On The Record: Make your QB predictions
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Wonderlic scores
Beathard 26
Dobbs 29
Kaaya 34
Kizer 28
Knight 30
Mahomes 24
Peterman 33
Tribusky 25
Watson 20
Webb 25
Wonderlic scores
Beathard 26
Dobbs 29
Kaaya 34
Kizer 28
Knight 30
Mahomes 24
Peterman 33
Tribusky 25
Watson 20
Webb 25
Watson having a Wonderlich of 20....and an arm speed of only 49 are two big demerits on him.
I understand that people say he has leadership and confidence...but is that enough?
For those reasons, I will give him the "most likely bust" label. (plus...I don't think that any QB that is drafted below round 2 should ever be considered a "bust"...as QBs drafted that low come in with expectations of being a backup at best).
Best will be Trubisky. Does he have a lot to learn? Absolutely. But, I assume this is a long term...crockpot question, not a microwave...immediate gratification question.
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That 49mph has, I believe, since been revised even lower to 45mph because of the gun used. Far far too low a speed to be considered draftable.
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I've taken online Wunderlick and Wunderlickish tests. It can be prepared for just as SATs or PEs can be... thru practice and a systematic approach.
Yep....and most of these guys take practice tests and prepare for the big one....which is why a 10-15 is something to worry about....
So.....its like the guy who fails the piss test at the combine....is it a bigger problem that he smokes weed or that he's too dumb and uncommitted to show up clean?.....
Same with this test right?.....The smart ones come prepared and pass....the dumb ones dont....
Tour.....what is your view on 31 outta 32 starting QB's being over 20?.....while most other positions average well below(except OT, of course)......does that not ring your bell even a little?.....you? a guy who likes 3 cone tests and long jump #'s....cmon, you gotta know it matters...
Tour.....what is your view on 31 outta 32 starting QB's being over 20?.....while most other positions average well below(except OT, of course)......does that not ring your bell even a little?.....you? a guy who likes 3 cone tests and long jump #'s....cmon, you gotta know it matters...
Not meaning to completely dismiss the test, Mud. Yes, I think a low score is problematic. It potentially signals a general lack of intelligence, but more likely either a lack of prep or processing speed.
I've met a lot of very desk-smart people in my engineering life who couldn't think on their feet. If the Wunderlick does nothing else, it puts a premium on speed of thought... a key factor in any QB's success. While prep can enhance a score, it can't manufacture one.
So the question becomes: Is there a minimum acceptable score, and if so, what is it? My guess is that there is a score at which the probability of success drops off dramatically. Twenty seems as good of a number as any, especially if it's statistically supported by NFL performance and adjusted for test-to-test variation (just as SATs are).
Then the question becomes: Once that minimum is exceeded, does higher mean better or more likely to succeed? I doubt that, if for no other reason than that anecdotally Fitzgerald exists... but again, stats have to determine whether or not the probability of success flat-lines above some score.
No matter the measure... 40-time, Vert leap, 3-cone, pass velocity or Wunderlick... I don't see absolutes; I don't see performance "guarantees". But sure there can be concerns raised as well as positive takes reinforced.
OR... as LB succinctly put it...
I saw a draft guy on twitter make a comment that made sense to me, high scores don't make you pick anybody but a really low one and you do take notice and want to know why
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Wonderlic scores
Beathard 26
Dobbs 29
Kaaya 34
Kizer 28
Knight 30
Mahomes 24
Peterman 33
Tribusky 25
Watson 20
Webb 25
Wonderlic scores: Beathard 26 - Dobbs 29 - Kaaya 34 - Kizer 28 - Knight 30 - Mahomes 24 - Peterman 33 - Tribusky 25 - Watson 20 - Webb 25
Talk about confirmation bias... I just watched the Gruden episodes for Peterman, Kaaya and Dobbs late last nite... in that order.
Peterman's maturity impressed, but it was Kaaya that blew me away. Both bested my previous blew-me-away-Gruden-Camp-leader-in-the-clubhouse, Kizer.
Dobbs? Could not help but think "goofy geek" for most of his classroom time... and I don't see NFL players rallying to a goofy-geek. But there was one parting moment on-field, when he offered a life lesson to those who participated in his field session:
"Football... we do it a lot. Some people get burned out. You don't get burned out because of what you do; you get burned out because you forget why you do it. So don't forget your purpose."
Not just what he said, but the way he said it without a hint of "goofy".
The thought also struck me that there are elements in nearly every Gruden segment that are identical, e.g., "What are you listening to?", "R.C.E.", etc., but this is the first time I remember seeing Gruden ask the prospect for any "words of wisdom" at the tail-end huddle-up. I doubt it was the first time he asked. More likely it's the first time the reply was broadcast worthy.
That feels like it should be worth something.
