Positives from the 2017 season?

The Gipper

@browns52 said:

oh come on....this cowpoop reply has been going on for yrs....i have heard the same Sheet for i don't know how many yrs now....oooo ......ooooo....ooo...we have some talent...oooo...ooo....pfffffffffffffft is what i say...you get a little dribble here and there and then the dribbles end up with other teams....better teams...much better teams...

So....what is your point?

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:

But, again, the question is: do we trust THESE guys to be the one's to address these deficiencies?

A lot of these deficiencies are caused by this groups pathetic talent evaluation skills. On the other hand.....a number of the "bright spots" were also these guys choices.

But...if they are at best 50/50 with their talent selections.....quite frankly my dear, that just ain't damned good enough.

On behalf of me and the mouse in my pocket... yes.
Pathetic? Overruled... facts not in evidence.
50/50... a/k/a better than league average, a/k/a far from "pathetic".... and that's including the 2016 WR net.

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

On behalf of me and the mouse in my pocket... yes.

Sounds like you might trust them to sell you a bridge....I wouldn't.

Pathetic? Overruled... facts not in evidence.

Maybe I am attributing too much of what previous regimes did to them. Still....a lot of the criticism of their actions is based on who they didn't pick vs. who they did pick.

50/50... a/k/a better than league average, a/k/a far from "pathetic".

Well.....when they come close to a 50% success rate...call us and we can re-evaluate.

MLD Woody

Duke

Ogbah

D Bone

Schobert...... I like that dude.

TexasAg1969

I had Mixon on my FF team against the Browns. His career day assisted me in winning the pool this week. That's positive.

thenew23

The talent is very close to good... but...

I am of the belief that your QB and Head Coach are your 2 most important assets, and we have neither...

A lot of people reference other teams that turn it around in 1-2 years... they all hired effective coaches, and usually, change QBs either with a FA vet or a VERY HIGH draft pick... we can't seem to do either... Hue and RGIII was obviously not the answer (e.g., Reid/Smith, Peterson/Wentz, McVay/Goff, Carroll/ Wilson, Kubiak/Manning... those are just off the top of my head).

Frank Reich, Dave Toub, or what this article says... https://nflmocks.com/2017/11/11/2018-nfl-season-playing-new-head-coach-matchmaker/amp/

Pair one of them with Cousins and/or the top draft pick and we'll see more wins.

Keep Hue = yikes...

domcucch1994

Positives from the 2017 season...

Well the Eagles are 10-1, and Carson Wentz is proving to the NFL world that he is a franchise QB.

Tour2ma

@domcucch1994 said:

Well the Eagles are 10-1, and Carson Wentz is proving to the NFL world that he is a franchise QB.

Is he?

Let's breakdown the Eagles...

Offense

#1 in points scored
3rd in yards... well behind the top two
7th in yards per play
22nd in turnovers
23rd in pass attempts
25th in pass completions.... hmmm
#1 in TD passes... good
T-28 in INTs.... also good.
#2 in rushing attempts... they run a lot
#2 in rushing yards
T-3 in YPC... they run well
T-21 in penalties
T-24 in penalty yards
T-13 in sacks allowed
#17 in sack percentage.

Defense

#3 scoring D
#6 yardage D
T-3 yd allowed per play
#3 in takeaways
#16 Pass yd allowed
T-11 pass TD allowed
#3 in INTs
#1 in rushing yd allowed
T-1 in rushing TD allowed
#4 in YPA
T-8 in penalties
#9 in penalty yards
#3 in scoring percentage
#3 in turnover percentage.

Buck The Frowns

Myles Garrett was a good draft choice. He apparently is for real.

miktoxic

in a league that is being blackmailed by it's players. i said it might take a while to pick out 5 names of quality players that would start for another team and you saw Z's list.

laughable.

what a sham. and the suckaz will keep on suckin.

DieHardBrownsFan

@tour2ma said:

Is he?

Let's breakdown the Eagles...

Offense

#1 in points scored

3rd in yards... well behind the top two

7th in yards per play

22nd in turnovers

23rd in pass attempts

25th in pass completions.... hmmm

#1 in TD passes... good

T-28 in INTs.... also good.

#2 in rushing attempts... they run a lot

#2 in rushing yards

T-3 in YPC... they run well

T-21 in penalties

T-24 in penalty yards

T-13 in sacks allowed

#17 in sack percentage.

Defense

#3 scoring D

#6 yardage D

T-3 yd allowed per play

#3 in takeaways

#16 Pass yd allowed

T-11 pass TD allowed

#3 in INTs

#1 in rushing yd allowed

T-1 in rushing TD allowed

#4 in YPA

T-8 in penalties

#9 in penalty yards

#3 in scoring percentage

#3 in turnover percentage.

Carson Wentz #11 QB

Philadelphia Eagles | Official Team Site

Height: 6-5 Weight: 237 Age: 24

Born: 12/30/1992 Raleigh , NC

College: North Dakota State

Experience: 2nd season

High School: Century HS [Bismarck, ND]

TDS

28

INT

5

YDS

2,657

RTG

104.0

Carson Wentz:

PASSING
Year	Team	G	Att	Comp	Pct	Att/G	Yds	Avg	Yds/G	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	20+	40+	Sck	SckY	Rate
2017	Philadelphia Eagles	11	354	213	60.2	32.2	2,657	7.5	241.5	28	7.9	5	1.4	72T	30	7	24	131	104.0

2016	Philadelphia Eagles	16	607	379	62.4	37.9	3,782	6.2	236.4	16	2.6	14	2.3	73T	39	6	33	213	79.3

TOTAL	27	961	592	61.6	35.6	6,439	6.7	238.5	44	4.6	19	2.0	73	69	13	57	344	88.4

Tour2ma

Ooooo... more numbers... out of context.

