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The Hoorta goes Ghoolie...

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  • nickersN nickers

    @dutch-oven said:

    It's not 1980 anymore, though.

    Hogan couldn't throw an out pattern vs the Texans in a climate-controlled environment in Houston.

    Your right it's not.. Let Me educate you... in 1980.. it was tougher to play qb because they didnt enforce the rules like they do now... receivers and backs got mugged continually...  And they allowed spear heading.. get back to us when you brush up on Football history...

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    Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
    #9

    @nickers said:

    Your right it's not.. Let Me educate you... in 1980.. it was tougher to play qb because they didnt enforce the rules like they do now... receivers and backs got mugged continually...  And they allowed spear heading.. get back to us when you brush up on Football history...

    First, it's "You're", not "Your".  Your attempt to educate me started off with a bang.

    Second, you are correct, the rules definitely benefited the defense in that era in comparison to now. I will counter that today's players are far more athletic, making windows to complete passes smaller than they were nearly 40 years ago. It's similar to why you don't see the famed Packer sweep of the 60s anymore - the players are too fast. How many QBs with comparable arm strength to Sipe are successful today?

    Third, I'll put my football history knowledge up against just about anyone on this board.

    nickersN 1 Reply Last reply
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    • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

      @nickers said:

      Your right it's not.. Let Me educate you... in 1980.. it was tougher to play qb because they didnt enforce the rules like they do now... receivers and backs got mugged continually...  And they allowed spear heading.. get back to us when you brush up on Football history...

      First, it's "You're", not "Your".  Your attempt to educate me started off with a bang.

      Second, you are correct, the rules definitely benefited the defense in that era in comparison to now. I will counter that today's players are far more athletic, making windows to complete passes smaller than they were nearly 40 years ago. It's similar to why you don't see the famed Packer sweep of the 60s anymore - the players are too fast. How many QBs with comparable arm strength to Sipe are successful today?

      Third, I'll put my football history knowledge up against just about anyone on this board.

      nickers nickersN Conversation Starter Dedicated Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
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      nickersN nickers wrote on last edited by
      #10

      @dutch-oven said:

      First, it's "You're", not "Your".  Your attempt to educate me started off with a bang.

      Second, you are correct, the rules definitely benefited the defense in that era in comparison to now. I will counter that today's players are far more athletic, making windows to complete passes smaller than they were nearly 40 years ago. It's similar to why you don't see the famed Packer sweep of the 60s anymore - the players are too fast. How many QBs with comparable arm strength to Sipe are successful today?

      Third, I'll put my football history knowledge up against just about anyone on this board.

      Drew Brees..  P.Manning to name a couple..Brady is not exactly a long ball thrower...

      Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~
      Dutch OvenD C 2 Replies Last reply
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      • nickersN nickers

        @dutch-oven said:

        First, it's "You're", not "Your".  Your attempt to educate me started off with a bang.

        Second, you are correct, the rules definitely benefited the defense in that era in comparison to now. I will counter that today's players are far more athletic, making windows to complete passes smaller than they were nearly 40 years ago. It's similar to why you don't see the famed Packer sweep of the 60s anymore - the players are too fast. How many QBs with comparable arm strength to Sipe are successful today?

        Third, I'll put my football history knowledge up against just about anyone on this board.

        Drew Brees..  P.Manning to name a couple..Brady is not exactly a long ball thrower...

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        Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
        #11

        @nickers said:

        Drew Brees..  P.Manning to name a couple..Brady is not exactly a long ball thrower...

        Brady throws the ball with way more zip than Sipe did.

        Brees played his career in San Diego and New Orlean's dome. Manning played indoors with the Colts for almost his entire career.

        I just can't see a QB with a below-average arm being successful today in a bad-weather football town like Cleveland.

        nickersN 1 Reply Last reply
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        • stillmotion stillmotionS Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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          stillmotionS stillmotion wrote on last edited by
          #12

          I never liked the Kizer pick because I wanted a more "Pro Ready" QB like Watson or even Trubinsky. Kizer was so-so at times in college, and while he had a big arm, he had accuracy issues and was never a "winner" like Wentz and Watson were. Those dudes just found ways to win games. That's one reason why I don't like Rosen this year. Dude can't figure out a way to win some games. You can blame his coach, or his defense, but great players always fine ways to win when the game is on the line. Horrible QB's crack under pressure and lose every game like Kizer. I think Kizer could probably be a backup after sitting and learning for a couple of years, but I don't get why we took him, because he's a 3 year project QB like Bortles. And at this rate, did our fans really want to wait 3 years to see if he can start for us?

