Analysis of the Hybrid LB/SS Role in Gregg Williams' D...
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Jabril wont be there at 12, but if he is.....garett/allen and peppers is a 1st round i could live with ie beat off all over myself
Jabril wont be there at 12, but if he is.....garett/allen and peppers is a 1st round i could live with ie beat off all over myself
All of the recent talk around Peppers is him falling in the draft. Most NFL DC's want a player that has a defined position. As a result, a player that could be a potential star like Peppers falls. Some mock drafts have him falling out of the 1st completely, which (and I may be biased) seems insane. He went from being mocked as a Top 5 pick to out of the 1st in a period of time where he didn't play a game. Whether this is legitimate or a smokescreen, we'll have to see. I expect him to tear up the combine.
If a creative, innovative NFL DC gets him, and uses him to his full potential, he'll be great. I've seen him mocked to the Pats a few times. That would be a hell of a landing spot for Peppers.
In college, you could say he was a LB/SS hybrid. He was used mainly as a LB, because there are a lot of spread offenses in CFB. I'm not sure if you'd say his position was a hybrid position, or if he just played a lot of positions. Most LB spots, Nickel, Outside CB, Deep Safety, etc. Basically everything at one point but DL. He doesn't have a ton of tape at Deep Safety, which is concerning to NFL Scouts that are projecting him to Safety. They think he'd have to just be an in the box SS.
With the right NFL DC, I think he could be Mark Barron or Deone Bucannon. With an average NFL DC, he's a SS. I hope he doesn't go somewhere where they try to cram a square peg in a round hole.
Unless talk on Peppers swings wildly leading up to the draft (so, swings back), or the current talk is all smokescreens, or the Browns fall in love, I think the only way we take him is if he's falling and we move back into the 1st. Or, I guess, we could take him at 33, but I still have a hard time thinking he drops out of the 1st completely. We'll see.
(Oh, I'd be ecstatic about a Garrent + Peppers 1st rd too)
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Id totally be okay with selecting Peppers with our 33rd pick.
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Watch like 25!dumbass teams will pass and he ends up late 1st round to some top 10 team. Oh dear god if he falls to the patriots
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Jabril wont be there at 12, but if he is.....garett/allen and peppers is a 1st round i could live with ie beat off all over myself
All of the recent talk around Peppers is him falling in the draft. Most NFL DC's want a player that has a defined position. As a result, a player that could be a potential star like Peppers falls. Some mock drafts have him falling out of the 1st completely, which (and I may be biased) seems insane. He went from being mocked as a Top 5 pick to out of the 1st in a period of time where he didn't play a game. Whether this is legitimate or a smokescreen, we'll have to see. I expect him to tear up the combine.
If a creative, innovative NFL DC gets him, and uses him to his full potential, he'll be great. I've seen him mocked to the Pats a few times. That would be a hell of a landing spot for Peppers.
In college, you could say he was a LB/SS hybrid. He was used mainly as a LB, because there are a lot of spread offenses in CFB. I'm not sure if you'd say his position was a hybrid position, or if he just played a lot of positions. Most LB spots, Nickel, Outside CB, Deep Safety, etc. Basically everything at one point but DL. He doesn't have a ton of tape at Deep Safety, which is concerning to NFL Scouts that are projecting him to Safety. They think he'd have to just be an in the box SS.
With the right NFL DC, I think he could be Mark Barron or Deone Bucannon. With an average NFL DC, he's a SS. I hope he doesn't go somewhere where they try to cram a square peg in a round hole.
Unless talk on Peppers swings wildly leading up to the draft (so, swings back), or the current talk is all smokescreens, or the Browns fall in love, I think the only way we take him is if he's falling and we move back into the 1st. Or, I guess, we could take him at 33, but I still have a hard time thinking he drops out of the 1st completely. We'll see.
(Oh, I'd be ecstatic about a Garrent + Peppers 1st rd too)
All of the recent talk around Peppers is him falling in the draft. Most NFL DC's want a player that has a defined position. As a result, a player that could be a potential star like Peppers falls. Some mock drafts have him falling out of the 1st completely, which (and I may be biased) seems insane. He went from being mocked as a Top 5 pick to out of the 1st in a period of time where he didn't play a game. Whether this is legitimate or a smokescreen, we'll have to see. I expect him to tear up the combine.
