Ship Osweiler?
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Oz is the $16 million odd man out. If we can ship him for anything and unload his contract, I think our FO does it.
Agreed.......I dont think people realize we got PAID to take Asspiler......(and his ridiculously huge contract)....
Anyone who thinks we are getting a high pick(1st-2nd-3rd) is karaaaazy.......No one is paying that high for a a very questionable player with a silly 16m contract......we'll be lucky to get a 4th or 5th and I think they'd take ANYTHING.....even a conditional 2022 7th rounder....
Look....if we GAVE him away.....we'd still have a 2nd rounder for free......if we took a 7th, then it's 2 picks for free....
Lets not get greedy.....
I will say that Asspiler looks better than the others.....in both of the practices Ive attended, as well as tonights scrimmage....
Lack of work with the 1's was the least of Kess' and Hogan's problems last season...
At the risk of coming perilously close to agreeing with Ghoolie... there is a showcasing aspect for Osweiler in play. He works with backups so he can play against backups in preseason. He plays against backups so he looks as good as he possibly can to enhance his trade value. The hope is to snare a couple teams' interest... but fans will get tangled in that trap... happens every season... this one will be no different.
Look....if we GAVE him away.....we'd still have a 2nd rounder for free......if we took a 7th, then it's 2 picks for free....
We did send a 2017 4th to HOU... so not exactly "free"... but we did also get a 2017 6th which was folded into the draft day trade with the Jets that ultimately landed us Rod Johnson.
Cleveland also will receive the Texans' 2018 second-round pick and a 2017 sixth-round pick (No. 188 overall). Houston will get a 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 142), and save $10 million in salary-cap space and $16 million in cash this season.
@boo-fagley said:
Camp just started and you do not know who else goes down. Tanny wont be on the roster this season so no salary.
Who cares that he is signed till 2021 - NFL contracts are not fully guaranteed.
Ummmm... no... Players hurt in football related activities, e.g., workouts, practices and games, are paid their full weekly salary plus any scheduled bonuses. And the player cannot be cut until he is cleared to play, so the contract remains in force and each year there is a drop-dead date of June 1st at which time the upcoming year's guarantees kick in.
The only way the above is not applicable is if an "injury settlement" is negotiated soon after the IR designation is made. In this case the contract is voided and the player becomes an UFA for all but the team he was with. There's an extra delay (I think it's 6 weeks) until his original team can sign him. This is not a route the Fins are likely to take.
It's the difference between being fully guaranteed and not... (FIFY you above).
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Lack of work with the 1's was the least of Kess' and Hogan's problems last season...
At the risk of coming perilously close to agreeing with Ghoolie... there is a showcasing aspect for Osweiler in play. He works with backups so he can play against backups in preseason. He plays against backups so he looks as good as he possibly can to enhance his trade value. The hope is to snare a couple teams' interest... but fans will get tangled in that trap... happens every season... this one will be no different.
Look....if we GAVE him away.....we'd still have a 2nd rounder for free......if we took a 7th, then it's 2 picks for free....
We did send a 2017 4th to HOU... so not exactly "free"... but we did also get a 2017 6th which was folded into the draft day trade with the Jets that ultimately landed us Rod Johnson.
Cleveland also will receive the Texans' 2018 second-round pick and a 2017 sixth-round pick (No. 188 overall). Houston will get a 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 142), and save $10 million in salary-cap space and $16 million in cash this season.
@boo-fagley said:
Camp just started and you do not know who else goes down. Tanny wont be on the roster this season so no salary.
Who cares that he is signed till 2021 - NFL contracts are not fully guaranteed.
Ummmm... no... Players hurt in football related activities, e.g., workouts, practices and games, are paid their full weekly salary plus any scheduled bonuses. And the player cannot be cut until he is cleared to play, so the contract remains in force and each year there is a drop-dead date of June 1st at which time the upcoming year's guarantees kick in.
The only way the above is not applicable is if an "injury settlement" is negotiated soon after the IR designation is made. In this case the contract is voided and the player becomes an UFA for all but the team he was with. There's an extra delay (I think it's 6 weeks) until his original team can sign him. This is not a route the Fins are likely to take.