The context is that Wentz is a good piece of a very good team. He may yet confirm that he is "franchise" level, but the talk of that now, let alone the MVP talk, is premature.

Most explain away Carson's 2016 numbers, and their roll-off thru the season, as being due to the loss of Lane Johnson, a RT. I think that's fair to a point, although it did not help that the level of their competition increased over the stretch that entailed his 10-game suspension. What is not fair is to ignore the corollary conclusion that he could not even compensate for the loss of one OL, let alone carry a team.

So what about 2017? Well... they upgraded around Carson. They added Jeffries and Torey Smith to their WR corps plusdrafted backups Hollins and Gibson. They added RBs Blount (FA) and recently Ajayi plus Pumphrey in the draft. They deepened their OL adding Wisniewski (old friend of the OL followers here) and Warmack. Any noting this season of an issue with the loss of starting LT, Lane Johnson, to IR?

And then there is the Eagle D... a very good D that added to the DL, Jernigan via trade, drafted Barnett, signed Long for depth. Plus they drafted Douglas to add to a very good 2ndary and stashed the injured Sidney Jones for future use.

Bottom line... this is a loaded team that asks its 2nd-year QB to not lose games rather than win them. And he is doing so in style... no doubt about that, but let's not crown him yet as we did not last year's darling QB. Here's their comparison...

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD
2016*	23		QB	4	16	16	13-3-0	311	459	67.8	3667	23	5.0	4	0.9	83	8.0	8.6	11.8	229.2	104.9	81.5	25	143	7.28	7.86	5.2	5	5

2017	25		QB	11	11	11	10-1-0	213	354	60.2	2657	28	7.9	5	1.4	72	7.5	8.5	12.5	241.5	104.0		----- 24	131	6.68	7.57	6.3	1	1

The Gipper

@ Tour: What you are saying is that, like the old adage, man does not live on bread alone. Good teams do not live on a good QB alone.

There certainly have been some good QBs playing on bad teams...and vice versa.

Curious question: Which teams this year 2017 are being held back by a bad QB?

And are there any actually bad teams that have been greatly enhanced by the presence of a good QB?

Nero

@the-gipper said:

Which teams this year 2017 are being held back by a bad QB?

And are there any actually bad teams that have been greatly enhanced by the presence of a good QB?

A. First ones that come to mind are Bortles and the Denver chaos.

B. Rodgers is a pillar in GB, Russell Wilson makes magic with what he has around him... The Seattle Oline and run game is a joke.

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:

@ Tour: What you are saying is that, like the old adage, man does not live on bread alone. Good teams do not live on a good QB alone.

There certainly have been some good QBs playing on bad teams...and vice versa.

Curious question: Which teams this year 2017 are being held back by a bad QB?

And are there any actually bad teams that have been greatly enhanced by the presence of a good QB?

Pretty much got it, Gip. Right now Wentz is "bread".... "white bread" if you want to go there.

The "other" stat line I placed above Carson's is Dak's from 2016. A good QB who came into a great situation as a rookie. A QB some Wentzbackers, among others, have pointed out looks pretty ordinary this year absent his LT and RB and a Sean Lee led D. Can't disagree with that, but the telling thing I see between the two stat lines are the 4QC (4th Qtr Comeback) and GWD (Game Winning Drive) figures. While these are from mutually exclusive measures of "clutch", they are macro-ish measures of that quality. I am not saying Wentz lacks it, just that there's no solid evidence he has it at the NFL level.

Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain.

You've raised a pair of good, thread-worthy QB questions. I'll wait for you to crank one up rather than further "derail" this tread....

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Pretty much got it, Gip. Right now Wentz is "bread".... "white bread" if you want to go there.

The "other" stat line I placed above Carson's is Dak's from 2016. A good QB who came into a great situation as a rookie. A QB some Wentzbackers, among others, have pointed out looks pretty ordinary this year absent his LT and RB and a Sean Lee led D. Can't disagree with that, but the telling thing I see between the two stat lines are the 4QC (4th Qtr Comeback) and GWD (Game Winning Drive) figures. While these are from mutually exclusive measures of "clutch", they are macro-ish measures of that quality. I am not saying Wentz lacks it, just that there's no solid evidence he has it at the NFL level.

Not saying he does not turn out to be Prime Filet Mignon... just not there yet. I think he has the opportunity this Sunday in Seattle to show if he is heading up the food chain.

You've raised a pair of good, thread-worthy QB questions. I'll wait for you to crank one up rather than further "derail" this tread....

Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada.

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:

Oh well...this thread could use a good tangent. After all, it is: What is positive in the 2017 Browns. Which can probably be answered in one foreign word: Nada.

So some derails are OK?

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

So some derails are OK?

That depends.....on how good your manners are, and how big your pocketbook is.

(You're a daisy if you can identify that quote)

Dutch Oven

@the-gipper said:

That depends.....on how good your manners are, and how big your pocketbook is.

(You're a daisy if you can identify that quote)

That is a quote from: To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar.