QB Questions
-
@ghoolie said:
Out of your fucking mind. We already have Black Tarkenton. Watson is shit, pure shit.
I'd be ecstatic with a QB who frequents Pro Bowls and wins Conference Championships like Tarkenton did during his Hall of Fame career just like I'm ecstatic to have a LT who made 10 consecutive Pro Bowls.
-
Flug, it's been a long time, but I hope our FO knows something we don't. As in pick #1, Gregg Williams should know his missing piece in his 4-3 front & he must pick a STARTER in Garrett or Allen. 31st in total defense.31st against rush.21st against pass..My question at Pick #12 has always been "can we afford a luxury pick" as in OJ Howard or Rubin Foster if say they know Crow is likely moving on & Fournette is still on board? Also could still see a Mitch at #12. The Loser of Hooker & Adams at S/FS. all at #12. may i raise you a Dramon Williams for a missing Joe Haden? Pick #12 & #33..we can't miss..Do we feel LUCKY or Luxury?
Flug, it's been a long time, but I hope our FO knows something we don't. As in pick #1, Gregg Williams should know his missing piece in his 4-3 front & he must pick a STARTER in Garrett or Allen. 31st in total defense.31st against rush.21st against pass..My question at Pick #12 has always been "can we afford a luxury pick" as in OJ Howard or Rubin Foster if say they know Crow is likely moving on & Fournette is still on board? Also could still see a Mitch at #12. The Loser of Hooker & Adams at S/FS. all at #12. may i raise you a Dramon Williams for a missing Joe Haden? Pick #12 & #33..we can't miss..Do we feel LUCKY or Luxury?
Interesting Gumby! Totally agree about #1 overall. #12 is going to be really interesting in terms of who is still there. If somehow Foster is still there to my surprise, I could be just as happy with us taking him as I would be with OJ Howard. I'd even be surprised if Foster slid down as far as #10. I think O.J. Howard is going to be the offensive star of round 1.
You kind of caught me off guard about Crow. Are you hearing/reading he wants to leave? I'm still not a big fan of going running back in round 1. As for Mitch, his experience volume keeps me thinking he should be drafted in an equitable draft slot to that of Derek Carr in round 2. I'd be far more excited about getting him in round 2 than at #12 overall. I don't think we're any more ready for him than LA was for Jared Goff; while this fan base and perhaps Joe Thomas will be a lot less patient with another rookie QB than LA. It's kind of like a little kid wanting a puppy mentality all the way up until he realizes part of the deal is making sure he always takes the puppy outside when he wakes up, after school and before bedtime regardless of the weather outside. Sometimes, especially in Cleveland, the reality isn't always as wonderful as the idea...
After learning about Hooker's 2 different injuries and watching Lorenzo Jerome at the Senior Bowl, I get the feeling we can land a terrific Safety up near the top of round 2 should that be necessary. There's a lot of guys at #12 I could really dig. Like I said though, I really miss having an elite TE here for the length of time Ozzie Newsome spoiled us with. We never frequented the playoffs as often as we did in the 80s enjoying his important dynamic to our passing game. I have a feeling Howard could really jumper cable our passing out of park mode...
-
Flug, it's been a long time, but I hope our FO knows something we don't. As in pick #1, Gregg Williams should know his missing piece in his 4-3 front & he must pick a STARTER in Garrett or Allen. 31st in total defense.31st against rush.21st against pass..My question at Pick #12 has always been "can we afford a luxury pick" as in OJ Howard or Rubin Foster if say they know Crow is likely moving on & Fournette is still on board? Also could still see a Mitch at #12. The Loser of Hooker & Adams at S/FS. all at #12. may i raise you a Dramon Williams for a missing Joe Haden? Pick #12 & #33..we can't miss..Do we feel LUCKY or Luxury?
Interesting Gumby! Totally agree about #1 overall. #12 is going to be really interesting in terms of who is still there. If somehow Foster is still there to my surprise, I could be just as happy with us taking him as I would be with OJ Howard. I'd even be surprised if Foster slid down as far as #10. I think O.J. Howard is going to be the offensive star of round 1.