          Chances are that our FO didn't like any QB's this past year out of the draft which is why they didn't take Watson (just like they didn't take Wentz the year before). I think they like Rosen and we'll pick him, but I don't really like that pick. Jimmy is cool tanking, but the fans shouldn't be. He could of rostered a better QB. It's all on Jimmy in my opinion. 

          Mark OM 1 Reply Last reply
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          • stillmotionS stillmotion

            I never liked the Kizer pick because I wanted a more "Pro Ready" QB like Watson or even Trubinsky. Kizer was so-so at times in college, and while he had a big arm, he had accuracy issues and was never a "winner" like Wentz and Watson were. Those dudes just found ways to win games. That's one reason why I don't like Rosen this year. Dude can't figure out a way to win some games. You can blame his coach, or his defense, but great players always fine ways to win when the game is on the line. Horrible QB's crack under pressure and lose every game like Kizer. I think Kizer could probably be a backup after sitting and learning for a couple of years, but I don't get why we took him, because he's a 3 year project QB like Bortles. And at this rate, did our fans really want to wait 3 years to see if he can start for us?

            Chances are that our FO didn't like any QB's this past year out of the draft which is why they didn't take Watson (just like they didn't take Wentz the year before). I think they like Rosen and we'll pick him, but I don't really like that pick. Jimmy is cool tanking, but the fans shouldn't be. He could of rostered a better QB. It's all on Jimmy in my opinion. 

            Mark O Mark OM Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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            Mark OM Mark O wrote on last edited by
            #13

            @stillmotion said:

            Chances are that our FO didn't like any QB's this past year out of the draft which is why they didn't take Watson (just like they didn't take Wentz the year before). I think they like Rosen and we'll pick him, but I don't really like that pick. Jimmy is cool tanking, but the fans shouldn't be. He could of rostered a better QB. It's all on Jimmy in my opinion. 

            I think you're right to a certain extent about winning in college but Peyton Manning had the same knock on him coming out of college, how did that turn out for everyone?   Especially in today's college game it's hard to blame a QB for a team that loses when theres a ton of points scored. 

            stillmotionS 1 Reply Last reply
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            • Mark OM Mark O

              @stillmotion said:

              Chances are that our FO didn't like any QB's this past year out of the draft which is why they didn't take Watson (just like they didn't take Wentz the year before). I think they like Rosen and we'll pick him, but I don't really like that pick. Jimmy is cool tanking, but the fans shouldn't be. He could of rostered a better QB. It's all on Jimmy in my opinion. 

              I think you're right to a certain extent about winning in college but Peyton Manning had the same knock on him coming out of college, how did that turn out for everyone?   Especially in today's college game it's hard to blame a QB for a team that loses when theres a ton of points scored. 

              stillmotion stillmotionS Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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              stillmotionS stillmotion wrote on last edited by stillmotion
              #14

              @mark-o said:

              I think you're right to a certain extent about winning in college but Peyton Manning had the same knock on him coming out of college, how did that turn out for everyone?   Especially in today's college game it's hard to blame a QB for a team that loses when theres a ton of points scored. 

              Peyton manning had flawless work ethic. Flawless. I've talked to many people that watch every UCLA game and live in Southern California, and not many of them at all think Rosen is a pro-ready QB. He does have an awesome arm, but most think it's his personality and work ethic that will ultimately hurt him.

              At least with Baker he backs it up by winning. People are loving hating him now, but the Kansas dudes didn't even shake his hand. 

              Article on Rosen

              http://thebiglead.com/2017/05/04/nfl-scout-and-executive-on-josh-rosen-tons-of-issues-and-a-mess-off-the-field/

              Not to say I can predict what will happen, but Rosen comes from rich parents in southern california, and mayfield comes from the midwest. I doubt Rosen, will be able to play competitively in the cold as well as a midwest QB.

              Dutch OvenD GhoolieG 2 Replies Last reply
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              • Orion OrionO Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                OrionO Orion wrote on last edited by
                #15

                I think Kizer was drafted more based on his 2015 season than his 2016.  

                I think that the mistakes over the last two years of our current regime have proven that they THOUGHT they knew what they were doing...but actually did not.  -  Learning on the job is for Interns, not for 'top of the pyramid' decision makers.

                BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
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                • Alkid3 A
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                  A Alkid3 wrote on last edited by
                  #16

                  You guys need to stop with this man crush you guys have on Hogan. He's terrible. Kessler is better than him. 

                  stillmotionS hoortaH 2 Replies Last reply
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                  • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

                    @nickers said:

                    Drew Brees..  P.Manning to name a couple..Brady is not exactly a long ball thrower...

                    Brady throws the ball with way more zip than Sipe did.

                    Brees played his career in San Diego and New Orlean's dome. Manning played indoors with the Colts for almost his entire career.

                    I just can't see a QB with a below-average arm being successful today in a bad-weather football town like Cleveland.

                    nickers nickersN Conversation Starter Dedicated Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
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                    nickersN nickers wrote on last edited by
                    #17

                    @dutch-oven said:

                    Brady throws the ball with way more zip than Sipe did.

                    Brees played his career in San Diego and New Orlean's dome. Manning played indoors with the Colts for almost his entire career.

                    I just can't see a QB with a below-average arm being successful today in a bad-weather football town like Cleveland.

                    yeah hows Case Keenum doing these days?

                    Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~
                    Dutch OvenD 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • A Alkid3

                      You guys need to stop with this man crush you guys have on Hogan. He's terrible. Kessler is better than him. 

                      stillmotion stillmotionS Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                      stillmotionS stillmotion wrote on last edited by
                      #18

                      @alkid3 said:

                      You guys need to stop with this man crush you guys have on Hogan. He's terrible. Kessler is better than him. 

                      I'd argue Hogan is better than Kessler. and PoG does have a point.

                      Mark OM The GipperT 2 Replies Last reply
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                      • stillmotionS stillmotion

                        @alkid3 said:

                        You guys need to stop with this man crush you guys have on Hogan. He's terrible. Kessler is better than him. 

                        I'd argue Hogan is better than Kessler. and PoG does have a point.

                        Mark O Mark OM Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                        Mark OM Mark O wrote on last edited by
                        #19

                        @stillmotion said:

                        I'd argue Hogan is better than Kessler. and PoG does have a point.

                        Neither one of them is any good.   And neither is Kizer for that matter.

                        stillmotionS 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • stillmotionS stillmotion

                          @mark-o said:

                          I think you're right to a certain extent about winning in college but Peyton Manning had the same knock on him coming out of college, how did that turn out for everyone?   Especially in today's college game it's hard to blame a QB for a team that loses when theres a ton of points scored. 

                          Peyton manning had flawless work ethic. Flawless. I've talked to many people that watch every UCLA game and live in Southern California, and not many of them at all think Rosen is a pro-ready QB. He does have an awesome arm, but most think it's his personality and work ethic that will ultimately hurt him.

                          At least with Baker he backs it up by winning. People are loving hating him now, but the Kansas dudes didn't even shake his hand. 

                          Article on Rosen

                          http://thebiglead.com/2017/05/04/nfl-scout-and-executive-on-josh-rosen-tons-of-issues-and-a-mess-off-the-field/

                          Not to say I can predict what will happen, but Rosen comes from rich parents in southern california, and mayfield comes from the midwest. I doubt Rosen, will be able to play competitively in the cold as well as a midwest QB.

                          Dutch Oven Dutch OvenD Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                          Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
                          #20

                          @stillmotion said:

                          Not to say I can predict what will happen, but Rosen comes from rich parents in southern california, and mayfield comes from the midwest. I doubt Rosen, will be able to play competitively in the cold as well as a midwest QB.

                          The three best QBs in Green Bay Packers history are Bart Starr, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

                          Starr is from Alabama, Favre is from Mississippi, Rodgers is from California. All thrived in the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field.

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                          • Mark OM Mark O

                            @stillmotion said:

                            I'd argue Hogan is better than Kessler. and PoG does have a point.

                            Neither one of them is any good.   And neither is Kizer for that matter.

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                            stillmotionS stillmotion wrote on last edited by
                            #21

                            @mark-o said:

                            Neither one of them is any good.   And neither is Kizer for that matter.

                            We need Kirk Cousins, unless Jimmy decides to settle on Spergeon Wynn 2.0 somewhere in the draft.

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                            • nickersN nickers

                              @dutch-oven said:

                              Brady throws the ball with way more zip than Sipe did.

