On The Record: Make your QB predictions
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Perhaps off the board, but
Best: Nate Peterman
Biggest bust: Whomever gets drafted first out of Kizer and Mahomes
There's something about Peterman that I can't shake... Perhaps it's that this draft class looks like a bunch of duds and while Peterman doesn't have the ceiling of some of the more popular choices, I'm most confident in his ability to be a serviceably consistent starter.
Neither Mahomes or Kizer have any idea how to get rid of the football on time. Kizer will get pounded and Mahomes scrambling will have him flipping burgers by year three.
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reason i mentioned quinn was (also years ago before we drafted that douche) was that neither one could win a big game so i assumed that you just looked at big numbers from a crappy so called big name school
reason i mentioned quinn was (also years ago before we drafted that douche) was that neither one could win a big game so i assumed that you just looked at big numbers from a crappy so called big name school
I'm not too interested in W-L as an indicator of which QBs will make the transition to the NFL. The list of college QBs who won the biggest game of all over the past decade plus is full of names like Leinart, Young, Tebow, Flynn, McElroy, McCarron, Leak etc. Football is referred to as the ultimate team sport, and with so many moving parts it's irresponsible to put the W-L column on one person. I look for traits, can a prospect break down the play quickly and determine where the ball should go? Can a prospect deliver the ball accurately? These are the questions I need answered when evaluating quarterbacks.
As far as physical traits go, Kizer is the prototype in this class. combined with his intelligence and understanding of the game, he's a great prospect. Kizer may not have the best release, he may have been marooned on a rat shit team with a malignant narcissist for a head coach, and he may need to work on the decisions he makes, but that doesn't mean he can't play football.
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reason i mentioned quinn was (also years ago before we drafted that douche) was that neither one could win a big game so i assumed that you just looked at big numbers from a crappy so called big name school
I'm not too interested in W-L as an indicator of which QBs will make the transition to the NFL. The list of college QBs who won the biggest game of all over the past decade plus is full of names like Leinart, Young, Tebow, Flynn, McElroy, McCarron, Leak etc. Football is referred to as the ultimate team sport, and with so many moving parts it's irresponsible to put the W-L column on one person. I look for traits, can a prospect break down the play quickly and determine where the ball should go? Can a prospect deliver the ball accurately? These are the questions I need answered when evaluating quarterbacks.
As far as physical traits go, Kizer is the prototype in this class. combined with his intelligence and understanding of the game, he's a great prospect. Kizer may not have the best release, he may have been marooned on a rat shit team with a malignant narcissist for a head coach, and he may need to work on the decisions he makes, but that doesn't mean he can't play football.
I'm not too interested in W-L as an indicator of which QBs will make the transition to the NFL. The list of college QBs who won the biggest game of all over the past decade plus is full of names like Leinart, Young, Tebow, Flynn, McElroy, McCarron, Leak etc. Football is referred to as the ultimate team sport, and with so many moving parts it's irresponsible to put the W-L column on one person. I look for traits, can a prospect break down the play quickly and determine where the ball should go? Can a prospect deliver the ball accurately? These are the questions I need answered when evaluating quarterbacks.
As far as physical traits go, Kizer is the prototype in this class. combined with his intelligence and understanding of the game, he's a great prospect. Kizer may not have the best release, he may have been marooned on a rat shit team with a malignant narcissist for a head coach, and he may need to work on the decisions he makes, but that doesn't mean he can't play football.
LOL, I can play football too, not very well at my advanced age. But your defense of Kizer is duly noted. Hmmm... ya know who's the same size with a cannon arm, noted for making bad decisions? I give you Brandon Wee-done. He also carries the ND curse on his head. Unless a guy from that school is all world (and Kizer isn't) I'm taking him off my draft board.
Now I have a low opinion of Kelly- but- Trubisky may have only played one year @ NC, but at least he didn't get benched. Deshone must have been playing stinko bad to pull off that feat.
PS don't give me that "prototype" crap. You don't have to be 6'4" to be a great NFL qb. Like Brett Farve, Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees.
