FO you are much too good to us
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To be quite frank, unless you are hiring a Peyton Manning to take over football operations,
Serious question, HB... one I've yet to receive a reply to...
What are P. Manning's qualifications to be a GM?
Serious question, HB... one I've yet to receive a reply to...
What are P. Manning's qualifications to be a GM?
I think the short, snarky, answer is, same as Elway's
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The problem that many "Doom & Gloomers" is when you trade your valuable picks to acquire more under the guise of, "hey we got this awesome plan" you can't play the hindsight is 20/20 card.
Garrett and another high pick, Shelton? Ok, no issue let that play out.
Solid LBers. Ok I'm on board with this if the 3 week Collins Concussion was nothing but a blip. The Peppers thing is crazy. The question I'd ask is, why is Peppers playing out of position and if you are a coach how do you look the other defensive players in the face and say, "dude suck it up I'm p[laying Peppers out of position to see if he might be able to play somewhere else". I tend to believe someone got a boner over his tape and measurables and thought they could plugged him in anywhere and he'd be successful. I remember Hue in post draft interviews talking about possibly playing him on offense. He's what 20th in Kickoff Returns Average and 22nd in Punt Return Average.
O-Line that looks solid. I agree but still hard to judge with a rookie QB and no "speed talent"
A raw TE? Hanging your hat on raw TE, c'mon man.
Corey Coleman, that's laughable.
RB, doesn't matter who's back there when you're down 21 with 8 in the box.
QB, with each passing week all the current crop of college QBs look worse and worse.
Trust the Process
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I'll say my piece and leave it. I think Hue needs to stay, but with an OC to call plays. I get that he is a guy known for creating great offenses, but his biggest strength is motivating and caring for his players. Those are great head coaching strengths and he just needs to focus on being the main guy. In terms of the FO, outside of hiring an actual team president, I don't see how we can change anything. I like most of the talent we have put on the field. I like how we maneuver the draft and some how trade away bad talent for draft picks. They just need to finally pull the trigger on someone. I'm not going to fault them for not taking a guy who is only showing success running a RGIII style offense. People want to be the hind sight police, but most of the media and most of the people on here applauded both drafts after the fact, most people didn't want to see Watson selected (me included).
To be quite frank, unless you are hiring a Peyton Manning to take over football operations, I think you need to give these guys 1-2 more years. People forget that Hue was the best coaching candidate available when we hired him. People forget that the two previous times we hired a coach we were stuck with our 5th and 6th best choices. All any coach will look at is Hue being promised that he will get 4 years and see that he got Sheet canned in 2 and they will know that they are better off going else where. The only way to create a stable franchise to to stick with the guys you hire to run it. If they tell you they need 4 years get things turned around, and you hire them after saying they have 4 years, you sure as Sheet better give them the 4 years to get the jobs done.
I'll say my piece and leave it. I think Hue needs to stay, but with an OC to call plays. I get that he is a guy known for creating great offenses, but his biggest strength is motivating and caring for his players. Those are great head coaching strengths and he just needs to focus on being the main guy. In terms of the FO, outside of hiring an actual team president, I don't see how we can change anything. I like most of the talent we have put on the field. I like how we maneuver the draft and some how trade away bad talent for draft picks. They just need to finally pull the trigger on someone. I'm not going to fault them for not taking a guy who is only showing success running a RGIII style offense. People want to be the hind sight police, but most of the media and most of the people on here applauded both drafts after the fact, most people didn't want to see Watson selected (me included).
To be quite frank, unless you are hiring a Peyton Manning to take over football operations, I think you need to give these guys 1-2 more years. People forget that Hue was the best coaching candidate available when we hired him. People forget that the two previous times we hired a coach we were stuck with our 5th and 6th best choices. All any coach will look at is Hue being promised that he will get 4 years and see that he got Sheet canned in 2 and they will know that they are better off going else where. The only way to create a stable franchise to to stick with the guys you hire to run it. If they tell you they need 4 years get things turned around, and you hire them after saying they have 4 years, you sure as Sheet better give them the 4 years to get the jobs done.
I’m with you on Hue, I would let him stay but he MUST hire an OC.
I like the way the FO can wheel and deal, but they need to hire someone with some NFL experience.
