Todd Marinovich back in football
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And here are the MLBs:
2017 Pro Bowlers (many more because players bugged out due to injury):
Zach Brown 6'1 242
Ryan Shazier 6'2 229
CJ Mosley 6'2 238
Donta Hightower 6'3 265
Bobby Wagner 6'0 241
Sean Lee 6'2 229
Luke Kuechley 6'3 235
1970 Pro Bowlers:
Dick Butkus 6'3 245
Willie Lanier 6'1 245
Mick Curtis 6'3 232
Tommy Nobis 6'2 240
absolutely no difference...in fact, on average I think the 1970 group outweighs the 2017 group.
(Donta Hightower is an exception...he is like 25 pounds heavier than his fellow 2017 MLBs)
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Just for shits and giggles, let's look at the QBs. This is a bit skewed because these days the QBs pussy out of the Pro Bowl...so you have 10 Pro Bowl QBs. Where, in 1970, each conference only had two QBs:
1970
John Brodie 6'1 198
Darryl Lamonica 6'4 215
Bob Griese 6'0 190
Fran Tarkenton 6'0 190
2017
Alex Smith 6'4 215
Ben R. 6'5 241
Derek Carr 6'3 218
Tom Brady 6'4 225
Andy Dalton 6'2 220
Drew Brees 6'0 209
Kirk Cousin 6'3 210
Dak Prescott 6'2 229
Aaron Rodgers 6'2 225
Matt Ryan 6'4 220
This group of QBs is overall taller than 1970 (I think the 1970 Pro Bowl group was pretty short...
thought 6'1 was a common height: Unitas, Bart Starr.
Others that may have made a Pro Bowl if they let in 10 guys could include the 6'5 Roman Gabriel. 6'4 Craig Morton. The 6'3 Terry Bradshaw, and a few others. But, yes, QBs today are generally taller.
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Just to complete the circle Olson and two other guys weighed 270# on the 1975 Rams. Blanda and other skilled players were getting hit by smaller dudes back then. It's strange when you go back in time and find out how your memory can play tricks on you....the steel curtain and fearsome foursome weren't really that big afterall.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/1975_roster.htm
I think you are right....YOUR memory IS playing tricks on you. As I said....the size of nearly everyone back then is no smaller now than they are today except for OL....and actually just DTs/NTs.
DEs are about the same: Deacon Jones was 6'5" 275. Myles Garrett is 6'5" 271
Yes, DT Joe Greene was 275. DTs today do top 300. On defense ONLY DTs are bigger now than they were in the 60/70s.
As I said, most of the weight gain are with DTs and OL.
So, the answer is: bullshit....Blanda et al were NOT being hit by smaller guys. Except on rare occasions.
I think you are right....YOUR memory IS playing tricks on you. As I said....the size of nearly everyone back then is no smaller now than they are today except for OL....and actually just DTs/NTs.
DEs are about the same: Deacon Jones was 6'5" 275. Myles Garrett is 6'5" 271
Yes, DT Joe Greene was 275. DTs today do top 300. On defense ONLY DTs are bigger now than they were in the 60/70s.
As I said, most of the weight gain are with DTs and OL.
So, the answer is: bullshit....Blanda et al were NOT being hit by smaller guys. Except on rare occasions.
I was replying to the Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen comment, they were the biggest guys on their teams and smaller than most NCAA and PRO players today. The 250, 260 guys would get crushed by the 300 and 310 today.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
1964 BROWNS only two 270# DEs on the team all the rest way less.
NOTE: NOT THE ROSTER I WANTED BUT CLOSE:
http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20141227/NEWS/141229705
1974 SB CHAMP STEELERS Joe Green 6' 4" 275# all the rest weigh less some much less. NO 300# dudes back then.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/1974_roster.htm
Some of those dudes would have trouble making a 2017 roster. Different game now, even NCAA rosters are fast strong and B-I-G.
The lineman are bigger on both sides of the ball. Particularly on offense. Which would presume a qb like Blanda would actually be better protected today, not "killed" because the guys are bigger.
Z
Zombo said:
The lineman are bigger on both sides of the ball. Particularly on offense. Which would presume a qb like Blanda would actually be better protected today, not "killed" because the guys are bigger.
Z
But getting hit by today's bigger defensive players would have ended his career earlier.....hypothetically of course because 2000 guys can't play 1960 and 1970 guys. I'll bet anything if you ask them now they would agree that today's players are stronger, faster, bigger, deadlier.
All I've heard comment on it agree.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
In the NFL, quarterbacks are bigger than ever. How big? At 6-foot-5 and 250 pounds, Cam Newton is bigger than most offensive linemen in the 1960s.
Of course, nowadays, offensive linemen are much bigger than that. The average guard, tackle, or center in the NFL in 2015 is 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.
Of the 159 players who have started at least four games as an offensive lineman since the start of the 2014 season, only 23 weigh less than 300 pounds and 39 weigh at least 320 pounds.
To put the sizes in perspective, let's compare the average size for an offensive lineman through the years to an active player.
In the 1940s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's tall running backs, 6-foot-1, 221 pounds.
In the 1950s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as a quarterback today, 6-foot-2, 234 pounds.
In the 1960s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's linebackers, 6-foot-3, 251 pounds.
In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's outside linebackers, 6-foot-3, 255 pounds.
