Ship Osweiler?
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My hunches are:
Kessler's arm limits him, and puts pressure on him to be successful in what he does well, the shorter passing game.
Oswilder (lol) should work out with Bernie Kosar, and learn to use his brain more than his feet. Maybe that would work.
He holds onto the ball too long. Maybe he's just thinking at this point.
Hogan, in practice that we went to... gets rid of the ball quickly. He does a nice job.
Kizer - just won't be ready to start - too much to learn for anybody. Look at last year's top two qb's... they had their
struggles. But it seems he may have a better arm than Wentz. Kizer may just be a future star.
Advantage to start - Kessler, He knows the offense, bigtime. At this point, so does Hogan. Looks like Hogan
has developed a much quicker release - he looks good.
Very interesting.
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My hunches are:
Kessler's arm limits him, and puts pressure on him to be successful in what he does well, the shorter passing game.
Oswilder (lol) should work out with Bernie Kosar, and learn to use his brain more than his feet. Maybe that would work.
He holds onto the ball too long. Maybe he's just thinking at this point.
Hogan, in practice that we went to... gets rid of the ball quickly. He does a nice job.
Kizer - just won't be ready to start - too much to learn for anybody. Look at last year's top two qb's... they had their
struggles. But it seems he may have a better arm than Wentz. Kizer may just be a future star.
Advantage to start - Kessler, He knows the offense, bigtime. At this point, so does Hogan. Looks like Hogan
has developed a much quicker release - he looks good.
Very interesting.
My hunches are:
Kessler's arm limits him, and puts pressure on him to be successful in what he does well, the shorter passing game.
Oswilder (lol) should work out with Bernie Kosar, and learn to use his brain more than his feet. Maybe that would work.
He holds onto the ball too long. Maybe he's just thinking at this point.
Hogan, in practice that we went to... gets rid of the ball quickly. He does a nice job.
Kizer - just won't be ready to start - too much to learn for anybody. Look at last year's top two qb's... they had their
struggles. But it seems he may have a better arm than Wentz. Kizer may just be a future star.
Advantage to start - Kessler, He knows the offense, bigtime. At this point, so does Hogan. Looks like Hogan
has developed a much quicker release - he looks good.
Very interesting.
Cant totally agree.....I think a HUGE part of the reason ALL these guys hold the ball is because no one is ever open.....even Hue alluded to that this week.....and it aint because our DB's are great....it's because our WR's aren't....
Kizer might have a stronger arm.....but I wouldnt call it "better", as touch and accuracy are completely lacking.....we've had strong armed inaccurate touchless QB's before.....Derek Anderson and Brandom Weeden being the most recent....
Hogan doesnt really "look good".....not at all....kind of scary that he stands out against Kessler and Kizer tho.....
Kessler does a short passing game well?....it's all he does and he never gets a TD or even a first down.....wouldnt call that doing well, really
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Here is part of the article that Gumby posted.....with some key comments highlighted....
The biggest tip-off of a switch to Osweiler – and not to rookie DeShone Kizer – was Jackson’s stated desire to win a game on Thursday to set a tone for the preseason. “I want to go through the weekend, go through last night and go through today and really sit down and make what I think is the best decision for our football team for Thursday night,” Jackson said. “That is what is important. I will keep stressing that Thursday night may be different than what the regular season may be. If it is, it is. If it isn’t, then it isn’t, too. My job is to make sure that I put the guy out there who gives us the best chance to score points and help this team win. That is what I’m going to do.” Jackson conceded that he has a different urgency about this preseason than last year, when the Browns went 0-4 in practice games and proceeded to lose 14 in a row in the real season en route to a 1-15 debacle. “I do not want to go 0-4 again,” Jackson said. “I don’t want to feel like that. I don’t think this team deserves that. We need to go out and play good in front of our fans and go win. I don’t care what we are playing. I just think that has got to be our mindset. I think the mindset is different than what it is. If we are going to play, we need to go win. Everybody … says that, but I mean it. We need to go win.”
So, when I read between the lines, here is what Im hearing Hue say.....
1) Whoever I start this Thursday is the guy I think gives us the best chance to score and win
2) But......It may only be one game that he starts....
3) We will try to win a preseason game, but once the real season starts, we might go with a QB who doesnt give us the best chance to win....
