Our defense is #6 in rushing and #9 overall.
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with that being said, if we could only sustain drives and score TD's then we would look like a real team.
with that being said, if we could only sustain drives
Well that's the very crux of it right? We run 3 -6 plays from scrimmage, punt and the D is back out there working time and a half. That's bass ackwards.
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Do u guys remember a few years ago when hoyer was scoring 20+ points but we were still losing games cause other teams were scoring 30+? Dont tell me u now dint give a Sheet about defense. Our offense is horrendous. Not even avg. An avg offense would have allowed this def to at least win a few games.
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This thread bar the opening post makes me sad, 0 8 is all that matters, I dont care about the defense cos of the offense. IF Haslam doesnt blow this whole thing up I want an apology from most of you when this TEAM is very good, the defense is on the way there, the O line is there. The QB will come, and when it does, make sure you admit defeat
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Its amazing how few people are willing to give the team "some" credit. I guarantee if the roles were reversed and our offense was top 10 but the defense was among the worst and we were still 1-7 or most likely still 0-8.....u guys would be calling for coffee boys head.
I for one am tickled pink that a guy can come in and turn this group of mostly avg players into a serviceable nfl defense. No one can argue with me that aside from danny, most of our d line would struggle to make the starting lineups of most of the teams in the NFL save perhaps the very bottom 3-4 defensive teams.
I think williams decided that this year, this team is gonna stop the run period. He realizes asking the front guys to rush the passer AND stop the run is too next level so we'll concentrate on keeping OL off the LB'ers and to that end the team has some real talent there. Im starting to warm on kirksey and schobert and collins is as advertised, one of the best in the NFL hands down.
Guys please let this be built properly. Let this def stew for years. Next season will be year 2 and we'll get a healthy garrett back so we'll see finally who he is and we might pick up a FA DE in the offseason who knows. We've seen what garrett is capable of if he can stay on the field. He hasnt played at greater that 80/85% in any of his games and he quickly showed he's head and shoulders above everyone else in the pass rushing skillset. Doublevthe sacks in less than half the games of the next closest guy. If a vet like ansah can be brought here holy fukking sht with that LB'ing corp behind that front 4.
And i dont want to forget the secondary completely. Mccourty and calhoun are making plays i havent seen from a browns secondary in like 10 years. These guys also have no fear going up against the run game. How long have we been frustrated by DB's that dive for cover like a grenade was tossed at the sight of a RB coming at them?
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I'd give the defense a lot of credit if i didn't in person see them get gashed for a million first half points against Cincy. If I didn't see them gashed for 2 million points against Indy and also see them gashed for a million points against Houston. That's 3 shitty performances in the first half out of 8 games. Getting your ass handed to you in the first half of 3 games out of 8 isn't a serviceable defense.
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I'd give the defense a lot of credit if i didn't in person see them get gashed for a million first half points against Cincy. If I didn't see them gashed for 2 million points against Indy and also see them gashed for a million points against Houston. That's 3 shitty performances in the first half out of 8 games. Getting your ass handed to you in the first half of 3 games out of 8 isn't a serviceable defense.
I'd give the defense a lot of credit if i didn't in person see them get gashed for a million first half points against Cincy. If I didn't see them gashed for 2 million points against Indy and also see them gashed for a million points against Houston. That's 3 shitty performances in the first half out of 8 games. Getting your butt handed to you in the first half of 3 games out of 8 isn't a serviceable defense.
Pass defense. We're 18th for a reason. Being overall a top 10 defense tho is actually a very serviceable defense wtf are u talking about? If this were 5 years into the rebuild perhaps, but being one fukking year in and we're 6th in stopping the run and 9th overall? Exactly how long have u been a browns fan?
Norhing was more frustrating to me than seeing a pretty damn good offense a few years ago that got torp'd by an ateocious defense that lost games when our offense score 28-30 pts. We missed out on the playoffs that year cause our defense was pure sht. So stop it with this omg our defense gave up a bunch of points in a few games when they were on the field constantly and were the recipients of bad field position fumbles and int's. They're not gonna be the ole 85 bears the first year.
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I'd give the defense a lot of credit if i didn't in person see them get gashed for a million first half points against Cincy. If I didn't see them gashed for 2 million points against Indy and also see them gashed for a million points against Houston. That's 3 shitty performances in the first half out of 8 games. Getting your butt handed to you in the first half of 3 games out of 8 isn't a serviceable defense.
