So if Jackson is gone...
-
Meanwhile back at the OP...
Love a string of rhetorical questions... also love answering them.
I don't think two coaches removed from Chud that commitment is a serious issue. Commitment in the form of a fully guaranteed contract is commitment enough for most candidates... even Browns candidates.
of course if you are a sought-after coach and your choices are among three or four teams and all but one you could trust to give you enough time to implement your program?
Mishandling "stuff"... Also a non-factor IMO. First, there's a significant lack of evidence. Second, any HC knows there's a business side to every franchise.
sure they do. Of course if I was a coach oh, and I had other options, I might shy away from the team who is going to spend the league minimum. Wouldn't you?
"Lack of input", a/k/a "control"... every HC wants it. Most HC's don't get it. Most that do get it, eff it up.
lack of input? Do you think being forced to play Johnny Manziel put the nail in Mike Pettine's coffin? You think we'd be better or worse if they haven't jettisoned as many average Veterans as they did? I understand the plan but it's like being a contestant on Hell's Kitchen and you're given five bags of seeds and it's expected of you to make a loaf of bread in 2 hours. Hello smelly old helmet how's my little darling today
I said a couple days ago that so long as he holds, as in does not lose, the locker room, then Hue should be safe. To do so even while going 2-30 over two seasons would be a monumental feat... not accomplishment... feat. It would be testimony that the players believe in what I have been seeing/preaching/clinging to... that there is progress, if not success, but that success is coming.
it might. Don't know exactly what the evidence would be going 2 + 30.
WSS
Meanwhile back at the OP...
Love a string of rhetorical questions... also love answering them.
I don't think two coaches removed from Chud that commitment is a serious issue. Commitment in the form of a fully guaranteed contract is commitment enough for most candidates... even Browns candidates.
1.) of course if you are a sought-after coach and your choices are among three or four teams and all but one you could trust to give you enough time to implement your program?
Mishandling "stuff"... Also a non-factor IMO. First, there's a significant lack of evidence. Second, any HC knows there's a business side to every franchise.
2.) sure they do. Of course if I was a coach oh, and I had other options, I might shy away from the team who is going to spend the league minimum. Wouldn't you?
"Lack of input", a/k/a "control"... every HC wants it. Most HC's don't get it. Most that do get it, eff it up.
3.) lack of input? Do you think being forced to play Johnny Manziel put the nail in Mike Pettine's coffin? You think we'd be better or worse if they haven't jettisoned as many average Veterans as they did? I understand the plan but it's like being a contestant on Hell's Kitchen and you're given five bags of seeds and it's expected of you to make a loaf of bread in 2 hours. Hello smelly old helmet how's my little darling today
I said a couple days ago that so long as he holds, as in does not lose, the locker room, then Hue should be safe. To do so even while going 2-30 over two seasons would be a monumental feat... not accomplishment... feat. It would be testimony that the players believe in what I have been seeing/preaching/clinging to... that there is progress, if not success, but that success is coming.
4.) it might. Don't know exactly what the evidence would be going 2 + 30.
- Are all the teams offering me the same total package money?
- No... not a team who is clearly dedicated to spending the minimum... but that's not us. If you think it is, then I have two syllables for you... Zeit-ler. Our spend is right where it should be right now. I would definitely not go to a team who has no idea how to manage the cap... Would you?
- First, Manziel, who I do not know Pet was forced to pay by anything other than the regression and/or injury of his starter, is from a time preceding this FO... so he is not germane. Second... what kind of "seeds"... IIRC "grain" is ground seeds... so if I have a grinder I can whip you up a loaf of Irish soda bread inside of 1.5 hours and take a 1/2 hour nap...
- Same evidence there was at the end of Chud's HC "career"... lack of hustle on field, etc... Then there's always "hanging around the players".... a/k/a "Management by walking around"... best technique there is for keeping the pulse of any organization.
Stick with me... you'll have an MBA in no time...
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Meanwhile back at the OP...
Love a string of rhetorical questions... also love answering them.
I don't think two coaches removed from Chud that commitment is a serious issue. Commitment in the form of a fully guaranteed contract is commitment enough for most candidates... even Browns candidates.
1.) of course if you are a sought-after coach and your choices are among three or four teams and all but one you could trust to give you enough time to implement your program?
Mishandling "stuff"... Also a non-factor IMO. First, there's a significant lack of evidence. Second, any HC knows there's a business side to every franchise.
2.) sure they do. Of course if I was a coach oh, and I had other options, I might shy away from the team who is going to spend the league minimum. Wouldn't you?
