Is Garret really the best DE in this draft
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With everyone all up and arms over Jamal Adams, I don't even think he's the best safety in this draft. Malik Hooker, while raw, has all the tools to be the best defensive player in this draft .The way he high-points the ball, his positioning, instincts, scream all-pro by year 3.
With everyone all up and arms over Jamal Adams, I don't even think he's the best safety in this draft. Malik Hooker, while raw, has all the tools to be the best defensive player in this draft .The way he high-points the ball, his positioning, instincts, scream all-pro by year 3.
to a point, I believe that too, except for Hooker's hip injuries, and the fact that Hooker is a free safety,
and Adams a strong safety. Seems like that is missing from some rankings...
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With everyone all up and arms over Jamal Adams, I don't even think he's the best safety in this draft. Malik Hooker, while raw, has all the tools to be the best defensive player in this draft .The way he high-points the ball, his positioning, instincts, scream all-pro by year 3.
to a point, I believe that too, except for Hooker's hip injuries, and the fact that Hooker is a free safety,
and Adams a strong safety. Seems like that is missing from some rankings...
to a point, I believe that too, except for Hooker's hip injuries, and the fact that Hooker is a free safety,
and Adams a strong safety. Seems like that is missing from some rankings...
Hooker has unlimited range and elite tracking skills. Shades of Ed Reed.
Whereas Jamal Adams is better tackler and a better finisher at POC.
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to a point, I believe that too, except for Hooker's hip injuries, and the fact that Hooker is a free safety,
and Adams a strong safety. Seems like that is missing from some rankings...
Hooker has unlimited range and elite tracking skills. Shades of Ed Reed.
Whereas Jamal Adams is better tackler and a better finisher at POC.
Hooker has unlimited range and elite tracking skills. Shades of Ed Reed.
Whereas Jamal Adams is better tackler and a better finisher at POC.
SO LETS GET BOTH!!! ?
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I feel like we will shake things up and draft Trubisky.
He will sit for a year
We draft OJ Howard,
Go defense the rest of the way
Too late. The Browns defense needs stars, and those are only available in the first round.
Too late. The Browns defense needs stars, and those are only available in the first round.
See Mudfly's thread on "the best". It shows that at just about every position on the field, certainly skill positions, most of the "stars"...HOF caliber players are indeed drafted in the first round.
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@ghoolie said:
He is the best college DE. That doesn't mean he will be the best in the NFL.
why ?
why ?
While I expect the Browns to draft their second player named Garrett with the overall #1 pick, and while I hope that he does not turn out like the other Garrett the Browns took #1 (Bobby...a complete bust), and while I hope he is the next coming of Bruce Smith or Deacon Jones.....the fact is that there ARE concerns:
A. Much of his production came against the cupcakes on the A&M schedule.....his performance took a precipitous dropoff when he came up against the stiffer competition of the SEC.
B. As Sapp said, he takes plays off....and can be lazy at time.
C. His run defense skills may be lacking.
Now, hopefully...all these things can be overcome if the Browns draft him. Even if they are not completely overcome,, hopefully he brings his motor in high gear during passing plays to utilize the skills that so many see in him as a pass rush specialist.
But the concerns are there...and that is the answer to the "why".
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So much is made about measurables - 40 time, arm length, long jump, shuttle time, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada..... There are only two things that make the great players great, and it's their heart and brain.
Bullshit... if it were true Ben Boulware would go #1.
"Heart", "desire", "passion", "motor" plus "football smarts" can only close small "talent" gaps.
I will grant you that all the talent in the world doesn't mean jack, if desire is not there. But just because it's not in your face, does not mean it's not there... and here's proof...
Honestly i wouldnt mind taking garett this year even if we had taken bosa last year, those two would be unfair on the same front 4. However, think what we could command this year with the 1st?
So you finally admit that Bosa would not have improved our 2016 results?
Bullshit... if it were true Ben Boulware would go #1.
"Heart", "desire", "passion", "motor" plus "football smarts" can only close small "talent" gaps.
I will grant you that all the talent in the world doesn't mean jack, if desire is not there. But just because it's not in your face, does not mean it's not there... and here's proof...
905px-Joe_Thomas_Cleveland_Browns_New_Uniform_Unveiling_(17153558101).jpgSo you finally admit that Bosa would not have improved our 2016 results?
lol! Did I attack the very core of your pre-draft experience T?
Take Ray Lewis for example. There were many LBs that were faster than him, jumped higher than him, had longer arms, ect.. (yada, yada), yet there were only a handful in the history of the game that played the sport better than him..... If only I could think of another example..... oh wait, that dude that plays QB in New England is an even better one - dude looked and measured like a baby giraffe.
I'm not saying that measurables should completely be ignored, but they in no way (sorry) predicate if the athlete will be successful..... If only I could think of an example - Oh, sorry David Veikune, I didn't see you there.
Only 4 more days T, 4 more days.......
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Bullshit... if it were true Ben Boulware would go #1.
"Heart", "desire", "passion", "motor" plus "football smarts" can only close small "talent" gaps.