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I'll say my piece and leave it. I think Hue needs to stay, but with an OC to call plays. I get that he is a guy known for creating great offenses, but his biggest strength is motivating and caring for his players. Those are great head coaching strengths and he just needs to focus on being the main guy. In terms of the FO, outside of hiring an actual team president, I don't see how we can change anything. I like most of the talent we have put on the field. I like how we maneuver the draft and some how trade away bad talent for draft picks. They just need to finally pull the trigger on someone. I'm not going to fault them for not taking a guy who is only showing success running a RGIII style offense. People want to be the hind sight police, but most of the media and most of the people on here applauded both drafts after the fact, most people didn't want to see Watson selected (me included).
To be quite frank, unless you are hiring a Peyton Manning to take over football operations, I think you need to give these guys 1-2 more years. People forget that Hue was the best coaching candidate available when we hired him. People forget that the two previous times we hired a coach we were stuck with our 5th and 6th best choices. All any coach will look at is Hue being promised that he will get 4 years and see that he got Sheet canned in 2 and they will know that they are better off going else where. The only way to create a stable franchise to to stick with the guys you hire to run it. If they tell you they need 4 years get things turned around, and you hire them after saying they have 4 years, you sure as Sheet better give them the 4 years to get the jobs done.
I’m with you on Hue, I would let him stay but he MUST hire an OC.
I like the way the FO can wheel and deal, but they need to hire someone with some NFL experience.
I’m with you on Hue, I would let him stay but he MUST hire an OC.
I like the way the FO can wheel and deal, but they need to hire someone with some NFL experience.
The only issue I have with criticizing Hue's play calling is he's got zero talent at QB and WR. Even more difficult when you find yourself down 14-17 points early. I've been saying this consistently through Mangini, Shurmur, Chud, Pettine, etc. You can coach Sheet talent. Good players make coaches look great. We'll see how many games the Packers win without Rodgers.
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remember when the oline as a whole got qb's killed with no time to throw?
Ahh yes. I remember it well. I used to call it a footrace between the DLine and the QB as to who could get to the 'drop back and pass' spot on the field first.
Remember the game where Jamal Lewis set a new single game rushing record vs the Browns?
Yup. Teams didn't even have to pass against us. I think they only DID pass so as to keep sharp....like at practice or something.
....and just this past week we set ANOTHER team record......most road losses in a row.
But I hear ya.....we're better at stopping the run in this passing league.....and we're better at protecting our bum QB's. It's just that we're worse at getting wins.
But I hear ya.....we're better at stopping the run in this passing league.....and we're better at protecting our bum QB's. It's just that we're worse at getting wins.
I will try cheering for bad plays next week. Not to be bitter, just to have something to cheer for. Plus maybe if enough of us do it the football gods will be confused...
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The problem that many "Doom & Gloomers" is when you trade your valuable picks to acquire more under the guise of, "hey we got this awesome plan" you can't play the hindsight is 20/20 card.
Garrett and another high pick, Shelton? Ok, no issue let that play out.
Solid LBers. Ok I'm on board with this if the 3 week Collins Concussion was nothing but a blip. The Peppers thing is crazy. The question I'd ask is, why is Peppers playing out of position and if you are a coach how do you look the other defensive players in the face and say, "dude suck it up I'm p[laying Peppers out of position to see if he might be able to play somewhere else". I tend to believe someone got a boner over his tape and measurables and thought they could plugged him in anywhere and he'd be successful. I remember Hue in post draft interviews talking about possibly playing him on offense. He's what 20th in Kickoff Returns Average and 22nd in Punt Return Average.
O-Line that looks solid. I agree but still hard to judge with a rookie QB and no "speed talent"
A raw TE? Hanging your hat on raw TE, c'mon man.
Corey Coleman, that's laughable.
RB, doesn't matter who's back there when you're down 21 with 8 in the box.
QB, with each passing week all the current crop of college QBs look worse and worse.
Trust the Process
The problem that many "Doom & Gloomers" is when you trade your valuable picks to acquire more under the guise of, "hey we got this awesome plan" you can't play the hindsight is 20/20 card.
Garrett and another high pick, Shelton? Ok, no issue let that play out.