It's the difference between being fully guaranteed and not... (FIFY you above).
BO went against the ones last night and did pretty well.Lack of work with the 1's was the least of Kess' and Hogan's problems last season...
At the risk of coming perilously close to agreeing with Ghoolie... there is a showcasing aspect for Osweiler in play. He works with backups so he can play against backups in preseason. He plays against backups so he looks as good as he possibly can to enhance his trade value. The hope is to snare a couple teams' interest... but fans will get tangled in that trap... happens every season... this one will be no different.
We did send a 2017 4th to HOU... so not exactly "free"... but we did also get a 2017 6th which was folded into the draft day trade with the Jets that ultimately landed us Rod Johnson.
Cleveland also will receive the Texans' 2018 second-round pick and a 2017 sixth-round pick (No. 188 overall). Houston will get a 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 142), and save $10 million in salary-cap space and $16 million in cash this season.
Ummmm... no... Players hurt in football related activities, e.g., workouts, practices and games, are paid their full salary. And the player cannot be cut until he is cleared to play, so the contract remains in force and each year there is a drop-dead date of June 1st at which time the upcoming year's guarantees kick in.
The only way the above is not applicable is if an "injury settlement" is negotiated soon after the IR designation is made. In this case the contract is voided and the player becomes an UFA... not a route the Fins are likely to take.
It's the difference between being fully guaranteed and not... (FIFY you above).
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I wouldnt be surprised.....which is kind of what Im saying......
My main thought is that Id prefer the guy who "looks the best" to play.....but thats just me.....if they want to burn another year on development over trying to win, then so be it.....I get that we aint going to the playoffs or anything.....just hate having a team that is not trying(their best) to win now......or starting players who haven't earned the position in camp
I take exception to this. IN all honesty starting Ass-oiler is a move antithetical to what the FO has been blabbering about, and that I have been ear fucked with on this board for the past two years.
Building for the future? Exactly what future is there with Ass-oiler? Why does it even matter if he is playing better than the other guys? Am I to believe that the mystical brass ring we are reaching for extends only to the height of "he looked better than the other guys in camp?" This stupidity, inconsistency and hypocrisy is a big part of why I have grown so bitter towards this team, and in a large part, its fans.
If I was in Hue Jackson's shoes, I would be asking myself, "what tools are at my disposal to elevate this team and take it to a higher place than it has ever been before?" Starting Ass-Oiler is his answer?
If I was in Hue Jackson's shoes I would not be building a team around the level Ass-Oiler is playing. I would ask myself, who on this team can mature and play way above the level BO can play? THAT is the guy who gets the start. Deshone Kizer is the only QB the Browns have with unknown upside. He has greater physical skills, and from what I see, the kind of ego, fire and chutzpah to change the dynamics of an entire football team.
You guys can fucking debate analytics, mechanics and all the other mindless mental masturbation that surrounds the Browns continued low achievement behavior, but win, lose or bust, Deshone Kizer is the only active QB lottery ticket the Browns have. You know it, I know it and the experts know it. The only one who doesn't seem to know it is this dumb cocksucker head coach. There is nothing exciting in the potential offered by these other jackoff QBs. There is no potential wow factor in anyone but Kizer.
So why engineer a fucking young team around a QB that everyone not in a coma realizes, has absolutely no possibility of being the teams leader a year from now? We have already seen this shitbag of Hogan, Kessler, Ass-Oiler and the pizza delivery guy.
For the love of Christ, if you spew that you are building for the future, play the only fucking guy you have who represents a possibility of being here in the future. Play Kizer. Start Kizer. Send a message that Kizer is the fucking leader and that EVERYONE needs to help this guy achieve success. Let the goddamned guy fuck up. Let him stink the plact to high heaven. Let him make big plays. Let him learn. See his shortcomings and work with him, develop him.
I can't even believe that after drafting the kid we are fucking around with a turd because what? We may win a few games more with him?
Fucking self-deprecating, self-limiting,stupid, idiotic. aim for 3 - 13 logic. Hue Jackson is an incompetent jackoff. What fucking tone is this guy setting?