You kind of caught me off guard about Crow. Are you hearing/reading he wants to leave? I'm still not a big fan of going running back in round 1. As for Mitch, his experience volume keeps me thinking he should be drafted in an equitable draft slot to that of Derek Carr in round 2. I'd be far more excited about getting him in round 2 than at #12 overall. I don't think we're any more ready for him than LA was for Jared Goff; while this fan base and perhaps Joe Thomas will be a lot less patient with another rookie QB than LA. It's kind of like a little kid wanting a puppy mentality all the way up until he realizes part of the deal is making sure he always takes the puppy outside when he wakes up, after school and before bedtime regardless of the weather outside. Sometimes, especially in Cleveland, the reality isn't always as wonderful as the idea...
After learning about Hooker's 2 different injuries and watching Lorenzo Jerome at the Senior Bowl, I get the feeling we can land a terrific Safety up near the top of round 2 should that be necessary. There's a lot of guys at #12 I could really dig. Like I said though, I really miss having an elite TE here for the length of time Ozzie Newsome spoiled us with. We never frequented the playoffs as often as we did in the 80s enjoying his important dynamic to our passing game. I have a feeling Howard could really jumper cable our passing out of park mode...
You kind of caught me off guard about Crow. Are you hearing/reading he wants to leave? I'm still not a big fan of going running back in round 1.
Ecstatic we got a GM that worked a Collins deal perfectly & got a 4 year deal done on the Proven player in Collins. For months during the season they worked on a Pryor deal, but as late as it is, it is more than likely we use the franchise tag on Pryor shortly. A 1 year Cousins "prove it again tag". Soon after Collins deal was done. SB moved to a Crow deal that broke down quickly per cleveland.com. Crow is a Restricted FA. Crow will be given a draft tender value as Tashawn Gipson was & we can match any teams offer. As far down as we were in games Crow on Avg. got about 13 carries per game averaging over 4.5 yrds. per carry. Did the coaches get the right evaluation they were after? Crows 24 years young & not a NFL beat up RB. But he's not a L.McCoy RB either. If we build'em, let's start keep'em..(duke still gets killed running anywhere between tackles)
-
To be fair McNabb,McNair did NOT throw double digit interceptions on one of the top college teams in football for 2 consecutive years. and Moon was kinda like finding a winning lottery ticket on the ground.
Watson does not compare to these QB's
Fair enough. How many of those QBs were capable of beating the #1 ranked defense of all time the way Watson did that? In 2 Championship games vrs that Alabama defense about to stockpile the first 2 rounds of the NFL draft - how many points did the Clemson Offense average under Watson's leadership? In order to compete in 2 consecutive National Championship Games, he had to do things like light up Ohio State's defense for 31 points or whatever he did to their playoff opponent last year.
All the while McNabb's teams either tied for 1st place finishes in the Big East or finished as a close runner-up to Miami/Va Tech - it was because he could not BEAT those teams in the Big Games in conference.
I don't remember Clemson competing for National Championships back when Boyd QB'd them. They had the strong defenses back then with 1st round WRs like Sammy Watkins and DeAndre Hopkins. Interestingly enough, the Clemson WR that scored 4 TDs vrs Alabama in the last 2 National Championship Games was Renfrow.
Prior to a HOF career with 4 SB wins, Montana had a 52% completion rate his JR year with 11 TD passes to 8 INTs while sporting a 54% completion rate with 10 TD Passes to 9 INTs his final year at ND. Not exactly the kind of passing numbers advertising the NFL greatness to follow from him. On the opposite extreme, you can see a Russell Wilson's nice completion % nit-picked all the way down to dink and donksies.
I'm not advocating for us to take Watson at #1 overall or even #12 overall. I'm just saying if he goes to the right situation like Montana did back when all the same questions were being asked by the NFL scouts - someone could have the same type of steal on their hands. You can't be a trainwreck at QB to beat Ohio State by 31 points before being the only QB capable of beating that Bama D. Above all, when Watson's margin of error was all the way down to 1 error = Bama wins, who stopped him from driving his team the length of the field for the go ahead score? That doesn't sound like the loser I keep seeing portrayed.
Fair enough. How many of those QBs were capable of beating the #1 ranked defense of all time the way Watson did that? In 2 Championship games vrs that Alabama defense about to stockpile the first 2 rounds of the NFL draft - how many points did the Clemson Offense average under Watson's leadership? In order to compete in 2 consecutive National Championship Games, he had to do things like light up Ohio State's defense for 31 points or whatever he did to their playoff opponent last year.
All the while McNabb's teams either tied for 1st place finishes in the Big East or finished as a close runner-up to Miami/Va Tech - it was because he could not BEAT those teams in the Big Games in conference.