Solid LBers. Ok I'm on board with this if the 3 week Collins Concussion was nothing but a blip. The Peppers thing is crazy. The question I'd ask is, why is Peppers playing out of position and if you are a coach how do you look the other defensive players in the face and say, "dude suck it up I'm p[laying Peppers out of position to see if he might be able to play somewhere else". I tend to believe someone got a boner over his tape and measurables and thought they could plugged him in anywhere and he'd be successful. I remember Hue in post draft interviews talking about possibly playing him on offense. He's what 20th in Kickoff Returns Average and 22nd in Punt Return Average.
O-Line that looks solid. I agree but still hard to judge with a rookie QB and no "speed talent"
A raw TE? Hanging your hat on raw TE, c'mon man.
Corey Coleman, that's laughable.
RB, doesn't matter who's back there when you're down 21 with 8 in the box.
QB, with each passing week all the current crop of college QBs look worse and worse.
Trust the Process
never trust the process unless you know what the process is. and you and i and every fan in between has no idea what the process is.
they want everyone in every part of biz and politics totday to be thoroughly transparent about every aspect of what they do, yet we don't know why the browns didn't pick wentz or goff or mariota or bortles or.......
and those were the front-runners. those that fell between the cracks like a prescott or a watson or whoever else always fall into other people's laps...........never ours.
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Is it the FO? Or is it the coaching?
From what I glean, I don't think the talent is really all that bad on this team. I really don't. It is young and inexperienced...and is lacking in a few spots....but overall, I don't see that the Browns talent takes much of a back seat to the rest of the division.
Pitts has a couple of guys, like AB and BR that are better talents than what we have at those spots....but that is about it.
Baltimore? Who do they got? Maybe Flacco.
Cincy? AJ Green and Geno Atkins?
No.....this "plan" could work from the talent acquisition standpoint.....with the addition of some real receivers and a real QB.
But my God, this team plays so poorly with the talent they have.
Can it actually be that Hue is just this bad of a coach? Can it be that Ghoolie is right about him. From the evidence I have seen, that is a big, big part of it.
I think our coaches are fine - Hue is terrific. However, I think Hue needs to hire an OC and let the OC call the plays. My Wife and I can'
sit there and predict what Hue will call. Seems that he is trying to protect Kizer by running on first and second down so much, thathe is putting Kizer in trouble on 3rd and longs. He did, finally, surprise me and threw on first down last Sunday.and Hogan was the qb. Now, what the heyl is up with that?
I will say, that as much as I respect Coleman, he wasn't on my list that draft. Like Canton Mike has told me several times, Michael Thomas was the bigger wr he wanted. Michael Thomas went in the 2nd round. The Browns went with Coleman. Wonder why. Oh,...the Browns had signed RGIII, out of Baylor, earlier that spring. Coincidence? I think not.
In two games, Michael Thomas, with the Saints, has caught 15 passes for 176 yards and two touchdowns.Did anybody on this board want them to draft the small kid out of Baylor? I don't think so. If we find out Kizer is only RGIII from another college...well,
Sorry Hue, but it's time to let somebody else pick the qb. Let me pick the next one, or just call me and ask my opinion. I want the kid
out of Northwestern. You heard it here first, on the Brownsboard. and btw, the wr I want in the first round with the other pick?
Sutton. NOT the big high ranked kid out of Notre Dame.
I think our coaches are fine - Hue is terrific. However, I think Hue needs to hire an OC and let the OC call the plays. My Wife and I can'
sit there and predict what Hue will call. Seems that he is trying to protect Kizer by running on first and second down so much, thathe is putting Kizer in trouble on 3rd and longs. He did, finally, surprise me and threw on first down last Sunday.and Hogan was the qb. Now, what the heyl is up with that?
I will say, that as much as I respect Coleman, he wasn't on my list that draft. Like Canton Mike has told me several times, Michael Thomas was the bigger wr he wanted. Michael Thomas went in the 2nd round. The Browns went with Coleman. Wonder why. Oh,...the Browns had signed RGIII, out of Baylor, earlier that spring. Coincidence? I think not.
In two games, Michael Thomas, with the Saints, has caught 15 passes for 176 yards and two touchdowns.Did anybody on this board want them to draft the small kid out of Baylor? I don't think so. If we find out Kizer is only RGIII from another college...well,
Sorry Hue, but it's time to let somebody else pick the qb. Let me pick the next one, or just call me and ask my opinion. I want the kid
out of Northwestern. You heard it here first, on the Brownsboard. and btw, the wr I want in the first round with the other pick?