In the 1980s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 272 pounds.
In the 1990s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's bigger defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 300 pounds.
In the 2000s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's centers, 6-foot-4, 313 pounds.
In 2015, the Bryan Bulaga is the average offensive lineman at 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Zombo said:
The lineman are bigger on both sides of the ball. Particularly on offense. Which would presume a qb like Blanda would actually be better protected today, not "killed" because the guys are bigger.
Z
But getting hit by today's bigger defensive players would have ended his career earlier.....hypothetically of course because 2000 guys can't play 1960 and 1970 guys. I'll bet anything if you ask them now they would agree that today's players are stronger, faster, bigger, deadlier.
All I've heard comment on it agree.
But getting hit by today's bigger defensive players would have ended his career earlier.....hypothetically of course because 2000 guys can't play 1960 and 1970 guys. I'll bet anything if you ask them now they would agree that today's players are stronger, faster, bigger, deadlier.
All I've heard comment on it agree.
Not saying the players aren't physically more impressive. I'm saying he could still be a 40 year old 3rd string qb in this era coming off the bench leading comebacks
Brunnell, Moon, Testeverde, Flutie, Deberg ...all played in to their 40s in this era, none of them died.
Zombo
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Just to complete the circle Olson and two other guys weighed 270# on the 1975 Rams. Blanda and other skilled players were getting hit by smaller dudes back then. It's strange when you go back in time and find out how your memory can play tricks on you....the steel curtain and fearsome foursome weren't really that big afterall.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/1975_roster.htm
I think you are right....YOUR memory IS playing tricks on you. As I said....the size of nearly everyone back then is no smaller now than they are today except for OL....and actually just DTs/NTs.
DEs are about the same: Deacon Jones was 6'5" 275. Myles Garrett is 6'5" 271
Yes, DT Joe Greene was 275. DTs today do top 300. On defense ONLY DTs are bigger now than they were in the 60/70s.
As I said, most of the weight gain are with DTs and OL.
So, the answer is: bullshit....Blanda et al were NOT being hit by smaller guys. Except on rare occasions.
I think you are right....YOUR memory IS playing tricks on you. As I said....the size of nearly everyone back then is no smaller now than they are today except for OL....and actually just DTs/NTs.
DEs are about the same: Deacon Jones was 6'5" 275. Myles Garrett is 6'5" 271
Yes, DT Joe Greene was 275. DTs today do top 300. On defense ONLY DTs are bigger now than they were in the 60/70s.
As I said, most of the weight gain are with DTs and OL.
So, the answer is: bullshit....Blanda et al were NOT being hit by smaller guys. Except on rare occasions.
Point of parlimentary procedure, today's players have greater muscle mass and speed. The impact today is far harder than in Blanda's day. Hence the much shorter NFL career expectancy today.
Players today don't use steroids any longer. Steroids which the liver converted to testosterone in the liver were the first technology to make more muscular, leaner players. Deacon Jones never had the muscle mass and speed that Garrett has, Today, all players take testosterone to get super lean and put on more muscle mass.
They are different Gipper, absolutely. In his day, at 6' 2" and 230 - 235 Jim Brown was a big back. Today, he would be average size. It isn't that today's players are bigger weight wise, as much as they have more muscle mass. If you look at individual size, your argument holds some water, but if you take the entire fraternity of football players? Today's guys would crush the 1964 Browns.Monte Clark at 6' 6" 265 was indeed big, but he was not built like today's guys.
Bigger? I think they are, and for sure collectively as the league. Those old guys were smooth skinned. These kids today are monsters.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
But getting hit by today's bigger defensive players would have ended his career earlier.....hypothetically of course because 2000 guys can't play 1960 and 1970 guys. I'll bet anything if you ask them now they would agree that today's players are stronger, faster, bigger, deadlier.
All I've heard comment on it agree.
Not saying the players aren't physically more impressive. I'm saying he could still be a 40 year old 3rd string qb in this era coming off the bench leading comebacks
Brunnell, Moon, Testeverde, Flutie, Deberg ...all played in to their 40s in this era, none of them died.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Not saying the players aren't physically more impressive. I'm saying he could still be a 40 year old 3rd string qb in this era coming off the bench leading comebacks
Brunnell, Moon, Testeverde, Flutie, Deberg ...all played in to their 40s in this era, none of them died.
Zombo
Flutie was the amazing one to me out of that bunch small but a smart gamer. And if you keep yourself in decent shape now and are versatile enough you can always find a job as a backup QB with the rate QBs are going down now even with all the protect the QB rules now.
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I think you are right....YOUR memory IS playing tricks on you. As I said....the size of nearly everyone back then is no smaller now than they are today except for OL....and actually just DTs/NTs.
DEs are about the same: Deacon Jones was 6'5" 275. Myles Garrett is 6'5" 271
Yes, DT Joe Greene was 275. DTs today do top 300. On defense ONLY DTs are bigger now than they were in the 60/70s.
As I said, most of the weight gain are with DTs and OL.
So, the answer is: bullshit....Blanda et al were NOT being hit by smaller guys. Except on rare occasions.
I was replying to the Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen comment, they were the biggest guys on their teams and smaller than most NCAA and PRO players today. The 250, 260 guys would get crushed by the 300 and 310 today.