"Lack of input", a/k/a "control"... every HC wants it. Most HC's don't get it. Most that do get it, eff it up.
3.) lack of input? Do you think being forced to play Johnny Manziel put the nail in Mike Pettine's coffin? You think we'd be better or worse if they haven't jettisoned as many average Veterans as they did? I understand the plan but it's like being a contestant on Hell's Kitchen and you're given five bags of seeds and it's expected of you to make a loaf of bread in 2 hours. Hello smelly old helmet how's my little darling today
I said a couple days ago that so long as he holds, as in does not lose, the locker room, then Hue should be safe. To do so even while going 2-30 over two seasons would be a monumental feat... not accomplishment... feat. It would be testimony that the players believe in what I have been seeing/preaching/clinging to... that there is progress, if not success, but that success is coming.
4.) it might. Don't know exactly what the evidence would be going 2 + 30.
- Are all the teams offering me the same total package money?
- No... not a team who is clearly dedicated to spending the minimum... but that's not us. If you think it is, then I have two syllables for you... Zeit-ler. Our spend is right where it should be right now. I would definitely not go to a team who has no idea how to manage the cap... Would you?
- First, Manziel, who I do not know Pet was forced to pay by anything other than the regression and/or injury of his starter, is from a time preceding this FO... so he is not germane. Second... what kind of "seeds"... IIRC "grain" is ground seeds... so if I have a grinder I can whip you up a loaf of Irish soda bread inside of 1.5 hours and take a 1/2 hour nap...
- Same evidence there was at the end of Chud's HC "career"... lack of hustle on field, etc... Then there's always "hanging around the players".... a/k/a "Management by walking around"... best technique there is for keeping the pulse of any organization.
Stick with me... you'll have an MBA in no time...
- Are all the teams offering me the same total package money?
- no idea. I'm assuming it's not just the money.
- No... not a team who is clearly dedicated to spending the minimum... but that's not us. If you think it is, then I have two syllables for you... Zeit-ler. Our spend is right where it should be right now. I would definitely not go to a team who has no idea how to manage the cap... Would you?
- I don't necessarily think we are under spending. I think we are over cutting of average players who could contribute.
- First, Manziel, who I do not know Pet was forced to pay by anything other than the regression and/or injury of his starter, is from a time preceding this FO... so he is not germane. Second... what kind of "seeds"... IIRC "grain" is ground seeds... so if I have a grinder I can whip you up a loaf of Irish soda bread inside of 1.5 hours and take a 1/2 hour nap...
- and therein lies the rub of discussing this shjt we really don't know who was forced on who and what coach didn't like working with what general manager. I get the feeling he hated Johnny, possibly for good enough reason, and decided to run the team like his old man did. I'll teach that punk a lesson!
- Same evidence there was at the end of Chud's HC "career"... lack of hustle on field, etc... Then there's always "hanging around the players".... a/k/a "Management by walking around"... best technique there is for keeping the pulse of any organization.
- hard to say. People get frustrated. I remember hearing and believing stories about Belichick's last year went art was forcing him to bench and starts different players to keep them from hitting a contract salary checkpoint. Not that that's what I think is happening here but just saying there are reasons.
Stick with me... you'll have an MBA in no time...
but every bit of negativity will be washed away with a little bit of success and the second portion of the season.
WSS
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If the head coach position of the Cleveland Browns were to open up, there would be plenty of coaches banging down their doors to take it, as it's 1 of only 32 jobs on the planet like it.
All great coaches weren't great coaches until they became great coaches.....
If the head coach position of the Cleveland Browns were to open up, there would be plenty of coaches banging down their doors to take it, as it's 1 of only 32 jobs on the planet like it.
All great coaches weren't great coaches until they became great coaches.....
I'm not sure this is true. Chudzinski and Pettine were hired as the Browns head coach while eliciting little to no interest from any other team looking to fill their HC position. I don't think that's a coincidence.
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This point really means nothing.
Disagree... but there is an underlying issue: Are there 32 great NFL HC's "out there" at any one time?
History, pretty much says, "No."
Outside of Da Bungles, no coach in the history of the NFL is going to get 5 years to turn things around.....
Hold on there, h... there are more than you think. Since the beginning of the common draft the following HCs had 5-year stints in failed turnaround efforts...
- Alex Webster (NYG)
- John Ralston (DNV)
- Vince Tobin (AZ)
- Jim Schwartz (DET)
A couple of the above sniffed "turnaround", but could not sustain it. But there are others, e.g., Jason Garrett, who pulled their a$$es out of the fire in their 5th year.