Pass defense. We're 18th for a reason. Being overall a top 10 defense tho is actually a very serviceable defense wtf are u talking about? If this were 5 years into the rebuild perhaps, but being one fukking year in and we're 6th in stopping the run and 9th overall? Exactly how long have u been a browns fan?
Norhing was more frustrating to me than seeing a pretty damn good offense a few years ago that got torp'd by an ateocious defense that lost games when our offense score 28-30 pts. We missed out on the playoffs that year cause our defense was pure sht. So stop it with this omg our defense gave up a bunch of points in a few games when they were on the field constantly and were the recipients of bad field position fumbles and int's. They're not gonna be the ole 85 bears the first year.
So stop it with this omg our defense gave up a bunch of points in a few games when they were on the field constantly and were the recipients of bad field position fumbles and int's. They're not gonna be the ole 85 bears the first year.
I'm talking about the first half in games in which they were completely destroyed. If they're tired in the first half of games they need to all be released and find some guys who aren't pussies.
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they are tough. and 0-8. and gassed by the middle of the 3rd.
once an opposing rb makes it past the first flank of defense he might as well just run it 56 yards for a td. same with wrs. trent green talking about how nassib is 'flying all over the field today' but after the first quarter these big picks dissolved like salt in the rain.
yep, von miller is great too. so is jj watt and supposedly myles garrett (who?).
don't mean S.H.I.T.
numbers guys that believe in rankings as something are as good as analytic FO personnel. they suck.
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Do u guys remember a few years ago when hoyer was scoring 20+ points but we were still losing games cause other teams were scoring 30+? Dont tell me u now dint give a Sheet about defense. Our offense is horrendous. Not even avg. An avg offense would have allowed this def to at least win a few games.
Do u guys remember a few years ago when hoyer was scoring 20+ points but we were still losing games cause other teams were scoring 30+?
Yeah. Wasn't exactly what we were looking for. But at least it was kind of exciting. And when our offense took the field we actually had 'some' confidence that they could make something happen. (the Hoyer/Benjamin pair have their jersey's in a display case in the HOF) - When our current offense takes the field...there isn't anyone here that can tell me they have the least bit of confidence that the offense can put a drive to a TD together.
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So stop it with this omg our defense gave up a bunch of points in a few games when they were on the field constantly and were the recipients of bad field position fumbles and int's. They're not gonna be the ole 85 bears the first year.
I'm talking about the first half in games in which they were completely destroyed. If they're tired in the first half of games they need to all be released and find some guys who aren't pussies.
I'm talking about the first half in games in which they were completely destroyed. If they're tired in the first half of games they need to all be released and find some guys who aren't pussies.
Yes i rem those games. They got torched in the passing game cause we got no pressure on the qb and we had some growing pains at safety. They're still trying to figure out this warning track scheme with the safety, williams had ibrahim doung it on sunday so it wasnt just a peppers thing.
So look, u know full well ive been salting our 2nd year DE's pressure production all year. So im not glossing over glaring deficiencies. Neither nassib, ogbah or orchard has gotten much real time pressure on qb's. Its only when a qb holds the ball too long, like kizer...that they've been able to spin off their blocker and fet near the qb.
We need pressure around the qb as he hits that back foot. Only garrett gave us a solid glimpse of that. Once we can consistently force the ball out early the coverage wil improve. Throws will be off timing just a hair and you'll start to see more bat downs and outright int's.
But building a defense that learns to stop the run with its eyes closed, like second nature, than slowly build up the pass rush while still retaining that run stop intuition....hey thats how juggernauts are built.
Remember the great pass rushing defenses the colts had when freeney and manning were in their prime? The DC was ron meeks and his philosophy there was we'll stop the run on the way to the qb. Not surprisingly the run def was awful and cost the colts an extra sb or two. They only got away with thatbphilosophy because manning was moon gaping opponents anoos's by halftime so teams couldnt afford to run, theyhad to pass to keep up. But all historically great defenses started as stone walls against the run. Bears, ravens, broncos etc
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The only ranking that matters 0-8
Blown out in the first half by Houston, Cincinatti and Indianapolis.
The only ranking that matters 0-8
Blown out in the first half by Houston, Cincinatti and Indianapolis.
You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
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You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
i get that as well....but what would be the solution in your opinion? just deal with another no win season? or make changes? who? for what?
