Trubisky's Experience May Not Prevent Him From Being The 1st QB Selected - Thanks to the Spread?
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Yeah Russell Wilson and a stud defense. I've said it's probably going to be Garrett. Start ticking off the other great current starters drafted third round and lower. Brady, Prescott. I won't rehash the stat the lower you draft a QB, the worse the odds of him succeeding. We've already been down that road with Frye & McCoy.
BTW, remember "it's a sin if we draft Quinn?" I saw trouble down the road with party boy Johnny, hated that pick, so kindly don't put those front office f-ups on my draft acumen.
No excuses or alibi's necessary. Wilson has been in 2 SBs without a very good offensive line and 2 undrafted WRs that start so I'd say he's done pretty good so far.
As for Manziel, you spent all of 2016 crying the current FO & Coaching Staff is the reason you couldn't see a franchise QB here in 2016. You better believe you needed some reminding of WHO passed on Derek Carr after he passed on Khalil Mack in 2014. You're the one that quoted Shep a month ago for saying if you don't have a franchise QB you better keep trying to draft one. I'm fine with that if one actually exists. What draft analysts/experts that have studied the QBs in great deal are saying they are confident one exists? I have zero to do with the perception of this year's QB class.
As for Manziel, you spent all of 2016 crying the current FO & Coaching Staff is the reason you couldn't see a franchise QB here in 2016. You better believe you needed some reminding of WHO passed on Derek Carr after he passed on Khalil Mack in 2014. You're the one that quoted Shep a month ago for saying if you don't have a franchise QB you better keep trying to draft one. I'm fine with that if one actually exists. What draft analysts/experts that have studied the QBs in great deal are saying they are confident one exists? I have zero to do with the perception of this year's QB class.2016- I was fine with Wentz, but not Goff. We'll see what the FO does with the #12 they got from the Eagles. Color me underwhelmed so far. Coleman needs to step up big time this year- or Ghoolie just might be right about him.
If the qbs are all as bad as the "experts" are proclaiming, may as well stick (and suck) with Kessler and draft #1 overall again next year.
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As for Manziel, you spent all of 2016 crying the current FO & Coaching Staff is the reason you couldn't see a franchise QB here in 2016. You better believe you needed some reminding of WHO passed on Derek Carr after he passed on Khalil Mack in 2014. You're the one that quoted Shep a month ago for saying if you don't have a franchise QB you better keep trying to draft one. I'm fine with that if one actually exists. What draft analysts/experts that have studied the QBs in great deal are saying they are confident one exists? I have zero to do with the perception of this year's QB class.
2016- I was fine with Wentz, but not Goff. We'll see what the FO does with the #12 they got from the Eagles. Color me underwhelmed so far. Coleman needs to step up big time this year- or Ghoolie just might be right about him.
If the qbs are all as bad as the "experts" are proclaiming, may as well stick (and suck) with Kessler and draft #1 overall again next year.
2016- I was fine with Wentz, but not Goff. We'll see what the FO does with the #12 they got from the Eagles. Color me underwhelmed so far. Coleman needs to step up big time this year- or Ghoolie just might be right about him.
If the qbs are all as bad as the "experts" are proclaiming, may as well stick (and suck) with Kessler and draft #1 overall again next year.
Antonio Brown only had 16 receptions for 167 yards and 0 TDs in 9 games as a rookie catching passes from #7. Today he's the best WR in the business.
Corey Coleman had 33 rec for 413 yards and 3 TDs in 10 games catching passes from about 4 different QBs and breaking his hand right after his best performance impacted his progress.
Sometimes it takes a little time to get to the magic at the Wr position. For example, Taylor Gabriel only had 1 TD in 2 years here. The last year he was here (2015) he only averaged 8.6 yards per catch on 28 rec for 241 yards in Flip's offense. In ATL in 2016, he caught 35 passes for 579 yards for 16.5 yards per catch and 6 TDs.
How nice do you suppose it would have been if we drafted both Derek Carr and Khalil Mack over Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel in 2014. 1) You wouldn't have to be disappointed in this regime's rookie season. 2) We'd have the 2 most important positions (QB and Edge Rusher) all set so this supply of QB prospects wouldn't even matter enough to debate about.
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As for Manziel, you spent all of 2016 crying the current FO & Coaching Staff is the reason you couldn't see a franchise QB here in 2016. You better believe you needed some reminding of WHO passed on Derek Carr after he passed on Khalil Mack in 2014. You're the one that quoted Shep a month ago for saying if you don't have a franchise QB you better keep trying to draft one. I'm fine with that if one actually exists. What draft analysts/experts that have studied the QBs in great deal are saying they are confident one exists? I have zero to do with the perception of this year's QB class.