Sounds like Hue "wants" to start one guy, but isnt confident he will have that guy going forward.....just my take.....
So, when I read between the lines, here is what Im hearing Hue say.....
1) Whoever I start this Thursday is the guy I think gives us the best chance to score and win
2) But......It may only be one game that he starts....
3) We will try to win a preseason game, but once the real season starts, we might go with a QB who doesnt give us the best chance to win....
Sounds like Hue "wants" to start one guy, but isnt confident he will have that guy going forward.....just my take.....
Happy B-day Mudman!! What are your thoughts on getting the Harvard Connection involved in Hue's decision? Group football decisions should not come from non-football people but this ties to Brock's future surely imo. I think the plan was Kizer at home (2 see where it goes) than showcase Brock on road final 2? I'd almost bet Kizer can't sleep on 1 bad toss up at scrimmage. Enjoy Your Day..
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So, when I read between the lines, here is what Im hearing Hue say.....
1) Whoever I start this Thursday is the guy I think gives us the best chance to score and win
2) But......It may only be one game that he starts....
3) We will try to win a preseason game, but once the real season starts, we might go with a QB who doesnt give us the best chance to win....
Sounds like Hue "wants" to start one guy, but isnt confident he will have that guy going forward.....just my take.....
Happy B-day Mudman!! What are your thoughts on getting the Harvard Connection involved in Hue's decision? Group football decisions should not come from non-football people but this ties to Brock's future surely imo. I think the plan was Kizer at home (2 see where it goes) than showcase Brock on road final 2? I'd almost bet Kizer can't sleep on 1 bad toss up at scrimmage. Enjoy Your Day..
Happy B-day Mudman!! What are your thoughts on getting the Harvard Connection involved in Hue's decision? Group football decisions should not come from non-football people but this ties to Brock's future surely imo. I think the plan was Kizer at home (2 see where it goes) than showcase Brock on road final 2? I'd almost bet Kizer can't sleep on 1 bad toss up at scrimmage. Enjoy Your Day..
Well....I dont like the idea of consulting the Haavaad guys any more than you do....but think Huey has no choice......and think he is gun shy and afraid to go with Oz, because he knows they will trade him whether Hue wants them to or not....
Thats the issue....I dont think Hue is on board with so many of these moves....but he is a good camper....indeed....
So....my guess....he asks them "if oz does well, can I keep him?"........thats the consult....
Kizer(in his own words) gets in his own head way too much....can sleep, cant play, distracted, etc....thats why he had that shit year at ND....he said it, not me.....
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How would you feel about Trading Brock for the Phins back up Moore? He would be a good enough proven back up with a pissed attitude after getting the shaft in Miami (That is if we do stick with Kessler ) I mean he was the 2nd string and when the starter got hurt they over looked him? He was 2-2 last year as a starter........Just an idea. What we say does not amount to shit, just throwing the idea out there. To be honest I never thought Brock was going to make the team when we got him in the trade to begin with. GO BROWNS
@boo-fagley said:
You are correct Sir.
My mistake. If Tanny doesnt come back from this next season he could be gone, The Dolphins are in sort of a quandary at QB too. Drafting a QB in 2018 is not out of the realm of possibility.
Cool... I've been knighted...
Agree on Tanny... I think we both saw this as a year of great importance for him. It's going to be hard for MIA to stand pat with the season generating no additional input.
How would you feel about Trading Brock for the Phins back up Moore?
Ummmm... no.
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With his initials being B.O. I don't know why the Texans were so surprised when it turned out that he stinks...
With his initials being B.O. I don't know why the Texans were so surprised when it turned out that he stinks...
Welcome Aboard St.Pete,Fla...won't matter if his name was B Ooger if he puts more points on the board than the other team in Cleveland..He seems "all in" on Hues system with a positive taking to his teammates at this point..A good re-start is all he can show all teams
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Here is part of the article that Gumby posted.....with some key comments highlighted....