Sutton. NOT the big high ranked kid out of Notre Dame.
Can't draft Buckeyes. It's their law -
I'll say my piece and leave it. I think Hue needs to stay, but with an OC to call plays. I get that he is a guy known for creating great offenses, but his biggest strength is motivating and caring for his players. Those are great head coaching strengths and he just needs to focus on being the main guy. In terms of the FO, outside of hiring an actual team president, I don't see how we can change anything. I like most of the talent we have put on the field. I like how we maneuver the draft and some how trade away bad talent for draft picks. They just need to finally pull the trigger on someone. I'm not going to fault them for not taking a guy who is only showing success running a RGIII style offense. People want to be the hind sight police, but most of the media and most of the people on here applauded both drafts after the fact, most people didn't want to see Watson selected (me included).
To be quite frank, unless you are hiring a Peyton Manning to take over football operations, I think you need to give these guys 1-2 more years. People forget that Hue was the best coaching candidate available when we hired him. People forget that the two previous times we hired a coach we were stuck with our 5th and 6th best choices. All any coach will look at is Hue being promised that he will get 4 years and see that he got Sheet canned in 2 and they will know that they are better off going else where. The only way to create a stable franchise to to stick with the guys you hire to run it. If they tell you they need 4 years get things turned around, and you hire them after saying they have 4 years, you sure as Sheet better give them the 4 years to get the jobs done.
his biggest strength is motivating and caring for his players. Those are great head coaching strengths and he just needs to focus on being the main guy.
Exactly
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Baconhound, bring back the dog smoking avatar. That was the best on this site other than maybe Zombo’s.
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I think the short, snarky, answer is, same as Elway's
Hey... I love snark!
Elway joined the Broncos FO as Executive VP in 2011. The then GM stayed on thru that draft season before leaving at which time Elway assumed the GM role. Let's look at his track record...
First his drafts...
Misc Passing Rushing Receiving Year Rnd Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2017 1 Garett Bolles 20 T 2017 0 0 1 0 5 Utah 2017 2 DeMarcus Walker 51 DE 2017 0 0 0 0 5 Florida St. 2017 3 Carlos Henderson 82 WR 0 0 0 Louisiana Tech 2017 3 Brendan Langley 101 CB 2017 0 0 0 0 3 Lamar 2017 5 Jake Butt 145 TE 0 0 0 Michigan 2017 5 Isaiah McKenzie 172 WR 2017 0 0 0 0 5 1 4 0 1 0 0 Georgia 2017 6 De'Angelo Henderson 203 RB 2017 0 0 0 0 3 1 1 0 Coastal Carolina 2017 7 Chad Kelly 253 QB 0 0 0 Mississippi Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2016 1 Paxton Lynch 26 QB 2016 0 0 0 1 3 49 83 497 2 1 11 25 0 Memphis 2016 2 Adam Gotsis 63 DT 2017 0 0 1 2 21 1.0 Georgia Tech 2016 3 Justin Simmons 98 FS 2017 0 0 1 2 18 3 1.0 Boston Col. 2016 4 Devontae Booker 136 RB 2017 0 0 0 5 18 178 628 4 35 343 1 Utah 2016 5 Connor McGovern 144 G 2017 0 0 0 0 5 Missouri 2016 6 Andy Janovich 176 FB 2017 0 0 0 1 16 5 35 1 5 44 0 Nebraska 2016 6 Will Parks 219 S 2017 0 0 0 1 21 1 Arizona 2016 7 Riley Dixon 228 P 2017 0 0 2 2 21 1 1 16 0 0 Syracuse Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2015 1 Shane Ray 23 DE 2016 0 0 1 8 30 12.0 Missouri 2015 2 Ty Sambrailo 59 T 2017 0 0 0 3 18 Colorado St. 2015 3 Jeff Heuerman 92 TE 2017 0 0 0 1 17 13 200 1 Ohio St. 2015 4 Max Garcia 133 C 2017 0 0 2 9 36 Florida 2015 5 Lorenzo Doss 164 CB 2017 0 0 0 0 14 Tulane 2015 6 Darius Kilgo 203 NT 2016 0 0 0 2 18 Maryland 2015 7 Trevor Siemian 250 QB 2017 0 0 2 9 20 397 662 4665 26 16 48 111 1 Northwestern 2015 7 Taurean Nixon 251 DB 2016 0 0 0 0 2 Tulane 2015 7 Josh Furman 252 DB 0 0 0 Oklahoma St. Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2014 1 Bradley Roby 31 DB 2017 0 0 0 8 53 6 2.0 Ohio St. 2014 2 Cody Latimer 56 WR 2017 0 0 0 1 37 2 1 0 18 180 1 Indiana 2014 3 Michael Schofield 95 OL 2017 0 0 2 13 35 Michigan 2014 5 Lamin Barrow 156 LB 2015 0 0 0 2 32 LSU 2014 6 Matt Paradis 207 OL 2017 0 0 3 12 37 Boise St. 2014 7 Corey Nelson 242 LB 2017 0 0 0 6 53 1.0 Oklahoma Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2013 1 Sylvester Williams 28 DT 2017 0 0 4 23 65 5.5 North Carolina 2013 2 Montee Ball 58 RB 2014 0 0 0 8 21 175 731 5 29 207 0 Wisconsin 2013 3 Kayvon Webster 90 DB 2017 0 0 1 5 58 1 South Florida 2013 5 Quanterus Smith 146 DE 2014 0 0 0 1 15 West. Kentucky 2013 5 Tavarres King 161 WR 2017 0 0 0 0 10 5 70 0 Georgia 2013 6 Vinston Painter 173 G 2017 0 0 0 0 9 Virginia Tech 2013 7 Zac Dysert 234 QB 0 0 0 Miami (OH) Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2012 2 Derek Wolfe 36 DT 2017 0 0 6 32 74 23.5 Cincinnati 2012 2 Brock Osweiler 57 QB 2017 0 0 1 10 37 490 819 5101 26 22 71 180 3 1 -14 0 Arizona St. 2012 3 Ronnie Hillman 67 RB 2016 0 0 1 17 56 494 1976 12 74 524 1 San Diego St. 2012 4 Omar Bolden 101 DB 2015 0 0 0 5 56 Arizona St. 2012 4 Philip Blake 108 OL 2012 0 0 0 0 Baylor 2012 5 Malik Jackson 137 DT 2017 0 0 3 24 84 22.5 Tennessee 2012 6 Danny Trevathan 188 LB 2017 0 0 4 24 64 5 5.0 Kentucky Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2011 1 Von Miller 2 LB 2017 3 5 7 72 93 1 78.5 Texas A&M 2011 2 Rahim Moore 45 DB 2015 0 0 3 20 64 9 1.0 UCLA 2011 2 Orlando Franklin 46 T 2016 0 0 6 40 89 Miami (FL) 2011 3 Nate Irving 67 LB 2015 0 0 1 9 62 3.0 North Carolina St. 2011 4 Quinton Carter 108 DB 2014 0 0 1 5 30 2.0 Oklahoma 2011 4 Julius Thomas 129 TE 2017 0 2 4 18 62 197 2126 33 Portland St. 2011 6 Mike Mohamed 189 LB 2015 0 0 0 4 26 1 California 2011 7 Virgil Green 204 TE 2017 0 0 3 5 89 2 3 0 64 713 4 Nevada 2011 7 Jeremy Beal 247 DL 2012 0 0 0 0 Oklahoma I think we can agree that John's area of expertise is QB and maybe receivers. DL? Not so much... nor LBs or OL. TEs and DBs... maybe some.
Noteworthy is John's drafting of a QB in 5 of his 6 years. And of those he's picked he's done better on Day 3 (Dysert, Siemian, Kelly) than he has Days 1 and 2 (Osweiler, Lynch).
Overall to my eye after some good early years, the quality of his drafts seem to be tapering off. The areas they seem to fare the best in the draft? Looks like the DL followed by the OL.
So how has Denver contended during his time including their most recent SB win? FA... P. Manning, Demarcus Ware and Aquib Talib were all big name "gets" that helped propel them. FA is the place where franchises "on the verge" go to add those last couple pieces to make that last push to the Lombardi. What it can't do is sustain a team's excellence... at least not if you continually shop at the top of the FA market.
Elway might be a great Exec... he definitely seems to be a helluva salesman which is a big part of FA recruiting. In another year or two we'll see where Denver is and how good he is as "the Decider".