2016- I was fine with Wentz, but not Goff. We'll see what the FO does with the #12 they got from the Eagles. Color me underwhelmed so far. Coleman needs to step up big time this year- or Ghoolie just might be right about him.
If the qbs are all as bad as the "experts" are proclaiming, may as well stick (and suck) with Kessler and draft #1 overall again next year.
If the qbs are all as bad as the "experts" are proclaiming, may as well stick (and suck) with Kessler and draft #1 overall again next year.
Oh, FFS...
It's a "weak" class. So you take a shot. Just don't bet the farm.
What you don't do is take your ball and go home.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Oh, FFS...
It's a "weak" class. So you take a shot. Just don't bet the farm.
What you don't do is take your ball and go home.
I've been beaten down. Why argue anymore? It's going to be Garrett, and Trubisky will be gone by #12. MHO? Watson is way overrated, Kizer flat out sucks, and Mahomes is a mechanical mess that should have stuck to baseball. I don't like Webb either- not accurate enough. The leaves me exactly who? to root for us taking.
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Kaaya.
Haven't seen enough of him to pass judgment but the "experts" have a third round grade on him- and not exactly too complementary.
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Oh, FFS...
It's a "weak" class. So you take a shot. Just don't bet the farm.
What you don't do is take your ball and go home.
I've been beaten down. Why argue anymore? It's going to be Garrett, and Trubisky will be gone by #12. MHO? Watson is way overrated, Kizer flat out sucks, and Mahomes is a mechanical mess that should have stuck to baseball. I don't like Webb either- not accurate enough. The leaves me exactly who? to root for us taking.
I've been beaten down. Why argue anymore? It's going to be Garrett, and Trubisky will be gone by #12. MHO? Watson is way overrated, Kizer flat out sucks, and Mahomes is a mechanical mess that should have stuck to baseball. I don't like Webb either- not accurate enough. The leaves me exactly who? to root for us taking.
Chad Kelly?
Some have surmised that he may actually be the best prospect out there....but his injury status and his off field antics got him a deep dive in the draft prospect list.
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Oh, FFS...
It's a "weak" class. So you take a shot. Just don't bet the farm.
What you don't do is take your ball and go home.
I've been beaten down. Why argue anymore? It's going to be Garrett, and Trubisky will be gone by #12. MHO? Watson is way overrated, Kizer flat out sucks, and Mahomes is a mechanical mess that should have stuck to baseball. I don't like Webb either- not accurate enough. The leaves me exactly who? to root for us taking.
I've been beaten down. Why argue anymore? It's going to be Garrett, and Trubisky will be gone by #12. MHO? Watson is way overrated, Kizer flat out sucks, and Mahomes is a mechanical mess that should have stuck to baseball. I don't like Webb either- not accurate enough. The leaves me exactly who? to root for us taking.
Watson and Kizer will both find NFL success. Mahomes likely won't, but it is entirely dependent on where he goes and how he's groomed. Webb probably won't. Peterman will float around.
Dobbs, however, has Prescott written all over him - he's talented enough to succeed, smart enough to succeed, and isn't fundamentally terrible...and he'll be around when good teams can pick him.
It seems increasingly likely to me that we have him targeted with our late second/ third. He's athletic, mentally tough, has a quick and decently compact release, throws a great deep ball, and can make defenses pay with his feet. His biggest knock is that he needs to work on his progressions - like every QB in this draft. However, he's the only one of the bunch who was an aerospace engineer major and who never missed a day of school in his life...so work ethic and drive clearly aren't a question.
The guy just screams hidden gem.
Every prospect has their flaws, but his flaws seem to be the most manageable.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I've been beaten down. Why argue anymore? It's going to be Garrett, and Trubisky will be gone by #12. MHO? Watson is way overrated, Kizer flat out sucks, and Mahomes is a mechanical mess that should have stuck to baseball. I don't like Webb either- not accurate enough. The leaves me exactly who? to root for us taking.
Watson and Kizer will both find NFL success. Mahomes likely won't, but it is entirely dependent on where he goes and how he's groomed. Webb probably won't. Peterman will float around.
Dobbs, however, has Prescott written all over him - he's talented enough to succeed, smart enough to succeed, and isn't fundamentally terrible...and he'll be around when good teams can pick him.
It seems increasingly likely to me that we have him targeted with our late second/ third. He's athletic, mentally tough, has a quick and decently compact release, throws a great deep ball, and can make defenses pay with his feet. His biggest knock is that he needs to work on his progressions - like every QB in this draft. However, he's the only one of the bunch who was an aerospace engineer major and who never missed a day of school in his life...so work ethic and drive clearly aren't a question.
