On The Record: Make your QB predictions
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Best: Kizer - especially if he lands with Andy Reid
Bust: Tribusky - only played 13 games and half of them weren't very good. The buzz around him baffles me.
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the best - Trubisky/Kyle Sloter/Peterman (my Brian Sipe type candidate)
the iffiest - Kizer, Watson
not seeing it - Mahomes/Webb/etc.
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None are worth a 12 or higher.
Best: Watson just because he wins
Most overrated: Trubs-does not seem to have a clue when answering questions and can't even remember most of the question.
Worst: Dobbs -though he has the smarts, he does not seem to possess the arm
Most overrated: Trubs-does not seem to have a clue when answering questions and can't even remember most of the question.
Hahaha....thats my take too......real likable kid, but seems too "slow" to be an NFL QB.....and Im not talking 40 times...
Anyone know what Trubs wonderlik score was?....my guess?.....no higher than 15....
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Most overrated: Trubs-does not seem to have a clue when answering questions and can't even remember most of the question.
Hahaha....thats my take too......real likable kid, but seems too "slow" to be an NFL QB.....and Im not talking 40 times...
Anyone know what Trubs wonderlik score was?....my guess?.....no higher than 15....
Hahaha....thats my take too......real likable kid, but seems too "slow" to be an NFL QB.....and Im not talking 40 times...
Anyone know what Trubs wonderlik score was?....my guess?.....no higher than 15....
According to this Workout Metrics Graph, the light bulb looks out to me.
:lol: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/mitch-trubisky/
Edit: But to be fair buried in this article it says he scored a 37 (out of 50) on a practice Wonderlic in preparation for the combine.
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I don't remember Dan Marino, Jim Kelly or Brett Favre looking like they were born to take tests with #2 pencils but they sure could play some Hall of Fame QB. How many years/games into a starting gig did Favre ask "Hey Ty, what the Hell is a nickel?"
When we get a dumb bastard like Weeden - he still doesn't understand he can throw the ball away when he's out of the pocket in his second season. Even worse, when there was time for only 1 play left vrs the Ravens - this was the time he reminded himself if everybody is well covered in the end zone I'll just throw it up to the fans in the stands behind the end zone. As time was expiring, he did just that as the Ratbird fans cheered him. But wait, he had a strong arm though...
When it came to sudden death, Goliath had the stronger arms while David had the accurate sling shot and poise to win.
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I don't remember Dan Marino, Jim Kelly or Brett Favre looking like they were born to take tests with #2 pencils but they sure could play some Hall of Fame QB. How many years/games into a starting gig did Favre ask "Hey Ty, what the Hell is a nickel?"
When we get a dumb bastard like Weeden - he still doesn't understand he can throw the ball away when he's out of the pocket in his second season. Even worse, when there was time for only 1 play left vrs the Ravens - this was the time he reminded himself if everybody is well covered in the end zone I'll just throw it up to the fans in the stands behind the end zone. As time was expiring, he did just that as the Ratbird fans cheered him. But wait, he had a strong arm though...
When it came to sudden death, Goliath had the stronger arms while David had the accurate sling shot and poise to win.
I don't remember Dan Marino, Jim Kelly or Brett Favre looking like they were born to take tests with #2 pencils but they sure could play some Hall of Fame QB.
Right....they are the exceptions when it comes to the wonderlik....and there are exceptions to every rule....thats why people pull out Tom Brady to prove you can get a HOFer in the 6th......but it isnt the rule(or trend), is it?
Personally, I prefer a QB who is smarter than his opponent and has the ability to outsmart the D.....
Every player has a brain.....and a body.....and a talent quotient....
The very very best have all 3......and it goes down from there.....so if you prefer a guy with talent and no brains to a guy with talent and an exceptional mind....I cant help you....
I seem to remember a guy we all loved who did it with limited skills and a lot of brains.....or course, there are guys like Jeff George or Jamrcus Russell who had all the talent and great measureables, but no brains.....So, yeah, we can all pick out an example to suit our preferences....
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I don't remember Dan Marino, Jim Kelly or Brett Favre looking like they were born to take tests with #2 pencils but they sure could play some Hall of Fame QB.