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Wonderlic scores
Beathard 26
Dobbs 29
Kaaya 34
Kizer 28
Knight 30
Mahomes 24
Peterman 33
Tribusky 25
Watson 20
Webb 25
If those are accurate London, Trubs passes the smartness test. MHO the way a guy talks has little correlation with his intelligence. PS, not surprised Dobbs did well with a college major of Aerospace Engineering.Wonderlic scores
Beathard 26
Dobbs 29
Kaaya 34
Kizer 28
Knight 30
Mahomes 24
Peterman 33
Tribusky 25
Watson 20
Webb 25
So yeah Tour, we do have a Rocket Scientist in this draft class.
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If those are accurate London, Trubs passes the smartness test. MHO the way a guy talks has little correlation with his intelligence. PS, not surprised Dobbs did well with a college major of Aerospace Engineering.Wonderlic scores
Beathard 26
Dobbs 29
Kaaya 34
Kizer 28
Knight 30
Mahomes 24
Peterman 33
Tribusky 25
Watson 20
Webb 25
So yeah Tour, we do have a Rocket Scientist in this draft class.
If those are accurate London,
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Not surprisingly Sackosaurus (MG) put up a 31.
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If those are accurate London, Trubs passes the smartness test. MHO the way a guy talks has little correlation with his intelligence. PS, not surprised Dobbs did well with a college major of Aerospace Engineering.Wonderlic scores
Beathard 26
Dobbs 29
Kaaya 34
Kizer 28
Knight 30
Mahomes 24
Peterman 33
Tribusky 25
Watson 20
Webb 25
So yeah Tour, we do have a Rocket Scientist in this draft class.
If those are accurate London, Trubs passes the smartness test. MHO the way a guy talks has little correlation with his intelligence. PS, not surprised Dobbs did well with a college major of Aerospace Engineering.
So yeah Tour, we do have a Rocket Scientist in this draft class.
Glad he did ok.....25 suits me fine and is 5 ticks above 20, which seems to be the cut off/////\\\
But...how he talks isnt really the issue....myself and MANY others think he comes off as kinda stupid....slow at the board....and, yeah, slow at responding to basic questions.....and, with a QB, you hope for and expect a quick sharp mind.....thats all......
Im thinking you will get your wish too.....feeling more and more like the Browns are working on a way to get him......
It worries me(a lot)....but would be a GREAT story if he came here and ended up being the guy to turn it around......
We can all dream........
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I can accept Trubs if they trade up for him, just please no Watson! I don't trust his ability to either stay healthy or avoid being a 20 INT guy on a yearly basis. Trubisky is just a goofball who looks like he was alcohol poisoned in the womb, Watson has some serious concerns for a 1st rounder.
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The biggest bust = the one that we draft in round 1.
The best = all of the 'other' QB's.
('cuz that's how we roll)
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I just read an article where Banner says that in February, Manziel was not even on their draft board. Then he & Lombatami got fired, Ray Farmer got promoted...and Manziel got drafted.
...I wonder which QB Haslam wants THIS time around?
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Kiser
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If those are accurate London, Trubs passes the smartness test. MHO the way a guy talks has little correlation with his intelligence. PS, not surprised Dobbs did well with a college major of Aerospace Engineering.
So yeah Tour, we do have a Rocket Scientist in this draft class.
Glad he did ok.....25 suits me fine and is 5 ticks above 20, which seems to be the cut off/////\\\
But...how he talks isnt really the issue....myself and MANY others think he comes off as kinda stupid....slow at the board....and, yeah, slow at responding to basic questions.....and, with a QB, you hope for and expect a quick sharp mind.....thats all......
Im thinking you will get your wish too.....feeling more and more like the Browns are working on a way to get him......
It worries me(a lot)....but would be a GREAT story if he came here and ended up being the guy to turn it around......
We can all dream........
Glad he did ok.....25 suits me fine and is 5 ticks above 20, which seems to be the cut off/////\\\
But...how he talks isnt really the issue....myself and MANY others think he comes off as kinda stupid....slow at the board....and, yeah, slow at responding to basic questions.....and, with a QB, you hope for and expect a quick sharp mind.....thats all......
Im thinking you will get your wish too.....feeling more and more like the Browns are working on a way to get him......
It worries me(a lot)....but would be a GREAT story if he came here and ended up being the guy to turn it around......
We can all dream........
Too bad they don't do the "Dot" test like I've seen in a few places. Measure of reaction time, just expand it a little. Black 3' X 3' screen, flash red dots X 10 sequentially on it at random spots, see how long it takes someone to touch all of them.