The biggest tip-off of a switch to Osweiler – and not to rookie DeShone Kizer – was Jackson’s stated desire to win a game on Thursday to set a tone for the preseason. “I want to go through the weekend, go through last night and go through today and really sit down and make what I think is the best decision for our football team for Thursday night,” Jackson said. “That is what is important. I will keep stressing that Thursday night may be different than what the regular season may be. If it is, it is. If it isn’t, then it isn’t, too. My job is to make sure that I put the guy out there who gives us the best chance to score points and help this team win. That is what I’m going to do.” Jackson conceded that he has a different urgency about this preseason than last year, when the Browns went 0-4 in practice games and proceeded to lose 14 in a row in the real season en route to a 1-15 debacle. “I do not want to go 0-4 again,” Jackson said. “I don’t want to feel like that. I don’t think this team deserves that. We need to go out and play good in front of our fans and go win. I don’t care what we are playing. I just think that has got to be our mindset. I think the mindset is different than what it is. If we are going to play, we need to go win. Everybody … says that, but I mean it. We need to go win.”
So, when I read between the lines, here is what Im hearing Hue say.....
1) Whoever I start this Thursday is the guy I think gives us the best chance to score and win
2) But......It may only be one game that he starts....
3) We will try to win a preseason game, but once the real season starts, we might go with a QB who doesnt give us the best chance to win....
Sounds like Hue "wants" to start one guy, but isnt confident he will have that guy going forward.....just my take.....
Jackson conceded that he has a different urgency about this preseason than last year, when the Browns went 0-4 in practice games and proceeded to lose 14 in a row in the real season en route to a 1-15 debacle. “I do not want to go 0-4 again,” Jackson said. “I don’t want to feel like that. I don’t think this team deserves that. We need to go out and play good in front of our fans and go win. I don’t care what we are playing. I just think that has got to be our mindset. I think the mindset is different than what it is. If we are going to play, we need to go win. Everybody … says that, but I mean it. We need to go win.”Man... that's putting a lot of undue emphasis on a meaningless game for a young team that does not know how to win. It's all good if you win it, but if you lose?
And even in a "win" it could force stupid decisions like playing starters longer than the customary series or two in the opener. Exposes them to injury and reduces the time the bubble players get... the players you want to see.
Well....I dont like the idea of consulting the Haavaad guys any more than you do....but think Huey has no choice......and think he is gun shy and afraid to go with Oz, because he knows they will trade him whether Hue wants them to or not....
So....my guess....he asks them "if oz does well, can I keep him?"........thats the consult....
Hadn't really thought about the role of "the Harvard guys" in the Osweiler deal before. What's interesting is that they chimed in at the time of the deal and weren't put off by Brock's prospects.
I'm sure their evaluations continue in frequent consultation with Hue.
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Well Cutler is off to Miami, so I guess we can put this to rest until the next starting QB goes down.
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Well Cutler is off to Miami, so I guess we can put this to rest until the next starting QB goes down.
Well Cutler is off to Miami, so I guess we can put this to rest until the next starting QB goes down.
So, where does that leave Kaepernick?
And, riddle me this....just looking at football, is he any worse than the guys we have on this team? (at least the so called veterans: B.O/ Kessler?
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@boo-fagley said:
Isn't that Tannys 2nd knee injury?
I think you have to bite the bullet and sign Kapernick if I am Miami.
It's the same knee and same injury that he did not have surgery to repair. Partial ACL tear that apparently should have been repaired when it happened late 2016.
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@boo-fagley said:
Why? His moves are solid.
This front office is different.
Eh....FO's dont pick who starts...coaches do....
How would shashi or Depo have any knowledge on which player looks best at camp??....neither are talent evaluators nor are they at camp....and both rely on coaches and scouts for their information......soooo, if they rely on their coaches to tell them who plays best, why would the coaches then need to consult them on who should start?....see the dilemma?
Unless, of course, the coach needs to know if that player is gonna be here when the season starts.....which is my point....
Nothing else for Shashi to input on.....cept that....^^^^
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@boo-fagley said:
Why? His moves are solid.
This front office is different.
Eh....FO's dont pick who starts...coaches do....
How would shashi or Depo have any knowledge on which player looks best at camp??....neither are talent evaluators nor are they at camp....and both rely on coaches and scouts for their information......soooo, if they rely on their coaches to tell them who plays best, why would the coaches then need to consult them on who should start?....see the dilemma?
Unless, of course, the coach needs to know if that player is gonna be here when the season starts.....which is my point....
Nothing else for Shashi to input on.....cept that....^^^^
Eh....FO's dont pick who starts...coaches do....