If a creative, innovative NFL DC gets him, and uses him to his full potential, he'll be great. I've seen him mocked to the Pats a few times. That would be a hell of a landing spot for Peppers.
In college, you could say he was a LB/SS hybrid. He was used mainly as a LB, because there are a lot of spread offenses in CFB. I'm not sure if you'd say his position was a hybrid position, or if he just played a lot of positions. Most LB spots, Nickel, Outside CB, Deep Safety, etc. Basically everything at one point but DL. He doesn't have a ton of tape at Deep Safety, which is concerning to NFL Scouts that are projecting him to Safety. They think he'd have to just be an in the box SS.
With the right NFL DC, I think he could be Mark Barron or Deone Bucannon. With an average NFL DC, he's a SS. I hope he doesn't go somewhere where they try to cram a square peg in a round hole.
Unless talk on Peppers swings wildly leading up to the draft (so, swings back), or the current talk is all smokescreens, or the Browns fall in love, I think the only way we take him is if he's falling and we move back into the 1st. Or, I guess, we could take him at 33, but I still have a hard time thinking he drops out of the 1st completely. We'll see.
(Oh, I'd be ecstatic about a Garrent + Peppers 1st rd too)
I don't think it matters whether the DC is great or average. The DC does not control how he plays, only when and where he plays.
If he is good in the role he is given it is because he is good. If he sucks in the role he is given it is because he sucks.
Don't start making excuses for his failure already...before he is drafted by blaming his performance on whatever DC he has.
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All of the recent talk around Peppers is him falling in the draft. Most NFL DC's want a player that has a defined position. As a result, a player that could be a potential star like Peppers falls. Some mock drafts have him falling out of the 1st completely, which (and I may be biased) seems insane. He went from being mocked as a Top 5 pick to out of the 1st in a period of time where he didn't play a game. Whether this is legitimate or a smokescreen, we'll have to see. I expect him to tear up the combine.
If a creative, innovative NFL DC gets him, and uses him to his full potential, he'll be great. I've seen him mocked to the Pats a few times. That would be a hell of a landing spot for Peppers.
In college, you could say he was a LB/SS hybrid. He was used mainly as a LB, because there are a lot of spread offenses in CFB. I'm not sure if you'd say his position was a hybrid position, or if he just played a lot of positions. Most LB spots, Nickel, Outside CB, Deep Safety, etc. Basically everything at one point but DL. He doesn't have a ton of tape at Deep Safety, which is concerning to NFL Scouts that are projecting him to Safety. They think he'd have to just be an in the box SS.
With the right NFL DC, I think he could be Mark Barron or Deone Bucannon. With an average NFL DC, he's a SS. I hope he doesn't go somewhere where they try to cram a square peg in a round hole.
Unless talk on Peppers swings wildly leading up to the draft (so, swings back), or the current talk is all smokescreens, or the Browns fall in love, I think the only way we take him is if he's falling and we move back into the 1st. Or, I guess, we could take him at 33, but I still have a hard time thinking he drops out of the 1st completely. We'll see.
(Oh, I'd be ecstatic about a Garrent + Peppers 1st rd too)
I don't think it matters whether the DC is great or average. The DC does not control how he plays, only when and where he plays.
If he is good in the role he is given it is because he is good. If he sucks in the role he is given it is because he sucks.
Don't start making excuses for his failure already...before he is drafted by blaming his performance on whatever DC he has.
I don't think it matters whether the DC is great or average. The DC does not control how he plays, only when and where he plays.
If he is good in the role he is given it is because he is good. If he sucks in the role he is given it is because he sucks.
Don't start making excuses for his failure already...before he is drafted by blaming his performance on whatever DC he has.
If the DC tells him to only play a certain way they might not be using his full ability. If an OC tells Brady to run read option on 50% of plays I'm pretty sure that's on the OC not making the best use of the talent.
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I don't think it matters whether the DC is great or average. The DC does not control how he plays, only when and where he plays.
If he is good in the role he is given it is because he is good. If he sucks in the role he is given it is because he sucks.