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I'm not too interested in W-L as an indicator of which QBs will make the transition to the NFL. The list of college QBs who won the biggest game of all over the past decade plus is full of names like Leinart, Young, Tebow, Flynn, McElroy, McCarron, Leak etc. Football is referred to as the ultimate team sport, and with so many moving parts it's irresponsible to put the W-L column on one person. I look for traits, can a prospect break down the play quickly and determine where the ball should go? Can a prospect deliver the ball accurately? These are the questions I need answered when evaluating quarterbacks.
As far as physical traits go, Kizer is the prototype in this class. combined with his intelligence and understanding of the game, he's a great prospect. Kizer may not have the best release, he may have been marooned on a rat shit team with a malignant narcissist for a head coach, and he may need to work on the decisions he makes, but that doesn't mean he can't play football.
LOL, I can play football too, not very well at my advanced age. But your defense of Kizer is duly noted. Hmmm... ya know who's the same size with a cannon arm, noted for making bad decisions? I give you Brandon Wee-done. He also carries the ND curse on his head. Unless a guy from that school is all world (and Kizer isn't) I'm taking him off my draft board.
Now I have a low opinion of Kelly- but- Trubisky may have only played one year @ NC, but at least he didn't get benched. Deshone must have been playing stinko bad to pull off that feat.
PS don't give me that "prototype" crap. You don't have to be 6'4" to be a great NFL qb. Like Brett Farve, Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees.
LOL, I can play football too, not very well at my advanced age. But your defense of Kizer is duly noted. Hmmm... ya know who's the same size with a cannon arm, noted for making bad decisions? I give you Brandon Wee-done. He also carries the ND curse on his head. Unless a guy from that school is all world (and Kizer isn't) I'm taking him off my draft board.
Now I have a low opinion of Kelly- but- Trubisky may have only played one year @ NC, but at least he didn't get benched. Deshone must have been playing stinko bad to pull off that feat.
PS don't give me that "prototype" crap. You don't have to be 6'4" to be a great NFL qb. Like Brett Farve, Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees.
Hoorta, that was hilarious but you made some really good points.
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Best: Chad Kelly
Worst: any number of players
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reason i mentioned quinn was (also years ago before we drafted that douche) was that neither one could win a big game so i assumed that you just looked at big numbers from a crappy so called big name school
I'm not too interested in W-L as an indicator of which QBs will make the transition to the NFL. The list of college QBs who won the biggest game of all over the past decade plus is full of names like Leinart, Young, Tebow, Flynn, McElroy, McCarron, Leak etc. Football is referred to as the ultimate team sport, and with so many moving parts it's irresponsible to put the W-L column on one person. I look for traits, can a prospect break down the play quickly and determine where the ball should go? Can a prospect deliver the ball accurately? These are the questions I need answered when evaluating quarterbacks.
As far as physical traits go, Kizer is the prototype in this class. combined with his intelligence and understanding of the game, he's a great prospect. Kizer may not have the best release, he may have been marooned on a rat shit team with a malignant narcissist for a head coach, and he may need to work on the decisions he makes, but that doesn't mean he can't play football.
I'm not too interested in W-L as an indicator of which QBs will make the transition to the NFL. The list of college QBs who won the biggest game of all over the past decade plus is full of names like Leinart, Young, Tebow, Flynn, McElroy, McCarron, Leak etc. Football is referred to as the ultimate team sport, and with so many moving parts it's irresponsible to put the W-L column on one person. I look for traits, can a prospect break down the play quickly and determine where the ball should go? Can a prospect deliver the ball accurately? These are the questions I need answered when evaluating quarterbacks.
As far as physical traits go, Kizer is the prototype in this class. combined with his intelligence and understanding of the game, he's a great prospect. Kizer may not have the best release, he may have been marooned on a rat shit team with a malignant narcissist for a head coach, and he may need to work on the decisions he makes, but that doesn't mean he can't play football.
I always respect your QB posts and still do.I'm just going to point out some important exceptions to the rules here and why.
In those names of winning QBs - Tebow started over the last prototype that came out of ND (Quinn). It may have been FUGLY football and all but he took over a 1-4 team behind Kyle Orton and led the same teammates to 9 wins and a playoff victory over Pittsburgh during his short cup of coffee. It might have even been as pathetic as don't turn the ball over while Denver erases the late deficit. I think 8 of those wins had late second half deficits so something can be said for a guy that knows how to win.