Yes Mud, I realize the speed of the pro game is way faster than college, but to my untrained eye Mitch has a pretty fast release. Now if you're positing he's going to be easily confused by the complexity of pro defenses- that remains to be seen. I posted in another thread @ Gruden's qb camp they broke down Trubs two bad interceptions he tossed in the Stanford Bowl game. Chalk it up to inexperience, as Mitch admitted they used pro style stunting that he had never seen before. So the big question is- can he learn from his mistakes? I hope so, or I'm going to be dead wrong about him. The last qb I was this high on was Tim Couch- and we all know what happened there. I like to think my track record since on QBs is pretty good. Didn't want any of our last three first round qbs, and I would have puked if we had done the Redskins thing to move up and draft RG III. Speaking of Robert, I believe he's still unemployed.
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Glad he did ok.....25 suits me fine and is 5 ticks above 20, which seems to be the cut off/////\\\
But...how he talks isnt really the issue....myself and MANY others think he comes off as kinda stupid....slow at the board....and, yeah, slow at responding to basic questions.....and, with a QB, you hope for and expect a quick sharp mind.....thats all......
Im thinking you will get your wish too.....feeling more and more like the Browns are working on a way to get him......
It worries me(a lot)....but would be a GREAT story if he came here and ended up being the guy to turn it around......
We can all dream........
Too bad they don't do the "Dot" test like I've seen in a few places. Measure of reaction time, just expand it a little. Black 3' X 3' screen, flash red dots X 10 sequentially on it at random spots, see how long it takes someone to touch all of them.
Yes Mud, I realize the speed of the pro game is way faster than college, but to my untrained eye Mitch has a pretty fast release. Now if you're positing he's going to be easily confused by the complexity of pro defenses- that remains to be seen. I posted in another thread @ Gruden's qb camp they broke down Trubs two bad interceptions he tossed in the Stanford Bowl game. Chalk it up to inexperience, as Mitch admitted they used pro style stunting that he had never seen before. So the big question is- can he learn from his mistakes? I hope so, or I'm going to be dead wrong about him. The last qb I was this high on was Tim Couch- and we all know what happened there. I like to think my track record since on QBs is pretty good. Didn't want any of our last three first round qbs, and I would have puked if we had done the Redskins thing to move up and draft RG III. Speaking of Robert, I believe he's still unemployed.
Too bad they don't do the "Dot" test like I've seen in a few places. Measure of reaction time, just expand it a little. Black 3' X 3' screen, flash red dots X 10 sequentially on it at random spots, see how long it takes someone to touch all of them.
Yes Mud, I realize the speed of the pro game is way faster than college, but to my untrained eye Mitch has a pretty fast release. Now if you're positing he's going to be easily confused by the complexity of pro defenses- that remains to be seen. I posted in another thread @ Gruden's qb camp they broke down Trubs two bad interceptions he tossed in the Stanford Bowl game. Chalk it up to inexperience, as Mitch admitted they used pro style stunting that he had never seen before. So the big question is- can he learn from his mistakes? I hope so, or I'm going to be dead wrong about him. The last qb I was this high on was Tim Couch- and we all know what happened there. I like to think my track record since on QBs is pretty good. Didn't want any of our last three first round qbs, and I would have puked if we had done the Redskins thing to move up and draft RG III. Speaking of Robert, I believe he's still unemployed.
Couch was the last one I liked too.....
Listen....if they draft Trubs....I promise 2 things.....
1) I will bitch about it and bemoan a few guys we passed....then....
2) ... I will get excited and get behind him, till he proves he's not worthy.....if I could do it with Johnny, I certainly can do it for Trubs...
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I have been anti-Kaaya for a while, but he may have a good NFL career. His QB camp was extremely impressive and he's clearly a quick thinker. If he can play from a dirty pocket the way he plays from a clean one, he'll be a Pro Bowler.
But here's my list, in order from most successful overall career to least successful:
Kizer
Kaaya
Dobbs
Watson
Trubisky
Peterman
Mahomes
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The biggest bust = the one that we draft in round 1.
The best = all of the 'other' QB's.
('cuz that's how we roll)
----------
I just read an article where Banner says that in February, Manziel was not even on their draft board. Then he & Lombatami got fired, Ray Farmer got promoted...and Manziel got drafted.
...I wonder which QB Haslam wants THIS time around?
I just read an article where Banner says that in February, Manziel was not even on their draft board. Then he & Lombatami got fired, Ray Farmer got promoted...and Manziel got drafted....I wonder which QB Haslam wants THIS time around?
I think I'd love to read that, if you have the link... but I'm not sure I would...
Kiser
As long as he's not a Kiser and Teller...
Hey! It's early...
Listen....if they draft Trubs....I promise 2 things.....
1) I will bitch about it and bemoan a few guys we passed....then....
2) ... I will get excited and get behind him, till he proves he's not worthy.....if I could do it with Johnny, I certainly can do it for Trubs...
Sign me up...