I don't remember Clemson competing for National Championships back when Boyd QB'd them. They had the strong defenses back then with 1st round WRs like Sammy Watkins and DeAndre Hopkins. Interestingly enough, the Clemson WR that scored 4 TDs vrs Alabama in the last 2 National Championship Games was Renfrow.
Prior to a HOF career with 4 SB wins, Montana had a 52% completion rate his JR year with 11 TD passes to 8 INTs while sporting a 54% completion rate with 10 TD Passes to 9 INTs his final year at ND. Not exactly the kind of passing numbers advertising the NFL greatness to follow from him. On the opposite extreme, you can see a Russell Wilson's nice completion % nit-picked all the way down to dink and donksies.
I'm not advocating for us to take Watson at #1 overall or even #12 overall. I'm just saying if he goes to the right situation like Montana did back when all the same questions were being asked by the NFL scouts - someone could have the same type of steal on their hands. You can't be a trainwreck at QB to beat Ohio State by 31 points before being the only QB capable of beating that Bama D. Above all, when Watson's margin of error was all the way down to 1 error = Bama wins, who stopped him from driving his team the length of the field for the go ahead score? That doesn't sound like the loser I keep seeing portrayed.
Yeah Tom - Watson no higher than second round- you know how I feel about him. You're totally in love with his playoff run- he wasn't so hot before that. And I will say this- Clemson only won that game against 'Bama because they ran a pick play- for the second time- that didn't get called. Put Trubisky on that Clemson team- he'd beat 'Bama too.
I appreciate your statistical comparison above Caine. You did a great job with your argument! The only thing I'll nit-pick somewhat is those stats above reflect Boyd's JR and SR year up against Watson's SOPH and JR year.
Despite our debate here - I don't think we're really that far apart. I want us using our #1 on the best Defensive Player of this draft and our #12 on O.J. Howard. I don't want any of this year's QBs up in either of our first 2 picks.
I really don't think Watson is getting overhyped all the way up to either of our first 2 draft spots. I could very well be wrong about that; but I see him getting pushed down to either round 2 or 3 where I'd find him intriguing enough for temptation. Not too much different than I now feel about Webb.
If anything looked overhyped in the last 2 Championship Games vrs Alabama - Clemson's defense gave up 45 points when Watson was a Soph (that led his offense 40 points). This last year when Watson was a Junior, Bama scored 31 points which put the pressure on Watson to lead his offense to more than 31 points vrs the highest ranked college football defense of all time (according to ESPN radio the day after). He led his offense to 35 points which was good enough to beat Bama. To average 36 points against that defense under his leadership when he was just a soph and junior QB seems like an unparalleled accomplishment worthy of praise IMO.. As much credit as Clemson's defense has received/deserved for all their other work - they didn't give their QB very much room for error vrs Alabama in the last 2 National Championship Games their defense surrendered 76 points in.
Dabo thinks he's the second coming- miss that one? Not accurate deep, and he's another helicopter McCown.
-
You know who else had a lot of interceptions in his last season? Jameis Winston. More than Watson to be exact, and that was with one less game. Watson also threw for 16 more TDs. And whaddya know, Watson had a better completion percentage too over 110 more passes.
All this statistical analysis means nothing sometimes.
-
Fair enough. How many of those QBs were capable of beating the #1 ranked defense of all time the way Watson did that? In 2 Championship games vrs that Alabama defense about to stockpile the first 2 rounds of the NFL draft - how many points did the Clemson Offense average under Watson's leadership? In order to compete in 2 consecutive National Championship Games, he had to do things like light up Ohio State's defense for 31 points or whatever he did to their playoff opponent last year.
All the while McNabb's teams either tied for 1st place finishes in the Big East or finished as a close runner-up to Miami/Va Tech - it was because he could not BEAT those teams in the Big Games in conference.
I don't remember Clemson competing for National Championships back when Boyd QB'd them. They had the strong defenses back then with 1st round WRs like Sammy Watkins and DeAndre Hopkins. Interestingly enough, the Clemson WR that scored 4 TDs vrs Alabama in the last 2 National Championship Games was Renfrow.
Prior to a HOF career with 4 SB wins, Montana had a 52% completion rate his JR year with 11 TD passes to 8 INTs while sporting a 54% completion rate with 10 TD Passes to 9 INTs his final year at ND. Not exactly the kind of passing numbers advertising the NFL greatness to follow from him. On the opposite extreme, you can see a Russell Wilson's nice completion % nit-picked all the way down to dink and donksies.