I take exception to this. IN all honesty starting Ass-oiler is a move antithetical to what the FO has been blabbering about, and that I have been ear fucked with on this board for the past two years.
Building for the future? Exactly what future is there with Ass-oiler? Why does it even matter if he is playing better than the other guys? Am I to believe that the mystical brass ring we are reaching for extends only to the height of "he looked better than the other guys in camp?" This stupidity, inconsistency and hypocrisy is a big part of why I have grown so bitter towards this team, and in a large part, its fans.
If I was in Hue Jackson's shoes, I would be asking myself, "what tools are at my disposal to elevate this team and take it to a higher place than it has ever been before?" Starting Ass-Oiler is his answer?
If I was in Hue Jackson's shoes I would not be building a team around the level Ass-Oiler is playing. I would ask myself, who on this team can mature and play way above the level BO can play? THAT is the guy who gets the start. Deshone Kizer is the only QB the Browns have with unknown upside. He has greater physical skills, and from what I see, the kind of ego, fire and chutzpah to change the dynamics of an entire football team.
You guys can fucking debate analytics, mechanics and all the other mindless mental masturbation that surrounds the Browns continued low achievement behavior, but win, lose or bust, Deshone Kizer is the only active QB lottery ticket the Browns have. You know it, I know it and the experts know it. The only one who doesn't seem to know it is this dumb cocksucker head coach. There is nothing exciting in the potential offered by these other jackoff QBs. There is no potential wow factor in anyone but Kizer.
So why engineer a fucking young team around a QB that everyone not in a coma realizes, has absolutely no possibility of being the teams leader a year from now? We have already seen this shitbag of Hogan, Kessler, Ass-Oiler and the pizza delivery guy.
For the love of Christ, if you spew that you are building for the future, play the only fucking guy you have who represents a possibility of being here in the future. Play Kizer. Start Kizer. Send a message that Kizer is the fucking leader and that EVERYONE needs to help this guy achieve success. Let the goddamned guy fuck up. Let him stink the plact to high heaven. Let him make big plays. Let him learn. See his shortcomings and work with him, develop him.
I can't even believe that after drafting the kid we are fucking around with a turd because what? We may win a few games more with him?
Fucking self-deprecating, self-limiting,stupid, idiotic. aim for 3 - 13 logic. Hue Jackson is an incompetent jackoff. What fucking tone is this guy setting?
Kizer has no fire and chuzpah.. He has the personality of a dumb rock.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
How would you feel about Trading Brock for the Phins back up Moore? He would be a good enough proven back up with a pissed attitude after getting the shaft in Miami (That is if we do stick with Kessler ) I mean he was the 2nd string and when the starter got hurt they over looked him? He was 2-2 last year as a starter........Just an idea. What we say does not amount to shit, just throwing the idea out there. To be honest I never thought Brock was going to make the team when we got him in the trade to begin with. GO BROWNS
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How would you feel about Trading Brock for the Phins back up Moore? He would be a good enough proven back up with a pissed attitude after getting the shaft in Miami (That is if we do stick with Kessler ) I mean he was the 2nd string and when the starter got hurt they over looked him? He was 2-2 last year as a starter........Just an idea. What we say does not amount to shit, just throwing the idea out there. To be honest I never thought Brock was going to make the team when we got him in the trade to begin with. GO BROWNS
How would you feel about Trading Brock for the Phins back up Moore? He would be a good enough proven back up with a pissed attitude after getting the shaft in Miami (That is if we do stick with Kessler ) I mean he was the 2nd string and when the starter got hurt they over looked him? He was 2-2 last year as a starter........Just an idea. What we say does not amount to shit, just throwing the idea out there. To be honest I never thought Brock was going to make the team when we got him in the trade to begin with. GO BROWNS
This just reeks of the Delhomme debacle. No thanks.
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I take exception to this. IN all honesty starting Ass-oiler is a move antithetical to what the FO has been blabbering about, and that I have been ear fucked with on this board for the past two years.