Right....they are the exceptions when it comes to the wonderlik....and there are exceptions to every rule....thats why people pull out Tom Brady to prove you can get a HOFer in the 6th......but it isnt the rule(or trend), is it?
Personally, I prefer a QB who is smarter than his opponent and has the ability to outsmart the D.....
Every player has a brain.....and a body.....and a talent quotient....
The very very best have all 3......and it goes down from there.....so if you prefer a guy with talent and no brains to a guy with talent and an exceptional mind....I cant help you....
I seem to remember a guy we all loved who did it with limited skills and a lot of brains.....or course, there are guys like Jeff George or Jamrcus Russell who had all the talent and great measureables, but no brains.....So, yeah, we can all pick out an example to suit our preferences....
Right....they are the exceptions when it comes to the wonderlik....and there are exceptions to every rule....
Personally, I prefer a QB who is smarter than his opponent and has the ability to outsmart the D.....
Every player has a brain.....and a body.....and a talent quotient....
The very very best have all 3......and it goes down from there.....so if you prefer a guy with talent and no brains to a guy with talent and an exceptional mind....I cant help you....
Agreed. My take is a very dumb jock like Jim Kelly can still be a very smart QB. When I lived in Rochester NY he did commentated a preseason game the Bills were in. He joked that he couldn't remember his Wunderlic score but he thought he got like a 5 on the thing. Then he said, he loved the game enough to be prepared enough to pull off calling his own plays in the no huddle offense they rode to 4 consecutive Superbowls.
A competitive fire like that or a Brett Favre or a Dan Marino (whom I'm told struggled in the Wunderlic) can still lead to a very effective decision maker.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Biggest bust will be Watson. Our targeted guy if we draft instead of trade is Mahomes if he's there at 12 and if not Kizer at 33. Biggest dark horses and guys I'd like to see us use a 6th or later Evans and Sloter. I'd love to grab one of them even if we do draft or trade for someone else.
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Hahaha....thats my take too......real likable kid, but seems too "slow" to be an NFL QB.....and Im not talking 40 times...
Anyone know what Trubs wonderlik score was?....my guess?.....no higher than 15....
According to this Workout Metrics Graph, the light bulb looks out to me.
:lol: https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/mitch-trubisky/
Edit: But to be fair buried in this article it says he scored a 37 (out of 50) on a practice Wonderlic in preparation for the combine.
According to this Workout Metrics Graph, the light bulb looks out to me.
:lol: Watching that highlight package makes me pray to the football Gods harder than ever that we don't call his name - with any pick.
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Right....they are the exceptions when it comes to the wonderlik....and there are exceptions to every rule....
Personally, I prefer a QB who is smarter than his opponent and has the ability to outsmart the D.....
Every player has a brain.....and a body.....and a talent quotient....
The very very best have all 3......and it goes down from there.....so if you prefer a guy with talent and no brains to a guy with talent and an exceptional mind....I cant help you....
Agreed. My take is a very dumb jock like Jim Kelly can still be a very smart QB. When I lived in Rochester NY he did commentated a preseason game the Bills were in. He joked that he couldn't remember his Wunderlic score but he thought he got like a 5 on the thing. Then he said, he loved the game enough to be prepared enough to pull off calling his own plays in the no huddle offense they rode to 4 consecutive Superbowls.
A competitive fire like that or a Brett Favre or a Dan Marino (whom I'm told struggled in the Wunderlic) can still lead to a very effective decision maker.
Agreed. My take is a very dumb jock like Jim Kelly can still be a very smart QB. When I lived in Rochester NY he did commentated a preseason game the Bills were in. He joked that he couldn't remember his Wunderlic score but he thought he got like a 5 on the thing. Then he said, he loved the game enough to be prepared enough to pull off calling his own plays in the no huddle offense they rode to 4 consecutive Superbowls.
A competitive fire like that or a Brett Favre or a Dan Marino (whom I'm told struggled in the Wunderlic) can still lead to a very effective decision maker.
Right.....and Id say Favre....Marino.....Kelly had about a million times the visible talent than one Mr. Trubisky....
Id also add.....that all 3 of those guys were great great QB's....no argument there....but the 3 have only 1 SB victory combined ..and something like 6 losses.....so, could it be?....possibly?....that the smarter QB's took them to school?.....or that they didnt have that little extra(smarts) that allowed them to beat the other team?.....I dont know the answer, but it is a question worth asking.....