The guy just screams hidden gem.
Every prospect has their flaws, but his flaws seem to be the most manageable.
Watson and Kizer will both find NFL success. Mahomes likely won't, but it is entirely dependent on where he goes and how he's groomed. Webb probably won't. Peterman will float around.
Dobbs, however, has Prescott written all over him - he's talented enough to succeed, smart enough to succeed, and isn't fundamentally terrible...and he'll be around when good teams can pick him.
It seems increasingly likely to me that we have him targeted with our late second/ third. He's athletic, mentally tough, has a quick and decently compact release, throws a great deep ball, and can make defenses pay with his feet. His biggest knock is that he needs to work on his progressions - like every QB in this draft. However, he's the only one of the bunch who was an aerospace engineer major and who never missed a day of school in his life...so work ethic and drive clearly aren't a question.
The guy just screams hidden gem.
Every prospect has their flaws, but his flaws seem to be the most manageable.
I didn't see him at the combine, was watching the bigger names but he looks good on the highlight videos I've seen. Certainly would be better than Kessler just based on the arm strength and athleticism that Dobbs has.
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I've been beaten down. Why argue anymore? It's going to be Garrett, and Trubisky will be gone by #12. MHO? Watson is way overrated, Kizer flat out sucks, and Mahomes is a mechanical mess that should have stuck to baseball. I don't like Webb either- not accurate enough. The leaves me exactly who? to root for us taking.
Watson and Kizer will both find NFL success. Mahomes likely won't, but it is entirely dependent on where he goes and how he's groomed. Webb probably won't. Peterman will float around.
Dobbs, however, has Prescott written all over him - he's talented enough to succeed, smart enough to succeed, and isn't fundamentally terrible...and he'll be around when good teams can pick him.
It seems increasingly likely to me that we have him targeted with our late second/ third. He's athletic, mentally tough, has a quick and decently compact release, throws a great deep ball, and can make defenses pay with his feet. His biggest knock is that he needs to work on his progressions - like every QB in this draft. However, he's the only one of the bunch who was an aerospace engineer major and who never missed a day of school in his life...so work ethic and drive clearly aren't a question.
The guy just screams hidden gem.
Every prospect has their flaws, but his flaws seem to be the most manageable.
Watson and Kizer will both find NFL success. Mahomes likely won't, but it is entirely dependent on where he goes and how he's groomed. Webb probably won't. Peterman will float around.
Dobbs, however, has Prescott written all over him - he's talented enough to succeed, smart enough to succeed, and isn't fundamentally terrible...and he'll be around when good teams can pick him.
It seems increasingly likely to me that we have him targeted with our late second/ third. He's athletic, mentally tough, has a quick and decently compact release, throws a great deep ball, and can make defenses pay with his feet. His biggest knock is that he needs to work on his progressions - like every QB in this draft. However, he's the only one of the bunch who was an aerospace engineer major and who never missed a day of school in his life...so work ethic and drive clearly aren't a question.
The guy just screams hidden gem.
Every prospect has their flaws, but his flaws seem to be the most manageable.
Thanks for the input TC. I'll give him a look- he's been under my radar, but surely not the Browns. I'll disagree with you about Kizer though. Sure he's intelligent, but wouldn't touch him. As Tour opined he doesn't have a fast release (I'm not a qb mechanics whiz, so I'll trust him on that one). And what I saw of him, his accuracy is suspect. If great qbs can elevate the play of their team Kizer fails badly. Had a so-so combine- but I won't hold that against him. I haven't forgotten he got benched in a game too.
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Watson and Kizer will both find NFL success. Mahomes likely won't, but it is entirely dependent on where he goes and how he's groomed. Webb probably won't. Peterman will float around.
Dobbs, however, has Prescott written all over him - he's talented enough to succeed, smart enough to succeed, and isn't fundamentally terrible...and he'll be around when good teams can pick him.
It seems increasingly likely to me that we have him targeted with our late second/ third. He's athletic, mentally tough, has a quick and decently compact release, throws a great deep ball, and can make defenses pay with his feet. His biggest knock is that he needs to work on his progressions - like every QB in this draft. However, he's the only one of the bunch who was an aerospace engineer major and who never missed a day of school in his life...so work ethic and drive clearly aren't a question.
The guy just screams hidden gem.
Every prospect has their flaws, but his flaws seem to be the most manageable.