I was replying to the Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen comment, they were the biggest guys on their teams and smaller than most NCAA and PRO players today. The 250, 260 guys would get crushed by the 300 and 310 today.
You are trying to do a dance. That is not what your original post implied. You asserted it for basically every position.
Besides....what would you rather have....a 270 lb. Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen...or some of the 300 pound blobs that play these days.
I would put my money on the old guys to handle things. And, as I said....if those guys had needed to put on and extra 25 pounds to play today, they easily could have done so.
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Zombo said:
The lineman are bigger on both sides of the ball. Particularly on offense. Which would presume a qb like Blanda would actually be better protected today, not "killed" because the guys are bigger.
Z
But getting hit by today's bigger defensive players would have ended his career earlier.....hypothetically of course because 2000 guys can't play 1960 and 1970 guys. I'll bet anything if you ask them now they would agree that today's players are stronger, faster, bigger, deadlier.
All I've heard comment on it agree.
But getting hit by today's bigger defensive players would have ended his career earlier.....hypothetically of course because 2000 guys can't play 1960 and 1970 guys. I'll bet anything if you ask them now they would agree that today's players are stronger, faster, bigger, deadlier.
All I've heard comment on it agree.
Again....maybe 2 defensive players of today are bigger than they were in those days. The DTs. I have demonstrated the fact that the DEs, LBs, DBs are NOT any bigger today than they were then. And I don't agree that today's players are stronger, faster, or deadlier...only a couple of them are bigger (OL and DTs...and that is it).
Do you really think that the likes of Ryan Shazier and Christian Kirksey are deadlier than Dick Butkus and Ray Nitschke were? And you forgot one critical term: tougher.
They have different training techniques now perhaps....that is all.
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In the NFL, quarterbacks are bigger than ever. How big? At 6-foot-5 and 250 pounds, Cam Newton is bigger than most offensive linemen in the 1960s.
Of course, nowadays, offensive linemen are much bigger than that. The average guard, tackle, or center in the NFL in 2015 is 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.
Of the 159 players who have started at least four games as an offensive lineman since the start of the 2014 season, only 23 weigh less than 300 pounds and 39 weigh at least 320 pounds.
To put the sizes in perspective, let's compare the average size for an offensive lineman through the years to an active player.
In the 1940s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's tall running backs, 6-foot-1, 221 pounds.
In the 1950s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as a quarterback today, 6-foot-2, 234 pounds.
In the 1960s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's linebackers, 6-foot-3, 251 pounds.
In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's outside linebackers, 6-foot-3, 255 pounds.
In the 1980s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 272 pounds.
In the 1990s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's bigger defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 300 pounds.
In the 2000s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's centers, 6-foot-4, 313 pounds.
In 2015, the Bryan Bulaga is the average offensive lineman at 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.
In the NFL, quarterbacks are bigger than ever. How big? At 6-foot-5 and 250 pounds, Cam Newton is bigger than most offensive linemen in the 1960s.
Of course, nowadays, offensive linemen are much bigger than that. The average guard, tackle, or center in the NFL in 2015 is 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.
Of the 159 players who have started at least four games as an offensive lineman since the start of the 2014 season, only 23 weigh less than 300 pounds and 39 weigh at least 320 pounds.
To put the sizes in perspective, let's compare the average size for an offensive lineman through the years to an active player.
In the 1940s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's tall running backs, 6-foot-1, 221 pounds.
In the 1950s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as a quarterback today, 6-foot-2, 234 pounds.
In the 1960s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's linebackers, 6-foot-3, 251 pounds.
In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's outside linebackers, 6-foot-3, 255 pounds.
In the 1980s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 272 pounds.
In the 1990s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's bigger defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 300 pounds.
In the 2000s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's centers, 6-foot-4, 313 pounds.
In 2015, the Bryan Bulaga is the average offensive lineman at 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.
Again.....the point that offensive linemen are fatter now is not disputed. They are the only position besides DTs that have gotten bigger.
DEs are the same. DBs are the same. LBs are the same. RBs are the same. WRs may actually be overall smaller now.
QBs are slightly taller. (but we have 6-0 QBs today...as they had then....and we have 6-4 QBs now that they had then. Now we may just have a few more in the taller range.
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But getting hit by today's bigger defensive players would have ended his career earlier.....hypothetically of course because 2000 guys can't play 1960 and 1970 guys. I'll bet anything if you ask them now they would agree that today's players are stronger, faster, bigger, deadlier.
All I've heard comment on it agree.
Not saying the players aren't physically more impressive. I'm saying he could still be a 40 year old 3rd string qb in this era coming off the bench leading comebacks
Brunnell, Moon, Testeverde, Flutie, Deberg ...all played in to their 40s in this era, none of them died.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Not saying the players aren't physically more impressive. I'm saying he could still be a 40 year old 3rd string qb in this era coming off the bench leading comebacks
Brunnell, Moon, Testeverde, Flutie, Deberg ...all played in to their 40s in this era, none of them died.
Zombo
And Blanda was 6'2 220.
10 starting QBs in the league last year were 6'2 or under. (including Griffin)
This year, if DeShaun Watson and Cody Kessler start that would be 2 others that I can think of off the top of my head that are 6'2.
(and Kessler is only 215 lbs.).
So....if whomever claims that a QB that size can't play the game now.....10-11-12 teams need to start looking for new QBs.
