what we really need here again is a stud offensive tackle or a new cornerback

Mudfly

well....in Gips defense......if you make the Pro-Bowl, then you are Pro-Bowl caliber.....simple....

Tour2ma

@mudfly said:
well....in Gips defense......if you make the Pro-Bowl, then you are Pro-Bowl caliber.....simple....

Canton Dawg

@baconhound said:
I know you meant the TE and he's sucked every year but one in a 9 year career. Not even as good as Pro Bowler Jordan Cameron.

Jordan who??

BaconHound

@mudfly said:
well....in Gips defense......if you make the Pro-Bowl, then you are Pro-Bowl caliber.....simple....

Awesome, Derek Anderson Pro-Bowl caliber QB, too easy Mud

Mudfly

yep....lots of one year wonders.....including Anderson.....but Probowl is Probowl.....

Just confirms that Pro Bowl caliber and HOF caliber are different levels......and adds light to the reason that so many are described as "multiple" or 'perennial" .....

BaconHound

@mudfly said:

yep....lots of one year wonders.....including Anderson.....but Probowl is Probowl.....

Just confirms that Pro Bowl caliber and HOF caliber are different levels......and adds light to the reason that so many are described as "multiple" or 'perennial" .....

We will disagree on that one, caliber to me suggests more than a one hit wonder. I'd say by your definition using the term "pro-bowl caliber" is meaningless to evaluate a players talent.

Mudfly

Ok....Ill agree to disagree....no biggie....

So....IF you make the Pro Bowl and are, in fact, a Pro Bowl player.....but not considered Pro Bowl caliber?......what makes one Pro Bowl caliber?

Canton Dawg

@baconhound said:
We will disagree on that one, caliber to me suggests more than a one hit wonder. I'd say by your definition using the term "pro-bowl caliber" is meaningless to evaluate a players talent.

To put things into perspective, Derek Anderson is a Pro Bowl QB.

hoorta

@mudfly said:

Ok....Ill agree to disagree....no biggie....

So....IF you make the Pro Bowl and are, in fact, a Pro Bowl player.....but not considered Pro Bowl caliber?......what makes one Pro Bowl caliber?

Difference between "making" the Pro Bowl and playing in it. After 5 QBs bail with phantom injuries.

BaconHound

@mudfly said:

Ok....Ill agree to disagree....no biggie....

So....IF you make the Pro Bowl and are, in fact, a Pro Bowl player.....but not considered Pro Bowl caliber?......what makes one Pro Bowl caliber?

I'd say multiple Pro Bowls or a single Pro Bowl and then a consistency where the drop off isn't significant.

The Gipper

@baconhound said:

Awesome, Derek Anderson Pro-Bowl caliber QB, too easy Mud

Barnidge remains serviceable, if not Pro Bowl caliber. Which is a lot more than we can say for a lot of Browns players.

Tour2ma

Barn is a nice player, but he's not a big enough receiving threat to overlook his blocking deficiencies.

flyingfooldoug

To go back to the op. Every successful Browns team fielded had a pretty damn good O line that played as a in sync unit. Good D line too. Until they start winning at the line of scrimmage, the suck will continue.

Tour2ma

... and a good Offense.... and a good Defense. Lines are a part of both... no doubt about it... but they are not key to the exclusion of the other pieces.

Our dearly departed Ghoulster took it to an extreme, but OLs can and have been built mining the depths of draft. On a shear number of positions basis, five, they are the largest group in any draft. Most fall away as undersized, athletically limited, but there's always a handful of diamonds in the rough even extending into the UDFA pool. Small school players... late bloomers... position moves... etc...

Sometimes you have spend high for them, especially for foundational LTs and Edge kings, but often they can be high value picks. Day 2 is target rich with them.