I will grant you that all the talent in the world doesn't mean jack, if desire is not there. But just because it's not in your face, does not mean it's not there... and here's proof...
905px-Joe_Thomas_Cleveland_Browns_New_Uniform_Unveiling_(17153558101).jpgSo you finally admit that Bosa would not have improved our 2016 results?
lol! Did I attack the very core of your pre-draft experience T?
Take Ray Lewis for example. There were many LBs that were faster than him, jumped higher than him, had longer arms, ect.. (yada, yada), yet there were only a handful in the history of the game that played the sport better than him..... If only I could think of another example..... oh wait, that dude that plays QB in New England is an even better one - dude looked and measured like a baby giraffe.
I'm not saying that measurables should completely be ignored, but they in no way (sorry) predicate if the athlete will be successful..... If only I could think of an example - Oh, sorry David Veikune, I didn't see you there.
Only 4 more days T, 4 more days.......
lol! Did I attack the very core of your pre-draft experience T?
Take Ray Lewis for example. There were many LBs that were faster than him, jumped higher than him, had longer arms, ect.. (yada, yada), yet there were only a handful in the history of the game that played the sport better than him..... If only I could think of another example..... oh wait, that dude that plays QB in New England is an even better one - dude looked and measured like a baby giraffe.
I'm not saying that measurables should completely be ignored, but they in no way (sorry) predicate if the athlete will be successful..... If only I could think of an example - Oh, sorry David Veikune, I didn't see you there.
Only 4 more days T, 4 more days.......
3.25...
Wasn't expecting Ray, but I did anticipate a Brady comeback.
Won't bullshit you and say I saw Tom coming... closest I can come is a memory of him impressively leading a 2nd half comeback to beat our Buckeyes in '99... ( http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/osu/graphics/pdf/m-footbl/1999/1999-12-Michigan.pdf )... but his Combine numbers did not suck across the board.
EDIT: That '99 Mich team ended up #5 in the country after beating BAMA in a bowl game shoot out.
Brady's line: 34-46-369, 3 TDs, 0 Ints ( http://bentley.umich.edu/athdept/football/bowls/2000orng.htm )
Yes, his 5.24 time in the 40 was slow, and his vert and broad jumps were laughable, but his 3-cone and 20-yd shuttle times were decent and very competitive within his draft class.... and check out his 10-yd split...
40 Yard Dash: 5.28 seconds; 20 Yard Dash: 2.94 seconds; 10 Yard Dash: 1.70 second
Vertical Leap: 24.5 inches; Broad Jump: 99 inches;
20 Yd Shuttle: 4.38 seconds; Three Cone: 7.20 seconds
Bench Press: (N/A) reps (225 lb); 60 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds
Wonderlic: 33 (0-50)
Combine those 10-yd and 3-cone results and you have "escapability"... but then there was that "topless photo"... of, at 6'4 (or 6'5), the tallest QB in the draft class... and at 211 a player who hadn't quite filled out. Current weight? 225...
http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=4732
Combine data was scarce back in Ray Ray's day (predates DraftScouts and combinereults.com's data bases), so you'll have to dig up all those other LBs who measured better than him, but here are Lewis' raw numbers that I managed to find...
6'1, 240# ( http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1498026-ray-lewis-vs-patrick-willis-comparing-the-past-present-of-the-lb-position )
40 yard dash - 4.58 seconds; 225 bench Press - 34; Vertical leap - 38.5" (at Pro Day numbers at Answers.com and above link)
Not seeing any issues... as in major gaps that "desire" cannot fill...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
to a point, I believe that too, except for Hooker's hip injuries, and the fact that Hooker is a free safety,
and Adams a strong safety. Seems like that is missing from some rankings...
Hooker has unlimited range and elite tracking skills. Shades of Ed Reed.
Whereas Jamal Adams is better tackler and a better finisher at POC.
Hooker has unlimited range and elite tracking skills. Shades of Ed Reed.
Whereas Jamal Adams is better tackler and a better finisher at POC.
Range? Yes. Unlimited? Hyperbole?
"Elite tackling skills"? Ummmm... no...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Hooker has unlimited range and elite tracking skills. Shades of Ed Reed.
Whereas Jamal Adams is better tackler and a better finisher at POC.
Range? Yes. Unlimited? Hyperbole?
"Elite tackling skills"? Ummmm... no...
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So much is made about measurables - 40 time, arm length, long jump, shuttle time, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada..... There are only two things that make the great players great, and it's their heart and brain.
Bullshit... if it were true Ben Boulware would go #1.
"Heart", "desire", "passion", "motor" plus "football smarts" can only close small "talent" gaps.
I will grant you that all the talent in the world doesn't mean jack, if desire is not there. But just because it's not in your face, does not mean it's not there... and here's proof...
Honestly i wouldnt mind taking garett this year even if we had taken bosa last year, those two would be unfair on the same front 4. However, think what we could command this year with the 1st?
So you finally admit that Bosa would not have improved our 2016 results?