And I guess that means they would advocate for Osweiler over Kessler.
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I think you are right....YOUR memory IS playing tricks on you. As I said....the size of nearly everyone back then is no smaller now than they are today except for OL....and actually just DTs/NTs.
DEs are about the same: Deacon Jones was 6'5" 275. Myles Garrett is 6'5" 271
Yes, DT Joe Greene was 275. DTs today do top 300. On defense ONLY DTs are bigger now than they were in the 60/70s.
As I said, most of the weight gain are with DTs and OL.
So, the answer is: bullshit....Blanda et al were NOT being hit by smaller guys. Except on rare occasions.
Point of parlimentary procedure, today's players have greater muscle mass and speed. The impact today is far harder than in Blanda's day. Hence the much shorter NFL career expectancy today.
Players today don't use steroids any longer. Steroids which the liver converted to testosterone in the liver were the first technology to make more muscular, leaner players. Deacon Jones never had the muscle mass and speed that Garrett has, Today, all players take testosterone to get super lean and put on more muscle mass.
They are different Gipper, absolutely. In his day, at 6' 2" and 230 - 235 Jim Brown was a big back. Today, he would be average size. It isn't that today's players are bigger weight wise, as much as they have more muscle mass. If you look at individual size, your argument holds some water, but if you take the entire fraternity of football players? Today's guys would crush the 1964 Browns.Monte Clark at 6' 6" 265 was indeed big, but he was not built like today's guys.
Bigger? I think they are, and for sure collectively as the league. Those old guys were smooth skinned. These kids today are monsters.
Point of parlimentary procedure, today's players have greater muscle mass and speed. The impact today is far harder than in Blanda's day. Hence the much shorter NFL career expectancy today.
Players today don't use steroids any longer. Steroids which the liver converted to testosterone in the liver were the first technology to make more muscular, leaner players. Deacon Jones never had the muscle mass and speed that Garrett has, Today, all players take testosterone to get super lean and put on more muscle mass.
They are different Gipper, absolutely. In his day, at 6' 2" and 230 - 235 Jim Brown was a big back. Today, he would be average size. It isn't that today's players are bigger weight wise, as much as they have more muscle mass. If you look at individual size, your argument holds some water, but if you take the entire fraternity of football players? Today's guys would crush the 1964 Browns.Monte Clark at 6' 6" 265 was indeed big, but he was not built like today's guys.
Bigger? I think they are, and for sure collectively as the league. Those old guys were smooth skinned. These kids today are monsters.
I was just looking at their height and weight.......and I conceded that today's players have different nutritional advantages....(performance enhancement drug advantages?) and do more weight training. But mjp implied that SIMPLY due to their height/weight that those players would be killed. And of course, that is absurd..because overall except for OL and DTs they are the same height/weight. Given the same weight training/conditioning/nutrition...and drugs? those players would have been able to perform just fine in today's game.
Besides....it seems like there was a suggestion that players in the 60s and 70s didn't know what a fucking bar bell was. They sure as fuck did. For the most part they were lifting dead weights....and didn't have the machines players use today. They knew how to lift and curl a 100 pound dumbell.
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In the NFL, quarterbacks are bigger than ever. How big? At 6-foot-5 and 250 pounds, Cam Newton is bigger than most offensive linemen in the 1960s.
Of course, nowadays, offensive linemen are much bigger than that. The average guard, tackle, or center in the NFL in 2015 is 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.
Of the 159 players who have started at least four games as an offensive lineman since the start of the 2014 season, only 23 weigh less than 300 pounds and 39 weigh at least 320 pounds.
To put the sizes in perspective, let's compare the average size for an offensive lineman through the years to an active player.
In the 1940s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's tall running backs, 6-foot-1, 221 pounds.
In the 1950s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as a quarterback today, 6-foot-2, 234 pounds.
In the 1960s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's linebackers, 6-foot-3, 251 pounds.
In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's outside linebackers, 6-foot-3, 255 pounds.
In the 1980s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 272 pounds.
In the 1990s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's bigger defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 300 pounds.
In the 2000s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's centers, 6-foot-4, 313 pounds.
In 2015, the Bryan Bulaga is the average offensive lineman at 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.
Again.....the point that offensive linemen are fatter now is not disputed. They are the only position besides DTs that have gotten bigger.
DEs are the same. DBs are the same. LBs are the same. RBs are the same. WRs may actually be overall smaller now.
QBs are slightly taller. (but we have 6-0 QBs today...as they had then....and we have 6-4 QBs now that they had then. Now we may just have a few more in the taller range.
Again.....the point that offensive linemen are fatter now is not disputed. They are the only position besides DTs that have gotten bigger.
DEs are the same. DBs are the same. LBs are the same. RBs are the same. WRs may actually be overall smaller now.
QBs are slightly taller. (but we have 6-0 QBs today...as they had then....and we have 6-4 QBs now that they had then. Now we may just have a few more in the taller range.
RBs are not the same. Greg Pruitt was 190 lbs and Walter Payton didn't weigh that much more. Dorsett wasn't much different. Now days, if they're only 205 lbs - the concern is they aren't big enough for a full workload. Most of your RBs now range between 215 and 225 lbs and higher. Way different than the 70s and 80s aside from a few exceptions to the rules and/or Pittsburgh Steeroids.