Building for the future? Exactly what future is there with Ass-oiler? Why does it even matter if he is playing better than the other guys? Am I to believe that the mystical brass ring we are reaching for extends only to the height of "he looked better than the other guys in camp?" This stupidity, inconsistency and hypocrisy is a big part of why I have grown so bitter towards this team, and in a large part, its fans.
If I was in Hue Jackson's shoes, I would be asking myself, "what tools are at my disposal to elevate this team and take it to a higher place than it has ever been before?" Starting Ass-Oiler is his answer?
If I was in Hue Jackson's shoes I would not be building a team around the level Ass-Oiler is playing. I would ask myself, who on this team can mature and play way above the level BO can play? THAT is the guy who gets the start. Deshone Kizer is the only QB the Browns have with unknown upside. He has greater physical skills, and from what I see, the kind of ego, fire and chutzpah to change the dynamics of an entire football team.
You guys can fucking debate analytics, mechanics and all the other mindless mental masturbation that surrounds the Browns continued low achievement behavior, but win, lose or bust, Deshone Kizer is the only active QB lottery ticket the Browns have. You know it, I know it and the experts know it. The only one who doesn't seem to know it is this dumb cocksucker head coach. There is nothing exciting in the potential offered by these other jackoff QBs. There is no potential wow factor in anyone but Kizer.
So why engineer a fucking young team around a QB that everyone not in a coma realizes, has absolutely no possibility of being the teams leader a year from now? We have already seen this shitbag of Hogan, Kessler, Ass-Oiler and the pizza delivery guy.
For the love of Christ, if you spew that you are building for the future, play the only fucking guy you have who represents a possibility of being here in the future. Play Kizer. Start Kizer. Send a message that Kizer is the fucking leader and that EVERYONE needs to help this guy achieve success. Let the goddamned guy fuck up. Let him stink the plact to high heaven. Let him make big plays. Let him learn. See his shortcomings and work with him, develop him.
I can't even believe that after drafting the kid we are fucking around with a turd because what? We may win a few games more with him?
Fucking self-deprecating, self-limiting,stupid, idiotic. aim for 3 - 13 logic. Hue Jackson is an incompetent jackoff. What fucking tone is this guy setting?
Kizer has no fire and chuzpah.. He has the personality of a dumb rock.
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Kizer will start, Kessler will be backup, Osweiler is no doubt being shown off in hopes that we'll get a quasi-Bradford deal from a playoff team in need. If he's not shopped, he'll stay on through the season as insurance and shopped next season pre-draft.
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Ossie will be shopped and become someone's franchise QB. Browns fans will say WTF happened here?
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I'd be happy with a 4th
I'd be happy with whatever. Don't want Brock on this team at all.
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Who starts at QB to open the NFL season?
This is the NFL. It is the pinnacle of football in the US. It's not Tee-Ball where all the kiddies get to play.
You play the QB that gives you the BEST chance to win the game.
So, you go through camp and the preseason and if the Ostrich has outplayed the rest then HE starts. Period! That is what you owe to the team and it's what you should do at all positions.
Now...as we go through the season...if we see that the team is not winning games...and we're not going to be going to the playoffs...and the QB is not lighting it up...then, IMO, if Kizer seems ready enough to play tackle football then he should be put in to see what sort of future might be in store for him.
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Who starts at QB to open the NFL season?
This is the NFL. It is the pinnacle of football in the US. It's not Tee-Ball where all the kiddies get to play.
You play the QB that gives you the BEST chance to win the game.
So, you go through camp and the preseason and if the Ostrich has outplayed the rest then HE starts. Period! That is what you owe to the team and it's what you should do at all positions.
Now...as we go through the season...if we see that the team is not winning games...and we're not going to be going to the playoffs...and the QB is not lighting it up...then, IMO, if Kizer seems ready enough to play tackle football then he should be put in to see what sort of future might be in store for him.
Who starts at QB to open the NFL season?
This is the NFL. It is the pinnacle of football in the US. It's not Tee-Ball where all the kiddies get to play.
You play the QB that gives you the BEST chance to win the game.
So, you go through camp and the preseason and if the Ostrich has outplayed the rest then HE starts. Period! That is what you owe to the team and it's what you should do at all positions.
