If you hate the Cleveland Browns rebuild, ignore this: Podcast
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I'm going to post this gumby73 thought from another thread because it DOES make sense.
The cupboards did not need to get stripped bare..We needed a QB..Once the plan of re-boot took place. We cut 4 Veterans.Tail-Telling soon after Benji, Mack & Schwartz "am booting out of here myself". Thinner than even the Harvards thought. Some bad decisions such as Gabriel with a few good moves also. Than leading to 2 drafts. #1.Taking 2nd hand draft picks while adding Draft Quantity to refill cupboards. That's really why Cory is here. #2.Moved down once gaining another 1st(Watson) while moving up more often than down to add....well whats 4 games tell ya..We need better Talented picks, not less value with more picks.
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I think he’s wrong on that. We did need to strip them bare. Well, maybe not needed to. But it was certainly the best plan. Makes for more long term success.
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Can somebody name one team that has stripped down(like the Browns have) then gone on to win a championship OR have "sustained" success....????......I already know the answer, which is no.....but I could name a 100 teams that have improved w/o stripping down.....one team please(and it should be a LOT more than one, if it's the "right" way to do it)
Please....someone....show me the precedent that says stripping down is the way to go.....
Gumby once posted the stat for 1-15 teams and what they did the next year.....the very worst of them all won 4 and most won more than that.....so, will we now be the worst 1-15 team ever?....yes......and this is some type of proof that stripping down is better?(please)
I would like to build up my savings account....perhaps emptying the account is the best way to start...???
and when all this "youth" comes of age at exactly the same moment, how will we afford to retain them?.....just curious....
We are building an unbalanced team....with very suspect players....and will continue to set records for ineptitude in drafting. FA acquisition, talent evaluation, game planning and coaching.....<<<<<<<and I dont think anyone can show me where this statement is wrong either......
Last year we were gonna "gel" and cream our jeans as we watched this team grow,,,,,,then it was gonna be this year.....but, wait, now it's next year?....is the 3rd year when we stop looking inept?.....then how many years till the playoffs?.....and is someone gonna tell me 5 year rebuilds are the way to go?......oh man.....
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we have taken the losing culture to new levels.....unprecedented levels for this org and the NFL.....these kids are gonna bail, lose interest, stop buying into Hues promises of success......and the good ones will move on, if we dont win very soon.....
Who wants to work for a company that is the worst in the industry?
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I think he’s wrong on that. We did need to strip them bare. Well, maybe not needed to. But it was certainly the best plan. Makes for more long term success.
I think he’s wrong on that. We did need to strip them bare. Well, maybe not needed to. But it was certainly the best plan. Makes for more long term success.
Under the proviso that we actually pick really well and far better than the normal "fail" rate.
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I think he’s wrong on that. We did need to strip them bare. Well, maybe not needed to. But it was certainly the best plan. Makes for more long term success.
Under the proviso that we actually pick really well and far better than the normal "fail" rate.
Under the proviso that we actually pick really well and far better than the normal "fail" rate.
and our FO has clearly stated that they cannot do that......which is why they need triple the picks everyone else needs.....
lets be clear......23 picks in 2 years(plus 15 FA's).....that is 37 hand picked players.....and a lot more than most teams get in 3 years.....so, technically, we should consider this equal to 3 drafts.....yet we see zero improvement in the win column......
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Under the proviso that we actually pick really well and far better than the normal "fail" rate.
and our FO has clearly stated that they cannot do that......which is why they need triple the picks everyone else needs.....
lets be clear......23 picks in 2 years(plus 15 FA's).....that is 37 hand picked players.....and a lot more than most teams get in 3 years.....so, technically, we should consider this equal to 3 drafts.....yet we see zero improvement in the win column......
and our FO has clearly stated that they cannot do that......which is why they need triple the picks everyone else needs.....
lets be clear......23 picks in 2 years(plus 15 FA's).....that is 37 hand picked players.....and a lot more than most teams get in 3 years.....so, technically, we should consider this equal to 3 drafts.....yet we see zero improvement in the win column......
Which still boggles my mind , as to why we hired harvard boys instead of real football people to procure talent..