WRs seem bigger overall to me today here's some examples and I'm leaving a bunch of guys out:
Kenny Britt is 6'3"
Julio Jones is 6'3"
Dez Bryant is 6'2"
Kelvin Benjamin is 6'5"
Mike Evans is 6'5"
Cameron Meredith is 6'3"
Brandon Marshall is 6'4"
Larry Fitzgerald is 6'3"
AJ Green is 6'4"
Terrelle Pryor is 6'4"
Martavis Bryant is 6'4"
Damryius Thomas is 6'3"
Allen Robinson is 6'4"
LaQuan Treadwell is 6'2"
Marvin Jones Jr is 6'2"
Jordan Matthews is 6'3"
Cooper Kupp is 6'2"
Josh Reynolds is 6'3"
Adam Thielen is 6'2"
Jordy Nelson is 6'3"
Noah Brown is 6'2"
Bandon Coleman is 6'6"
Michael Thomas is 6'3"
Rueben Randle is 6'2"
Corey Davis is 6'3"
Tajae Sharpe is 6'2"
Eric Decker is 6'3"
Quincy Enunwa is 6'2"
Josh Hunter is 6'4"
Darrius Heward-Bey is 6'2"
Tyler Boyd is 6'2"
DeVante Parker is 6'3"
Calvin Johnson is 6'5" (retired a couple years ago-but considered this era)
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I don't think RBs are any bigger today. Pruitt was a scatback...and Payton, as tough as he was, was not a big back either. Lots and lots of RBs today are no bigger.
But there were many others: Like I said, JB at 6'2 232 is bigger than most backs today.
Jim Taylor 6'0 215 fits in today.
OJ 6'1 215
Franco Harris 6'2 230
Cookie Gilchrist was 6'3 250
John Henry Johson was 6'2 215
Larry Csonka 6'3 238
his sidekick Jim Kiick was 6'1 215
Mike Pruitt was 6'0 225
So, just like today, you had smaller backs and bigger backs.
And while you mentioned the height of tall receivers today....we had the tall ones back then:
Gary Collins was 6'5
Boyd Dowler 6'5
Max McGee 6'3
Harold Carmichael 6'8
Raymond Berry 6'2
I don't recall a lot of really short receivers back in the 60s/70s. Only Walter, the flea Roberts comes to mind at 5'9..and he really was a kick returner who saw just a bit of time at WR.
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I was replying to the Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen comment, they were the biggest guys on their teams and smaller than most NCAA and PRO players today. The 250, 260 guys would get crushed by the 300 and 310 today.
You are trying to do a dance. That is not what your original post implied. You asserted it for basically every position.
Besides....what would you rather have....a 270 lb. Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen...or some of the 300 pound blobs that play these days.
I would put my money on the old guys to handle things. And, as I said....if those guys had needed to put on and extra 25 pounds to play today, they easily could have done so.
You are trying to do a dance. That is not what your original post implied. You asserted it for basically every position.
Besides....what would you rather have....a 270 lb. Joe Greene and Merlin Olsen...or some of the 300 pound blobs that play these days.
I would put my money on the old guys to handle things. And, as I said....if those guys had needed to put on and extra 25 pounds to play today, they easily could have done so.
Exactly Gip, those OL blobs put on mass intentionally. Shades of Ghoolie's sumo wrestlers. I've met Doug Dieken a bunch of times @ Browns Backers banquets, and when he stopped playing all that mass went bye bye.
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I don't think RBs are any bigger today. Pruitt was a scatback...and Payton, as tough as he was, was not a big back either. Lots and lots of RBs today are no bigger.
But there were many others: Like I said, JB at 6'2 232 is bigger than most backs today.
Jim Taylor 6'0 215 fits in today.
OJ 6'1 215
Franco Harris 6'2 230
Cookie Gilchrist was 6'3 250
John Henry Johson was 6'2 215
Larry Csonka 6'3 238
his sidekick Jim Kiick was 6'1 215
Mike Pruitt was 6'0 225
So, just like today, you had smaller backs and bigger backs.
And while you mentioned the height of tall receivers today....we had the tall ones back then:
Gary Collins was 6'5
Boyd Dowler 6'5
Max McGee 6'3
Harold Carmichael 6'8
Raymond Berry 6'2
I don't recall a lot of really short receivers back in the 60s/70s. Only Walter, the flea Roberts comes to mind at 5'9..and he really was a kick returner who saw just a bit of time at WR.
I don't think RBs are any bigger today. Pruitt was a scatback...and Payton, as tough as he was, was not a big back either. Lots and lots of RBs today are no bigger.
But there were many others: Like I said, JB at 6'2 232 is bigger than most backs today.
Jim Taylor 6'0 215 fits in today.
OJ 6'1 215
Franco Harris 6'2 230
Cookie Gilchrist was 6'3 250
John Henry Johson was 6'2 215
Larry Csonka 6'3 238
his sidekick Jim Kiick was 6'1 215
Mike Pruitt was 6'0 225
So, just like today, you had smaller backs and bigger backs.
And while you mentioned the height of tall receivers today....we had the tall ones back then:
Gary Collins was 6'5
Boyd Dowler 6'5
Max McGee 6'3
Harold Carmichael 6'8
Raymond Berry 6'2
I don't recall a lot of really short receivers back in the 60s/70s. Only Walter, the flea Roberts comes to mind at 5'9..and he really was a kick returner who saw just a bit of time at WR.