I'm not advocating for us to take Watson at #1 overall or even #12 overall. I'm just saying if he goes to the right situation like Montana did back when all the same questions were being asked by the NFL scouts - someone could have the same type of steal on their hands. You can't be a trainwreck at QB to beat Ohio State by 31 points before being the only QB capable of beating that Bama D. Above all, when Watson's margin of error was all the way down to 1 error = Bama wins, who stopped him from driving his team the length of the field for the go ahead score? That doesn't sound like the loser I keep seeing portrayed.
Yeah Tom - Watson no higher than second round- you know how I feel about him. You're totally in love with his playoff run- he wasn't so hot before that. And I will say this- Clemson only won that game against 'Bama because they ran a pick play- for the second time- that didn't get called. Put Trubisky on that Clemson team- he'd beat 'Bama too.
I appreciate your statistical comparison above Caine. You did a great job with your argument! The only thing I'll nit-pick somewhat is those stats above reflect Boyd's JR and SR year up against Watson's SOPH and JR year.
Despite our debate here - I don't think we're really that far apart. I want us using our #1 on the best Defensive Player of this draft and our #12 on O.J. Howard. I don't want any of this year's QBs up in either of our first 2 picks.
I really don't think Watson is getting overhyped all the way up to either of our first 2 draft spots. I could very well be wrong about that; but I see him getting pushed down to either round 2 or 3 where I'd find him intriguing enough for temptation. Not too much different than I now feel about Webb.
If anything looked overhyped in the last 2 Championship Games vrs Alabama - Clemson's defense gave up 45 points when Watson was a Soph (that led his offense 40 points). This last year when Watson was a Junior, Bama scored 31 points which put the pressure on Watson to lead his offense to more than 31 points vrs the highest ranked college football defense of all time (according to ESPN radio the day after). He led his offense to 35 points which was good enough to beat Bama. To average 36 points against that defense under his leadership when he was just a soph and junior QB seems like an unparalleled accomplishment worthy of praise IMO.. As much credit as Clemson's defense has received/deserved for all their other work - they didn't give their QB very much room for error vrs Alabama in the last 2 National Championship Games their defense surrendered 76 points in.
Dabo thinks he's the second coming- miss that one? Not accurate deep, and he's another helicopter McCown.
Yeah Tom - Watson no higher than second round- you know how I feel about him. You're totally in love with his playoff run- he wasn't so hot before that. And I will say this- Clemson only won that game against 'Bama because they ran a pick play- for the second time- that didn't get called. Put Trubisky on that Clemson team- he'd beat 'Bama too.
Very interesting since I seem to remember a "Fail for Cardale" chorus in harmony back when he was only 3 starts old punctuating a playoff run. A bigger body of work took care of that one. Which guy in this debate keeps cautioning why a small body of work may be telling us more than you want it to?
I'm not totally in love with anyone I want us to wait until round 2 to consider taking. I believe I posted the same thing about where I'd prefer us to take Trubisky in round 2 when I compared him to Derek Carr. So please inform me how I'm being unfair to 1 of those guys only. If you want to take that as a personal insult, that's a guilt trip I'm not taking. I'm just merely trying to encourage people to keep more of an open mind about Watson if he falls where I expect him to. Expecting Watson to fall out of round 1 means I'm cognizant of imperfections.
If Trubisky didn't choose Ohio State because he didn't think he was as good as Barrett, you don't have to blame Watson, me or Barrett for that one. In fact, he didn't even beat out whoever played QB at North Carolina - which confined him to only starting 1 year in the ACC. I have zero to do with all that. I'm just the one willing to wonder how any QB that will be the answer to all our prayers could possibly be held hostage to such things I mentioned. You're stuck on pause with he's from Mentor, Ohio so you're here to slap a tuxedo and cologne on his shit after you give it a thorough polish.
-
Personally I was underwhelmed by Winston's progress in 2016.
But back on Crow... just feels like he is going to negotiate his way into a cheap tender. One that I pray someone will beat, but we will not match as the whole RFA tender thing just seems to create too many ego bruises.