                              Brees played his career in San Diego and New Orlean's dome. Manning played indoors with the Colts for almost his entire career.

                              I just can't see a QB with a below-average arm being successful today in a bad-weather football town like Cleveland.

                              yeah hows Case Keenum doing these days?

                              Dutch Oven Dutch OvenD Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                              Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
                              #22

                              @nickers said:

                              yeah hows Case Keenum doing these days?

                              The Vikings play in a dome.

                              Next.

                              nickersN 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • stillmotionS stillmotion

                                @mark-o said:

                                Neither one of them is any good.   And neither is Kizer for that matter.

                                We need Kirk Cousins, unless Jimmy decides to settle on Spergeon Wynn 2.0 somewhere in the draft.

                                DieHardBrownsFan DieHardBrownsFanD Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Collaborator Posting Machine First Post One Month Later Week One Done One Year In
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                                DieHardBrownsFanD DieHardBrownsFan wrote on last edited by
                                #23

                                @stillmotion said:

                                We need Kirk Cousins, unless Jimmy decides to settle on Spergeon Wynn 2.0 somewhere in the draft.

                                I said we should have traded for cousins years ago.  But we will never get him now.

                                "You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970.
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                                • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

                                  @stillmotion said:

                                  Not to say I can predict what will happen, but Rosen comes from rich parents in southern california, and mayfield comes from the midwest. I doubt Rosen, will be able to play competitively in the cold as well as a midwest QB.

                                  The three best QBs in Green Bay Packers history are Bart Starr, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

                                  Starr is from Alabama, Favre is from Mississippi, Rodgers is from California. All thrived in the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field.

                                  stillmotion stillmotionS Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                                  stillmotionS stillmotion wrote on last edited by
                                  #24

                                  @dutch-oven said:

                                  The three best QBs in Green Bay Packers history are Bart Starr, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

                                  Starr is from Alabama, Favre is from Mississippi, Rodgers is from California. All thrived in the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field.

                                  Did they all grow up with a super rich daddy like Rosen and Manziel did?

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                                  • stillmotionS stillmotion

                                    @dutch-oven said:

                                    The three best QBs in Green Bay Packers history are Bart Starr, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

                                    Starr is from Alabama, Favre is from Mississippi, Rodgers is from California. All thrived in the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field.

                                    Did they all grow up with a super rich daddy like Rosen and Manziel did?

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                                    Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
                                    #25

                                    @stillmotion said:

                                    Did they all grow up with a super rich daddy like Rosen and Manziel did?

                                    What does that have to do regarding the ability to play football in bad weather?

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                                    • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

                                      @stillmotion said:

                                      Did they all grow up with a super rich daddy like Rosen and Manziel did?

                                      What does that have to do regarding the ability to play football in bad weather?

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                                      stillmotionS stillmotion wrote on last edited by
                                      #26

                                      @dutch-oven said:

                                      What does that have to do regarding the ability to play football in bad weather?

                                      Pretty sure work ethic is what got Brett Favre, Bart Starr, and Aaron Rodgers where they are, and that's what scouts have been complaining about with Josh Rosen.

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                                      • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

                                        @nickers said:

                                        yeah hows Case Keenum doing these days?

                                        The Vikings play in a dome.

                                        Next.

                                        nickers nickersN Conversation Starter Dedicated Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
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                                        nickersN nickers wrote on last edited by
                                        #27

                                        @dutch-oven said:

                                        The Vikings play in a dome.

                                        Next.

                                        so you said a weak armed QB  cant make it today..  So quit makin Sheet up as you go along. And so what.. the kid doesnt play in a dome every week smarty pants!

                                        Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~
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                                        • stillmotionS stillmotion

                                          @dutch-oven said:

                                          What does that have to do regarding the ability to play football in bad weather?

                                          Pretty sure work ethic is what got Brett Favre, Bart Starr, and Aaron Rodgers where they are, and that's what scouts have been complaining about with Josh Rosen.

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                                          Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
                                          #28

                                          @stillmotion said:

                                          Pretty sure work ethic is what got Brett Favre, Bart Starr, and Aaron Rodgers where they are, and that's what scouts have been complaining about with Josh Rosen.

                                          And if that is true, I would be hesitant to draft him too.

                                          There seems to be a lot of differing views on Rosen regarding his character. I like his talent, but a month ago mentioned that some things I read about him worries me. I hope to have a clearer picture of Josh Rosen in the upcoming months. On the field, there's a lot to like.

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