This is not the year for a #1 Qb pick
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@boo-radley said:
Pats want a 1st and another relatively high pick.
Asking ain't getting...
@boo-radley said:
There must be a franchise QB in this draft that people are over looking.
Russell Wilson was passed over.
More than likely there is. May well be Trubs... may be Kelly... may be Dobbs... or ???
Few drafts go by without at least one emerging.
@boo-radley said:
There must be a franchise QB in this draft that people are over looking.
Not necessarily...
Few drafts go by without at least one emerging.
Every few....to be exact....
5 times in the last 15 drafts there have been zero franchise qb's....which is once every 3 drafts.....33%.....once every few....
2013-10-7-6-2.....plus a few years where the franchise QB might be considered questionable......2011-5-3....
Based on the above....Id say we are due to have a no franchise draft.....
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If we don't take Trubisky #1 overall, we will regret it. We didn't tank this season to draft a DL #1. The common denominator on all final 4 teams is a great QB. I cant name one DL on any of the final 4 teams. Stop with the only one season of play BS, it's not his fault that Marquise was lights out playing QB for UNC until he graduated. If MT played a few more seasons he would have been hands down consensus #1 overall pick. I base this opinion on watching this kid grow up from the time he was 6yrs old. He will become the next best QB in the NFL, not his rookie year but in the future. If it happens on someone else's team, I'll be sick. If we pass on MT watch the stoolers jump up and take him #2 then we will live in football misery for another decade.
We did not tank for a DL best QB available has been the plan all along.
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If we don't take Trubisky #1 overall, we will regret it. We didn't tank this season to draft a DL #1. The common denominator on all final 4 teams is a great QB. I cant name one DL on any of the final 4 teams. Stop with the only one season of play BS, it's not his fault that Marquise was lights out playing QB for UNC until he graduated. If MT played a few more seasons he would have been hands down consensus #1 overall pick. I base this opinion on watching this kid grow up from the time he was 6yrs old. He will become the next best QB in the NFL, not his rookie year but in the future. If it happens on someone else's team, I'll be sick. If we pass on MT watch the stoolers jump up and take him #2 then we will live in football misery for another decade.
We did not tank for a DL best QB available has been the plan all along.
If we don't take Trubisky #1 overall, we will regret it. We didn't tank this season to draft a DL #1. The common denominator on all final 4 teams is a great QB. I cant name one DL on any of the final 4 teams. Stop with the only one season of play BS, it's not his fault that Marquise was lights out playing QB for UNC until he graduated. If MT played a few more seasons he would have been hands down consensus #1 overall pick. I base this opinion on watching this kid grow up from the time he was 6yrs old. He will become the next best QB in the NFL, not his rookie year but in the future. If it happens on someone else's team, I'll be sick. If we pass on MT watch the stoolers jump up and take him #2 then we will live in football misery for another decade.
We did not tank for a DL best QB available has been the plan all along.
I suppose it's possible Joe Thomas knows less than football fans... But I'd like to think a Left Tackle protecting the blind side of QB after his 10th consecutive Pro Bowl might know more than some may want to give him credit for. Remember, he's the guy that has had to face many a Pro Bowl edge rusher twice a year from AFC North opponents frequenting playoffs so I'm guessing he understands their value.
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If we don't take Trubisky #1 overall, we will regret it. We didn't tank this season to draft a DL #1. The common denominator on all final 4 teams is a great QB. I cant name one DL on any of the final 4 teams. Stop with the only one season of play BS, it's not his fault that Marquise was lights out playing QB for UNC until he graduated. If MT played a few more seasons he would have been hands down consensus #1 overall pick. I base this opinion on watching this kid grow up from the time he was 6yrs old. He will become the next best QB in the NFL, not his rookie year but in the future. If it happens on someone else's team, I'll be sick. If we pass on MT watch the stoolers jump up and take him #2 then we will live in football misery for another decade.
We did not tank for a DL best QB available has been the plan all along.
We did not tank for a DL best QB available has been the plan all along.
The only reason we tanked is because the team sucked.....it was not the plan....