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They are so bad that they are showing madden highlights on their facebook page, promoting this weeks game......
You cannot make this schit up.....seriously....
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Can somebody name one team that has stripped down(like the Browns have) then gone on to win a championship OR have "sustained" success....????......I already know the answer, which is no.....but I could name a 100 teams that have improved w/o stripping down.....one team please(and it should be a LOT more than one, if it's the "right" way to do it)
Please....someone....show me the precedent that says stripping down is the way to go.....
Gumby once posted the stat for 1-15 teams and what they did the next year.....the very worst of them all won 4 and most won more than that.....so, will we now be the worst 1-15 team ever?....yes......and this is some type of proof that stripping down is better?(please)
I would like to build up my savings account....perhaps emptying the account is the best way to start...???
and when all this "youth" comes of age at exactly the same moment, how will we afford to retain them?.....just curious....
We are building an unbalanced team....with very suspect players....and will continue to set records for ineptitude in drafting. FA acquisition, talent evaluation, game planning and coaching.....<<<<<<<and I dont think anyone can show me where this statement is wrong either......
Last year we were gonna "gel" and cream our jeans as we watched this team grow,,,,,,then it was gonna be this year.....but, wait, now it's next year?....is the 3rd year when we stop looking inept?.....then how many years till the playoffs?.....and is someone gonna tell me 5 year rebuilds are the way to go?......oh man.....
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Here's a quote from mudfly on another thread
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Here is a look at 2016 and 2017 top free agents we brought in(and lost)......for example.....contributing players are in red...
2016 Signed: Robert Earth Mover Griffin(gone), Demario Thomas(gone), Rahim Moore(gone), Justin Tuggle(gone), Alvin Bailey(gone), Don Jones(gone), Terrell Pryor(gone), Austin Paztor(gone).....and Jamal Taylor(the one and only still here....and kind of sucking right now)
2016 Lost: Mack, Schwartz, Gabriel, Benjiman, Robertson, Dansby, Gipson and Bademosi.....who are all contributing to better teams....and several are playing at a very high level right now....
Also lost Whitner, Bowe, Soloman and Manziel who all make sense....
So....2016....we let a bunch of good ones go and have benefitted exactly zero from the ones we signed.....and of the ones I see gone, Im not sure we have placed a "better" player at any of those positions.......I see 2 decent WR's(we have none).....I see 2 DB's that would, at least, add quality depth(and one who woulda started)....I see 2 LB's we coulds used.....
2017 signed.....J. Tretter(who isnt that good), Keven Zietler and Kenny Britt(terrible)
2017 we traded for Asspiler(gone), Calvin Pryor(gone), Sammy Coates (ugh)
2017 lost/released/traded....Greco(depth & versatility), Demario Thomas(last years "big" signing....traded for garbage and replaced by his backup Carder....as per usual), Pryor, Haden, Paztor.....
So....in 2 years we have signed or traded for 15 veteran players and have exactly 3 contributing(and our team bites....my grandma could contribute)....to me, that represents a team that is clueless...
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I agree that we did not have to strip down the roster the way that the brainiacs did. They think they're so friggin' smaaaat.
Other teams can use what they have and ADD talent to improve their team. But the Harvard Think Tank thought they'd just trash the roster and bring in college kids from the 4th round and beat the rest of the league.
After letting our OL go to the crapper and SEEING for themselves what happened, they spent a kazzioion dollars on the OL to try and fix what they screwed up.
At the moment the Harvard Think Tank doesn't look any smarter than graduates from an online college.
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Here's a quote from mudfly on another thread
--------------
Here is a look at 2016 and 2017 top free agents we brought in(and lost)......for example.....contributing players are in red...
2016 Signed: Robert Earth Mover Griffin(gone), Demario Thomas(gone), Rahim Moore(gone), Justin Tuggle(gone), Alvin Bailey(gone), Don Jones(gone), Terrell Pryor(gone), Austin Paztor(gone).....and Jamal Taylor(the one and only still here....and kind of sucking right now)
2016 Lost: Mack, Schwartz, Gabriel, Benjiman, Robertson, Dansby, Gipson and Bademosi.....who are all contributing to better teams....and several are playing at a very high level right now....