Don't start making excuses for his failure already...before he is drafted by blaming his performance on whatever DC he has.
If the DC tells him to only play a certain way they might not be using his full ability. If an OC tells Brady to run read option on 50% of plays I'm pretty sure that's on the OC not making the best use of the talent.
If the DC tells him to only play a certain way they might not be using his full ability. If an OC tells Brady to run read option on 50% of plays I'm pretty sure that's on the OC not making the best use of the talent.
There is a way big difference. A DB/LBs job is to cover/tackle. Now matter how you line up...you still have to stay with your receiver, break up passes and tackle him when he catches the ball. Real basic stuff.
A QBs job is way, way more complex.
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Oh god, Gipper is already going to drag this into some anti Michigan thread where he shows us how much he really "knows".
You didn't get what I said. Rigid, average DCs want players that have the regular, historic NFL roles. That's fine. That DC plays Peppers at SS and we're done with it. I still think he does well in that role. It just doesn't utilize his full potential.
A good, innovative DC understands the unique skill-set Peppers brings to the table, and uses that to its fullest. This is where those hybrid S/LB positions are coming from. Buccanon, Baron. Woodson was a great DB for the Packers, he won DPOY when they moved him all over and uses his full range of skills.
A DC that does this will get the most out of Peppers. I think Williams, given his history with Barron, can do this for Peppers. There are some other DCs in the NFL that can too.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
If the DC tells him to only play a certain way they might not be using his full ability. If an OC tells Brady to run read option on 50% of plays I'm pretty sure that's on the OC not making the best use of the talent.
There is a way big difference. A DB/LBs job is to cover/tackle. Now matter how you line up...you still have to stay with your receiver, break up passes and tackle him when he catches the ball. Real basic stuff.
A QBs job is way, way more complex.
How about an OC that never throws Daren Sproles short passes? Instead that OC forces him into an old school bell cow roleThere is a way big difference. A DB/LBs job is to cover/tackle. Now matter how you line up...you still have to stay with your receiver, break up passes and tackle him when he catches the ball. Real basic stuff.
A QBs job is way, way more complex.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Oh god, Gipper is already going to drag this into some anti Michigan thread where he shows us how much he really "knows".
You didn't get what I said. Rigid, average DCs want players that have the regular, historic NFL roles. That's fine. That DC plays Peppers at SS and we're done with it. I still think he does well in that role. It just doesn't utilize his full potential.
A good, innovative DC understands the unique skill-set Peppers brings to the table, and uses that to its fullest. This is where those hybrid S/LB positions are coming from. Buccanon, Baron. Woodson was a great DB for the Packers, he won DPOY when they moved him all over and uses his full range of skills.
A DC that does this will get the most out of Peppers. I think Williams, given his history with Barron, can do this for Peppers. There are some other DCs in the NFL that can too.
Oh god, Gipper is already going to drag this into some anti Michigan thread where he shows us how much he really "knows".
I drug it into an anti-Michigan thread? You are the one that seems to have tunnel vision.
You didn't get what I said. Rigid, average DCs want players that have the regular, historic NFL roles. That's fine. That DC plays Peppers at SS and we're done with it. I still think he does well in that role. It just doesn't utilize his full potential.
I got exactly what you said. You were prematurely blaming some rigid/average DC if Peppers turns out to be a bust. If he becomes a bust...it will be because he is a bust. If he is good, it will be because he is good, and not because some DC came up with some unique tricksterism to take advantage of his talents.
A good, innovative DC understands the unique skill-set Peppers brings to the table, and uses that to its fullest. This is where those hybrid S/LB positions are coming from. Buccanon, Baron. Woodson was a great DB for the Packers, he won DPOY when they moved him all over and uses his full range of skills.
A DC that does this will get the most out of Peppers. I think Williams, given his history with Barron, can do this for Peppers. There are some other DCs in the NFL that can too.
I think that if Peppers is any good....he will prove that, be it a good innovative DC or a rigid DC.
Maybe...yes...it takes a certain kind of player to play that hybrid role. And maybe Peppers is that kind of guy.
But, again, if Peppers busts it is because HE busts, not because some DC didn't use him right.