What he is not... what P. Manning is not... is some kind of omniscient, SuperScout, which best I can tell is what the P. Manning crowd is expecting. They may as well be wishing for the Toothfairy.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What he is not... what P. Manning is not... is some kind of omniscient, SuperScout, which best I can tell is what the P. Manning crowd is expecting. They may as well be wishing for the Toothfairy.
what I would hope for or expect is that he'd be better than the seasoned professionals that have held that position up to now. I don't imagine that he would do worse. As a matter of fact I don't suppose any guy on this board would have done substantially worse.
WSS
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Baconhound, bring back the dog smoking avatar. That was the best on this site other than maybe Zombo’s.
Baconhound, bring back the dog smoking avatar. That was the best on this site other than maybe Zombo’s.
Sorry wasn't me
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/cleveland_may_not_be_strong_en.html
I guess it's the old "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" idea.
WSS
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/cleveland_may_not_be_strong_en.html
I guess it's the old "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" idea.
WSS
He.is a moron.
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FFS.
"P.Manning For GM" is exactly why teams suck for a long time. He was good on the field but that has no correlation to his decision-making after the chinstrap is unbuckled.
We have talent on this roster - it's not perfect but no roster is. Look at the Ravens -- Name one player on their offense who you'd take on this roster this season.. I wouldn't take Flacco because his contract is terrible while his skill is barely a smurf's asshair above average. Other than him, Browns are better at every position, including WR. And their [our?] GM is supposed to be an icon even though he still hasn't drafted a usable WR since they became the Ravens.
Bringing in some fool won't get either raw talent or a legitimately successful scheme to win. Williams will keep blitzing every other play and we'll keep losing until we get a AllPro starting QB.. and then magically when playing from ahead, blitzing every play will work.
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Baconhound, bring back the dog smoking avatar. That was the best on this site other than maybe Zombo’s.
Sorry wasn't me
Sorry wasn't me
Dang. Who was it that had that? It was some London dude.
He.is a moron.
Thought you were leaving though?
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FFS.
"P.Manning For GM" is exactly why teams suck for a long time. He was good on the field but that has no correlation to his decision-making after the chinstrap is unbuckled.
We have talent on this roster - it's not perfect but no roster is. Look at the Ravens -- Name one player on their offense who you'd take on this roster this season.. I wouldn't take Flacco because his contract is terrible while his skill is barely a smurf's asshair above average. Other than him, Browns are better at every position, including WR. And their [our?] GM is supposed to be an icon even though he still hasn't drafted a usable WR since they became the Ravens.
Bringing in some fool won't get either raw talent or a legitimately successful scheme to win. Williams will keep blitzing every other play and we'll keep losing until we get a AllPro starting QB.. and then magically when playing from ahead, blitzing every play will work.
FFS.
"P.Manning For GM" is exactly why teams suck for a long time. He was good on the field but that has no correlation to his decision-making after the chinstrap is unbuckled.
We have talent on this roster - it's not perfect but no roster is. Look at the Ravens -- Name one player on their offense who you'd take on this roster this season.. I wouldn't take Flacco because his contract is terrible while his skill is barely a smurf's asshair above average. Other than him, Browns are better at every position, including WR. And their [our?] GM is supposed to be an icon even though he still hasn't drafted a usable WR since they became the Ravens.
Bringing in some fool won't get either raw talent or a legitimately successful scheme to win. Williams will keep blitzing every other play and we'll keep losing until we get a AllPro starting QB.. and then magically when playing from ahead, blitzing every play will work.
So how much worse could it be? This level of incompetence is almost unparalleled in the history of the game.
WSS
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I think the short, snarky, answer is, same as Elway's
Hey... I love snark!
Elway joined the Broncos FO as Executive VP in 2011. The then GM stayed on thru that draft season before leaving at which time Elway assumed the GM role. Let's look at his track record...
First his drafts...