While we like to think of the Bagels as staying a long time with their HCs, their list doesn't really support that their patience includes abject failures.
# Name Term Regular season Playoffs Awards GC W L T Win% GC W L 1 Paul Brown † 1968–1975 112 55 56 1 .495 3 0 3 UPI NFL Coach of the Year (1969, 1970) 2 Bill Johnson* 1976–1978 33 18 15 0 .545 – – – 3 Homer Rice* 1978–1979 27 8 19 0 .296 – – – 4 Forrest Gregg ‡ 1980–1983 57 32 25 0 .561 4 2 2 UPI NFL Coach of the Year (1981) 5 Sam Wyche 1984–1991 121 61 66 0 .480 5 3 2 6 Dave Shula* 1992–1996 71 19 52 0 .268 – – – 7 Bruce Coslet 1996–2000 60 21 39 0 .350 – – – 8 finger LeBeau ‡ 2000–2002 45 12 33 0 .267 – – – 9 Marvin Lewis* 2003–present 224 118 103 3 .533 7 0 7 AP NFL Coach of the Year (2009) -
Let me clarify what I mean by respect. Hue is a gentleman and no doubt a hard worker. He has made a career in a field that few can survive in. He even has my respect in that regard. I am referring more to the many players who are dropping footballs, missing tackles, making penalties, etc. I believe that is a sign of disrespect. I just don't think that the majority of players revere this guy.
I am not sure how you make the leap from players failing to execute to a lack of respect for the coach. I mean, I do think the team lacks discipline, certainly. and that is coaching. Are you saying that a lack of discipline equals a lack of respect for the coach? I mean, maybe, in a weird way.....but it is a long twisted leap.
I am not sure how you make the leap from players failing to execute to a lack of respect for the coach. I mean, I do think the team lacks discipline, certainly. and that is coaching. Are you saying that a lack of discipline equals a lack of respect for the coach? I mean, maybe, in a weird way.....but it is a long twisted leap.
NO, it isn't twisted at all man. Soldiers kill for their generals. This is a staple of team performance. You don't let your team, you fans your coach down. It is absolutely a lack of respect.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
Who would ever expect a team full of rookies and second year players to make a ton of mental mistakes?
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Who would ever expect a team full of rookies and second year players to make a ton of mental mistakes?
Who would ever expect a team full of rookies and second year players to make a ton of mental mistakes?
Not acceptable, not an applicable apology. Your insinuation is total nonsense.
- What is different about catching a football in the NFL versus college, HS and peepee football?
- What is different about not jumping offside in the NFL versus college, HS and peepee football?
- What is different about not holding in the NFL versus college, HS and peepee football?
- What is different about pass interference or a DB turning to look for the ball in the NFL versus college, HS and peepee football?
On an on it goes. I am not talking about Kizer misreading coverage type mistakes. Those are not the problems. This team is so weak fundamentally that it is shameful. Any NFL coach worth his keep would have ironed out 90% of this BS in his first preseason. These guys are not suddenly going to become disciplined in year three.
Some people believe that practice makes perfect, but it doesn't, PERFECT practice makes perfect. Conversely, when one continually repeats bad behavior, the mind and the body assimilate that behavior and it becomes part of the person's psyche. This business of poo-pooing a lack of discipline under the guise of inexperience is no good. young players or not, they lack discipline, and being young has nothing to do with it.
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Let's say the Cleveland Browns decide to can Hue Jackson. As I recall the last couple of times people here were yip yip tipping that no coach of worth would ever want to come to Cleveland.
Then the Cleveland Browns landed the consensus most sought-after coach in the league.
So if he gets the boot what do you suppose the reason would be that other coaches wouldn't want to come here? The lack of commitment beyond two years? The mishandling of player acquisition and dismissal? Lack of input?
WSS
Then the Cleveland Browns landed the consensus most sought-after coach in the league.
To me, at least, I was surprised that Jackson signed so quickly.
Maybe it was because his family did not have to move. However, why would the 'consensus most sought-after coach in the league' sign with the Browns without - even - interviewing with another team. Maybe his most-sought-after-status was a figment of the fan's imagination.
He played hard ball in getting rid of Johnny Football. Probably a good thing. However, he seems to play 'Mr. Softie' with everybody else.
He is considered - at least by some - to be a developer of QBs. Maybe he got lucky in Cincy. Besides Dalton (I will give him the benefit of the doubt), who has Jackson 'developed'?
Personally, I don't see how he gets another year.
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IMO, Hue is gone within hours of the final game, but the front office stays and will be around for the next draft
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Keep Hue Jackson until it's clear his skill set is what is holding the team back.