So you finally admit that Bosa would not have improved our 2016 results?
I never ever contended one single player would change this teams fortunes. But it doesnt matter u take players like bosa when they're there for u. U have to surround them with other competent players, always acknowledged that.
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So much is made about measurables - 40 time, arm length, long jump, shuttle time, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada..... There are only two things that make the great players great, and it's their heart and brain.
Bullshit... if it were true Ben Boulware would go #1.
"Heart", "desire", "passion", "motor" plus "football smarts" can only close small "talent" gaps.
I will grant you that all the talent in the world doesn't mean jack, if desire is not there. But just because it's not in your face, does not mean it's not there... and here's proof...
Honestly i wouldnt mind taking garett this year even if we had taken bosa last year, those two would be unfair on the same front 4. However, think what we could command this year with the 1st?
So you finally admit that Bosa would not have improved our 2016 results?
So you finally admit that Bosa would not have improved our 2016 results?
I wouldnt be quick to admit that......Jamie Collins made a noticeable difference....and I think with Bosa, maybe a few more big plays woulda happened.....and one or 2 of those might have been the difference....
Range? Yes. Unlimited? Hyperbole?
"Elite tackling skills"? Ummmm... no...
Exactly......tackling = NO................tracking = elite
But...listen.....a safety who doesnt tackle well cannot be considered an elite prospect.....(especially an injured one)
He said elite tracking skills. It may not be elite, but it's damn close
See above....he's got mad ball skills, but thats it.....not really a well rounded candidate...(imho)(at least, for the price)
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For the umpteenth time. SEC East is NOT SEC West. Apples and oranges. Plus SEC OC's set their gameplans to stay away and double/triple team Garrett. Not so much on Barnett.
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Well apparently Garrett scored a 31 on the wonderlic, whatever that means...
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@ghoolie said:
He is the best college DE. That doesn't mean he will be the best in the NFL.
why ?
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Hooker has unlimited range and elite tracking skills. Shades of Ed Reed.
Whereas Jamal Adams is better tackler and a better finisher at POC.
Range? Yes. Unlimited? Hyperbole?
"Elite tackling skills"? Ummmm... no...
Range? Yes. Unlimited? Hyperbole?
"Elite tackling skills"? Ummmm... no...
Tad hyperbole with 'unlimited' range, but I'm certain you understood my point. His football speed and hip fluidity and remind me of a taller, longer Ed Reed.
And yes, elite tracking skills. Often times, players with multiple interceptions have the football fall into their lap. If you watch his interceptions, he earned most of them. How many safeties can you point out that can beat receivers in the air for the ball?
Being a former cornerback, the one thing I can't help but notice is a DB's backpedal, so a few things I can point out are his upright stance during man coverage, and slow awareness during zone. Both very teachable considering its his first year starting.
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So you finally admit that Bosa would not have improved our 2016 results?
I wouldnt be quick to admit that......Jamie Collins made a noticeable difference....and I think with Bosa, maybe a few more big plays woulda happened.....and one or 2 of those might have been the difference....
Range? Yes. Unlimited? Hyperbole?
"Elite tackling skills"? Ummmm... no...
Exactly......tackling = NO................tracking = elite
But...listen.....a safety who doesnt tackle well cannot be considered an elite prospect.....(especially an injured one)
He said elite tracking skills. It may not be elite, but it's damn close
See above....he's got mad ball skills, but thats it.....not really a well rounded candidate...(imho)(at least, for the price)
I wouldnt be quick to admit that......Jamie Collins made a noticeable difference....and I think with Bosa, maybe a few more big plays woulda happened.....and one or 2 of those might have been the difference....
)
Even if he wouldnt have made a difference in the overall record, wouldnt it have been nice to see 10.5 sacks from a browns player? I mean we have fuckall to root for which is why people went nuts for gordon despite everything. That explosive play on offense or defense that fans of other teams take for granted, i feel cleveland fans just savor more.
Lols. But srsly, watching an opposing rb heading for the gap then all of a sudden the huge tackle leading the way gets shedded like used tp and a browns jersey collapses the hole and the play gets stuffed...........yyyeeaahhhhhhh, thats what i want
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Range? Yes. Unlimited? Hyperbole?
"Elite tackling skills"? Ummmm... no...
Tad hyperbole with 'unlimited' range, but I'm certain you understood my point. His football speed and hip fluidity and remind me of a taller, longer Ed Reed.
And yes, elite tracking skills. Often times, players with multiple interceptions have the football fall into their lap. If you watch his interceptions, he earned most of them. How many safeties can you point out that can beat receivers in the air for the ball?
Being a former cornerback, the one thing I can't help but notice is a DB's backpedal, so a few things I can point out are his upright stance during man coverage, and slow awareness during zone. Both very teachable considering its his first year starting.
Tad hyperbole with 'unlimited' range, but I'm certain you understood my point. His football speed and hip fluidity and remind me of a taller, longer Ed Reed.
I mean, if we want a guy with superior "hip fluidity" we should go with this guy:
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