Okay, you grabbed a few exceptions to the rule at WR. I'm talking about a larger population of guys than your exceptions to the rule though Gipper. Therefore, I easily listed 33 names probably could have listed about 20 more.
Larry Csonka, Jim Taylor, John Henry Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist were all Fullbacks so you're inflating your RB weights heavily with those guys. I think you'll also find that Mike Pruitt was a fullback at Purdue before Mike Alstott became one there as well. And Franco Harris used to be the blocking back for Lydell Mitchell at Penn State before he was the bigger back than Rocky Blier in Pittsburgh.
Greg Pruitt wasn't just a scat back. He was one of the strongest guys in the NFL pound for pound, which is why his deceptive power caused the league to stop using tear away jerseys. He held the record for the overhead press in the Superstars Competition that didn't get broken until a 250 lb Mark Gastineau was finally able to break it.
There were a lot of lighter RBs back then ranging from 180-195 lbs
Clarence Davis
Mercury Morris
Joe Washington
Terry Metcalf
James Brooks
Walter Payton
Tony Dorsett
Chuck Foreman
Wilbert Montgomery
Otis Armstrong
Preston Pearson
Lydell Mitchell
Mike Thomas
Delvin Williams
etc
Today, most of the starting RBs with a big work load range between 215 and 225 lbs. There's a lot of different NFL Preview Magazines out there that list heights and weights of RBs & WRs heading into the 2017 season.
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I don't think RBs are any bigger today. Pruitt was a scatback...and Payton, as tough as he was, was not a big back either. Lots and lots of RBs today are no bigger.
But there were many others: Like I said, JB at 6'2 232 is bigger than most backs today.
Jim Taylor 6'0 215 fits in today.
OJ 6'1 215
Franco Harris 6'2 230
Cookie Gilchrist was 6'3 250
John Henry Johson was 6'2 215
Larry Csonka 6'3 238
his sidekick Jim Kiick was 6'1 215
Mike Pruitt was 6'0 225
So, just like today, you had smaller backs and bigger backs.
And while you mentioned the height of tall receivers today....we had the tall ones back then:
Gary Collins was 6'5
Boyd Dowler 6'5
Max McGee 6'3
Harold Carmichael 6'8
Raymond Berry 6'2
I don't recall a lot of really short receivers back in the 60s/70s. Only Walter, the flea Roberts comes to mind at 5'9..and he really was a kick returner who saw just a bit of time at WR.
Okay, you grabbed a few exceptions to the rule at WR. I'm talking about a larger population of guys than your exceptions to the rule though Gipper. Therefore, I easily listed 33 names probably could have listed about 20 more.
Larry Csonka, Jim Taylor, John Henry Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist were all Fullbacks so you're inflating your RB weights heavily with those guys. I think you'll also find that Mike Pruitt was a fullback at Purdue before Mike Alstott became one there as well. And Franco Harris used to be the blocking back for Lydell Mitchell at Penn State before he was the bigger back than Rocky Blier in Pittsburgh.
Greg Pruitt wasn't just a scat back. He was one of the strongest guys in the NFL pound for pound, which is why his deceptive power caused the league to stop using tear away jerseys. He held the record for the overhead press in the Superstars Competition that didn't get broken until a 250 lb Mark Gastineau was finally able to break it.
There were a lot of lighter RBs back then ranging from 180-195 lbs
Clarence Davis
Mercury Morris
Joe Washington
Terry Metcalf
James Brooks
Walter Payton
Tony Dorsett
Chuck Foreman
Wilbert Montgomery
Otis Armstrong
Preston Pearson
Lydell Mitchell
Mike Thomas
Delvin Williams
etc
Today, most of the starting RBs with a big work load range between 215 and 225 lbs. There's a lot of different NFL Preview Magazines out there that list heights and weights of RBs & WRs heading into the 2017 season.
Okay, you grabbed a few exceptions to the rule at WR. I'm talking about a larger population of guys than your exceptions to the rule though Gipper. Therefore, I easily listed 33 names probably could have listed about 20 more.
And I am sure if I had wanted to I could have given dozens more. The fact is....there are a lot more smaller receivers today than there were then. Bump and run rules in place dictated against the small guys that we have now playing because they could not hold up under the bumping and pushing. The Packers had all big guys...Carrol Dale, McGee, etc.
Like I said...you rarely if ever found the likes of an Andrew Hawkins or Travis Benjamin. Short, smaller guys would get slobberknockered.
Larry Csonka, Jim Taylor, John Henry Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist were all Fullbacks so you're inflating your RB weights heavily with those guys. I think you'll also find that Mike Pruitt was a fullback at Purdue before Mike Alstott became one there as well. And Franco Harris used to be the blocking back for Lydell Mitchell at Penn State before he was the bigger back than Rocky Blier in Pittsburgh.
These guys were fullbacks in name only. They were their teams Running Back. Today they would just be called the Running Back. The guy that runs the ball. Jim Brown was listed as a Fullback. Do you think Jim Brown/TAylor, Csonka/Gilchrist etc. would have been relegated to the role that Dan Vitale plays today? Hardly. If they played in the same parlance, The Crow would be called a fullback..with Duke called the Halfback. Adrian Peterson would have been called a fullback. It was all a matter of nomenclature, not reality in how they were used.