Now...as we go through the season...if we see that the team is not winning games...and we're not going to be going to the playoffs...and the QB is not lighting it up...then, IMO, if Kizer seems ready enough to play tackle football then he should be put in to see what sort of future might be in store for him.
Well then dump Osweiler and it's no longer an issue. Then it's whoever is left that gives you the best chance.
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Who starts at QB to open the NFL season?
This is the NFL. It is the pinnacle of football in the US. It's not Tee-Ball where all the kiddies get to play.
You play the QB that gives you the BEST chance to win the game.
So, you go through camp and the preseason and if the Ostrich has outplayed the rest then HE starts. Period! That is what you owe to the team and it's what you should do at all positions.
Now...as we go through the season...if we see that the team is not winning games...and we're not going to be going to the playoffs...and the QB is not lighting it up...then, IMO, if Kizer seems ready enough to play tackle football then he should be put in to see what sort of future might be in store for him.
Well then dump Osweiler and it's no longer an issue. Then it's whoever is left that gives you the best chance.
Well then dump Osweiler and it's no longer an issue. Then it's whoever is left that gives you the best chance.
That's ONE theory I guess....
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I doubt seriously the theory that we are trying to showcase Ossie so we can foist him on someone else. Our current meager choices at QB preclude that, especially if he proves out far better than expected and the best one on the team. If he beats the others out, then he's our QB and we eat the contract.
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http://espn.com/blog/cleveland//post/_/id/3609 Grossi reacts to hoolie's post(again)
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With his initials being B.O. I don't know why the Texans were so surprised when it turned out that he stinks...
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Here is part of the article that Gumby posted.....with some key comments highlighted....
The biggest tip-off of a switch to Osweiler – and not to rookie DeShone Kizer – was Jackson’s stated desire to win a game on Thursday to set a tone for the preseason. “I want to go through the weekend, go through last night and go through today and really sit down and make what I think is the best decision for our football team for Thursday night,” Jackson said. “That is what is important. I will keep stressing that Thursday night may be different than what the regular season may be. If it is, it is. If it isn’t, then it isn’t, too. My job is to make sure that I put the guy out there who gives us the best chance to score points and help this team win. That is what I’m going to do.” Jackson conceded that he has a different urgency about this preseason than last year, when the Browns went 0-4 in practice games and proceeded to lose 14 in a row in the real season en route to a 1-15 debacle. “I do not want to go 0-4 again,” Jackson said. “I don’t want to feel like that. I don’t think this team deserves that. We need to go out and play good in front of our fans and go win. I don’t care what we are playing. I just think that has got to be our mindset. I think the mindset is different than what it is. If we are going to play, we need to go win. Everybody … says that, but I mean it. We need to go win.”
So, when I read between the lines, here is what Im hearing Hue say.....
1) Whoever I start this Thursday is the guy I think gives us the best chance to score and win
2) But......It may only be one game that he starts....
3) We will try to win a preseason game, but once the real season starts, we might go with a QB who doesnt give us the best chance to win....
Sounds like Hue "wants" to start one guy, but isnt confident he will have that guy going forward.....just my take.....
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My hunches are:
Kessler's arm limits him, and puts pressure on him to be successful in what he does well, the shorter passing game.
Oswilder (lol) should work out with Bernie Kosar, and learn to use his brain more than his feet. Maybe that would work.
He holds onto the ball too long. Maybe he's just thinking at this point.
Hogan, in practice that we went to... gets rid of the ball quickly. He does a nice job.
Kizer - just won't be ready to start - too much to learn for anybody. Look at last year's top two qb's... they had their
struggles. But it seems he may have a better arm than Wentz. Kizer may just be a future star.
Advantage to start - Kessler, He knows the offense, bigtime. At this point, so does Hogan. Looks like Hogan
has developed a much quicker release - he looks good.
Very interesting.
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My hunches are:
Kessler's arm limits him, and puts pressure on him to be successful in what he does well, the shorter passing game.
Oswilder (lol) should work out with Bernie Kosar, and learn to use his brain more than his feet. Maybe that would work.
He holds onto the ball too long. Maybe he's just thinking at this point.