Thanks for the input TC. I'll give him a look- he's been under my radar, but surely not the Browns. I'll disagree with you about Kizer though. Sure he's intelligent, but wouldn't touch him. As Tour opined he doesn't have a fast release (I'm not a qb mechanics whiz, so I'll trust him on that one). And what I saw of him, his accuracy is suspect. If great qbs can elevate the play of their team Kizer fails badly. Had a so-so combine- but I won't hold that against him. I haven't forgotten he got benched in a game too.
Thanks for the input TC. I'll give him a look- he's been under my radar, but surely not the Browns. I'll disagree with you about Kizer though. Sure he's intelligent, but wouldn't touch him. As Tour opined he doesn't have a fast release (I'm not a qb mechanics whiz, so I'll trust him on that one). And what I saw of him, his accuracy is suspect. If great qbs can elevate the play of their team Kizer fails badly. Had a so-so combine- but I won't hold that against him. I haven't forgotten he got benched in a game too.
IMO he's solely the product of the system he was in. Brian Kelly is a bad coach - impetuous, gimmicky and not great at grooming talent.
He's killed the careers of multiple talented QB's in his tenure.
Kizer won't be a factor today, tomorrow, next year, or maybe the year after. But he has more ham enough natural talent coupled with both everyday intelligence and football intelligence.
Given time, he'll be something. Time is just something we don't really have to give.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I've been beaten down. Why argue anymore? It's going to be Garrett, and Trubisky will be gone by #12. MHO? Watson is way overrated, Kizer flat out sucks, and Mahomes is a mechanical mess that should have stuck to baseball. I don't like Webb either- not accurate enough. The leaves me exactly who? to root for us taking.
Watson and Kizer will both find NFL success. Mahomes likely won't, but it is entirely dependent on where he goes and how he's groomed. Webb probably won't. Peterman will float around.
Dobbs, however, has Prescott written all over him - he's talented enough to succeed, smart enough to succeed, and isn't fundamentally terrible...and he'll be around when good teams can pick him.
It seems increasingly likely to me that we have him targeted with our late second/ third. He's athletic, mentally tough, has a quick and decently compact release, throws a great deep ball, and can make defenses pay with his feet. His biggest knock is that he needs to work on his progressions - like every QB in this draft. However, he's the only one of the bunch who was an aerospace engineer major and who never missed a day of school in his life...so work ethic and drive clearly aren't a question.
The guy just screams hidden gem.
Every prospect has their flaws, but his flaws seem to be the most manageable.
Dobbs, however, has Prescott written all over him - he's talented enough to succeed, smart enough to succeed, and isn't fundamentally terrible...and he'll be around when good teams can pick him.
Promise I didn't steal this observation when I posted it in another thread.
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Dobbs, however, has Prescott written all over him - he's talented enough to succeed, smart enough to succeed, and isn't fundamentally terrible...and he'll be around when good teams can pick him.
Promise I didn't steal this observation when I posted it in another thread.
Promise I didn't steal this observation when I posted it in another thread.
I'd be lying if I said I was the first one here to think it...
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Thanks for the input TC. I'll give him a look- he's been under my radar, but surely not the Browns. I'll disagree with you about Kizer though. Sure he's intelligent, but wouldn't touch him. As Tour opined he doesn't have a fast release (I'm not a qb mechanics whiz, so I'll trust him on that one). And what I saw of him, his accuracy is suspect. If great qbs can elevate the play of their team Kizer fails badly. Had a so-so combine- but I won't hold that against him. I haven't forgotten he got benched in a game too.
IMO he's solely the product of the system he was in. Brian Kelly is a bad coach - impetuous, gimmicky and not great at grooming talent.
He's killed the careers of multiple talented QB's in his tenure.
Kizer won't be a factor today, tomorrow, next year, or maybe the year after. But he has more ham enough natural talent coupled with both everyday intelligence and football intelligence.
Given time, he'll be something. Time is just something we don't really have to give.
Kizer won't be a factor today, tomorrow, next year, or maybe the year after. But he has more ham...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Kizer won't be a factor today, tomorrow, next year, or maybe the year after. But he has more ham...
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Didn't know where to put this info, so here goes a bump.. No surprise about Mahomes. Tied the record. Doesn't mean much- clay pigeon bustin' Brandon Weeden tossed the rock @ 59 mph. Though having a rocket arm doesn't always translate to NFL success, Not being able to toss it 55 mph is near certain doom. Looking at the spreadsheet below, only two starting qb since 2008 (Tyrod Taylor Dak Prescott- both were injured) failed to make that threshold.
and if you miss clicking on the link in the above article, an interesting spreadsheet. BTW, it goes back several years if you want to take a stroll down Memory Lane to see just how many of those QBs have flopped. If you have lame arm velocity (Gasp Watson!!) You're odds of making it in the NFL go way down. Looking at the data our departed noodle arm backup Connor Shaw tossed it a smidge faster than Watson.