Greg Pruitt wasn't just a scat back. He was one of the strongest guys in the NFL pound for pound, which is why his deceptive power caused the league to stop using tear away jerseys. He held the record for the overhead press in the Superstars Competition that didn't get broken until a 250 lb Mark Gastineau was finally able to break it.
There were a lot of lighter RBs back then ranging from 180-195 lbs
Clarence Davis
Mercury Morris
Joe Washington
Terry Metcalf
James Brooks
Walter Payton
Tony Dorsett
Chuck Foreman
Wilbert Montgomery
Otis Armstrong
Preston Pearson
Lydell Mitchell
Mike Thomas
Delvin Williams
etc
And if these guys were playing today, with the weight training and conditioning and nutrition in vogue today, they would be weighing the 10-12-15 extra pounds that you think they should weigh today.
Today, most of the starting RBs with a big work load range between 215 and 225 lbs. There's a lot of different NFL Preview Magazines out there that list heights and weights of RBs & WRs heading into the 2017 season.
Yes, perhaps....but, again, they are bulked up with weight training and nutrition. All the guy you mention likely...if playing today, would also be in that weight range. Except for 2-3 none of them were really "small RBs". I mean, a lot of those guys were in the 6'2 range. Duke Johnson is ony 5'9.
Our "big Back" The Crow, is 5'11 225. Leroy Kelly was 6'0 202. Today, with his frame, Kelly likely too would be in the 225 range.
Chuck Foreman was 6'2.
Brooks, Morris and Metcalf would have roles the same basically as Duke Johnson...and would have carried the same weight.
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Okay, you grabbed a few exceptions to the rule at WR. I'm talking about a larger population of guys than your exceptions to the rule though Gipper. Therefore, I easily listed 33 names probably could have listed about 20 more.
And I am sure if I had wanted to I could have given dozens more. The fact is....there are a lot more smaller receivers today than there were then. Bump and run rules in place dictated against the small guys that we have now playing because they could not hold up under the bumping and pushing. The Packers had all big guys...Carrol Dale, McGee, etc.
Like I said...you rarely if ever found the likes of an Andrew Hawkins or Travis Benjamin. Short, smaller guys would get slobberknockered.
Larry Csonka, Jim Taylor, John Henry Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist were all Fullbacks so you're inflating your RB weights heavily with those guys. I think you'll also find that Mike Pruitt was a fullback at Purdue before Mike Alstott became one there as well. And Franco Harris used to be the blocking back for Lydell Mitchell at Penn State before he was the bigger back than Rocky Blier in Pittsburgh.
These guys were fullbacks in name only. They were their teams Running Back. Today they would just be called the Running Back. The guy that runs the ball. Jim Brown was listed as a Fullback. Do you think Jim Brown/TAylor, Csonka/Gilchrist etc. would have been relegated to the role that Dan Vitale plays today? Hardly. If they played in the same parlance, The Crow would be called a fullback..with Duke called the Halfback. Adrian Peterson would have been called a fullback. It was all a matter of nomenclature, not reality in how they were used.
Greg Pruitt wasn't just a scat back. He was one of the strongest guys in the NFL pound for pound, which is why his deceptive power caused the league to stop using tear away jerseys. He held the record for the overhead press in the Superstars Competition that didn't get broken until a 250 lb Mark Gastineau was finally able to break it.
There were a lot of lighter RBs back then ranging from 180-195 lbs
Clarence Davis
Mercury Morris
Joe Washington
Terry Metcalf
James Brooks
Walter Payton
Tony Dorsett
Chuck Foreman
Wilbert Montgomery
Otis Armstrong
Preston Pearson
Lydell Mitchell
Mike Thomas
Delvin Williams
etc
And if these guys were playing today, with the weight training and conditioning and nutrition in vogue today, they would be weighing the 10-12-15 extra pounds that you think they should weigh today.
Today, most of the starting RBs with a big work load range between 215 and 225 lbs. There's a lot of different NFL Preview Magazines out there that list heights and weights of RBs & WRs heading into the 2017 season.
Yes, perhaps....but, again, they are bulked up with weight training and nutrition. All the guy you mention likely...if playing today, would also be in that weight range. Except for 2-3 none of them were really "small RBs". I mean, a lot of those guys were in the 6'2 range. Duke Johnson is ony 5'9.
Our "big Back" The Crow, is 5'11 225. Leroy Kelly was 6'0 202. Today, with his frame, Kelly likely too would be in the 225 range.
Chuck Foreman was 6'2.
Brooks, Morris and Metcalf would have roles the same basically as Duke Johnson...and would have carried the same weight.
Okay, you grabbed a few exceptions to the rule at WR. I'm talking about a larger population of guys than your exceptions to the rule though Gipper. Therefore, I easily listed 33 names probably could have listed about 20 more.
And I am sure if I had wanted to I could have given dozens more. The fact is....there are a lot more smaller receivers today than there were then. Bump and run rules in place dictated against the small guys that we have now playing because they could not hold up under the bumping and pushing. The Packers had all big guys...Carrol Dale, McGee, etc.
Like I said...you rarely if ever found the likes of an Andrew Hawkins or Travis Benjamin. Short, smaller guys would get slobberknockered.