Hence, all the changes that are happening now(which dont happen when you are successful in executing your plan)....
No one plans to tank for an "unknown yet to be named player"....which is what you're kind of suggesting happened.....
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@boo-radley said:
There must be a franchise QB in this draft that people are over looking.
Not necessarily...
Few drafts go by without at least one emerging.
Every few....to be exact....
5 times in the last 15 drafts there have been zero franchise qb's....which is once every 3 drafts.....33%.....once every few....
2013-10-7-6-2.....plus a few years where the franchise QB might be considered questionable......2011-5-3....
Based on the above....Id say we are due to have a no franchise draft.....
Beat me to it... but wait... there's more...
Not necessarily... Every few....to be exact....
5 times in the last 15 drafts there have been zero franchise qb's....which is once every 3 drafts.....33%.....once every few....
Facts.... facts... facts... didn't you get the latest memo, Mr. buzzkill?
I would not have put the percentage anywhere near that high...
If we don't take Trubisky #1 overall, we will regret it. We didn't tank this season to draft a DL #1. The common denominator on all final 4 teams is a great QB. I cant name one DL on any of the final 4 teams.
Can you name all four starting QBs? Remember... honor system...
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I like Mitch, but i feel like he is a project, and he only started what, 13 games?
Take an Elite player like Allen or Garrett. Take Hooker, Foster, or anyone who falls at us at 12....
MY biggest fear is that we take watson at #1 since hue really likes him..........
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Certainly there's no QB in this draft worth the #1 pick, and maybe #12 is forcing it as well. If they don't go with Myles with the first pick, we'll be hearing all of the fans saying the Browns blew it again. With a dwindling fan base, they cannot afford to screw up again.
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i have a feeling mitch is going to come in undersized at the combine with an average athletic score. That being said he still is the most pro ready qb right now which is fine. i just think we need to focus on getting the D fixed up add a new solving the C situation an grabbing Webb/Mahomes in round 2-3. My preference is webb as his arm is the best in class and he has the prototypical size you want. I still attest that Kessler played very well for his rookie year and if he can improve his arm velocity and most importantly his throwing base in the offseason aswell as hitting the weightroom to add some strength/athleticism he can be the franchise guy. Guys like Webb have the physical advantage he wont have though.
Garrett at 1 and hope for foster or a top flight DB/S at 12
I've said I'm not averse to Garret @ #1, though I won't love it. Regarding Mitch coming in "undersized" at the combine- where's that coming from? Reference please? All I've heard is vague reference to a Tweet, which is complete BS, unless he was in the NC locker room when he got measured. 6' 1" may be a tad undersized if it's true, but hardly a disqualifier.
I've said I'm not averse to Garret @ #1, though I won't love it. Regarding Mitch coming in "undersized" at the combine- where's that coming from? Reference please? All I've heard is vague reference to a Tweet, which is complete BS, unless he was in the NC locker room when he got measured. 6' 1" may be a tad undersized if it's true, but hardly a disqualifier.
considering he was 6'3" 195 when he left high school I doubt he shrunk to 6'1"
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I've said I'm not averse to Garret @ #1, though I won't love it. Regarding Mitch coming in "undersized" at the combine- where's that coming from? Reference please? All I've heard is vague reference to a Tweet, which is complete BS, unless he was in the NC locker room when he got measured. 6' 1" may be a tad undersized if it's true, but hardly a disqualifier.
considering he was 6'3" 195 when he left high school I doubt he shrunk to 6'1"
considering he was 6'3" 195 when he left high school I doubt he shrunk to 6'1"
According to who?
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I've said I'm not averse to Garret @ #1, though I won't love it. Regarding Mitch coming in "undersized" at the combine- where's that coming from? Reference please? All I've heard is vague reference to a Tweet, which is complete BS, unless he was in the NC locker room when he got measured. 6' 1" may be a tad undersized if it's true, but hardly a disqualifier.
considering he was 6'3" 195 when he left high school I doubt he shrunk to 6'1"
considering he was 6'3" 195 when he left high school I doubt he shrunk to 6'1"
And he likely ran a 4.45 40 as well-the usual recruit inflation factor.