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49mph wow. That's him off my board completely tbh.
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Didn't know where to put this info, so here goes a bump.. No surprise about Mahomes. Tied the record. Doesn't mean much- clay pigeon bustin' Brandon Weeden tossed the rock @ 59 mph. Though having a rocket arm doesn't always translate to NFL success, Not being able to toss it 55 mph is near certain doom. Looking at the spreadsheet below, only two starting qb since 2008 (Tyrod Taylor Dak Prescott- both were injured) failed to make that threshold.
and if you miss clicking on the link in the above article, an interesting spreadsheet. BTW, it goes back several years if you want to take a stroll down Memory Lane to see just how many of those QBs have flopped. If you have lame arm velocity (Gasp Watson!!) You're odds of making it in the NFL go way down. Looking at the data our departed noodle arm backup Connor Shaw tossed it a smidge faster than Watson.
Didn't know where to put this info, so here goes a bump.. No surprise about Mahomes. Tied the record. Doesn't mean much- clay pigeon bustin' Brandon Weeden tossed the rock @ 59 mph. Though having a rocket arm doesn't always translate to NFL success, Not being able to toss it 55 mph is near certain doom. Looking at the spreadsheet below, only two starting qb since 2008 (Tyrod Taylor Dak Prescott- both were injured) failed to make that threshold.
and if you miss clicking on the link in the above article, an interesting spreadsheet. BTW, it goes back several years if you want to take a stroll down Memory Lane to see just how many of those QBs have flopped. If you have lame arm velocity (Gasp Watson!!) You're odds of making it in the NFL go way down. Looking at the data our departed noodle arm backup Connor Shaw tossed it a smidge faster than Watson.
Interesting. I really wonder how much of a factor such a thing can be. While a team can overlook certain below average matters: height/weight/hand size.....can velocity that low be overlooked? Will he have a Pro day in which to prove he can do better.
Also....did you say you had a link to some historical numbers on velocity? I would like to see some of that historical data.
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Didn't know where to put this info, so here goes a bump.. No surprise about Mahomes. Tied the record. Doesn't mean much- clay pigeon bustin' Brandon Weeden tossed the rock @ 59 mph. Though having a rocket arm doesn't always translate to NFL success, Not being able to toss it 55 mph is near certain doom. Looking at the spreadsheet below, only two starting qb since 2008 (Tyrod Taylor Dak Prescott- both were injured) failed to make that threshold.
and if you miss clicking on the link in the above article, an interesting spreadsheet. BTW, it goes back several years if you want to take a stroll down Memory Lane to see just how many of those QBs have flopped. If you have lame arm velocity (Gasp Watson!!) You're odds of making it in the NFL go way down. Looking at the data our departed noodle arm backup Connor Shaw tossed it a smidge faster than Watson.
Interesting. I really wonder how much of a factor such a thing can be. While a team can overlook certain below average matters: height/weight/hand size.....can velocity that low be overlooked? Will he have a Pro day in which to prove he can do better.
Also....did you say you had a link to some historical numbers on velocity? I would like to see some of that historical data.
Interesting. I really wonder how much of a factor such a thing can be. While a team can overlook certain below average matters: height/weight/hand size.....can velocity that low be overlooked? Will he have a Pro day in which to prove he can do better.
Also....did you say you had a link to some historical numbers on velocity? I would like to see some of that historical data.
Gip, at the top of the spreadsheet there's years 2017 - 2008. Just click on the year, and the data will show up.
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Interesting. I really wonder how much of a factor such a thing can be. While a team can overlook certain below average matters: height/weight/hand size.....can velocity that low be overlooked? Will he have a Pro day in which to prove he can do better.
Also....did you say you had a link to some historical numbers on velocity? I would like to see some of that historical data.
Gip, at the top of the spreadsheet there's years 2017 - 2008. Just click on the year, and the data will show up.
Gip, at the top of the spreadsheet there's years 2017 - 2008. Just click on the year, and the data will show up.
I see it now. Thanks
(first note: according to that Dak Prescott failed the velocity test)
2d note: Mike Glennon also had only a 49 mph velocity.!!!
3rd note..Nick Foles has HUGE monster hands...almost an inch bigger than anyone else. If his member matched his hand size he could go into porn.
Same with Ryan Mallet. We know hand size has little to do with brain size then.
Tyrod Taylor only had a 50 mph velocity......can he be considered a successful NFL QB?
For a short as he is, Russell Wilson had big hands...10.25
AJ McCarron also deficient in velocity....only a 49.
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