Larry Csonka, Jim Taylor, John Henry Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist were all Fullbacks so you're inflating your RB weights heavily with those guys. I think you'll also find that Mike Pruitt was a fullback at Purdue before Mike Alstott became one there as well. And Franco Harris used to be the blocking back for Lydell Mitchell at Penn State before he was the bigger back than Rocky Blier in Pittsburgh.
These guys were fullbacks in name only. They were their teams Running Back. Today they would just be called the Running Back. The guy that runs the ball. Jim Brown was listed as a Fullback. Do you think Jim Brown/TAylor, Csonka/Gilchrist etc. would have been relegated to the role that Dan Vitale plays today? Hardly. If they played in the same parlance, The Crow would be called a fullback..with Duke called the Halfback. Adrian Peterson would have been called a fullback. It was all a matter of nomenclature, not reality in how they were used.
Greg Pruitt wasn't just a scat back. He was one of the strongest guys in the NFL pound for pound, which is why his deceptive power caused the league to stop using tear away jerseys. He held the record for the overhead press in the Superstars Competition that didn't get broken until a 250 lb Mark Gastineau was finally able to break it.
There were a lot of lighter RBs back then ranging from 180-195 lbs
Clarence Davis
Mercury Morris
Joe Washington
Terry Metcalf
James Brooks
Walter Payton
Tony Dorsett
Chuck Foreman
Wilbert Montgomery
Otis Armstrong
Preston Pearson
Lydell Mitchell
Mike Thomas
Delvin Williams
etc
Larry Csonka was a fullback while Mercury Morris was the Halfback/RB. They both gained over 1000 yards in the same season while Jim Kiick rotated in with Morris to add about another 600 yards on the ground. Just like Mack gained over 1000 yards as the FB while Byner went over 1000 yards as the RB in 1985.
You make a good point about all the little slot guys in the last 16 years buffering the size back down from all those taller WR names I mentioned.
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Okay, you grabbed a few exceptions to the rule at WR. I'm talking about a larger population of guys than your exceptions to the rule though Gipper. Therefore, I easily listed 33 names probably could have listed about 20 more.
And I am sure if I had wanted to I could have given dozens more. The fact is....there are a lot more smaller receivers today than there were then. Bump and run rules in place dictated against the small guys that we have now playing because they could not hold up under the bumping and pushing. The Packers had all big guys...Carrol Dale, McGee, etc.
Like I said...you rarely if ever found the likes of an Andrew Hawkins or Travis Benjamin. Short, smaller guys would get slobberknockered.
Larry Csonka, Jim Taylor, John Henry Johnson and Cookie Gilchrist were all Fullbacks so you're inflating your RB weights heavily with those guys. I think you'll also find that Mike Pruitt was a fullback at Purdue before Mike Alstott became one there as well. And Franco Harris used to be the blocking back for Lydell Mitchell at Penn State before he was the bigger back than Rocky Blier in Pittsburgh.
These guys were fullbacks in name only. They were their teams Running Back. Today they would just be called the Running Back. The guy that runs the ball. Jim Brown was listed as a Fullback. Do you think Jim Brown/TAylor, Csonka/Gilchrist etc. would have been relegated to the role that Dan Vitale plays today? Hardly. If they played in the same parlance, The Crow would be called a fullback..with Duke called the Halfback. Adrian Peterson would have been called a fullback. It was all a matter of nomenclature, not reality in how they were used.
Greg Pruitt wasn't just a scat back. He was one of the strongest guys in the NFL pound for pound, which is why his deceptive power caused the league to stop using tear away jerseys. He held the record for the overhead press in the Superstars Competition that didn't get broken until a 250 lb Mark Gastineau was finally able to break it.
There were a lot of lighter RBs back then ranging from 180-195 lbs
Clarence Davis
Mercury Morris
Joe Washington
Terry Metcalf
James Brooks
Walter Payton
Tony Dorsett
Chuck Foreman
Wilbert Montgomery
Otis Armstrong
Preston Pearson
Lydell Mitchell
Mike Thomas
Delvin Williams
etc
Larry Csonka was a fullback while Mercury Morris was the Halfback/RB. They both gained over 1000 yards in the same season while Jim Kiick rotated in with Morris to add about another 600 yards on the ground. Just like Mack gained over 1000 yards as the FB while Byner went over 1000 yards as the RB in 1985.
You make a good point about all the little slot guys in the last 16 years buffering the size back down from all those taller WR names I mentioned.
Larry Csonka was a fullback while Mercury Morris was the Halfback/RB. They both gained over 1000 yards in the same season while Jim Kiick rotated in with Morris to add about another 600 yards on the ground. Just like Mack gained over 1000 yards as the FB while Byner went over 1000 yards as the RB in 1985.
You make a good point about all the little slot guys in the last 16 years buffering the size back down from all those taller WR names I mentioned.
But my point is simple. A "fullback" then is a quite different animal from a fullback now.
Then....the primary RB of a team was the "fullback". Today they would just be listed as a Running Back.
Today, the fullback is just a blocking guard that lines up behind the line of scrimmage.
Then...often the halfback was the blocking back. (Can you say Ernie Green)
Today, both Mack and Byner would be listed as Running Backs.
Look at what's his name...The Bus (senior moment...I can't remember his name. Jerome something...Bettis, that's it). He certainly is built like a fullback....and he may have technically been that. But he was the Rams/Steelers primary running back.
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