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considering he was 6'3" 195 when he left high school I doubt he shrunk to 6'1"
According to who?
According to who?
My son was his teammate in high school dont be an ass
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I'm just hoping we can land Webb at some point in this draft he could sneak into the first round.
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I've said I'm not averse to Garret @ #1, though I won't love it. Regarding Mitch coming in "undersized" at the combine- where's that coming from? Reference please? All I've heard is vague reference to a Tweet, which is complete BS, unless he was in the NC locker room when he got measured. 6' 1" may be a tad undersized if it's true, but hardly a disqualifier.
I'm not in love with what I've seen on film from Garrett; and I'm afraid most of it will get written off to the ankle injury. Just to illustrate how far away from the draft we are, he lasted less than 1 week on my wish list at #1 overall. Not only that, I haven't seen enough of Nate Orchard (IR in 2016) to totally write him off just yet. Hopefully, Gregg Williams will have a better place for him than Horton seemed to envision.
As I just wrote to the other visitor (Gips) I had here in Nashville last October, the only question I have about Trubisky is the body of work (not to be confused with the body of the player). Love the build, arm strength and the elusiveness it equips him with behind a suspect protection upfront. If for some reason he is slightly under 6'2" - Warren Moon was only 6' like Brees while Russell Wilson is 5'11". Another guy that made Pro Bowls for 3 different play off teams (Garcia) was only 6' as well. He'll be ite.
When Oakland drafted Derek Carr near the top of round 2, they protected the investment by improving their offensive line and later adding WR Amari Cooper in round 1 as well as former 1st round WR Michael Crabtree via free agency. They also drafted Khalil Mack in round 1 to improve their edge rush the same year they took Carr in round 2. We could have drafted both guys in that 2014 draft. We can do something similar to what Oakland did, with our choice being edge rusher #1 and QB at #12 vrs QB #1 and edge rusher at #12. Since the draft seems deeper at edge rusher than QB, it encourages me to keep more of an open mind about Trubisky at #1.
I'm not in love with what I've seen on film from Garrett; and I'm afraid most of it will get written off to the ankle injury. Just to illustrate how far away from the draft we are, he lasted less than 1 week on my wish list at #1 overall. Not only that, I haven't seen enough of Nate Orchard (IR in 2016) to totally write him off just yet. Hopefully, Gregg Williams will have a better place for him than Horton seemed to envision.
As I just wrote to the other visitor (Gips) I had here in Nashville last October, the only question I have about Trubisky is the body of work (not to be confused with the body of the player). Love the build, arm strength and the elusiveness it equips him with behind a suspect protection upfront. If for some reason he is slightly under 6'2" - Warren Moon was only 6' like Brees while Russell Wilson is 5'11". Another guy that made Pro Bowls for 3 different play off teams (Garcia) was only 6' as well. He'll be ite.
When Oakland drafted Derek Carr near the top of round 2, they protected the investment by improving their offensive line and later adding WR Amari Cooper in round 1 as well as former 1st round WR Michael Crabtree via free agency. They also drafted Khalil Mack in round 1 to improve their edge rush the same year they took Carr in round 2. We could have drafted both guys in that 2014 draft. We can do something similar to what Oakland did, with our choice being edge rusher #1 and QB at #12 vrs QB #1 and edge rusher at #12. Since the draft seems deeper at edge rusher than QB, it encourages me to keep more of an open mind about Trubisky at #1.
Not arguing Tom, I'll be nice. I think it was Tour that posted the draft breakdown on Garrett, and there is reason for concern. Myles is relying on his superior athleticism- it was pointed out if a tackle is fast enough to his hands on him, Garrett had better learn some technique to disengage from a block. Sometimes those physical freaks don't work out. Since my memory is fading- probably due to excessive wine consumption. I had to look it up- Vernon Gholston came to mind. Resorting to Wiki, since 2007 when the Jets drafted Darrell Revis, their first round track record has been as bad as the Browns.