Also lost Whitner, Bowe, Soloman and Manziel who all make sense....
So....2016....we let a bunch of good ones go and have benefitted exactly zero from the ones we signed.....and of the ones I see gone, Im not sure we have placed a "better" player at any of those positions.......I see 2 decent WR's(we have none).....I see 2 DB's that would, at least, add quality depth(and one who woulda started)....I see 2 LB's we coulds used.....
2017 signed.....J. Tretter(who isnt that good), Keven Zietler and Kenny Britt(terrible)
2017 we traded for Asspiler(gone), Calvin Pryor(gone), Sammy Coates (ugh)
2017 lost/released/traded....Greco(depth & versatility), Demario Thomas(last years "big" signing....traded for garbage and replaced by his backup Carder....as per usual), Pryor, Haden, Paztor.....
So....in 2 years we have signed or traded for 15 veteran players and have exactly 3 contributing(and our team bites....my grandma could contribute)....to me, that represents a team that is clueless...
------------------end quote.
I agree that we did not have to strip down the roster the way that the brainiacs did. They think they're so friggin' smaaaat.
Other teams can use what they have and ADD talent to improve their team. But the Harvard Think Tank thought they'd just trash the roster and bring in college kids from the 4th round and beat the rest of the league.
After letting our OL go to the crapper and SEEING for themselves what happened, they spent a kazzioion dollars on the OL to try and fix what they screwed up.
At the moment the Harvard Think Tank doesn't look any smarter than graduates from an online college.
At the moment the Harvard Think Tank doesn't look any smarter than graduates from an online college.
All hail Trump U.
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Fine with the rebuild strategy. I question the players we take and more importantly the ones we don't.
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Fine with the rebuild strategy. I question the players we take and more importantly the ones we don't.
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The problem with the fans and this plan is because they stripped the entire roster bare people seem to be expecting them to hit on EVERY draft pick. Or it’s a failure
No front office gets it right every time and nor will this one. I’ve always thought their idea of plan was the right one, I still do, but that doesn’t mean all the picks are going to work. They clearly won’t
The problem with the fans and this plan is because they stripped the entire roster bare people seem to be expecting them to hit on EVERY draft pick. Or it’s a failure
No front office gets it right every time and nor will this one. I’ve always thought their idea of plan was the right one, I still do, but that doesn’t mean all the picks are going to work. They clearly won’t
Right, Right, Your Bloody well right..Hail the King of London Games
and our FO has clearly stated that they cannot do that......which is why they need triple the picks everyone else needs.....
lets be clear......23 picks in 2 years(plus 15 FA's).....that is 37 hand picked players.....and a lot more than most teams get in 3 years.....so, technically, we should consider this equal to 3 drafts.....yet we see zero improvement in the win column......
The wins should come Mud. Hue must get better in a lot of ways. Seems were either on The Highway to Hell trail or on the Fast Track to maybe more deserved Bitonio & Kirksey contract Extensions.. Light should shine brighter in next season. But it will take as always both drafting better pieces & more good FA additions such as Collins & maybe McCourty down the road..The TE Position looks promising for a while. Would you extend any of these Players? Duke,Telfer,Shelton,Orchard,Schobert,Campbell,Kindred,B.Calhoun,D.Alexander or Crow? Some boarder line players still in that group. These need just more field simmering to evaluate as a late riser as Kirksey did imo.. Naz,Ogbah,C.Coleman,Drango...I really like the early arrival of Shon Coleman & Ogunjobi..With this next QB class, why not 2? BTW-The next WR class may end up short of any NFL depth? Looks like the FO anal-lynic dept. is all over it taking some shots now..
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Well that has to be the attitude as opposed to saying we focked up and we really don't know our asses from holes in the ground. And I'm sure these people know a million times more than I do, or we do, about professional football. If and when it works out I'll be happy as a pig shitt to eat my words.
Still if I'd been the general manager of the Cleveland Browns for the last decade or so I don't suppose we'd have been much worse . Just saying.