Add that while I like Crow, he is far from irreplaceable. I can see at least three Crow-ish RBs in this draft spread out in rounds 3 thru 6.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You know who else had a lot of interceptions in his last season? Jameis Winston. More than Watson to be exact, and that was with one less game. Watson also threw for 16 more TDs. And whaddya know, Watson had a better completion percentage too over 110 more passes.
All this statistical analysis means nothing sometimes.
You know who else had a lot of interceptions in his last season? Jameis Winston. More than Watson to be exact, and that was with one less game. Watson also threw for 16 more TDs. And whaddya know, Watson had a better completion percentage too over 110 more passes.
All this statistical analysis means nothing sometimes.
EJ Manuel last two years of college
*2011 Florida State ACC JR QB 12 203 311 65.3 2666 8.6 8.6 18 8 151.2
*2012 Florida State ACC SR QB 14 263 387 68.0 3397 8.8 8.8 23 10 156.1
Jameis Winston last tyo years of college
*2013 Florida State ACC FR QB 14 257 384 66.9 4057 10.6 11.5 40 10 184.8
*2014 Florida State ACC SO QB 13 305 467 65.3 3907 8.4 7.7 25 18 145.5
Here you can see a dramatic increase in several key statistics from Manuel to Winston.
-
Personally I was underwhelmed by Winston's progress in 2016.
But back on Crow... just feels like he is going to negotiate his way into a cheap tender. One that I pray someone will beat, but we will not match as the whole RFA tender thing just seems to create too many ego bruises.
Add that while I like Crow, he is far from irreplaceable. I can see at least three Crow-ish RBs in this draft spread out in rounds 3 thru 6.
Personally I was underwhelmed by Winston's progress in 2016.
But back on Crow... just feels like he is going to negotiate his way into a cheap tender. One that I pray someone will beat, but we will not match as the whole RFA tender thing just seems to create too many ego bruises.
Add that while I like Crow, he is far from irreplaceable. I can see at least three Crow-ish RBs in this draft spread out in rounds 3 thru 6.
Here's the problem I see with losing somebody like Crow. We've invested 3 years in training him so that RB is one of the few strengths we have on offense. Giving him up not only means we make another cupboard bare; but someone else gets to celebrate his experience and talent while we create 1 more need to fill by an inexperienced rookie. If he can average 4.8 yards per carry here, I'll bet there's a lot of places he can probably average somewhere between 5 and 6 yards a carry. In fact, when both our Guards were healthy - he had a stretch of games he averaged about 6.4 yards a carry.
If this organization wants players to buy into Cleveland is going to change for the better, actions speak louder than words. Commit to those that have worked hard here like Crow. That seems like a better bridge to continuity than showing players they're just a number the FO can easily replace.
This FO has some ideal opportunities this off season to make believers out of critics and people on wait and see mode. Well, here's that juicy pitch to our FO in the batter's box. If they let Crow go, they watched a perfect strike go over the plate without even swinging at it IMO.
-
You know who else had a lot of interceptions in his last season? Jameis Winston. More than Watson to be exact, and that was with one less game. Watson also threw for 16 more TDs. And whaddya know, Watson had a better completion percentage too over 110 more passes.
All this statistical analysis means nothing sometimes.
EJ Manuel last two years of college
*2011 Florida State ACC JR QB 12 203 311 65.3 2666 8.6 8.6 18 8 151.2
*2012 Florida State ACC SR QB 14 263 387 68.0 3397 8.8 8.8 23 10 156.1
Jameis Winston last tyo years of college
*2013 Florida State ACC FR QB 14 257 384 66.9 4057 10.6 11.5 40 10 184.8
*2014 Florida State ACC SO QB 13 305 467 65.3 3907 8.4 7.7 25 18 145.5
Here you can see a dramatic increase in several key statistics from Manuel to Winston.
EJ Manuel last two years of college
*2011 Florida State ACC JR QB 12 203 311 65.3 2666 8.6 8.6 18 8 151.2
*2012 Florida State ACC SR QB 14 263 387 68.0 3397 8.8 8.8 23 10 156.1
Jameis Winston last tyo years of college
*2013 Florida State ACC FR QB 14 257 384 66.9 4057 10.6 11.5 40 10 184.8
*2014 Florida State ACC SO QB 13 305 467 65.3 3907 8.4 7.7 25 18 145.5
Here you can see a dramatic increase in several key statistics from Manuel to Winston.
And you can see a dramatic increase in several key statistics from Winston to Watson. So?
-
Personally I was underwhelmed by Winston's progress in 2016.