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How about an OC that never throws Daren Sproles short passes? Instead that OC forces him into an old school bell cow roleThere is a way big difference. A DB/LBs job is to cover/tackle. Now matter how you line up...you still have to stay with your receiver, break up passes and tackle him when he catches the ball. Real basic stuff.
A QBs job is way, way more complex.
How about an OC that never throws Daren Sproles short passes? Instead that OC forces him into an old school bell cow role
And that comes down to the skill he brings to the position.
Peppers job will be to: A. cover B. tackle.
If he can't do those things it won't matter what formation or system he is being used in. If he has the talent to do those things it won't matter what formation or system he is being used in.
If Peppers is good at both....he will be the versatile player you think he is.
If he can only tackle and not cover....maybe he can play primarily LB
If he can cover but not tackle...maybe he will be use primarily at safety.
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But a good DC put his players in optimal positions to cover/tackle. Promise you that it's the coaching why sheard was more productive in NE. They put his hand down and put weight back on him. Guarandamntee belichick never sent his DE/olb'er hybrids into deep man 1 like some of the genius's we've had here in cleveland
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Jabril wont be there at 12, but if he is.....garett/allen and peppers is a 1st round i could live with ie beat off all over myself
Jabril wont be there at 12, but if he is.....garett/allen and peppers is a 1st round i could live with ie beat off all over myself
I think collectively we now have at least 20 players in the top 12...
Seems about right...
although... how far would Obi be expected to be?
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/obi-melifonwu?id=2558189
I've seen Obi everywhere from end of Round 1 to Round 3. He has an enticing upside, but an uncertain floor.
All of the recent talk around Peppers is him falling in the draft. Most NFL DC's want a player that has a defined position. As a result, a player that could be a potential star like Peppers falls.
With the right NFL DC, I think he could be Mark Barron or Deone Bucannon.
I thought of Mathieu who played that role for AZ early in his career. I think "hybrid" has been gaining "defined role" ground sine he came on the scene.
I do agree that Peppers will need a DC with a defined idea on how to use him, but a willingness to adapt that idea as results dictate.
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I'm not making excuse Gipper, I'm stating facts. I'm not sure how I can be more clear. Others in this thread seem to get what I was saying so that's good enough for me.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Tour, I've heard the honey badger comparisons as well. Same idea, but some differences. Peppers is bigger and can hold up in the box better, but Tyrann is better in coverage
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Tour, I've heard the honey badger comparisons as well. Same idea, but some differences. Peppers is bigger and can hold up in the box better, but Tyrann is better in coverage
Tour, I've heard the honey badger comparisons as well. Same idea, but some differences. Peppers is bigger and can hold up in the box better, but Tyrann is better in coverage
Agree... Mathieu is undersized for the role and it has taken its toll on him.
As for Peppers... I just can't wrap my arms around him. I have a nagging inkling he's another Devin Hester, who for all his physical talent never developed coverage skills. But whose return skills kept him around until someone in CHI figured out trying him as a full-time WR.
I've wondered if Peppers isn't ultimately destined for RB. I've read one article projecting that future for him.
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I'm not making excuse Gipper, I'm stating facts. I'm not sure how I can be more clear. Others in this thread seem to get what I was saying so that's good enough for me.
I'm not making excuse Gipper, I'm stating facts. I'm not sure how I can be more clear. Others in this thread seem to get what I was saying so that's good enough for me.
Then...when and if he sucks I will expect you to admit that it is primarily his own doing.
And when and if he succeeds you can also say that it was primarily his own doing.
Not the DCs either way.
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We'll have to see how he's used. The DC gets credit both ways as well. That is especially true in this case. That's the point I'm trying to get across. This is a player who's unique skill-set can best be utilized by a creative, good DC. It will mostly be on Peppers, but the DC and scheme is especially important in his case
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Peppers is a ball killer why would we use him on offense much? He's a guided cruise missile
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I read a quote by some anonymous scout that thinks he'd be better on offense.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Well, this guy may be better suited to the "hybrid" spot:
Obi Melifonwu
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/obi-melifonwu?id=2558189
6'4 219. Compared to 6'0 205 for Peppers
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