So...by questioning my calling Trubs a dummy.....are you saying Trubs is the next Favre/Marino/Kelly?
Cause...my point centers around the fact that his physical skills seem average....his limited game tape is average....and his mind seems below average....so where does the "top prospect" stuff come from?.....and how does one, who doesnt appear to have any of those top QB traits get drafted as the #1 prospect?
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According to this Workout Metrics Graph, the light bulb looks out to me.
:lol: Watching that highlight package makes me pray to the football Gods harder than ever that we don't call his name - with any pick.
Watching that highlight package makes me pray to the football Gods harder than ever that we don't call his name - with any pick.
notice his front leg? at about 4;14 he finally quits falling off his throws & drives a ball in with front leg. It's a bad habit watching him for a couple years now
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I'm not too interested in W-L as an indicator of which QBs will make the transition to the NFL. The list of college QBs who won the biggest game of all over the past decade plus is full of names like Leinart, Young, Tebow, Flynn, McElroy, McCarron, Leak etc. Football is referred to as the ultimate team sport, and with so many moving parts it's irresponsible to put the W-L column on one person. I look for traits, can a prospect break down the play quickly and determine where the ball should go? Can a prospect deliver the ball accurately? These are the questions I need answered when evaluating quarterbacks.
As far as physical traits go, Kizer is the prototype in this class. combined with his intelligence and understanding of the game, he's a great prospect. Kizer may not have the best release, he may have been marooned on a rat shit team with a malignant narcissist for a head coach, and he may need to work on the decisions he makes, but that doesn't mean he can't play football.
LOL, I can play football too, not very well at my advanced age. But your defense of Kizer is duly noted. Hmmm... ya know who's the same size with a cannon arm, noted for making bad decisions? I give you Brandon Wee-done. He also carries the ND curse on his head. Unless a guy from that school is all world (and Kizer isn't) I'm taking him off my draft board.
Now I have a low opinion of Kelly- but- Trubisky may have only played one year @ NC, but at least he didn't get benched. Deshone must have been playing stinko bad to pull off that feat.
PS don't give me that "prototype" crap. You don't have to be 6'4" to be a great NFL qb. Like Brett Farve, Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees.
Kizer has a lot of growing to do, but unlike Weeden he won't enter draft night as a 30 year old mongoloid. He is an intelligent 21 year old who has far greater athletic talent than Weeden and seems to have a good mental grasp on the game of football.LOL, I can play football too, not very well at my advanced age. But your defense of Kizer is duly noted. Hmmm... ya know who's the same size with a cannon arm, noted for making bad decisions? I give you Brandon Wee-done. He also carries the ND curse on his head. Unless a guy from that school is all world (and Kizer isn't) I'm taking him off my draft board.
Now I have a low opinion of Kelly- but- Trubisky may have only played one year @ NC, but at least he didn't get benched. Deshone must have been playing stinko bad to pull off that feat.
PS don't give me that "prototype" crap. You don't have to be 6'4" to be a great NFL qb. Like Brett Farve, Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees.
I never understood how the college a prospect went to has anything to do with his potential. Some bad QBs came out of Notre Dame, but so did Joe Montana. Transversely, were you someone who was begging for Chad Henne because he went to the same school as Tom Brady?
Trubisky has a great release, good accuracy and mobility, but he also made a lot of bad decisions (didn't a referee have a forced fumble on trubs)? The difference is that Trubisky is a mouth breather. Mitch has a lot of desirable traits, but I'm not sure I want to put the future of my franchise in the hands of skinny gronk.
Your third point is absolutely correct, a guy doesn't have to be 6'4" to be a successful NFL QB, but it seems like I've watched a decade of the browns using at least 3 QBs a year. Kizer' size is just an added bonus.
Ultimately, it comes down to my philosophy with this draft class. I don't want any 1st rd QB this year. Trubs and Watson have too many question marks and Mahomes is a riddle wrapped in an enigma. It's looking more and more like Kizer will be available in the mid rounds and while I used to think 33 was a good place to draft a QB, I'm not so sure anymore. There will undoubtedly be 1st round talent available there, so I'm thinking #52 should be the earliest a QB is selected. Of the guys most likely available at 52 or later, I'll take Kizer or Dobbs over the rest, just how I feel about this class.
