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Analysis of the Hybrid LB/SS Role in Gregg Williams' D...

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  • The GipperT The Gipper

    @gftchris said:

    If the DC tells him to only play a certain way they might not be using his full ability. If an OC tells Brady to run read option on 50% of plays I'm pretty sure that's on the OC not making the best use of the talent.

    There is a way big difference. A DB/LBs job is to cover/tackle. Now matter how you line up...you still have to stay with your receiver, break up passes and tackle him when he catches the ball. Real basic stuff.

    A QBs job is way, way more complex.

    @the-gipper said:

    There is a way big difference. A DB/LBs job is to cover/tackle. Now matter how you line up...you still have to stay with your receiver, break up passes and tackle him when he catches the ball. Real basic stuff.

    A QBs job is way, way more complex.

    How about an OC that never throws Daren Sproles short passes? Instead that OC forces him into an old school bell cow role
    Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
    The GipperT 1 Reply
  • MLD WoodyM MLD Woody

    Oh god, Gipper is already going to drag this into some anti Michigan thread where he shows us how much he really "knows".

    You didn't get what I said. Rigid, average DCs want players that have the regular, historic NFL roles. That's fine. That DC plays Peppers at SS and we're done with it. I still think he does well in that role. It just doesn't utilize his full potential.

    A good, innovative DC understands the unique skill-set Peppers brings to the table, and uses that to its fullest. This is where those hybrid S/LB positions are coming from. Buccanon, Baron. Woodson was a great DB for the Packers, he won DPOY when they moved him all over and uses his full range of skills.

    A DC that does this will get the most out of Peppers. I think Williams, given his history with Barron, can do this for Peppers. There are some other DCs in the NFL that can too.

    @mld-woody said:

    Oh god, Gipper is already going to drag this into some anti Michigan thread where he shows us how much he really "knows".

    I drug it into an anti-Michigan thread? You are the one that seems to have tunnel vision.

    You didn't get what I said. Rigid, average DCs want players that have the regular, historic NFL roles. That's fine. That DC plays Peppers at SS and we're done with it. I still think he does well in that role. It just doesn't utilize his full potential.

    I got exactly what you said. You were prematurely blaming some rigid/average DC if Peppers turns out to be a bust. If he becomes a bust...it will be because he is a bust. If he is good, it will be because he is good, and not because some DC came up with some unique tricksterism to take advantage of his talents.

    A good, innovative DC understands the unique skill-set Peppers brings to the table, and uses that to its fullest. This is where those hybrid S/LB positions are coming from. Buccanon, Baron. Woodson was a great DB for the Packers, he won DPOY when they moved him all over and uses his full range of skills.

    A DC that does this will get the most out of Peppers. I think Williams, given his history with Barron, can do this for Peppers. There are some other DCs in the NFL that can too.

    I think that if Peppers is any good....he will prove that, be it a good innovative DC or a rigid DC.

    Maybe...yes...it takes a certain kind of player to play that hybrid role. And maybe Peppers is that kind of guy.

    But, again, if Peppers busts it is because HE busts, not because some DC didn't use him right.

  • MLD WoodyM MLD Woody

    @the-gipper said:

    There is a way big difference. A DB/LBs job is to cover/tackle. Now matter how you line up...you still have to stay with your receiver, break up passes and tackle him when he catches the ball. Real basic stuff.

    A QBs job is way, way more complex.

    How about an OC that never throws Daren Sproles short passes? Instead that OC forces him into an old school bell cow role

    @mld-woody said:

    How about an OC that never throws Daren Sproles short passes? Instead that OC forces him into an old school bell cow role

    And that comes down to the skill he brings to the position.

    Peppers job will be to: A. cover B. tackle.

    If he can't do those things it won't matter what formation or system he is being used in. If he has the talent to do those things it won't matter what formation or system he is being used in.

    If Peppers is good at both....he will be the versatile player you think he is.

    If he can only tackle and not cover....maybe he can play primarily LB

    If he can cover but not tackle...maybe he will be use primarily at safety.

  • But a good DC put his players in optimal positions to cover/tackle. Promise you that it's the coaching why sheard was more productive in NE. They put his hand down and put weight back on him. Guarandamntee belichick never sent his DE/olb'er hybrids into deep man 1 like some of the genius's we've had here in cleveland

  • C Clevfan4life

    Jabril wont be there at 12, but if he is.....garett/allen and peppers is a 1st round i could live with ie beat off all over myself

    @clevfan4life said:

    Jabril wont be there at 12, but if he is.....garett/allen and peppers is a 1st round i could live with ie beat off all over myself

    I think collectively we now have at least 20 players in the top 12...

    Seems about right...

    @calfoxwc said:

    although... how far would Obi be expected to be?

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/obi-melifonwu?id=2558189

    I've seen Obi everywhere from end of Round 1 to Round 3. He has an enticing upside, but an uncertain floor.