How would shashi or Depo have any knowledge on which player looks best at camp??....neither are talent evaluators nor are they at camp....and both rely on coaches and scouts for their information......soooo, if they rely on their coaches to tell them who plays best, why would the coaches then need to consult them on who should start?....see the dilemma?
Unless, of course, the coach needs to know if that player is gonna be here when the season starts.....which is my point....
Nothing else for Shashi to input on.....cept that....^^^^
Pretty huge "cept". 🥷
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@boo-fagley said:
Why? His moves are solid.
This front office is different.
Eh....FO's dont pick who starts...coaches do....
How would shashi or Depo have any knowledge on which player looks best at camp??....neither are talent evaluators nor are they at camp....and both rely on coaches and scouts for their information......soooo, if they rely on their coaches to tell them who plays best, why would the coaches then need to consult them on who should start?....see the dilemma?
Unless, of course, the coach needs to know if that player is gonna be here when the season starts.....which is my point....
Nothing else for Shashi to input on.....cept that....^^^^
Unless, of course, the coach needs to know if that player is gonna be here when the season starts.....which is my point....
Nothing else for Shashi to input on.....cept that....^^^^
Yup. Sashi has last say on the roster. So I'd imagine Hue has to communicate to Sashi, "Don't trade away Brock. I need him as my starter."
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I don't fully understand the theory that Brock can't be the QB of the future here. Guy's only 26, so probably has a lot of miles left.
I think my main issue was the bizarre ass spin on it when we picked him up. It was "Hey, we got another second round pick!!! ...and this guy." The FO could have totally handled that better.
"We thought this was a great opportunity to raise the level of competition in the QB room with a guy who has seen some success in the NF of L, and let him compete and blah blah blah..."
A part of me kinda wants to see the guy flip out midde fingers and 20 yard completions at such a high rate that he demands the starting job. I mean shit, we've tried every other path to a successful starting QB, why not that?
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Brock Lobster named starting QB of Browns first preseason game.
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Brock Lobster named starting QB of Browns first preseason game.
Brock Lobster named starting QB of Browns first preseason game.
Rock out with your Brock out
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@boo-fagley said:
Why? His moves are solid.
This front office is different.
Eh....FO's dont pick who starts...coaches do....
How would shashi or Depo have any knowledge on which player looks best at camp??....neither are talent evaluators nor are they at camp....and both rely on coaches and scouts for their information......soooo, if they rely on their coaches to tell them who plays best, why would the coaches then need to consult them on who should start?....see the dilemma?
Unless, of course, the coach needs to know if that player is gonna be here when the season starts.....which is my point....
Nothing else for Shashi to input on.....cept that....^^^^
How would shashi or Depo have any knowledge on which player looks best at camp??....neither are talent evaluators nor are they at camp....and both rely on coaches and scouts for their information......soooo, if they rely on their coaches to tell them who plays best, why would the coaches then need to consult them on who should start?....see the dilemma?
Camp is not in Berea?
Good question on how the FO would know. What are all of our scouts doing at present? Advance scouts have nothing to do until preseason games are underway. Are college scouts watching practices?
I would think having most, if not all, scouts in Berea right now, watching our practices when we're on the field and meeting when they are not to give feedback and set out their department's schedule for the coming season would make a lot of sense.
I don't fully understand the theory that Brock can't be the QB of the future here. Guy's only 26, so probably has a lot of miles left.
Age or miles isn't the issue... ceiling is. He was seen as a middling talent coming out of ASU and hasn't done much to change that view as a pro.
I think the surprise is the lack of 2nd year progress by Kess.
Brock Lobster named starting QB of Browns first preseason game.
SHOWCASE!
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
How would shashi or Depo have any knowledge on which player looks best at camp??....neither are talent evaluators nor are they at camp....and both rely on coaches and scouts for their information......soooo, if they rely on their coaches to tell them who plays best, why would the coaches then need to consult them on who should start?....see the dilemma?
Camp is not in Berea?
Good question on how the FO would know. What are all of our scouts doing at present? Advance scouts have nothing to do until preseason games are underway. Are college scouts watching practices?
I would think having most, if not all, scouts in Berea right now, watching our practices when we're on the field and meeting when they are not to give feedback and set out their department's schedule for the coming season would make a lot of sense.