I say all that to say this, wtf do I know? I'm probably going to be hella wrong about this stuff. I spend my days cleaning Draft Beer systems and drawing goofy shit, if the Browns feel *THE GUY* is available, they better pounce.
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Kizer has a lot of growing to do, but unlike Weeden he won't enter draft night as a 30 year old mongoloid. He is an intelligent 21 year old who has far greater athletic talent than Weeden and seems to have a good mental grasp on the game of football.LOL, I can play football too, not very well at my advanced age. But your defense of Kizer is duly noted. Hmmm... ya know who's the same size with a cannon arm, noted for making bad decisions? I give you Brandon Wee-done. He also carries the ND curse on his head. Unless a guy from that school is all world (and Kizer isn't) I'm taking him off my draft board.
Now I have a low opinion of Kelly- but- Trubisky may have only played one year @ NC, but at least he didn't get benched. Deshone must have been playing stinko bad to pull off that feat.
PS don't give me that "prototype" crap. You don't have to be 6'4" to be a great NFL qb. Like Brett Farve, Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees.
I never understood how the college a prospect went to has anything to do with his potential. Some bad QBs came out of Notre Dame, but so did Joe Montana. Transversely, were you someone who was begging for Chad Henne because he went to the same school as Tom Brady?
Trubisky has a great release, good accuracy and mobility, but he also made a lot of bad decisions (didn't a referee have a forced fumble on trubs)? The difference is that Trubisky is a mouth breather. Mitch has a lot of desirable traits, but I'm not sure I want to put the future of my franchise in the hands of skinny gronk.
Your third point is absolutely correct, a guy doesn't have to be 6'4" to be a successful NFL QB, but it seems like I've watched a decade of the browns using at least 3 QBs a year. Kizer' size is just an added bonus.
Ultimately, it comes down to my philosophy with this draft class. I don't want any 1st rd QB this year. Trubs and Watson have too many question marks and Mahomes is a riddle wrapped in an enigma. It's looking more and more like Kizer will be available in the mid rounds and while I used to think 33 was a good place to draft a QB, I'm not so sure anymore. There will undoubtedly be 1st round talent available there, so I'm thinking #52 should be the earliest a QB is selected. Of the guys most likely available at 52 or later, I'll take Kizer or Dobbs over the rest, just how I feel about this class.
I say all that to say this, wtf do I know? I'm probably going to be hella wrong about this stuff. I spend my days cleaning Draft Beer systems and drawing goofy shit, if the Browns feel *THE GUY* is available, they better pounce.
I say all that to say this, wtf do I know? I'm probably going to be hella wrong about this stuff. I spend my days cleaning Draft Beer systems and drawing goofy shit, if the Browns feel *THE GUY* is available, they better pounce.
This is my perspective....100%
Dont see the guy.....and dont want us to draft one in the top 3 rounds.....
But if the brain trust see's the guy....they shouldnt get cute and hope he falls....just grab him and live or die with the decision...
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I'm not too interested in W-L as an indicator of which QBs will make the transition to the NFL. The list of college QBs who won the biggest game of all over the past decade plus is full of names like Leinart, Young, Tebow, Flynn, McElroy, McCarron, Leak etc. Football is referred to as the ultimate team sport, and with so many moving parts it's irresponsible to put the W-L column on one person. I look for traits, can a prospect break down the play quickly and determine where the ball should go? Can a prospect deliver the ball accurately? These are the questions I need answered when evaluating quarterbacks.
As far as physical traits go, Kizer is the prototype in this class. combined with his intelligence and understanding of the game, he's a great prospect. Kizer may not have the best release, he may have been marooned on a rat shit team with a malignant narcissist for a head coach, and he may need to work on the decisions he makes, but that doesn't mean he can't play football.
LOL, I can play football too, not very well at my advanced age. But your defense of Kizer is duly noted. Hmmm... ya know who's the same size with a cannon arm, noted for making bad decisions? I give you Brandon Wee-done. He also carries the ND curse on his head. Unless a guy from that school is all world (and Kizer isn't) I'm taking him off my draft board.
Now I have a low opinion of Kelly- but- Trubisky may have only played one year @ NC, but at least he didn't get benched. Deshone must have been playing stinko bad to pull off that feat.