You're right that football is a TEAM game - but I think you have to find a QB that will drive the ship instead of being a passenger. The last 1 we drafted that did that was Kosar in the Supplemental Drive. As much as some will want to tell me Couch did it, at the bye week in 2002 the coaching staff took the load off Couch and placed it on the running game. Our rookie RB at the time, responded to the challenge by averaging over 100 yards rushing per game over the last 5-6 games. In fact, the day we beat Atlanta - Couch got hurt in the first half with us behind by 7-10 points. Green rushed for 174 yards and 2 TDs which helped us make the playoffs. All that being the case, I saw Couch more as a passenger (not all his fault by any means). There was a lot of bad luck with Couch's injuries/shoulder and elbow tendonitis, disappointing personnel choices, and the usual stuff we see here not making this a QB friendly place since Kosar & Testaverde last won post season games for us.
QBs that can transcend a college program from 1 level to another (like Kelly & Kosar) at the U or say an Andrew Luck putting Stanford back on the map. Along the same lines, Carson Palmer put USC back up into elite rankings. The year Pittsburgh went after his knee in the playoffs, Cincy was something like 13-3. On his last throw of the day, Palmer put Cincy up 10-3 before Jon Kitna came in to play Santa Claus to the Pitt D. While Aaron Rodgers might not have led his team to any Championships - he did beat a much more talented USC team which foreshadowed something special to the right taker. While Donovan McNabb never won the Big Game in the Big East, he had his team finishing tied for 1st or competing for it every year. That level of football disappeared not too long after he left. Last but not least, Joe Montana led ND to an upset victory over Texas erasing a second half deficit. His arm strength was just as much of a question mark as his style of offense played in and his height and his 11 TDs to 10 INTs. All it took was the right taker/Coach for the right style of NFL offense and every question about him disappeared except why was he the 3rd round pick while Rick Mirer and Brady Quinn were 1st round picks? When you get drafted by a bad NFL team - you're going to want a QB that can beat teams he's not supposed to like back when Kosar wasn't supposed to beat a much more talented Nebraska team for a National Championship.
I get clobbered and laughed at for this but the guy DeShaun Watson reminds me of the most is Joe Montana (just compare their college stats and he actually has an edge on Joe) from the style of offense to the perceived lack of arm strength (which laughable) to the consistency of winning to the ability to upset a favorite in the National Championship by erasing a second half deficit (while dominating time of possession). Having said all that, Watson also needs the right taker like Montana did which just might take place in the same exact NFL city of SF.
They all need the right Coaches, surrounding talent, and tools to fit their assets. I'm glad Bernie Kosar had Lindy Infante as his OC instead of a Chris Palmer or Rich Kotite who would have tried to Dr Frankenstein every little imperfection into a train wreck. I imagine a guy like Mahomes can be really fun to watch emerge if someone doesn't try to erase the collective sum of muscle memory built up over time in lieu of just fine tuning a couple things here and there (ie; decision making).
Here's my faves in a class that doesn't thrill me:
1. Mitch Trubisky & DeShaun Watson
2. Patrick Mahomes
3. Josh Dobbs
4. Mystery Meathead Kelly
Bust? Most of the draft analysts and experts say they are all projects so my perspective is there shouldn't be one. Even Kizer's most recent head coach calls him one and I'm sure others have had similar endorsements from their HCs.
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None are worth a 12 or higher.
Best: Watson just because he wins
Most overrated: Trubs-does not seem to have a clue when answering questions and can't even remember most of the question.
Worst: Dobbs -though he has the smarts, he does not seem to possess the arm
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Best: Kizer - especially if he lands with Andy Reid
Bust: Tribusky - only played 13 games and half of them weren't very good. The buzz around him baffles me.
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the best - Trubisky/Kyle Sloter/Peterman (my Brian Sipe type candidate)
the iffiest - Kizer, Watson
not seeing it - Mahomes/Webb/etc.
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None are worth a 12 or higher.
Best: Watson just because he wins
Most overrated: Trubs-does not seem to have a clue when answering questions and can't even remember most of the question.