But back on Crow... just feels like he is going to negotiate his way into a cheap tender. One that I pray someone will beat, but we will not match as the whole RFA tender thing just seems to create too many ego bruises.
Add that while I like Crow, he is far from irreplaceable. I can see at least three Crow-ish RBs in this draft spread out in rounds 3 thru 6.
Personally I was underwhelmed by Winston's progress in 2016.
But back on Crow... just feels like he is going to negotiate his way into a cheap tender. One that I pray someone will beat, but we will not match as the whole RFA tender thing just seems to create too many ego bruises.
Add that while I like Crow, he is far from irreplaceable. I can see at least three Crow-ish RBs in this draft spread out in rounds 3 thru 6.
Nevertheless, he's a no-doubt franchise QB.
-
Different offenses for one war. You need to find the players that elevated their program not just mantained it.
-
Winning a national championship isn't elevating? Are you aware FSU is the winningestprogram in the country over the last 30 years?
-
Clemson Defense
Using Football outsiders for the years Deshaun Watson and Tahj Boyd* played for Clemson
2016 (14-1) Ranked 6th in Defense
2015 (14-1) Ranked 6th in Defense
2014 (10-3) Ranked 1st in Defense
2013 (11-2) Ranked 12th in Defense
2012 (11-2) Ranked 34th in Defense
And yes of course clemson's offense was actually more effective 2013-2012 both being ranked higher than the last 2 years. -
Clemson Defense
Using Football outsiders for the years Deshaun Watson and Tahj Boyd* played for Clemson
2016 (14-1) Ranked 6th in Defense
2015 (14-1) Ranked 6th in Defense
2014 (10-3) Ranked 1st in Defense
2013 (11-2) Ranked 12th in Defense
2012 (11-2) Ranked 34th in Defense
And yes of course clemson's offense was actually more effective 2013-2012 both being ranked higher than the last 2 years.Clemson Defense
Using Football outsiders for the years Deshaun Watson and Tahj Boyd* played for Clemson
2016 (14-1) Ranked 6th in Defense
2015 (14-1) Ranked 6th in Defense
2014 (10-3) Ranked 1st in Defense
2013 (11-2) Ranked 12th in Defense
2012 (11-2) Ranked 34th in Defense
And yes of course clemson's offense was actually more effective 2013-2012 both being ranked higher than the last 2 years.
Are you aware Clemson went from being the 2nd or 3rd best team in a weaker ACC (w/ Boyd) to the best team in a stronger ACC (w/ Watson the last 2 years)? This gave them the opportunity to participate in the last 2 National Championship Games making them #2 in the Country last year and #1 this year. I'm not sold Boyd would have been able to erase a 21 point deficit against this year's Alabama team especially if he was just a JR.
Here's another thing to consider when people want to race to the conclusion Clemson's defense had to drag Watson through the last 2 National Championship Games. In their first matchup, Alabama scored 45 points while Clemson scored 40 points. Who kept that game competitive Clemson's QB or their defense? In their second matchup, Alabama scored 31 points which raised the challenge for Clemson's offense to beat that point total against the most dominant defense in college football. They scored 35 points inclusive of erasing a 21 point deficit. Clemson's Defense gave up 76 points in those 2 games to Alabama, which is asking a lot of their QB and his offense. They scored 75 points in 2 matchups vrs an Alabama defense ready to stockpile the first few rounds of the NFL draft. Watson went 28-2 as a QB in his Soph & Jr year. The only times he lost were 45-40 to Bama as a soph and 43-42 to Pitt as a Jr for those thinking a dominating defense carried Watson.
Believe it or not, the ACC had the best out of conference record and Bowl record by a huge margin. I think North Carolina was one of the only ACC teams that lost their Bowl Game so we gotta give Gipper some props for defending the strength of the ACC. When Boyd was playing QB at Clemson in the ACC, the ACC didn't do nearly as well outside of conference or in Bowl season. Don't listen to your buddy Flugel - just Google...
-
FSU's total D in 2013 was #3. In 2012 it was 2. 2011 it was 4. Not sure why any of that matters.
-
FSU's total D in 2013 was #3. In 2012 it was 2. 2011 it was 4. Not sure why any of that matters.
FSU's total D in 2013 was #3. In 2012 it was 2. 2011 it was 4. Not sure why any of that matters.
It doesn't too much but I appreciate you getting us that info War. FSU owned that conference until Watson was a soph and jr.