PS don't give me that "prototype" crap. You don't have to be 6'4" to be a great NFL qb. Like Brett Farve, Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees.
Wunderlick? OK I guess, but not definitive. Why not just look at what they studied and how well they did?"
No rocket scientists (yet), but Economics vs Phys Ed vs "undeclared"??? And the latter was a senior at the time?
http://sportschatter.com/sports-talk/slideshow/college-major-every-quarterback-nfl/
Trubisky may have only played one year @ NC, but at least he didn't get benched.
Ummmmm... kinda like closing the barn doors after the horses have all run out...
Best: Chad Kelly
Attaboy... I was getting lonely.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Wunderlick? OK I guess, but not definitive. Why not just look at what they studied and how well they did?"
No rocket scientists (yet), but Economics vs Phys Ed vs "undeclared"??? And the latter was a senior at the time?
http://sportschatter.com/sports-talk/slideshow/college-major-every-quarterback-nfl/
Trubisky may have only played one year @ NC, but at least he didn't get benched.
Ummmmm... kinda like closing the barn doors after the horses have all run out...
Best: Chad Kelly
Attaboy... I was getting lonely.
Wunderlick? OK I guess, but not definitive.
Nothing is definitive....hence we have many many things we measure to draw our conclusions....including intelligence and decision making....and the Wonderlic is not just a basic IQ test....is forces you to make quick decisions under pressure....and guess what....there is a correlation between successful NFL QB's and intelligence and decision making under pressure.....in fact, it's a primary requirement....
Here are a few wonderlic factoids for you....
First....50 is a perfect score....so, in essence, a 20 would be 40%....a 30 would be 60%....etc
Right now....of the 32 starting QB's in the league....31 of them scored 20 or higher.....31 out of 32.....(thats a slam dunk for scoring higher than 20, wouldnt you say???
But the average score for a WR is 17.....a RB is 16....CB is 18....LB is 19.....and that is the AVERAGE....while there is only ONE QB below 20....doesnt that say it all right there?.....
Who is below 20?....Tyrod Taylor @ 15....the only weird one I see is Derek Carr, who is the next lowest at 20.....the exception
But the really good ones?.....for the most part(with the prerequisite exception or 2)....are all 30 plus......
Guys like Brady, Ryan, Rodgers, Stafford, Luck, Smith, Rivers, Manning, etc.....are all 30's and higher....
So.....I have no clue what Trubs(or any of the prospects, ftm) score was....but if he got a 15, then Im thinking the odds are against him being successful....and listening to him talk, Im thinking he is at tremendous risk of having a super low score....
On a side note....I mentioned how poorly Corey Colemen came off this week in his interview, so decided to see where he was.....no surprises.....he has one of the lowest scores ever at 10....probably doesnt matter, but certainly is confirmation of what I sensed, when I listened to him speak.....(and I have the same sense with Trubs)
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I've taken online Wunderlick and Wunderlickish tests. It can be prepared for just as SATs or PEs can be... thru practice and a systematic approach.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I've taken online Wunderlick and Wunderlickish tests. It can be prepared for just as SATs or PEs can be... thru practice and a systematic approach.
I've taken online Wunderlick and Wunderlickish tests. It can be prepared for just as SATs or PEs can be... thru practice and a systematic approach.
Yep....and most of these guys take practice tests and prepare for the big one....which is why a 10-15 is something to worry about....
So.....its like the guy who fails the piss test at the combine....is it a bigger problem that he smokes weed or that he's too dumb and uncommitted to show up clean?.....
Same with this test right?.....The smart ones come prepared and pass....the dumb ones dont....
Tour.....what is your view on 31 outta 32 starting QB's being over 20?.....while most other positions average well below(except OT, of course)......does that not ring your bell even a little?.....you? a guy who likes 3 cone tests and long jump #'s....cmon, you gotta know it matters...
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Heres another way to look at it....
All things being equal.....same height weight speed and ability....except one prospect is dumb like a rock and the other is intelligent...who would you pick and why?....
Heres another way to look at it....
All things being equal.....same height weight speed and ability....except one prospect is dumb like a rock and the other is intelligent...who would you pick and why?....
QBs and OL, the smarter one. Everyone else, the dumber. They will play with more abandon.
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