Worst: Dobbs -though he has the smarts, he does not seem to possess the arm
Most overrated: Trubs-does not seem to have a clue when answering questions and can't even remember most of the question.
Hahaha....thats my take too......real likable kid, but seems too "slow" to be an NFL QB.....and Im not talking 40 times...
Anyone know what Trubs wonderlik score was?....my guess?.....no higher than 15....
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Most overrated: Trubs-does not seem to have a clue when answering questions and can't even remember most of the question.
Hahaha....thats my take too......real likable kid, but seems too "slow" to be an NFL QB.....and Im not talking 40 times...
Anyone know what Trubs wonderlik score was?....my guess?.....no higher than 15....
Hahaha....thats my take too......real likable kid, but seems too "slow" to be an NFL QB.....and Im not talking 40 times...
Anyone know what Trubs wonderlik score was?....my guess?.....no higher than 15....
According to this Workout Metrics Graph, the light bulb looks out to me.
:lol: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/mitch-trubisky/
Edit: But to be fair buried in this article it says he scored a 37 (out of 50) on a practice Wonderlic in preparation for the combine.
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I don't remember Dan Marino, Jim Kelly or Brett Favre looking like they were born to take tests with #2 pencils but they sure could play some Hall of Fame QB. How many years/games into a starting gig did Favre ask "Hey Ty, what the Hell is a nickel?"
When we get a dumb bastard like Weeden - he still doesn't understand he can throw the ball away when he's out of the pocket in his second season. Even worse, when there was time for only 1 play left vrs the Ravens - this was the time he reminded himself if everybody is well covered in the end zone I'll just throw it up to the fans in the stands behind the end zone. As time was expiring, he did just that as the Ratbird fans cheered him. But wait, he had a strong arm though...
When it came to sudden death, Goliath had the stronger arms while David had the accurate sling shot and poise to win.
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I don't remember Dan Marino, Jim Kelly or Brett Favre looking like they were born to take tests with #2 pencils but they sure could play some Hall of Fame QB. How many years/games into a starting gig did Favre ask "Hey Ty, what the Hell is a nickel?"
When we get a dumb bastard like Weeden - he still doesn't understand he can throw the ball away when he's out of the pocket in his second season. Even worse, when there was time for only 1 play left vrs the Ravens - this was the time he reminded himself if everybody is well covered in the end zone I'll just throw it up to the fans in the stands behind the end zone. As time was expiring, he did just that as the Ratbird fans cheered him. But wait, he had a strong arm though...
When it came to sudden death, Goliath had the stronger arms while David had the accurate sling shot and poise to win.
I don't remember Dan Marino, Jim Kelly or Brett Favre looking like they were born to take tests with #2 pencils but they sure could play some Hall of Fame QB.
Right....they are the exceptions when it comes to the wonderlik....and there are exceptions to every rule....thats why people pull out Tom Brady to prove you can get a HOFer in the 6th......but it isnt the rule(or trend), is it?
Personally, I prefer a QB who is smarter than his opponent and has the ability to outsmart the D.....
Every player has a brain.....and a body.....and a talent quotient....
The very very best have all 3......and it goes down from there.....so if you prefer a guy with talent and no brains to a guy with talent and an exceptional mind....I cant help you....
I seem to remember a guy we all loved who did it with limited skills and a lot of brains.....or course, there are guys like Jeff George or Jamrcus Russell who had all the talent and great measureables, but no brains.....So, yeah, we can all pick out an example to suit our preferences....
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I don't remember Dan Marino, Jim Kelly or Brett Favre looking like they were born to take tests with #2 pencils but they sure could play some Hall of Fame QB.
Right....they are the exceptions when it comes to the wonderlik....and there are exceptions to every rule....thats why people pull out Tom Brady to prove you can get a HOFer in the 6th......but it isnt the rule(or trend), is it?
Personally, I prefer a QB who is smarter than his opponent and has the ability to outsmart the D.....
Every player has a brain.....and a body.....and a talent quotient....
The very very best have all 3......and it goes down from there.....so if you prefer a guy with talent and no brains to a guy with talent and an exceptional mind....I cant help you....