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Glad he did ok.....25 suits me fine and is 5 ticks above 20, which seems to be the cut off/////\\\
But...how he talks isnt really the issue....myself and MANY others think he comes off as kinda stupid....slow at the board....and, yeah, slow at responding to basic questions.....and, with a QB, you hope for and expect a quick sharp mind.....thats all......
Im thinking you will get your wish too.....feeling more and more like the Browns are working on a way to get him......
It worries me(a lot)....but would be a GREAT story if he came here and ended up being the guy to turn it around......
We can all dream........
Too bad they don't do the "Dot" test like I've seen in a few places. Measure of reaction time, just expand it a little. Black 3' X 3' screen, flash red dots X 10 sequentially on it at random spots, see how long it takes someone to touch all of them.
Yes Mud, I realize the speed of the pro game is way faster than college, but to my untrained eye Mitch has a pretty fast release. Now if you're positing he's going to be easily confused by the complexity of pro defenses- that remains to be seen. I posted in another thread @ Gruden's qb camp they broke down Trubs two bad interceptions he tossed in the Stanford Bowl game. Chalk it up to inexperience, as Mitch admitted they used pro style stunting that he had never seen before. So the big question is- can he learn from his mistakes? I hope so, or I'm going to be dead wrong about him. The last qb I was this high on was Tim Couch- and we all know what happened there. I like to think my track record since on QBs is pretty good. Didn't want any of our last three first round qbs, and I would have puked if we had done the Redskins thing to move up and draft RG III. Speaking of Robert, I believe he's still unemployed.
Too bad they don't do the "Dot" test like I've seen in a few places. Measure of reaction time, just expand it a little. Black 3' X 3' screen, flash red dots X 10 sequentially on it at random spots, see how long it takes someone to touch all of them.
Yes Mud, I realize the speed of the pro game is way faster than college, but to my untrained eye Mitch has a pretty fast release. Now if you're positing he's going to be easily confused by the complexity of pro defenses- that remains to be seen. I posted in another thread @ Gruden's qb camp they broke down Trubs two bad interceptions he tossed in the Stanford Bowl game. Chalk it up to inexperience, as Mitch admitted they used pro style stunting that he had never seen before. So the big question is- can he learn from his mistakes? I hope so, or I'm going to be dead wrong about him. The last qb I was this high on was Tim Couch- and we all know what happened there. I like to think my track record since on QBs is pretty good. Didn't want any of our last three first round qbs, and I would have puked if we had done the Redskins thing to move up and draft RG III. Speaking of Robert, I believe he's still unemployed.
How about this:
Make it a required testing procedure for players at the combine to play Whack-A-Mole and test their reaction times.
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I have been anti-Kaaya for a while, but he may have a good NFL career. His QB camp was extremely impressive and he's clearly a quick thinker. If he can play from a dirty pocket the way he plays from a clean one, he'll be a Pro Bowler.
But here's my list, in order from most successful overall career to least successful:
Kizer
Kaaya
Dobbs
Watson
Trubisky
Peterman
Mahomes
I have been anti-Kaaya for a while, but he may have a good NFL career. His QB camp was extremely impressive and he's clearly a quick thinker. If he can play from a dirty pocket the way he plays from a clean one, he'll be a Pro Bowler.
But here's my list, in order from most successful overall career to least successful:
Kizer
Kaaya
Dobbs
Watson
Trubisky
Peterman
Mahomes
Boy that Mahomes love (or at least intrigue) was short-lived.
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The best is KIzer. Has all of the tools, and will quickly loose the millennial facade.
The bust will be Watson. Good attitude, but the tools are not as sharp. With the right team I guess anything would be possible for either.
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I have been anti-Kaaya for a while, but he may have a good NFL career. His QB camp was extremely impressive and he's clearly a quick thinker. If he can play from a dirty pocket the way he plays from a clean one, he'll be a Pro Bowler.
But here's my list, in order from most successful overall career to least successful:
Kizer
Kaaya
Dobbs
Watson
Trubisky
Peterman
Mahomes
Boy that Mahomes love (or at least intrigue) was short-lived.
Boy that Mahomes love (or at least intrigue) was short-lived.
For me? Wasn't much love here - I was intrigued by him back in September, but the more I watched...the less I liked.
Reverse for Kaaya, I thought he was awful at the beginning of the season. I still think he's kind of bad but possesses enough transferable skills.
It just goes to show how preseason and early season opinions change.
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The best is KIzer. Has all of the tools, and will quickly loose the millennial facade.
The bust will be Watson. Good attitude, but the tools are not as sharp. With the right team I guess anything would be possible for either.
The best is KIzer. Has all of the tools, and will quickly loose the millennial facade.
The bust will be Watson. Good attitude, but the tools are not as sharp. With the right team I guess anything would be possible for either.
I think both of them will bust. Kizer won't get drafted until Friday.
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