Misc Passing Rushing Receiving Year Rnd Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2017 1 Garett Bolles 20 T 2017 0 0 1 0 5 Utah 2017 2 DeMarcus Walker 51 DE 2017 0 0 0 0 5 Florida St. 2017 3 Carlos Henderson 82 WR 0 0 0 Louisiana Tech 2017 3 Brendan Langley 101 CB 2017 0 0 0 0 3 Lamar 2017 5 Jake Butt 145 TE 0 0 0 Michigan 2017 5 Isaiah McKenzie 172 WR 2017 0 0 0 0 5 1 4 0 1 0 0 Georgia 2017 6 De'Angelo Henderson 203 RB 2017 0 0 0 0 3 1 1 0 Coastal Carolina 2017 7 Chad Kelly 253 QB 0 0 0 Mississippi Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2016 1 Paxton Lynch 26 QB 2016 0 0 0 1 3 49 83 497 2 1 11 25 0 Memphis 2016 2 Adam Gotsis 63 DT 2017 0 0 1 2 21 1.0 Georgia Tech 2016 3 Justin Simmons 98 FS 2017 0 0 1 2 18 3 1.0 Boston Col. 2016 4 Devontae Booker 136 RB 2017 0 0 0 5 18 178 628 4 35 343 1 Utah 2016 5 Connor McGovern 144 G 2017 0 0 0 0 5 Missouri 2016 6 Andy Janovich 176 FB 2017 0 0 0 1 16 5 35 1 5 44 0 Nebraska 2016 6 Will Parks 219 S 2017 0 0 0 1 21 1 Arizona 2016 7 Riley Dixon 228 P 2017 0 0 2 2 21 1 1 16 0 0 Syracuse Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2015 1 Shane Ray 23 DE 2016 0 0 1 8 30 12.0 Missouri 2015 2 Ty Sambrailo 59 T 2017 0 0 0 3 18 Colorado St. 2015 3 Jeff Heuerman 92 TE 2017 0 0 0 1 17 13 200 1 Ohio St. 2015 4 Max Garcia 133 C 2017 0 0 2 9 36 Florida 2015 5 Lorenzo Doss 164 CB 2017 0 0 0 0 14 Tulane 2015 6 Darius Kilgo 203 NT 2016 0 0 0 2 18 Maryland 2015 7 Trevor Siemian 250 QB 2017 0 0 2 9 20 397 662 4665 26 16 48 111 1 Northwestern 2015 7 Taurean Nixon 251 DB 2016 0 0 0 0 2 Tulane 2015 7 Josh Furman 252 DB 0 0 0 Oklahoma St. Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2014 1 Bradley Roby 31 DB 2017 0 0 0 8 53 6 2.0 Ohio St. 2014 2 Cody Latimer 56 WR 2017 0 0 0 1 37 2 1 0 18 180 1 Indiana 2014 3 Michael Schofield 95 OL 2017 0 0 2 13 35 Michigan 2014 5 Lamin Barrow 156 LB 2015 0 0 0 2 32 LSU 2014 6 Matt Paradis 207 OL 2017 0 0 3 12 37 Boise St. 2014 7 Corey Nelson 242 LB 2017 0 0 0 6 53 1.0 Oklahoma Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2013 1 Sylvester Williams 28 DT 2017 0 0 4 23 65 5.5 North Carolina 2013 2 Montee Ball 58 RB 2014 0 0 0 8 21 175 731 5 29 207 0 Wisconsin 2013 3 Kayvon Webster 90 DB 2017 0 0 1 5 58 1 South Florida 2013 5 Quanterus Smith 146 DE 2014 0 0 0 1 15 West. Kentucky 2013 5 Tavarres King 161 WR 2017 0 0 0 0 10 5 70 0 Georgia 2013 6 Vinston Painter 173 G 2017 0 0 0 0 9 Virginia Tech 2013 7 Zac Dysert 234 QB 0 0 0 Miami (OH) Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2012 2 Derek Wolfe 36 DT 2017 0 0 6 32 74 23.5 Cincinnati 2012 2 Brock Osweiler 57 QB 2017 0 0 1 10 37 490 819 5101 26 22 71 180 3 1 -14 0 Arizona St. 2012 3 Ronnie Hillman 67 RB 2016 0 0 1 17 56 494 1976 12 74 524 1 San Diego St. 2012 4 Omar Bolden 101 DB 2015 0 0 0 5 56 Arizona St. 2012 4 Philip Blake 108 OL 2012 0 0 0 0 Baylor 2012 5 Malik Jackson 137 DT 2017 0 0 3 24 84 22.5 Tennessee 2012 6 Danny Trevathan 188 LB 2017 0 0 4 24 64 5 5.0 Kentucky Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2011 1 Von Miller 2 LB 2017 3 5 7 72 93 1 78.5 Texas A&M 2011 2 Rahim Moore 45 DB 2015 0 0 3 20 64 9 1.0 UCLA 2011 2 Orlando Franklin 46 T 2016 0 0 6 40 89 Miami (FL) 2011 3 Nate Irving 67 LB 2015 0 0 1 9 62 3.0 North Carolina St. 2011 4 Quinton Carter 108 DB 2014 0 0 1 5 30 2.0 Oklahoma 2011 4 Julius Thomas 129 TE 2017 0 2 4 18 62 197 2126 33 Portland St. 2011 6 Mike Mohamed 189 LB 2015 0 0 0 4 26 1 California 2011 7 Virgil Green 204 TE 2017 0 0 3 5 89 2 3 0 64 713 4 Nevada 2011 7 Jeremy Beal 247 DL 2012 0 0 0 0 Oklahoma I think we can agree that John's area of expertise is QB and maybe receivers. DL? Not so much... nor LBs or OL. TEs and DBs... maybe some.
