Who takes the fall?

Unsympathetic

Landry had a losing record his first 4 seasons - and he was already a defensive genius with NYG. You may remember him inventing the concept of the MLB with Sam Huff.

And you guys would want him fired.

And they had more rounds in the draft those years.

miktoxic

dude, what is it that you people don't get? ok, there might be some people on here that just want hue fired to have him fired. i'm not one. i knew at the beginning of the season that this was going to be 0 and 16. no doubt in my mind. as i said in another post, i don't care if they tank it next year as well AS LONG AS I SEE IMPROVEMENT. on paper and on the field.

what some of you pacifists don't get is what business model hires a CEO who for the first half of the year has zilch to show for his work except for cashing his checks? what business doesn't strive for perfection in all of it's employees? sure there are ups and downs and growing pains along the way (hence a one year pass, maybe two tops). but for 'you' to sit back and just say "hey we all knew it. take it easy." fuck 'you'!

blatant bad coaching on both sides of the ball. bad decision making from the start with the FO (and owner it seems now IMO). if there were stock holders with a board that made decisions how do you think that would be going for everyone involved right now? there's a demand for doing it right and the foot up the ass is getting bigger and going higher with every loss. believe that pal.

Tour2ma

@cainedesoulis said:

Firstly i took Rex Ryan out in an edit because he failed to meet the .500 requirement

Secondly i looked at the initial head coaching job of each coach as the metric as more than a few of these coaches have/had been in the league for many years.

Thirdly your using opinions to belittle facts... seriously your biggest arguement is...meh... the FACT is that each of these coaches improved the team they coached and are some of the best coaches the Nfl has seen

I'm surprised tour i expected more of a counter argument than "I dont agree with your facts because i don't FEEL like it supports my argument"

I'm disappointed your not trying to generate a list of coaches that did poorly in comparison to years prior only to go on to become great coaches in the league.

Coaches that do poorly initially Historically will NOT go on to become great coaches. But that's not saying that it cant happen. Just that it is less likely to happen.

Right.... I am so ashamed for having chosen to interpret facts differently than you...

You seriously want credit for citing a HC that took a team from 7-9 to 8-8? You maintain that circumstance is germane to a discussion of Hue?

CaineDeSoulis

Please remember that the argument is not meant to be a coaches are only good if the y are successful in their first year and fire them otherwise but using tom landry and chuck noll as a reason not to fire Hue Jackson because they also started poorly is silly and has been mentioned about 2000 times now.

Front office could be changed instead of Hue Jax as mud pointed out aswell and would still satisfy the point of the speculation here.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@miktoxic said:

says a youngin with all the time in the world hoping to see change during his lifetime in a constant suck team.

remember this when ur my age and the browns still haven't won shitthen you'll be the old blowhard, with a dope flying car.

there's the 'let's stay the course' people and then there's the 'let's make a change' people. and the people have spoken.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Conversely, you were at least alive to see years of good Browns play. I was born in 89, for the most part I've only seen sorrow.

I've seen 4 winning seasons in my entire life.

tiamat63

@cainedesoulis said:

Please remember that the argument is not meant to be a coaches are only good if the y are successful in their first year and fire them otherwise but using tom landry and chuck noll as a reason not to fire Hue Jackson because they also started poorly is silly and has been mentioned about 2000 times now.

Front office could be changed instead of Hue Jax as mud pointed out aswell and would still satisfy the point of the speculation here.

Your argument is that you know what you have within one year. Does that NOT imply a winning team? Because that is exactly where you were heading and in such case, Landry and Noll are great examples.

CaineDeSoulis

Im not going to spend the time analyzing the pro and cons or record differences of front office change and how it relates to first year coaches or second year coaches aswell.

We can all admit we are a bit off the rails currently as a team whether that be an over reliance on analytics for player acquisition or over reliance on coaching in that case. Horrible luck or poor coaching or a dearth of talent. Doing this poorly I can guarantee is NOT part of the plan.

Unless we win some games soon changes are coming i don't know who but if we go 0-16 it could be anybody. I still prefer New DC and a true OC.

Tia both our points can be true

flyingfooldoug

It seems that if Horton goes, it should be Hue that pulls that trigger. But if it's the HC that goes, that one is or should be on the GM. OK except we don't have a real GM. It's a triad there. Depo, Shashi and Jimmy. I can't help but wonder who is making decisions? Right now we're the worst at everything, from blocking to drafting. Is there improvement? Do you really have to go backwards to go forward? Never had to pre 99.

