Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
Improved the win rate year 1 +1
2.Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
Improved the win rate year 1 +6
3.George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
I should have removed him from the list as these years are fairly irrelevent
4.Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +2
5.Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +3
6.Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
Probably should not be on this list
7.Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +4
8.Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
Improved the win rate year 1 +5
9.Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
Improved the win rate year 1. the cowboys finished 6-10 the year before +2
10.Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
I've taken him off this list
11.Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +4
12.Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
Improved the win rate year 1+2
13.Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +1
14.John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
Improved the win rate year 1 +6
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
+36 combined wins for these coaches. or its more wins than the browns have had combined in 8 years if you want to look at it that way lol
Firstly i took Rex Ryan out in an edit because he failed to meet the .500 requirement
Secondly i looked at the initial head coaching job of each coach as the metric as more than a few of these coaches have/had been in the league for many years.
Thirdly your using opinions to belittle facts... seriously your biggest arguement is...meh... the FACT is that each of these coaches improved the team they coached and are some of the best coaches the Nfl has seen
I'm surprised tour i expected more of a counter argument than "I dont agree with your facts because i don't FEEL like it supports my argument"
I'm disappointed your not trying to generate a list of coaches that did poorly in comparison to years prior only to go on to become great coaches in the league.
Coaches that do poorly initially Historically will NOT go on to become great coaches. But that's not saying that it cant happen. Just that it is less likely to happen.
Firstly i took Rex Ryan out in an edit because he failed to meet the .500 requirement
Secondly i looked at the initial head coaching job of each coach as the metric as more than a few of these coaches have/had been in the league for many years.
Thirdly your using opinions to belittle facts... seriously your biggest arguement is...meh... the FACT is that each of these coaches improved the team they coached and are some of the best coaches the Nfl has seen
I'm surprised tour i expected more of a counter argument than "I dont agree with your facts because i don't FEEL like it supports my argument"
I'm disappointed your not trying to generate a list of coaches that did poorly in comparison to years prior only to go on to become great coaches in the league.
Coaches that do poorly initially Historically will NOT go on to become great coaches. But that's not saying that it cant happen. Just that it is less likely to happen.
Right.... I am so ashamed for having chosen to interpret facts differently than you...
You seriously want credit for citing a HC that took a team from 7-9 to 8-8? You maintain that circumstance is germane to a discussion of Hue?
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Please remember that the argument is not meant to be a coaches are only good if the y are successful in their first year and fire them otherwise but using tom landry and chuck noll as a reason not to fire Hue Jackson because they also started poorly is silly and has been mentioned about 2000 times now.
Front office could be changed instead of Hue Jax as mud pointed out aswell and would still satisfy the point of the speculation here.
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says a youngin with all the time in the world hoping to see change during his lifetime in a constant suck team.
remember this when ur my age and the browns still haven't won shit………then you'll be the old blowhard, with a dope flying car.
there's the 'let's stay the course' people and then there's the 'let's make a change' people. and the people have spoken.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
says a youngin with all the time in the world hoping to see change during his lifetime in a constant suck team.
remember this when ur my age and the browns still haven't won shitthen you'll be the old blowhard, with a dope flying car.
there's the 'let's stay the course' people and then there's the 'let's make a change' people. and the people have spoken.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Conversely, you were at least alive to see years of good Browns play. I was born in 89, for the most part I've only seen sorrow.
I've seen 4 winning seasons in my entire life.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Please remember that the argument is not meant to be a coaches are only good if the y are successful in their first year and fire them otherwise but using tom landry and chuck noll as a reason not to fire Hue Jackson because they also started poorly is silly and has been mentioned about 2000 times now.
Front office could be changed instead of Hue Jax as mud pointed out aswell and would still satisfy the point of the speculation here.
Please remember that the argument is not meant to be a coaches are only good if the y are successful in their first year and fire them otherwise but using tom landry and chuck noll as a reason not to fire Hue Jackson because they also started poorly is silly and has been mentioned about 2000 times now.
Front office could be changed instead of Hue Jax as mud pointed out aswell and would still satisfy the point of the speculation here.
Your argument is that you know what you have within one year. Does that NOT imply a winning team? Because that is exactly where you were heading and in such case, Landry and Noll are great examples.
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Im not going to spend the time analyzing the pro and cons or record differences of front office change and how it relates to first year coaches or second year coaches aswell.
We can all admit we are a bit off the rails currently as a team whether that be an over reliance on analytics for player acquisition or over reliance on coaching in that case. Horrible luck or poor coaching or a dearth of talent. Doing this poorly I can guarantee is NOT part of the plan.
Unless we win some games soon changes are coming i don't know who but if we go 0-16 it could be anybody. I still prefer New DC and a true OC.
Tia both our points can be true
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It seems that if Horton goes, it should be Hue that pulls that trigger. But if it's the HC that goes, that one is or should be on the GM. OK except we don't have a real GM. It's a triad there. Depo, Shashi and Jimmy. I can't help but wonder who is making decisions? Right now we're the worst at everything, from blocking to drafting. Is there improvement? Do you really have to go backwards to go forward? Never had to pre 99.
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No you don't flying. I believe the only safe spot in the building will be depo and haslem but that being said i Highly Highly doubt a full reset would happen. If HC goes for example that will be it FO safe. Probably have a little bit of each for changes. Couple of coaches here maybe sashi brown. Hell maybe Al Saunders gets to be HC and Hue Jax is the OC hell i dont know. If i did i wouldn't be here with you glorious bastards suffering another crap season arguing for things that wont matter in 3 years hoping for another win.
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I'm not saying we axe or don't axe anyone. What's the chain of command football wise? I thought Hasslam was bowing out but it sure doesn't seem that way if he can't let the GM crew make decisions on their own. Randy was slow to act and Jimmy too fast. At least Randy didn't meddle. Jimmy wants to be like Jerry.
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says a youngin with all the time in the world hoping to see change during his lifetime in a constant suck team.
remember this when ur my age and the browns still haven't won shitthen you'll be the old blowhard, with a dope flying car.
there's the 'let's stay the course' people and then there's the 'let's make a change' people. and the people have spoken.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Conversely, you were at least alive to see years of good Browns play. I was born in 89, for the most part I've only seen sorrow.
I've seen 4 winning seasons in my entire life.
Conversely, you were at least alive to see years of good Browns play. I was born in 89, for the most part I've only seen sorrow.
I've seen 4 winning seasons in my entire life.
Bummer! I graduated high school in '85 and got to enjoy all of the 80s teams.... I thought I was a gluten for punishment, but all you know is misery.
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Conversely, you were at least alive to see years of good Browns play. I was born in 89, for the most part I've only seen sorrow.
I've seen 4 winning seasons in my entire life.
Bummer! I graduated high school in '85 and got to enjoy all of the 80s teams.... I thought I was a gluten for punishment, but all you know is misery.
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Please remember that the argument is not meant to be a coaches are only good if the y are successful in their first year and fire them otherwise but using tom landry and chuck noll as a reason not to fire Hue Jackson because they also started poorly is silly and has been mentioned about 2000 times now.
Front office could be changed instead of Hue Jax as mud pointed out aswell and would still satisfy the point of the speculation here.
- Please remember that the argument is not meant to be a coaches are only good if the y are successful in their first year and fire them otherwise but
- using tom landry and chuck noll as a reason not to fire Hue Jackson because they also started poorly is silly and has been mentioned about 2000 times now.
- Front office could be changed instead of Hue Jax as mud pointed out aswell and would still satisfy the point of the speculation here.
Part one was fully understood I assure you.
Part two is not silly...
Part three... Huh?
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