I don't fully understand the theory that Brock can't be the QB of the future here. Guy's only 26, so probably has a lot of miles left.
Age or miles isn't the issue... ceiling is. He was seen as a middling talent coming out of ASU and hasn't done much to change that view as a pro.
I think the surprise is the lack of 2nd year progress by Kess.
Brock Lobster named starting QB of Browns first preseason game.
SHOWCASE!
SHOWCASE!
So....Ill guess that you agree there is a good chance he's gonna be gone......whether Hue wants him or not?
Or.....do you think Hue is BSing and he really doesnt believe Brock gives us the best chance to "score and win"...(his words)....
And....on the Hue consulting with Harvard guys thing.....what do think the convo centers around?......whether Hue can count on Brock being here or who Shashi thinks is best to start?......and why would Shashi input on that, other than a lack of trust in Hues opinion or that he has a plan that conflicts with Hues?
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SHOWCASE!
So....Ill guess that you agree there is a good chance he's gonna be gone......whether Hue wants him or not?
Or.....do you think Hue is BSing and he really doesnt believe Brock gives us the best chance to "score and win"...(his words)....
And....on the Hue consulting with Harvard guys thing.....what do think the convo centers around?......whether Hue can count on Brock being here or who Shashi thinks is best to start?......and why would Shashi input on that, other than a lack of trust in Hues opinion or that he has a plan that conflicts with Hues?
So....Ill guess that you agree there is a good chance he's gonna be gone......whether Hue wants him or not?
Or.....do you think Hue is BSing and he really doesnt believe Brock gives us the best chance to "score and win"...(his words)....
And....on the Hue consulting with Harvard guys thing.....what do think the convo centers around?......whether Hue can count on Brock being here or who Shashi thinks is best to start?......and why would Shashi input on that, other than a lack of trust in Hues opinion or that he has a plan that conflicts with Hues?
One reason Hue and Sachi may consult......because of Sachi's job. They may say: who the hell else is out there that we could bring in since Kessler, B.O. seem to be pure drivel.....and Kizer ain't ready.
Can you think of any names of any available QBs?
(FYI...I understand that the Dolphins actually had discussions....serious or not about both Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow...both having worked with Gase in Denver).
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SHOWCASE!
So....Ill guess that you agree there is a good chance he's gonna be gone......whether Hue wants him or not?
Or.....do you think Hue is BSing and he really doesnt believe Brock gives us the best chance to "score and win"...(his words)....
And....on the Hue consulting with Harvard guys thing.....what do think the convo centers around?......whether Hue can count on Brock being here or who Shashi thinks is best to start?......and why would Shashi input on that, other than a lack of trust in Hues opinion or that he has a plan that conflicts with Hues?
So....Ill guess that you agree there is a good chance he's gonna be gone......whether Hue wants him or not?
Or.....do you think Hue is BSing and he really doesnt believe Brock gives us the best chance to "score and win"...(his words)....
And....on the Hue consulting with Harvard guys thing.....what do think the convo centers around?......whether Hue can count on Brock being here or who Shashi thinks is best to start?......and why would Shashi input on that, other than a lack of trust in Hues opinion or that he has a plan that conflicts with Hues?
"Mr. Fader, you sure ask a lot of questions for someone from New Jersey!."
First, "Showcase" was a joke. Moving Brock to work against the 1's is not the way to showcase him. Whether he continues in the game against the 2's will be interesting. I still do not like the pressure Hue is generating for this game.
On your other points:
- I don't see us trading our regular-season starting QB out from under Hue.
- I believe Hue. At this point it seems Brock has earned the start that is three days away. It's a long way until regular season.
- I think there's room in Hue's and his Coordinators' week for a sit down with Department Heads comparing notes on what they are seeing out of every player. There would certainly be room in that to discuss any on-going trade inquires teams are making about any players we have rostered.
- I would also expect at least Sashi and Berry to be sitting in, but participating very little in, Hue's full staff meetings where players' progress is discussed.
- DePo and the real Analytics core? They likely tabulate what they see/measure in practice and submit reports daily to Hue as well as key FO.
Sashi & Co. sets the 53. Hue & Co. sets the starting lineup. That hasn't changed. That there is a potential conflict around a player means the conversation must flow. The only thing that can make any disagreement worse is if it is accompanied by surprise.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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