There is a reason that the 2 coaches Haslam has hired are Pettine & Jackson.
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Keep Hue Jackson until it's clear his skill set is what is holding the team back.
There is a reason that the 2 coaches Haslam has hired are Pettine & Jackson.
Keep Hue Jackson until it's clear his skill set is what is holding the team back.
There is a reason that the 2 coaches Haslam has hired are Pettine & Jackson.
I see a choker under pressure. Sorry that's what it looks like.
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Hue is toast. I suspect Sashi to be given the title of full President and Sashi old job will be merged with Berry to create the Vice President/GM job. Then Sashi/GM will hire new head coach without Haslam playing a big role in it.
The HC will be weakened considerably in future decision making.
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Hue is toast. I suspect Sashi to be given the title of full President and Sashi old job will be merged with Berry to create the Vice President/GM job. Then Sashi/GM will hire new head coach without Haslam playing a big role in it.
The HC will be weakened considerably in future decision making.
Hue is toast. I suspect Sashi to be given the title of full President and Sashi old job will be merged with Berry to create the Vice President/GM job. Then Sashi/GM will hire new head coach without Haslam playing a big role in it.
The HC will be weakened considerably in future decision making.
I think you're full of s h i t.
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Keep Hue Jackson until it's clear his skill set is what is holding the team back.
There is a reason that the 2 coaches Haslam has hired are Pettine & Jackson.
I see a choker under pressure. Sorry that's what it looks like.
I see a choker under pressure. Sorry that's what it looks like.
What is Jackson's record in Cleveland?
What pressure? What choke?
One could argue that Marty Schottenheimer was a 'choker under pressure' but he coached BIG games. Jackson hasn't been in a big game since???????????????????????
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I see a choker under pressure. Sorry that's what it looks like.
What is Jackson's record in Cleveland?
What pressure? What choke?
One could argue that Marty Schottenheimer was a 'choker under pressure' but he coached BIG games. Jackson hasn't been in a big game since???????????????????????
What is Jackson's record in Cleveland?
What pressure? What choke?
One could argue that Marty Schottenheimer was a 'choker under pressure' but he was in BIG games. Jackson hasn't been in a big game since???????????????????????
The pressure to win now. He's caving.
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give hue a 3rd year marching tune from you assholes who couldn't wait to get of mangini or pettine after their 2nd.
hyp-o-friggin-criti-fuggin-cal 2 faced douchebags.
you deserve this bag of lit dog Sheet on your porch....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
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Then the Cleveland Browns landed the consensus most sought-after coach in the league.
To me, at least, I was surprised that Jackson signed so quickly.
Maybe it was because his family did not have to move. However, why would the 'consensus most sought-after coach in the league' sign with the Browns without - even - interviewing with another team. Maybe his most-sought-after-status was a figment of the fan's imagination.
He played hard ball in getting rid of Johnny Football. Probably a good thing. However, he seems to play 'Mr. Softie' with everybody else.
He is considered - at least by some - to be a developer of QBs. Maybe he got lucky in Cincy. Besides Dalton (I will give him the benefit of the doubt), who has Jackson 'developed'?
Personally, I don't see how he gets another year.
He is considered - at least by some - to be a developer of QBs. Maybe he got lucky in Cincy. Besides Dalton (I will give him the benefit of the doubt), who has Jackson 'developed'?
In order?
- 1995 ASU Jake Plummer
- 1996 Cal Pat Barnes
- 1997 USC John Fox
- 2000 USC Carson Palmer/Matt Cassel
- 2008/09 BLT's Flacco
- 2014/15 CIN's Dalton
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
He is considered - at least by some - to be a developer of QBs. Maybe he got lucky in Cincy. Besides Dalton (I will give him the benefit of the doubt), who has Jackson 'developed'?
In order?
- 1995 ASU Jake Plummer
- 1996 Cal Pat Barnes
- 1997 USC John Fox
- 2000 USC Carson Palmer/Matt Cassel
- 2008/09 BLT's Flacco
- 2014/15 CIN's Dalton
-
-
give hue a 3rd year marching tune from you assholes who couldn't wait to get of mangini or pettine after their 2nd.
hyp-o-friggin-criti-fuggin-cal 2 faced douchebags.
you deserve this bag of lit dog Sheet on your porch....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
give hue a 3rd year marching tune from you assholes who couldn't wait to get of mangini or pettine after their 2nd.
hyp-o-friggin-criti-fuggin-cal 2 faced douchebags.
you deserve this bag of lit dog Sheet on your porch....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Dude he's black.
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