I seem to remember a guy we all loved who did it with limited skills and a lot of brains.....or course, there are guys like Jeff George or Jamrcus Russell who had all the talent and great measureables, but no brains.....So, yeah, we can all pick out an example to suit our preferences....
Right....they are the exceptions when it comes to the wonderlik....and there are exceptions to every rule....
Personally, I prefer a QB who is smarter than his opponent and has the ability to outsmart the D.....
Every player has a brain.....and a body.....and a talent quotient....
The very very best have all 3......and it goes down from there.....so if you prefer a guy with talent and no brains to a guy with talent and an exceptional mind....I cant help you....
Agreed. My take is a very dumb jock like Jim Kelly can still be a very smart QB. When I lived in Rochester NY he did commentated a preseason game the Bills were in. He joked that he couldn't remember his Wunderlic score but he thought he got like a 5 on the thing. Then he said, he loved the game enough to be prepared enough to pull off calling his own plays in the no huddle offense they rode to 4 consecutive Superbowls.
A competitive fire like that or a Brett Favre or a Dan Marino (whom I'm told struggled in the Wunderlic) can still lead to a very effective decision maker.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Biggest bust will be Watson. Our targeted guy if we draft instead of trade is Mahomes if he's there at 12 and if not Kizer at 33. Biggest dark horses and guys I'd like to see us use a 6th or later Evans and Sloter. I'd love to grab one of them even if we do draft or trade for someone else.
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Hahaha....thats my take too......real likable kid, but seems too "slow" to be an NFL QB.....and Im not talking 40 times...
Anyone know what Trubs wonderlik score was?....my guess?.....no higher than 15....
According to this Workout Metrics Graph, the light bulb looks out to me.
:lol: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/mitch-trubisky/
Edit: But to be fair buried in this article it says he scored a 37 (out of 50) on a practice Wonderlic in preparation for the combine.
According to this Workout Metrics Graph, the light bulb looks out to me.
:lol: Watching that highlight package makes me pray to the football Gods harder than ever that we don't call his name - with any pick.
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Right....they are the exceptions when it comes to the wonderlik....and there are exceptions to every rule....
Personally, I prefer a QB who is smarter than his opponent and has the ability to outsmart the D.....
Every player has a brain.....and a body.....and a talent quotient....
The very very best have all 3......and it goes down from there.....so if you prefer a guy with talent and no brains to a guy with talent and an exceptional mind....I cant help you....
Agreed. My take is a very dumb jock like Jim Kelly can still be a very smart QB. When I lived in Rochester NY he did commentated a preseason game the Bills were in. He joked that he couldn't remember his Wunderlic score but he thought he got like a 5 on the thing. Then he said, he loved the game enough to be prepared enough to pull off calling his own plays in the no huddle offense they rode to 4 consecutive Superbowls.
A competitive fire like that or a Brett Favre or a Dan Marino (whom I'm told struggled in the Wunderlic) can still lead to a very effective decision maker.
Agreed. My take is a very dumb jock like Jim Kelly can still be a very smart QB. When I lived in Rochester NY he did commentated a preseason game the Bills were in. He joked that he couldn't remember his Wunderlic score but he thought he got like a 5 on the thing. Then he said, he loved the game enough to be prepared enough to pull off calling his own plays in the no huddle offense they rode to 4 consecutive Superbowls.
A competitive fire like that or a Brett Favre or a Dan Marino (whom I'm told struggled in the Wunderlic) can still lead to a very effective decision maker.
Right.....and Id say Favre....Marino.....Kelly had about a million times the visible talent than one Mr. Trubisky....
Id also add.....that all 3 of those guys were great great QB's....no argument there....but the 3 have only 1 SB victory combined ..and something like 6 losses.....so, could it be?....possibly?....that the smarter QB's took them to school?.....or that they didnt have that little extra(smarts) that allowed them to beat the other team?.....I dont know the answer, but it is a question worth asking.....
So...by questioning my calling Trubs a dummy.....are you saying Trubs is the next Favre/Marino/Kelly?
Cause...my point centers around the fact that his physical skills seem average....his limited game tape is average....and his mind seems below average....so where does the "top prospect" stuff come from?.....and how does one, who doesnt appear to have any of those top QB traits get drafted as the #1 prospect?
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