WSS
Still if I'd been the general manager of the Cleveland Browns for the last decade or so I don't suppose we'd have been much worse . Just saying.
WSS
I don't know you at all, but I bet if you were GM you could produce more than 1 win.
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It’s never been tried. So while we can’t provide you a stripped down team that has had success, you also can’t provide a team that’s stripped their team down and NOT had success.
Browns ?
What we're seeing is BELOW expansion team quality.
Remember, Billy Beane, for all the "money ball" hype, never won a title.
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Thanks for the thread Tour. I needed this.
I blew my cork last Sunday watching uninspired play, and am upset with myself that I did so. I have never been a "negative Fan" yet I WAS for a bit this week. While having that setback when angry, I STILL think we are heading in the right direction & I am re-committing to showing patience & support for the plan in place.
Mike
Thanks for the thread Tour. I needed this.
My name is Tour... and I'm here to help.
Yes, Sashi and the Harvard Think Tank have a plan. That's nice and all. But are they the right people to be actually DRAFTING FOOTBALL PLAYERS? AND NOT DRAFTING OTHER PLAYERS? Are they the right talent evaluators?
Well... they are NOT the people evaluating talent or drafting players... so there's that.
The problem with the fans and this plan is because they stripped the entire roster bare people seem to be expecting them to hit on EVERY draft pick. Or it’s a failure
No front office gets it right every time and nor will this one. I’ve always thought their idea of plan was the right one, I still do, but that doesn’t mean all the picks are going to work. They clearly won’t
Bingo... When I have some time I'll look back at our two drafts under this FO compared to the other 31 franchises. I think we'll look pretty damn good.
Still if I'd been the general manager of the Cleveland Browns for the last decade or so I don't suppose we'd have been much worse . Just saying.
lol... set a low bar much? Would you have been any better?
I think he’s wrong on that. We did need to strip them bare. Well, maybe not needed to. But it was certainly the best plan. Makes for more long term success.
Agree... it was the point of the entire podcast.
You can (and we did) languish in the 3-7 win hell forever. We never built a nucleus. We stole wins with modest talent and a sprinkling of FAs were could lure thru a combo of money and personal relationships, e.g. hire staff who'd worked with FA's before.
It's purgatory... neither heaven nor hell.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thanks for the thread Tour. I needed this.
My name is Tour... and I'm here to help.
Yes, Sashi and the Harvard Think Tank have a plan. That's nice and all. But are they the right people to be actually DRAFTING FOOTBALL PLAYERS? AND NOT DRAFTING OTHER PLAYERS? Are they the right talent evaluators?
Well... they are NOT the people evaluating talent or drafting players... so there's that.
The problem with the fans and this plan is because they stripped the entire roster bare people seem to be expecting them to hit on EVERY draft pick. Or it’s a failure
No front office gets it right every time and nor will this one. I’ve always thought their idea of plan was the right one, I still do, but that doesn’t mean all the picks are going to work. They clearly won’t
Bingo... When I have some time I'll look back at our two drafts under this FO compared to the other 31 franchises. I think we'll look pretty damn good.
Still if I'd been the general manager of the Cleveland Browns for the last decade or so I don't suppose we'd have been much worse . Just saying.
lol... set a low bar much? Would you have been any better?
I think he’s wrong on that. We did need to strip them bare. Well, maybe not needed to. But it was certainly the best plan. Makes for more long term success.
Agree... it was the point of the entire podcast.
You can (and we did) languish in the 3-7 win hell forever. We never built a nucleus. We stole wins with modest talent and a sprinkling of FAs were could lure thru a combo of money and personal relationships, e.g. hire staff who'd worked with FA's before.
It's purgatory... neither heaven nor hell.
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It’s never been tried. So while we can’t provide you a stripped down team that has had success, you also can’t provide a team that’s stripped their team down and NOT had success.
Browns ?
What we're seeing is BELOW expansion team quality.
Remember, Billy Beane, for all the "money ball" hype, never won a title.
Browns ?
What we're seeing is BELOW expansion team quality.
Remember, Billy Beane, for all the "money ball" hype, never won a title.
Theo Epstein has done very well using the same principles.
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