CaineDeSoulis

No you don't flying. I believe the only safe spot in the building will be depo and haslem but that being said i Highly Highly doubt a full reset would happen. If HC goes for example that will be it FO safe. Probably have a little bit of each for changes. Couple of coaches here maybe sashi brown. Hell maybe Al Saunders gets to be HC and Hue Jax is the OC hell i dont know. If i did i wouldn't be here with you glorious bastards suffering another crap season arguing for things that wont matter in 3 years hoping for another win.

flyingfooldoug

I'm not saying we axe or don't axe anyone. What's the chain of command football wise? I thought Hasslam was bowing out but it sure doesn't seem that way if he can't let the GM crew make decisions on their own. Randy was slow to act and Jimmy too fast. At least Randy didn't meddle. Jimmy wants to be like Jerry.

D Bone

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Conversely, you were at least alive to see years of good Browns play. I was born in 89, for the most part I've only seen sorrow.

I've seen 4 winning seasons in my entire life.

Bummer! I graduated high school in '85 and got to enjoy all of the 80s teams.... I thought I was a gluten for punishment, but all you know is misery.

tiamat63

@d-bone said:

I thought I was a gluten

You're a grain based protein?

Tour2ma

@cainedesoulis said:
Please remember that the argument is not meant to be a coaches are only good if the y are successful in their first year and fire them otherwise but

using tom landry and chuck noll as a reason not to fire Hue Jackson because they also started poorly is silly and has been mentioned about 2000 times now.

Front office could be changed instead of Hue Jax as mud pointed out aswell and would still satisfy the point of the speculation here.

Part one was fully understood I assure you.

Part two is not silly...

Part three... Huh?

Tour2ma

@cainedesoulis said:

Im not going to spend the time analyzing the pro and cons or record differences of front office change and how it relates to first year coaches or second year coaches aswell.

We can all admit we are a bit off the rails currently as a team whether that be an over reliance on analytics for player acquisition or over reliance on coaching in that case. Horrible luck or poor coaching or a dearth of talent. Doing this poorly I can guarantee is NOT part of the plan.

Unless we win some games soon changes are coming i don't know who but if we go 0-16 it could be anybody. I still prefer New DC and a true OC.

Tia both our points can be true

And I am certainly not going to waste time checking the 6 or 8 HCs that you added to your original list after i began an examination of your original 14(?).

But yes, we can agree on rails and not as bad... and even on the need for an OC.

D Bone

@tiamat63 said:
You're a grain based protein?

LOL!!

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:

Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5

Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5

George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1

Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0

Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0

Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1

Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0

Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5

Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0

Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points

Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0

Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0

Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0

John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1

So I'll give you 4 of 14...

Rebuttle?

What exactly is it that you are trying to evidence here?

Tour2ma

@cainedesoulis said:
How ABOUT the successful coaches who flourished early and maintained a good record throughout their career.

@tour2ma said:
How long is that list?

You're welcome... now try to keep up...

CaineDeSoulis

only 3 more games until we have lost every game including our friendlies....0 and 17 including those at this point...

any indictment of RG3 is an indictment of our head coach as the reports from preseason and camp season of Jackson's complete infatuation and focus on proving himself correct about rg3 and NEGLECT of the rest of our team has become painfully evident. Hopefully in his second season he becomes Humbled by this and leads a better team next year.

Is RG3 the person who takes the fall lol

Dawgs89

Haslam is stuck between a rock and hard place. On one hand, how can you bring back the coach who presided over a complete losing season ( Including preseason). On the other, Hue gets fired and that's four coaches gassed in a five year period. Would almost be to the point where the league would have to step in.

Vagitron

Why in the HELL would you fire hue jackson? Some of you act like the Browns were/are really on the verge of a super bowl. The team still needs to recover from the Farmer era. Firing Jackson just screams "more of the same please" and the factory of sadness remains open for another 2-3 seasons at least. The browns NEED continuity to turn the corner. As an outsider im always shocked by this from the Browns base. Yes the team has had bad coaches, i wouldnt label jackson as a bad coach considering the qb revolving door and the injuries.

Get a damn grip doom and gloomer coach firing bridage. Fire jackson and enjoy more mediocrity.