I suppose it's possible Joe Thomas knows less than football fans... But I'd like to think a Left Tackle protecting the blind side of QB after his 10th consecutive Pro Bowl might know more than some may want to give him credit for. Remember, he's the guy that has had to face many a Pro Bowl edge rusher twice a year from AFC North opponents frequenting playoffs so I'm guessing he understands their value.
I totally respect Joe's opinion- but I sort of disagree.
Beat me to it... but wait... there's more...
Facts.... facts... facts... didn't you get the latest memo, Mr. buzzkill?
I would not have put the percentage anywhere near that high...
Can you name all four starting QBs? Remember... honor system...
How about every one of them? Cook, Osweiler. Stafford, Wilson. Moore, Rothlisbooger. Manning, Rodgers. Ryan, Brady. Prescott, Smith. Ignoring the injuries, 8\12 drafted in the first or second round. You want long term success? Better draft a QB high. Or if you want to follow the Brady path, keep trading down until you have every pick in the 6th round a couple years running- you're going to hit on one eventually.
I'm just hoping we can land Webb at some point in this draft he could sneak into the first round.
From the other thread, I know you like the guy- but if you read Cal's post on his weaknesses, have to ask- what are you smoking? How about the Washington path- draft Trubisky #1, and Webb in the 4th round.
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Kizer Watson and Trubisky are all going in the top of the 1st and mid its not impossible he jumps into the 28-32 range its unlikely of course . and depends on the combine and interviews. but he's been mocked in rounds 2-3 most of the year only falling this past couple of weeks.
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I've said I'm not averse to Garret @ #1, though I won't love it. Regarding Mitch coming in "undersized" at the combine- where's that coming from? Reference please? All I've heard is vague reference to a Tweet, which is complete BS, unless he was in the NC locker room when he got measured. 6' 1" may be a tad undersized if it's true, but hardly a disqualifier.
considering he was 6'3" 195 when he left high school I doubt he shrunk to 6'1"
considering he was 6'3" 195 when he left high school I doubt he shrunk to 6'1"
And I was 6'6", 320 and ran a 4.85 in high school.
It's crazy how everyone is bigger in high school than in college, and how they're bigger in college than the NFL.
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I'm not in love with what I've seen on film from Garrett; and I'm afraid most of it will get written off to the ankle injury. Just to illustrate how far away from the draft we are, he lasted less than 1 week on my wish list at #1 overall. Not only that, I haven't seen enough of Nate Orchard (IR in 2016) to totally write him off just yet. Hopefully, Gregg Williams will have a better place for him than Horton seemed to envision.
As I just wrote to the other visitor (Gips) I had here in Nashville last October, the only question I have about Trubisky is the body of work (not to be confused with the body of the player). Love the build, arm strength and the elusiveness it equips him with behind a suspect protection upfront. If for some reason he is slightly under 6'2" - Warren Moon was only 6' like Brees while Russell Wilson is 5'11". Another guy that made Pro Bowls for 3 different play off teams (Garcia) was only 6' as well. He'll be ite.
When Oakland drafted Derek Carr near the top of round 2, they protected the investment by improving their offensive line and later adding WR Amari Cooper in round 1 as well as former 1st round WR Michael Crabtree via free agency. They also drafted Khalil Mack in round 1 to improve their edge rush the same year they took Carr in round 2. We could have drafted both guys in that 2014 draft. We can do something similar to what Oakland did, with our choice being edge rusher #1 and QB at #12 vrs QB #1 and edge rusher at #12. Since the draft seems deeper at edge rusher than QB, it encourages me to keep more of an open mind about Trubisky at #1.
Not arguing Tom, I'll be nice. I think it was Tour that posted the draft breakdown on Garrett, and there is reason for concern. Myles is relying on his superior athleticism- it was pointed out if a tackle is fast enough to his hands on him, Garrett had better learn some technique to disengage from a block. Sometimes those physical freaks don't work out. Since my memory is fading- probably due to excessive wine consumption. I had to look it up- Vernon Gholston came to mind. Resorting to Wiki, since 2007 when the Jets drafted Darrell Revis, their first round track record has been as bad as the Browns.