    @mld-woody said:

    All of the recent talk around Peppers is him falling in the draft. Most NFL DC's want a player that has a defined position. As a result, a player that could be a potential star like Peppers falls.

    With the right NFL DC, I think he could be Mark Barron or Deone Bucannon.

    I thought of Mathieu who played that role for AZ early in his career. I think "hybrid" has been gaining "defined role" ground sine he came on the scene.

    I do agree that Peppers will need a DC with a defined idea on how to use him, but a willingness to adapt that idea as results dictate.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • I'm not making excuse Gipper, I'm stating facts. I'm not sure how I can be more clear. Others in this thread seem to get what I was saying so that's good enough for me.

    Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
    The GipperT 1 Reply

  • Tour, I've heard the honey badger comparisons as well. Same idea, but some differences. Peppers is bigger and can hold up in the box better, but Tyrann is better in coverage

    Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
  • MLD WoodyM MLD Woody

    Tour, I've heard the honey badger comparisons as well. Same idea, but some differences. Peppers is bigger and can hold up in the box better, but Tyrann is better in coverage

    @mld-woody said:

    Tour, I've heard the honey badger comparisons as well. Same idea, but some differences. Peppers is bigger and can hold up in the box better, but Tyrann is better in coverage

    Agree... Mathieu is undersized for the role and it has taken its toll on him.

    As for Peppers... I just can't wrap my arms around him. I have a nagging inkling he's another Devin Hester, who for all his physical talent never developed coverage skills. But whose return skills kept him around until someone in CHI figured out trying him as a full-time WR.

    I've wondered if Peppers isn't ultimately destined for RB. I've read one article projecting that future for him.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • MLD WoodyM MLD Woody

    I'm not making excuse Gipper, I'm stating facts. I'm not sure how I can be more clear. Others in this thread seem to get what I was saying so that's good enough for me.

    @mld-woody said:

    I'm not making excuse Gipper, I'm stating facts. I'm not sure how I can be more clear. Others in this thread seem to get what I was saying so that's good enough for me.

    Then...when and if he sucks I will expect you to admit that it is primarily his own doing.

    And when and if he succeeds you can also say that it was primarily his own doing.

    Not the DCs either way.

  • We'll have to see how he's used. The DC gets credit both ways as well. That is especially true in this case. That's the point I'm trying to get across. This is a player who's unique skill-set can best be utilized by a creative, good DC. It will mostly be on Peppers, but the DC and scheme is especially important in his case

    Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!

  • Peppers is a ball killer why would we use him on offense much? He's a guided cruise missile

  • I read a quote by some anonymous scout that thinks he'd be better on offense.

    Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
    C tiamat63T 2 Replies

  • Well, this guy may be better suited to the "hybrid" spot:

    Obi Melifonwu

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/obi-melifonwu?id=2558189

    6'4 219. Compared to 6'0 205 for Peppers

  • And maybe for a 5th round flyer this guy:

    Josh Harvey-Clemons

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/josh-harvey-clemons?id=2557880

    6'5 228

  • MLD WoodyM MLD Woody

    I read a quote by some anonymous scout that thinks he'd be better on offense.

    @mld-woody said:

    I read a quote by some anonymous scout that thinks he'd be better on offense.

    Meh. He puts 5-10 lbs on and keeps his speed.....ridiculous

    MLD WoodyM 1 Reply
  • MLD WoodyM MLD Woody

    I read a quote by some anonymous scout that thinks he'd be better on offense.

    @mld-woody said:

    I read a quote by some anonymous scout that thinks he'd be better on offense.

    Sure that wasn't me?

  • tiamat63T tiamat63

    @mld-woody said:

    I read a quote by some anonymous scout that thinks he'd be better on offense.

    Sure that wasn't me?

    @tiamat63 said:

    Sure that wasn't me?

    I don't believe thinking you're an NFL Scout makes you one.

    Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
    tiamat63T 1 Reply
  • C Clevfan4life

    @mld-woody said:

    I read a quote by some anonymous scout that thinks he'd be better on offense.

    Meh. He puts 5-10 lbs on and keeps his speed.....ridiculous

    @clevfan4life said:

    Meh. He puts 5-10 lbs on and keeps his speed.....ridiculous

    I think he provides more long term value / potential on defense than offense.

    Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
    C 1 Reply
  • MLD WoodyM MLD Woody

    @tiamat63 said:

    Sure that wasn't me?

    I don't believe thinking you're an NFL Scout makes you one.

    @mld-woody said:

    I don't believe thinking you're an NFL Scout makes you one.

    I see we're in a mood tonight...

  • tiamat63T tiamat63

    @mld-woody said:

    I don't believe thinking you're an NFL Scout makes you one.

    I see we're in a mood tonight...

    @tiamat63 said:

    I see we're in a mood tonight...

    Then you should get your vision checked too lol

    Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
    tiamat63T 1 Reply
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