Hogan, in practice that we went to... gets rid of the ball quickly. He does a nice job.
Kizer - just won't be ready to start - too much to learn for anybody. Look at last year's top two qb's... they had their
struggles. But it seems he may have a better arm than Wentz. Kizer may just be a future star.
Advantage to start - Kessler, He knows the offense, bigtime. At this point, so does Hogan. Looks like Hogan
has developed a much quicker release - he looks good.
Very interesting.
My hunches are:
Kessler's arm limits him, and puts pressure on him to be successful in what he does well, the shorter passing game.
Oswilder (lol) should work out with Bernie Kosar, and learn to use his brain more than his feet. Maybe that would work.
He holds onto the ball too long. Maybe he's just thinking at this point.
Hogan, in practice that we went to... gets rid of the ball quickly. He does a nice job.
Kizer - just won't be ready to start - too much to learn for anybody. Look at last year's top two qb's... they had their
struggles. But it seems he may have a better arm than Wentz. Kizer may just be a future star.
Advantage to start - Kessler, He knows the offense, bigtime. At this point, so does Hogan. Looks like Hogan
has developed a much quicker release - he looks good.
Very interesting.
Cant totally agree.....I think a HUGE part of the reason ALL these guys hold the ball is because no one is ever open.....even Hue alluded to that this week.....and it aint because our DB's are great....it's because our WR's aren't....
Kizer might have a stronger arm.....but I wouldnt call it "better", as touch and accuracy are completely lacking.....we've had strong armed inaccurate touchless QB's before.....Derek Anderson and Brandom Weeden being the most recent....
Hogan doesnt really "look good".....not at all....kind of scary that he stands out against Kessler and Kizer tho.....
Kessler does a short passing game well?....it's all he does and he never gets a TD or even a first down.....wouldnt call that doing well, really
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Here is part of the article that Gumby posted.....with some key comments highlighted....
The biggest tip-off of a switch to Osweiler – and not to rookie DeShone Kizer – was Jackson’s stated desire to win a game on Thursday to set a tone for the preseason. “I want to go through the weekend, go through last night and go through today and really sit down and make what I think is the best decision for our football team for Thursday night,” Jackson said. “That is what is important. I will keep stressing that Thursday night may be different than what the regular season may be. If it is, it is. If it isn’t, then it isn’t, too. My job is to make sure that I put the guy out there who gives us the best chance to score points and help this team win. That is what I’m going to do.” Jackson conceded that he has a different urgency about this preseason than last year, when the Browns went 0-4 in practice games and proceeded to lose 14 in a row in the real season en route to a 1-15 debacle. “I do not want to go 0-4 again,” Jackson said. “I don’t want to feel like that. I don’t think this team deserves that. We need to go out and play good in front of our fans and go win. I don’t care what we are playing. I just think that has got to be our mindset. I think the mindset is different than what it is. If we are going to play, we need to go win. Everybody … says that, but I mean it. We need to go win.”
So, when I read between the lines, here is what Im hearing Hue say.....
1) Whoever I start this Thursday is the guy I think gives us the best chance to score and win
2) But......It may only be one game that he starts....
3) We will try to win a preseason game, but once the real season starts, we might go with a QB who doesnt give us the best chance to win....
Sounds like Hue "wants" to start one guy, but isnt confident he will have that guy going forward.....just my take.....
So, when I read between the lines, here is what Im hearing Hue say.....
1) Whoever I start this Thursday is the guy I think gives us the best chance to score and win
2) But......It may only be one game that he starts....
3) We will try to win a preseason game, but once the real season starts, we might go with a QB who doesnt give us the best chance to win....
Sounds like Hue "wants" to start one guy, but isnt confident he will have that guy going forward.....just my take.....
Happy B-day Mudman!! What are your thoughts on getting the Harvard Connection involved in Hue's decision? Group football decisions should not come from non-football people but this ties to Brock's future surely imo. I think the plan was Kizer at home (2 see where it goes) than showcase Brock on road final 2? I'd almost bet Kizer can't sleep on 1 bad toss up at scrimmage. Enjoy Your Day..
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