I suppose it's possible Joe Thomas knows less than football fans... But I'd like to think a Left Tackle protecting the blind side of QB after his 10th consecutive Pro Bowl might know more than some may want to give him credit for. Remember, he's the guy that has had to face many a Pro Bowl edge rusher twice a year from AFC North opponents frequenting playoffs so I'm guessing he understands their value.
I totally respect Joe's opinion- but I sort of disagree.
Beat me to it... but wait... there's more...
Facts.... facts... facts... didn't you get the latest memo, Mr. buzzkill?
I would not have put the percentage anywhere near that high...
Can you name all four starting QBs? Remember... honor system...
How about every one of them? Cook, Osweiler. Stafford, Wilson. Moore, Rothlisbooger. Manning, Rodgers. Ryan, Brady. Prescott, Smith. Ignoring the injuries, 8\12 drafted in the first or second round. You want long term success? Better draft a QB high. Or if you want to follow the Brady path, keep trading down until you have every pick in the 6th round a couple years running- you're going to hit on one eventually.
I'm just hoping we can land Webb at some point in this draft he could sneak into the first round.
From the other thread, I know you like the guy- but if you read Cal's post on his weaknesses, have to ask- what are you smoking? How about the Washington path- draft Trubisky #1, and Webb in the 4th round.
Not arguing Tom, I'll be nice. I think it was Tour that posted the draft breakdown on Garrett, and there is reason for concern. Myles is relying on his superior athleticism- it was pointed out if a tackle is fast enough to his hands on him, Garrett had better learn some technique to disengage from a block. Sometimes those physical freaks don't work out. Since my memory is fading- probably due to excessive wine consumption. I had to look it up- Vernon Gholston came to mind. Resorting to Wiki, since 2007 when the Jets drafted Darrell Revis, their first round track record has been as bad as the Browns.
Thanks, I appreciate the kinder, gentler Hoorta. He's a good guy that made some good points above. We're not enemies and never have been. We're just not used to being on different sides of a debate until the last 5 months or so...
For what it's worth, it's okay to disagree about a prospect especially in nit-pick season. This won't be exclusive to fans on message boards. Scouts and front offices do this as well.
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@ghoolie said:
TD, are you stupid? Don't you understand that the Fake Browns have only been playing since 1999. It is just not the right time yet to use #1 #1 for a QB.
Yes, we all know that the Browns are in the worst shape of all 32 teams at QB, and yes, we know how important the QB is. But you have to look at reality, With Hue and the rest of the cocksuckers we have, it is not as if the 2018, 2019, 2020, etc. Browns are going to be strangers to the #1 #1 pick. Remember also that the Browns have no interest in winning football games. Didn't you get the message? We are building for the future. We are amassing draft picks so that come 2563 the Browns will have 132 #1 #1 picks and will be able to draft everyone. Of course, they will cut the best players and keep the shit ones.
No NFL team needs a QB more than the Browns. No team is in better position to draft a high QB prospect than the Browns. No team is more stupid that the Browns on passing up great future players. We had the #2 and #32 pick over all and look at what we wound up with. SHIT............. PURE SHIT...........
I would not be surprised at all to see these jackoffs draft a DL at #1 #1. they really are that fucking stupid.
And this year's Tony Grossi Award goes to...
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According to who?
My son was his teammate in high school dont be an ass
My son was his teammate in high school dont be an ass
I'm not. But HS measurements are inflated just as much as college ones.
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Cowherd has the best takes on Andrew Luck. Not given near enough credit. Meanwhile, the media fawns all over Cam Newton. Start at 17:00. He does a hilarious bit at 19:10 about "how Colts radio guys SHOULD call Andrew Luck plays."
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I'm not in love with what I've seen on film from Garrett; and I'm afraid most of it will get written off to the ankle injury. Just to illustrate how far away from the draft we are, he lasted less than 1 week on my wish list at #1 overall. Not only that, I haven't seen enough of Nate Orchard (IR in 2016) to totally write him off just yet. Hopefully, Gregg Williams will have a better place for him than Horton seemed to envision.
