Our defense is #6 in rushing and #9 overall.
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they are tough. and 0-8. and gassed by the middle of the 3rd.
once an opposing rb makes it past the first flank of defense he might as well just run it 56 yards for a td. same with wrs. trent green talking about how nassib is 'flying all over the field today' but after the first quarter these big picks dissolved like salt in the rain.
yep, von miller is great too. so is jj watt and supposedly myles garrett (who?).
don't mean S.H.I.T.
numbers guys that believe in rankings as something are as good as analytic FO personnel. they suck.
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Do u guys remember a few years ago when hoyer was scoring 20+ points but we were still losing games cause other teams were scoring 30+? Dont tell me u now dint give a Sheet about defense. Our offense is horrendous. Not even avg. An avg offense would have allowed this def to at least win a few games.
Do u guys remember a few years ago when hoyer was scoring 20+ points but we were still losing games cause other teams were scoring 30+?
Yeah. Wasn't exactly what we were looking for. But at least it was kind of exciting. And when our offense took the field we actually had 'some' confidence that they could make something happen. (the Hoyer/Benjamin pair have their jersey's in a display case in the HOF) - When our current offense takes the field...there isn't anyone here that can tell me they have the least bit of confidence that the offense can put a drive to a TD together.
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So stop it with this omg our defense gave up a bunch of points in a few games when they were on the field constantly and were the recipients of bad field position fumbles and int's. They're not gonna be the ole 85 bears the first year.
I'm talking about the first half in games in which they were completely destroyed. If they're tired in the first half of games they need to all be released and find some guys who aren't pussies.
I'm talking about the first half in games in which they were completely destroyed. If they're tired in the first half of games they need to all be released and find some guys who aren't pussies.
Yes i rem those games. They got torched in the passing game cause we got no pressure on the qb and we had some growing pains at safety. They're still trying to figure out this warning track scheme with the safety, williams had ibrahim doung it on sunday so it wasnt just a peppers thing.
So look, u know full well ive been salting our 2nd year DE's pressure production all year. So im not glossing over glaring deficiencies. Neither nassib, ogbah or orchard has gotten much real time pressure on qb's. Its only when a qb holds the ball too long, like kizer...that they've been able to spin off their blocker and fet near the qb.
We need pressure around the qb as he hits that back foot. Only garrett gave us a solid glimpse of that. Once we can consistently force the ball out early the coverage wil improve. Throws will be off timing just a hair and you'll start to see more bat downs and outright int's.
But building a defense that learns to stop the run with its eyes closed, like second nature, than slowly build up the pass rush while still retaining that run stop intuition....hey thats how juggernauts are built.
Remember the great pass rushing defenses the colts had when freeney and manning were in their prime? The DC was ron meeks and his philosophy there was we'll stop the run on the way to the qb. Not surprisingly the run def was awful and cost the colts an extra sb or two. They only got away with thatbphilosophy because manning was moon gaping opponents anoos's by halftime so teams couldnt afford to run, theyhad to pass to keep up. But all historically great defenses started as stone walls against the run. Bears, ravens, broncos etc
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The only ranking that matters 0-8
Blown out in the first half by Houston, Cincinatti and Indianapolis.
The only ranking that matters 0-8
Blown out in the first half by Houston, Cincinatti and Indianapolis.
You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
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You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
i get that as well....but what would be the solution in your opinion? just deal with another no win season? or make changes? who? for what?
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I sometimes have to vociferously remind myself that some of u are just random internet people and not a microcosm of the actual browns fan base. Cause if alot of u are indicative of the gen mood of the fanbase we might as well let the browns leave again and just firget about football alltogether.
If a top 10 defense isnt reason enough for sone of u to stick with this latest rebuild, than theres no hope. I get it, u want wins. Well the wins will come if we stfu and let Sheet get built. Frankly if i see a top 5 defense next year in all categories which is a distinct possibility if we get some secondary help and possibly another vet or two in the front 7....god dareus and danny would have been something else....but if we keep what we have and add just a few pieces this could be special. This could be the kibd of defense that sends roethlisberger into retirement.
I give a fuk about wins and losses if we have a def next year which knocks fools like roethlisberger the fuk out.
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You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
i get that as well....but what would be the solution in your opinion? just deal with another no win season? or make changes? who? for what?
i get that as well....but what would be the solution in your opinion? just deal with another no win season? or make changes? who? for what?
Evaluate after next season.
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I sometimes have to vociferously remind myself that some of u are just random internet people and not a microcosm of the actual browns fan base. Cause if alot of u are indicative of the gen mood of the fanbase we might as well let the browns leave again and just firget about football alltogether.
If a top 10 defense isnt reason enough for sone of u to stick with this latest rebuild, than theres no hope. I get it, u want wins. Well the wins will come if we stfu and let Sheet get built. Frankly if i see a top 5 defense next year in all categories which is a distinct possibility if we get some secondary help and possibly another vet or two in the front 7....god dareus and danny would have been something else....but if we keep what we have and add just a few pieces this could be special. This could be the kibd of defense that sends roethlisberger into retirement.
I give a fuk about wins and losses if we have a def next year which knocks fools like roethlisberger the fuk out.
I sometimes have to vociferously remind myself that some of u are just random internet people and not a microcosm of the actual browns fan base. Cause if alot of u are indicative of the gen mood of the fanbase we might as well let the browns leave again and just firget about football alltogether.
Unfortunately I think it is. I remember at the 2015 Browns Backers draft party everyone was pissed we got Shelton instead of some noname receiver, and most here at least wanted Shelton. So this board might actually be more intelligent than the general fanbase lol.
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Evaluate after next season.
?????
so no changes FO or staff-wise and ride another no win season next year as well, then at the end of THAT year (a lot of us don't have many years left) then make decisions?
like needing to get that molar pulled a year prior, now it's cracked in half and rotten. your dentist/oral surgeon looks at you with disgust because he told you THEN that this would happen NOW as he has to cut your jaw open, just giving you enough local anesthetic where you're not flying out of the chair but you are feeling every second of it with your hands clawed into the leather like a cat in a bathtub.
u felt this way about the holmgren experiment as well?
hmmmmmmmm.
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You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
I don't have any idea. But I"m not going to pump up the defense as being great when those games happened. I'm not even saying that we should get rid of Williams, I think he's got the defense on the right track. But I'm still not going to blow the defense as being great or even good when there have been at least 3 games where they were ass raped in the first half of games so that kinda puts the "they're tired" excuse to rest doesn't it?
Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
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You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
I don't have any idea. But I"m not going to pump up the defense as being great when those games happened. I'm not even saying that we should get rid of Williams, I think he's got the defense on the right track. But I'm still not going to blow the defense as being great or even good when there have been at least 3 games where they were ass raped in the first half of games so that kinda puts the "they're tired" excuse to rest doesn't it?
Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
I don't have any idea. But I"m not going to pump up the defense as being great when those games happened. I'm not even saying that we should get rid of Williams, I think he's got the defense on the right track. But I'm still not going to blow the defense as being great or even good when there have been at least 3 games where they were butt raped in the first half of games so that kinda puts the "they're tired" excuse to rest doesn't it?
Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
Listen, no ones lining up to line toss anybodys salad. I already stated they were weak on passing. But being #9 in overall defense when the new DC landed in clev 9 months ago isnt half bad and absolutely warrants not blowing this up again next year
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You have to have an idea of how to fix that. "fire everyone" does not count.
I don't have any idea. But I"m not going to pump up the defense as being great when those games happened. I'm not even saying that we should get rid of Williams, I think he's got the defense on the right track. But I'm still not going to blow the defense as being great or even good when there have been at least 3 games where they were ass raped in the first half of games so that kinda puts the "they're tired" excuse to rest doesn't it?
Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
Not "probably", they are better than last year. U do remember how bad we were last year right?
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm
it might take u awhile to find the browns what with all the scrolling you'll have to do.
