Why we need a QB in Top 5

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:

2-3-4 here... with Ryan and Luck as my "2", and only because "Matty Ice" finally won me over this year.

So, you don't think Newton and Stafford are bona fide?

Obviously...

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

I'm sure you were trolling, but... OL is not only not high on my list of our needs, it's near the bottom.

LT is clearly set.

LG is set if Bito can get and stay healthy.

C is looking up with Reiter and Fabs competing, and only gets better if and when a healthy Greco returns.

RG has Paz and Drango competing, again with Greco lurking.

RT has Shon, Paz and even, yes, Cam in the mix.

That's four interior and four OT in the mix with one swing man... OK, three OTs... and Cam.

Only one left out was Bailey, who did some good work at RG, but stands to be the odd man out.

I still want a RT or OC taken high. Elflein, Ramczyk perhaps at top/mid 2d round.

jrb12711

@tour2ma said:

Sanchez is not a bust?

I'm talking literally taken with the first overall pick in the draft like the guys I've noted. The Sanchize was drafted 5th that year, but did actually go to two AFC championship games..

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Obviously...

What is your criteria then. Must they have won a Super Bowl?

The Gipper

@jrb12711 said:

I'm talking literally taken with the first overall pick in the draft like the guys I've noted. The Sanchize was drafted 5th that year, but did actually go to two AFC championship games..

My post upon which this discussion revolves listed those taken in the Top 5. Here they are:

2016: QBs taken #1 and #2...Goff/Wentz

2015: QBs taken #1 and #2...Winston/Mariota

2014: QB taken #3...Bortles

2013: none taken top 5

2012: QBs taken #1 and #2 Luck/Griffin

2011: QB taken #1 Newton

2010: QB taken #1 Bradford

2009: QB taken #1 and #5 Stafford/Sanchez

2008: QB taken #3 Matt Ryan

2007: QB taken #1: Russell

So, give the hits and misses from this bunch.

The Gipper

If we go back another 10 years and look at the QBs taken in the Top 5 you have this list:

2006 Vince Young #3

2005 Alex Smith #1

2004 Eli Manning #1, Phillip Rivers #4

2003 Carson Palmer #1

2002 David Carr #1, Joey Harrington #3

2001 Michael Vick #1

2000 none

1999 Tim Couch #1, Donovan McNabb #2, Akili Smith #3

1998 Peyton Manning #1, Ryan Leaf #2

Here, it is definitely hit or miss. Major quality QBs, major busts.

Zombo

My post upon which this discussion revolves listed those taken in the Top 5. Here they are:

2016: QBs taken #1 and #2...Goff/Wentz Too Early

2015: QBs taken #1 and #2...Winston/Mariota Hitting ... Hitting

2014: QB taken #3...Bortles Missing

2013: none taken top 5

2012: QBs taken #1 and #2 Luck/Griffin Hit/Miss

2011: QB taken #1 Newton Hit

2010: QB taken #1 Bradford Missing

2009: QB taken #1 and #5 Stafford/Sanchez Hit/Miss

2008: QB taken #3 Matt Ryan Hit

2007: QB taken #1: Russell Miss

Mark O

Zombo said:

My post upon which this discussion revolves listed those taken in the Top 5. Here they are:

2016: QBs taken #1 and #2...Goff/Wentz Too Early

2015: QBs taken #1 and #2...Winston/Mariota Hitting ... Hitting

2014: QB taken #3...Bortles Missing

2013: none taken top 5

2012: QBs taken #1 and #2 Luck/Griffin Hit/Miss

2011: QB taken #1 Newton Hit

2010: QB taken #1 Bradford Missing

2009: QB taken #1 and #5 Stafford/Sanchez Hit/Miss

2008: QB taken #3 Matt Ryan Hit

2007: QB taken #1: Russell Miss

I'd go with that ranking as well. Except I'd say Bortles and Bradford are misses.

Zombo

@mark-o said:

I'd go with that ranking as well. Except I'd say Bortles and Bradford are misses.

Ya, Bradford is no #1 overall in worth, but he can start a season for ya.

Bortles looks like just a guy as well.

Zombo

Mark O

Zombo said:

Ya, Bradford is no #1 overall in worth, but he can start a season for ya.

Bortles looks like just a guy as well.

Zombo

Look what the Vikings gave up for him thinking they had a "super bowl team" and what did that get them? The same thing as the Browns, sitting at home watching the playoffs, except the draft picks they gave up for him.

Bortles isn't even just a guy...he just plain sucks.

The Gipper

@ghoolie said:

I always have to laugh my ass off when someone blasts the Steelers by saying shit like.......... "Well, without Ben and Brown, they are pedestrian". What the Fuck does that mean? The Steelers suck dick because if you take their best players away they are not as good? So, what the fuck would the Browns have been without Jim Brown?

Well, that is sort of my point Ghoolie.....that the difference between the teams talent wise is merely a matter of 3-4 quality impact players.

I mean, yes, that is important, and makes all the difference......but the other point is that the gap between them, talentwise, is not all that great.