As I just wrote to the other visitor (Gips) I had here in Nashville last October, the only question I have about Trubisky is the body of work (not to be confused with the body of the player). Love the build, arm strength and the elusiveness it equips him with behind a suspect protection upfront. If for some reason he is slightly under 6'2" - Warren Moon was only 6' like Brees while Russell Wilson is 5'11". Another guy that made Pro Bowls for 3 different play off teams (Garcia) was only 6' as well. He'll be ite.
When Oakland drafted Derek Carr near the top of round 2, they protected the investment by improving their offensive line and later adding WR Amari Cooper in round 1 as well as former 1st round WR Michael Crabtree via free agency. They also drafted Khalil Mack in round 1 to improve their edge rush the same year they took Carr in round 2. We could have drafted both guys in that 2014 draft. We can do something similar to what Oakland did, with our choice being edge rusher #1 and QB at #12 vrs QB #1 and edge rusher at #12. Since the draft seems deeper at edge rusher than QB, it encourages me to keep more of an open mind about Trubisky at #1.
Not arguing Tom, I'll be nice. I think it was Tour that posted the draft breakdown on Garrett, and there is reason for concern. Myles is relying on his superior athleticism- it was pointed out if a tackle is fast enough to his hands on him, Garrett had better learn some technique to disengage from a block. Sometimes those physical freaks don't work out. Since my memory is fading- probably due to excessive wine consumption. I had to look it up- Vernon Gholston came to mind. Resorting to Wiki, since 2007 when the Jets drafted Darrell Revis, their first round track record has been as bad as the Browns.
I suppose it's possible Joe Thomas knows less than football fans... But I'd like to think a Left Tackle protecting the blind side of QB after his 10th consecutive Pro Bowl might know more than some may want to give him credit for. Remember, he's the guy that has had to face many a Pro Bowl edge rusher twice a year from AFC North opponents frequenting playoffs so I'm guessing he understands their value.
I totally respect Joe's opinion- but I sort of disagree.
Beat me to it... but wait... there's more...
Facts.... facts... facts... didn't you get the latest memo, Mr. buzzkill?
I would not have put the percentage anywhere near that high...
Can you name all four starting QBs? Remember... honor system...
How about every one of them? Cook, Osweiler. Stafford, Wilson. Moore, Rothlisbooger. Manning, Rodgers. Ryan, Brady. Prescott, Smith. Ignoring the injuries, 8\12 drafted in the first or second round. You want long term success? Better draft a QB high. Or if you want to follow the Brady path, keep trading down until you have every pick in the 6th round a couple years running- you're going to hit on one eventually.
I'm just hoping we can land Webb at some point in this draft he could sneak into the first round.
From the other thread, I know you like the guy- but if you read Cal's post on his weaknesses, have to ask- what are you smoking? How about the Washington path- draft Trubisky #1, and Webb in the 4th round.
How about every one of them? Cook - R4, Osweiler - R2.25, Stafford - R1.01, Wilson - R 3.11, Moore - UDFA , Rothlisbooger - R1.11, Manning - R.01, Rodgers - R1.24. Ryan - R1.03, Brady - R6, Prescott - R4, Smith - R1.01.
Ignoring the injuries, 8\12 drafted in the first or second round. You want long term success? Better draft a QB high. Or if you want to follow the Brady path, keep trading down until you have every pick in the 6th round a couple years running- you're going to hit on one eventually.
First... are you in the habit of taking other people's tests for them?
Second and once again... your logic is bass-ackwards. Drafting QBs high is not causation; it's effect.
Plus don't think I did not see what you did there.... adding the late-firsts and 2nd round picks to pump up your percentage. Who here is arguing about spending our #12 on a QB let alone pick 2.01? To your credit you stuck with the backups forced into starting roles. I free you of that restriction thus letting Tannehill (R1.08) and Carr (R2.04) join the party.
You had three, #1 overall picks, that's 3/12 for those keeping score at home, get in the playoffs... none are left... and all took years to develop.
Top half of the first or better? Brings the running tally to 5/12 thanks to Tannehill... you're welcome...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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