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I sometimes have to vociferously remind myself that some of u are just random internet people and not a microcosm of the actual browns fan base. Cause if alot of u are indicative of the gen mood of the fanbase we might as well let the browns leave again and just firget about football alltogether.
If a top 10 defense isnt reason enough for sone of u to stick with this latest rebuild, than theres no hope. I get it, u want wins. Well the wins will come if we stfu and let Sheet get built. Frankly if i see a top 5 defense next year in all categories which is a distinct possibility if we get some secondary help and possibly another vet or two in the front 7....god dareus and danny would have been something else....but if we keep what we have and add just a few pieces this could be special. This could be the kibd of defense that sends roethlisberger into retirement.
I give a fuk about wins and losses if we have a def next year which knocks fools like roethlisberger the fuk out.
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You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
i get that as well....but what would be the solution in your opinion? just deal with another no win season? or make changes? who? for what?
i get that as well....but what would be the solution in your opinion? just deal with another no win season? or make changes? who? for what?
Evaluate after next season.
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I sometimes have to vociferously remind myself that some of u are just random internet people and not a microcosm of the actual browns fan base. Cause if alot of u are indicative of the gen mood of the fanbase we might as well let the browns leave again and just firget about football alltogether.
If a top 10 defense isnt reason enough for sone of u to stick with this latest rebuild, than theres no hope. I get it, u want wins. Well the wins will come if we stfu and let Sheet get built. Frankly if i see a top 5 defense next year in all categories which is a distinct possibility if we get some secondary help and possibly another vet or two in the front 7....god dareus and danny would have been something else....but if we keep what we have and add just a few pieces this could be special. This could be the kibd of defense that sends roethlisberger into retirement.
I give a fuk about wins and losses if we have a def next year which knocks fools like roethlisberger the fuk out.
I sometimes have to vociferously remind myself that some of u are just random internet people and not a microcosm of the actual browns fan base. Cause if alot of u are indicative of the gen mood of the fanbase we might as well let the browns leave again and just firget about football alltogether.
Unfortunately I think it is. I remember at the 2015 Browns Backers draft party everyone was pissed we got Shelton instead of some noname receiver, and most here at least wanted Shelton. So this board might actually be more intelligent than the general fanbase lol.
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Evaluate after next season.
?????
so no changes FO or staff-wise and ride another no win season next year as well, then at the end of THAT year (a lot of us don't have many years left) then make decisions?
like needing to get that molar pulled a year prior, now it's cracked in half and rotten. your dentist/oral surgeon looks at you with disgust because he told you THEN that this would happen NOW as he has to cut your jaw open, just giving you enough local anesthetic where you're not flying out of the chair but you are feeling every second of it with your hands clawed into the leather like a cat in a bathtub.
u felt this way about the holmgren experiment as well?
hmmmmmmmm.
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You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
I don't have any idea. But I"m not going to pump up the defense as being great when those games happened. I'm not even saying that we should get rid of Williams, I think he's got the defense on the right track. But I'm still not going to blow the defense as being great or even good when there have been at least 3 games where they were ass raped in the first half of games so that kinda puts the "they're tired" excuse to rest doesn't it?
Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
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You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
I don't have any idea. But I"m not going to pump up the defense as being great when those games happened. I'm not even saying that we should get rid of Williams, I think he's got the defense on the right track. But I'm still not going to blow the defense as being great or even good when there have been at least 3 games where they were ass raped in the first half of games so that kinda puts the "they're tired" excuse to rest doesn't it?
Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
I don't have any idea. But I"m not going to pump up the defense as being great when those games happened. I'm not even saying that we should get rid of Williams, I think he's got the defense on the right track. But I'm still not going to blow the defense as being great or even good when there have been at least 3 games where they were butt raped in the first half of games so that kinda puts the "they're tired" excuse to rest doesn't it?
Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
Listen, no ones lining up to line toss anybodys salad. I already stated they were weak on passing. But being #9 in overall defense when the new DC landed in clev 9 months ago isnt half bad and absolutely warrants not blowing this up again next year
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You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
I don't have any idea. But I"m not going to pump up the defense as being great when those games happened. I'm not even saying that we should get rid of Williams, I think he's got the defense on the right track. But I'm still not going to blow the defense as being great or even good when there have been at least 3 games where they were ass raped in the first half of games so that kinda puts the "they're tired" excuse to rest doesn't it?
Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
Not "probably", they are better than last year. U do remember how bad we were last year right?
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm
it might take u awhile to find the browns what with all the scrolling you'll have to do.
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