The reason I brought up the drastic improvement in the ACC out of conference record and Bowl record in 2016 is because I wanted to show Caine that Watson did take that team to another level if we factor in the conference opponents were stronger.
-
FSU's total D in 2013 was #3. In 2012 it was 2. 2011 it was 4. Not sure why any of that matters.
It doesn't too much but I appreciate you getting us that info War. FSU owned that conference until Watson was a soph and jr.
The reason I brought up the drastic improvement in the ACC out of conference record and Bowl record in 2016 is because I wanted to show Caine that Watson did take that team to another level if we factor in the conference opponents were stronger.
It doesn't too much but I appreciate you getting us that info War. FSU owned that conference until Watson was a soph and jr.
The reason I brought up the drastic improvement in the ACC out of conference record and Bowl record in 2016 is because I wanted to show Caine that Watson did take that team to another level if we factor in the conference opponents were stronger.
That is not a statistically accurate statement it is an opinion. This is also why some draft sites have Watson as a high end QB and a lot of others have him in rounds 2-4. He's a good QB that played on a GREAT team. He faces the same stigma Alabama QB's face in that he doesn't HAVE to be good for his team to succeed. Like OSU QB's there has not been a good NFL QB prospect at OSU in over a decade.
My Point is if your going to look at an individual you cant look at win/loss/championships and TEAM stats to measure their performance. Watson was not a transformative player at HIS position for Clemson. Manziel was a transformative player at his position at Texas am as were Bortles,Carr,Luck,Winston,Lynch,Goff,Mariota,Wentz,Trubisky,Bridgewater,Griffin
-
It doesn't too much but I appreciate you getting us that info War. FSU owned that conference until Watson was a soph and jr.
The reason I brought up the drastic improvement in the ACC out of conference record and Bowl record in 2016 is because I wanted to show Caine that Watson did take that team to another level if we factor in the conference opponents were stronger.
That is not a statistically accurate statement it is an opinion. This is also why some draft sites have Watson as a high end QB and a lot of others have him in rounds 2-4. He's a good QB that played on a GREAT team. He faces the same stigma Alabama QB's face in that he doesn't HAVE to be good for his team to succeed. Like OSU QB's there has not been a good NFL QB prospect at OSU in over a decade.
My Point is if your going to look at an individual you cant look at win/loss/championships and TEAM stats to measure their performance. Watson was not a transformative player at HIS position for Clemson. Manziel was a transformative player at his position at Texas am as were Bortles,Carr,Luck,Winston,Lynch,Goff,Mariota,Wentz,Trubisky,Bridgewater,Griffin
That is not a statistically accurate statement it is an opinion. This is also why some draft sites have Watson as a high end QB and a lot of others have him in rounds 2-4. He's a good QB that played on a GREAT team. He faces the same stigma Alabama QB's face in that he doesn't HAVE to be good for his team to succeed. Like OSU QB's there has not been a good NFL QB prospect at OSU in over a decade.
That the team elevated to new heights during the time Watson was the starter is undeniable. We can argue about whether he was the cause of it or not (recruiting rankings say yes), but it is a fact.
-
That is not a statistically accurate statement it is an opinion. This is also why some draft sites have Watson as a high end QB and a lot of others have him in rounds 2-4. He's a good QB that played on a GREAT team. He faces the same stigma Alabama QB's face in that he doesn't HAVE to be good for his team to succeed. Like OSU QB's there has not been a good NFL QB prospect at OSU in over a decade.
That the team elevated to new heights during the time Watson was the starter is undeniable. We can argue about whether he was the cause of it or not (recruiting rankings say yes), but it is a fact.
That the team elevated to new heights during the time Watson was the starter is undeniable. We can argue about whether he was the cause of it or not (recruiting rankings say yes), but it is a fact.
While Watson was the starter Clemson did get better but it was not because of QB play as indicated by the stats. the biggest change during watsons tenure at clemson was the Defense. QB Play remained unchanged to slightly worse from the years prior.
If you can provide statistics otherwise let me know.If it pertains to QB play of course. ACC this and conference records! and Look at the alabama games! are not measurements of QB Play.
I'm not saying anything other draft experts are not saying about Watson. in all honesty i don't think he will be able to transfer well into the nfl but he has the potential too. if I were the browns i would go as high as the 1st pick in the 3rd round and see if he develops into a QB.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login