The Steelers are one of the best teams of 2016. Even in the SB years, the Steelers weren't blowing the Browns out. Division games are always tough. The Steelers played lesser players, the game had little meaning. It was th SB for the Browns, and even with Tom Selleck at QB, when it mattered, the Steelers do what they always do............they fuck the Browns right in the pussy.

Or, as often or not, like this past week....it is the Browns fucking themselves with stupid as shit mistakes and decisions.

I am not a huge fan of Tomlin, but I also would not be surprised to see the Steelers in the show, or at least the AFC championship game. I don't care if you hate the fuckers, but for the love of God people, their level of talent, intensity, aggression, discipline and execution is in a different league than the Browns.

Except, that on Sunday...it was not.....except for the discipline and execution part. The Browns matched...no...exceeded... the Steelers in talent, intensity, and aggression....but fucked up in discipline and execution.

This conversation is like listening to a guy making fun of the way your wife looks when he is with Whoopie GoldTurd. Get over it already. The Steelers are good team. They have a great culture and rabid fans. How the fuck do you knock down the team that spanks you every fucking year? It is like a Michigan fan shouting that Ohio State sucks.

Well, OK, but if you saw that Ohio State/Michigan game you would have to say that Michigan was just about every bit Ohio State's equal in that game.

And it took fuckups by Michigan to win.

Again, take BR, Brown, Bell....off the Steelers and on the Browns and which team do you think generally wins?

Moronic.

The Gipper

@ghoolie said:
He was trolling. Everyone knows my feeling on OL men. Dime-a-dozen. Most SB winners wind up winning with a makeship OL with a lot of starters hurt. The OL is however vitally important. Ours sucks. At the same time, I don't any other team has given more draft and FA attention to the OL, as the Browns have. But that doesn't mean shit. there is adequate talent, there is no leadership.

And we can say also that no team has done what you have wanted and given more draft and FA attention to offensive skill players than the Browns. And that hasn't meant shit either. The talent they have gotten at those skill positions has NOT been adequate.

tiamat63

Had to go back and watch Rodgers at Cal to refesh myself.

I have no clue how you're drawing this comparison, Gip.

hoorta

@tour2ma said:

I'm sure you were trolling, but... OL is not only not high on my list of our needs, it's near the bottom.

LT is clearly set.

LG is set if Bito can get and stay healthy.

C is looking up with Reiter and Fabs competing, and only gets better if and when a healthy Greco returns.

RG has Paz and Drango competing, again with Greco lurking.

RT has Shon, Paz and even, yes, Cam in the mix.

That's four interior and four OT in the mix with one swing man... OK, three OTs... and Cam.

Only one left out was Bailey, who did some good work at RG, but stands to be the odd man out.

Greco at center? Maybe Tour. But it's mighty dangerous to rely on Reiter or Fabulous Fabio after one game auditions for the position. It's why I want either Elflin or Pocic in the second round- if either is there.

Tour2ma

So much for Ghoolie talking football... and it's not even a full moon.

@hoorta said:
Greco at center? Maybe Tour. But it's mighty dangerous to rely on Reiter or Fabulous Fabio after one game auditions for the position. It's why I want either Elflin or Pocic in the second round- if either is there.

Although we cannot depend on Greco returning to form, at a casual glance both "the kids" looked promising to me, h. May change my tune after I grade Fabs and scout your two studlies...

I will say that I watched Elflein in a couple games, not religiously, but with periods of focus and I was not overly impressed. I saw "good" with a couple flaws. Again, however, my tune may change...

tiamat63

@ghoolie said:

How do any of you know if this is a weak QB draft class or not?

I mean, most of you garlic gonad garglers thought RG3 was a GREAT signing for us. Seriously, if you thought that, then what the fuck do you know about who is a good QB in this draft or not?

You should probably go back and read my camps notes about Robert then.

Tour2ma

@tiamat63 said:
You should probably go back and read my camps notes about Robert then.

Meh... it has to be "most" tia. The "man" simply can't feel good enough about himself if the truth was most were skeptics.

hoorta

@tour2ma said:

Meh... it has to be "most" tia. The "man" simply can't feel good enough about himself if the truth was most were skeptics.

I was strongly in the "Never Robert " camp, especially at the asking price. I do remember a few guys (some that are regulars on the other board) were saying he was going to set the league on fire. He did for a year, and then flamed out like Derek Anderson, once defensive coordinators got some tape on him. I hope since Hue sent Horton packing, he's going to realize that earth moving when he worked out Griffin was a garbage truck dumping a load right behind him. He might be OK as a backup, but that's about it, IMHO.

Tour2ma

You're preaching to the choir, h... while simultaneously supporting the point I made that you quoted.

And with that... I'm done talking about Ghoolie as well as reading him...

The Gipper

@tiamat63 said:

Had to go back and watch Rodgers at Cal to refesh myself.

I have no clue how you're drawing this comparison, Gip.

I didn't see videos of Rodgers at Cal. I compare him to what Rodgers does today.

I don't see how you can't see it. Perhaps you just don't want to see it.