Noteworthy is John's drafting of a QB in 5 of his 6 years. And of those he's picked he's done better on Day 3 (Dysert, Siemian, Kelly) than he has Days 1 and 2 (Osweiler, Lynch).
Overall to my eye after some good early years, the quality of his drafts seem to be tapering off. The areas they seem to fare the best in the draft? Looks like the DL followed by the OL.
So how has Denver contended during his time including their most recent SB win? FA... P. Manning, Demarcus Ware and Aquib Talib were all big name "gets" that helped propel them. FA is the place where franchises "on the verge" go to add those last couple pieces to make that last push to the Lombardi. What it can't do is sustain a team's excellence... at least not if you continually shop at the top of the FA market.
Elway might be a great Exec... he definitely seems to be a helluva salesman which is a big part of FA recruiting. In another year or two we'll see where Denver is and how good he is as "the Decider".
What he is not... what P. Manning is not... is some kind of omniscient, SuperScout, which best I can tell is what the P. Manning crowd is expecting. They may as well be wishing for the Toothfairy.
Hey... I love snark!
Elway joined the Broncos FO as Executive VP in 2011. The then GM stayed on thru that draft season before leaving at which time Elway assumed the GM role. Let's look at his track record...
First his drafts...
This is a great post because it just shows how people's scouting/drafting skills get framed so differently based on a bunch of other things.
I think if you look at the last 7 drafts of just about every other team in the league they'd all look about the same. A few hits and a lot more "misses". The other thing that stands out is Elway, known as a brilliant GM, won a superbowl in his FIFTH year. You could argue the only reason he lasted 5 years is he got a couple years of late prime Peyton Manning before piecing together a defense good enough to carry them to a championship. He had TIME to build a team.
To me those drafts look like one game changing Superstar on Defense (who most people would've picked), a few really good impact players, and some decent role players.
We are 2 drafts into this regime and people already think these guys suck at drafting. It's just crazy. We have an insane amount of draft capital and cap space and have a superstar in Garrett and a bunch of other young players with potential (and of course they won't all pan out but that's the way it goes!). Everyone swings and misses but we have a lot more swings to take going forward and that's a really good thing
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BINGO! and not just cause you largely agree with me... although it doesn't hurt.
Picks are chances to hit. The more picks you have, the more chances you have. We've had a lot of chances in two years... and we still have a lot... and that ain't bad.
Our track record?
- I'm already on record as saying we punted a bit in 2016. Did not fully know the team... Took our new process out of the garage for its shake down cruise (mixed metaphor intended)... So we massaged our picks sending a couple out for down and out and up moves, and then threw a net at a school of WRs in hopes of coming up seven (also intended). Not looking good there, but also landed a pair of Coleman's, DE's, LB, S and OG/OT... all contributing, if not starring, with further potential or quality backup depth. Overall we got descent larks for our haul.
- 2017? Fewer picks... more dealing, but up this time as well nabbing starters and players-in-training (PITs??? Need to work on that acromyn...). And we got even better marks.
Stay tuned...
PS: Plus this FO landed Collins and McCourty and Zeitler and Taylor and Coley... and extended Bito.
Tretter and Britt? Pick away at that bone... I like our average.
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