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Are they better than last year, sure...probably but there's still a long way to go.
Not "probably", they are better than last year. U do remember how bad we were last year right?
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm
it might take u awhile to find the browns what with all the scrolling you'll have to do.
Not "probably", they are better than last year. U do remember how bad we were last year right?
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm
it might take u awhile to find the browns what with all the scrolling you'll have to do.
They're still 0-8 so you can post all the stats you want. zero for 8 is still zero for 8.
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So we've improved a couple spots in passing defense and essentially made a quantum leap in rush defense. 31st to 6th.......someone ought to getbtheir salads tossed for that
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People who want to point fingers and whine simply ignore facts ---- and when facts are presented, they avoid the facts even harder. Overhauling an organization is not easy.. despite the many assertions that "Just hire a football guy!" would naturally immediately be followed by endless riches. No doubt that's the same bunch who assert "Just draft playmakers!" yields infinite super bowls.
Funny how the two people on this forum who have executed organizational change at the C-suite level [Tour and myself] realize that it's a long tough slog with many factors and milestones along the way.
If you have no boots-on-the-ground knowledge of something, the smart way to approach that thing is to ask someone who has already done it... before formulating your own opinion.
I think achieving results happens to demonstrate that "The Process" is working. Not complete by any stretch, but we're better now than we were last season. And next season there's no reason to assume we won't be better than we are this season.
Just to be clear, Browns are #1 in Yards Given Up Per Rushing Attempt [total rushing yards / number of rushing plays].. I don't know what metric is being discussed when saying "we're #6" -- what is the numerator and denominator of that metric?
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Not "probably", they are better than last year. U do remember how bad we were last year right?
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm
it might take u awhile to find the browns what with all the scrolling you'll have to do.
They're still 0-8 so you can post all the stats you want. zero for 8 is still zero for 8.
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Well thank god we have these great stats to fall back on despite winning a game.
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People who want to point fingers and whine simply ignore facts ---- and when facts are presented, they avoid the facts even harder. Overhauling an organization is not easy.. despite the many assertions that "Just hire a football guy!" would naturally immediately be followed by endless riches. No doubt that's the same bunch who assert "Just draft playmakers!" yields infinite super bowls.
Funny how the two people on this forum who have executed organizational change at the C-suite level [Tour and myself] realize that it's a long tough slog with many factors and milestones along the way.
If you have no boots-on-the-ground knowledge of something, the smart way to approach that thing is to ask someone who has already done it... before formulating your own opinion.
I think achieving results happens to demonstrate that "The Process" is working. Not complete by any stretch, but we're better now than we were last season. And next season there's no reason to assume we won't be better than we are this season.
Just to be clear, Browns are #1 in Yards Given Up Per Rushing Attempt [total rushing yards / number of rushing plays].. I don't know what metric is being discussed when saying "we're #6" -- what is the numerator and denominator of that metric?
People who want to point fingers and whine simply ignore facts ---- and when facts are presented, they avoid the facts even harder. Overhauling an organization is not easy.. despite the many assertions that "Just hire a football guy!" is immediately followed by endless riches.
Funny how the two people on this forum who have executed organizational change at the C-suite level [Tour and myself] realize that it's a long tough slog with many factors and milestones along the way.
If you have no boots-on-the-ground knowledge of something, the smart way to approach that thing is to ask someone who has already done it... before formulating your own opinion.
I think achieving results happens to demonstrate that "The Process" is working. Not complete by any stretch, but we're better now than we were last season.
Just to be clear, Browns are #1 in Yards Given Up Per Rushing Attempt [total rushing yards / number of rushing plays].. I don't know what metric is being discussed when saying "we're #6" -- what is the numerator and denominator of that metric?
I dont know wut ur looking at but the browns def actually has the lowest ypc of any team in the nfl while being the most rushed against
browns yds per attempt is 2.9.... best in the league. Yds per game overall is like 84. Thing tho is that all the teams above them havent been rushed against as much. Prob because those teams offenses actually score so the opposing offenses have to throw more.
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