Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?
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Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
My fear is that all these idiots will be here to attempt such a move:
Solution: get rid of these idiots.
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These
idiotsgeniuses are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA caseHmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
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Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
I'm also afraid of that scenario. I think we should take a veteran QB before the draft, but I won't stay calm until we draft a QB. Them sticking to McCarron as our QBotF is scary. Hell, in Spanish his name (macarrón) means macaroni, I can't take him seriously.
It'd be SO stupid not to draft a QB this April...
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I could be happy with Allen or Lee later with the second first round pick, even with a trade down and Lee..
and pick Minkah Fitspatrick cb/fs with the first pick. should be an amazing draft.
but you have to pick a qb - we'll know more after watching Kizer play out the rest of the season.
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I love how people wail ceaselessly about us trading out of goff and wentz. Now want us trade out of rosen/darnold/allen etc. All who at this point of their careers faced much tougher opponents than wentz did.
Look perhaps personal issues crop up with rosen. But as of right now that kids the clear eye test winner. I pointed out a play he made against the usc game where he exhibited poise in the face of a free charging pass rusher that i honestly cant remember seeing from anyone, especially in college. Freezing the rusher with a pump fake aimed directly at him allowing an underneath crossing route to come free for a first down......i mean damn. Its easy to get googly eyed by arm talent....weedon.....but that kind of pocket poise is almost more important
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These
idiotsgeniuses are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA caseHmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
Hmmmm... might have to add AJ to my "vet presence" list.
McCarron-Kizer-Rosen... a QB room that works for me.
A little shocked you hadn't arrived at that potential lineup a while ago.
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A little shocked you hadn't arrived at that potential lineup a while ago.
I'm a lil off today...
Also just added Eli to the vet mix... but as FA. There are $45mm reasons to not trade for him.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'm a lil off today...
Also just added Eli to the vet mix... but as FA. There are $45mm reasons to not trade for him.
Somebody asked me what I thought about Eli for a 2 year deal not a minute after I walked into work. Response was about the same. Eli is good off the ball action game and would offer a lot in the QB room but I'm not paying him his current salary.
Hard to imagine him not ending up in Jacksonville though. Old head coach, young RB, good defense and some young receivers to work with? Improve their Oline situation and they're superbowl contenders.
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with all the great talent in this next qb class, if Lee is in the 2018 draft - my two picks for the Browns
are Allen and Lee. Argue stats forever, but stats don't make the case entirely at all.
I look for a pro quarterback that can lead his team, character/intelligent football IQ/love for the game/leadership/intangibles to inspire his teammates..
it's easy to find the physical tools. btw, nole that Woo says Lee throws better than Goff. I mean, seriously -
Josh Allen or Tanner Lee. Take it to the bank, jack.
with all the great talent in this next qb class, if Lee is in the 2018 draft - my two picks for the Browns
are Allen and Lee. Argue stats forever, but stats don't make the case entirely at all.
So you want to disregard stats when discussing Allen's faults? Alright then.
Let's discuss his horrible mechanics and the massive jump from the poor competition he mostly faced to the NFL then.
And trust me cal, a lot of us really know why you don't like Rosen.
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Here's my fear on this FO & HC. These idiots are going to take McCarron if he wins his UFA case and trade out of that position where they can easily take Rosen. That would be the ultimte Browns nightmare that would last for more years to come. I trust Hue on QBs about as far as I could toss him. The FO even less.
My fear is that all these idiots will be here to attempt such a move:
Solution: get rid of these idiots.
My fear is that all these idiots will be here to attempt such a move:
Solution: get rid of these idiots.
My biggest fear is everyone DOES survive for a third season and in an attempt to make sure they make it to a fourth they make short-term moves in an attempt to win NOW, and not better moves that would make this team much better long-term.
Something along the lines of passing on a QB high in the next draft and signing McCarron. (Basically, the 2018 version of what I've mentioned before - the sign Jeff Garcia/not draft Roethlisberger desperate move of Butch Davis).
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with all the great talent in this next qb class, if Lee is in the 2018 draft - my two picks for the Browns
are Allen and Lee. Argue stats forever, but stats don't make the case entirely at all.
So you want to disregard stats when discussing Allen's faults? Alright then.
Let's discuss his horrible mechanics and the massive jump from the poor competition he mostly faced to the NFL then.
And trust me cal, a lot of us really know why you don't like Rosen.
So you want to disregard stats when discussing Allen's faults? Alright then.
Let's discuss his horrible mechanics and the massive jump from the poor competition he mostly faced to the NFL then.
And trust me cal, a lot of us really know why you don't like Rosen.
https://www.thephinsider.com/2017/9/6/16258338/josh-allen-has-the-strongest-arm-in-college-football
"His mechanics are clean and polished, and arm strength will never be a problem for him in the NFL. There isn’t a long-distance throw that he can’t make, nor a part of the field that he can’t attack. He throws on the run at an elite level, and his release is quick enough to squeeze it into tight windows during broken plays. "
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Like all college players, there are things that Rosen can improve on. For one, he could stand to get better with the consistency of his accuracy. There are times when Rosen gets into stretches where his accuracy is off and he can miss some throws he should complete. Rosen needs to get faster and speed up the process to scan through his progressions, too. In the pros, he is going to need to move his eyes more and not lock onto his primary read or one of the side of the field so much. The junior also needs to stay healthy in 2017 to avoid having serious durability concerns about him for the NFL.
One of the big problems for Rosen entering his junior year is that he has developed a reputation for having poor intangibles as a bad teammate and leader. Football is an emotional game, and NFL teams want their quarterbacks to be positive team leaders. Whether it is a vocal leader or a quiet lead-by-example type, NFL evaluators and coaches want the quarterback to be a player who teammates gravitate toward with the ability to lead his team in crunch time. Rosen is said to be disliked in the Bruins' locker room, and it sounds like he needs a personality make-over. A scout who has done advance work on the 2018 NFL Draft had this to say about Rosen:
- "Right now I have them rated [Sam] Darnold, [Josh] Allen, [Lamar] Jackson, and then Rosen....Rosen has huge talent and lacks intangibles. He is a prototypical pocket guy. I love his talent, but his own teammates don't like him. Being a prick is one thing, but there aren't many quarterbacks who stick around long-term and are successful that couldn't get along well with their teammates."
Read more at http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php#brkX4pbwO0R7jh1X.99 -
So you want to disregard stats when discussing Allen's faults? Alright then.
Let's discuss his horrible mechanics and the massive jump from the poor competition he mostly faced to the NFL then.
And trust me cal, a lot of us really know why you don't like Rosen.
https://www.thephinsider.com/2017/9/6/16258338/josh-allen-has-the-strongest-arm-in-college-football
"His mechanics are clean and polished, and arm strength will never be a problem for him in the NFL. There isn’t a long-distance throw that he can’t make, nor a part of the field that he can’t attack. He throws on the run at an elite level, and his release is quick enough to squeeze it into tight windows during broken plays. "
https://www.thephinsider.com/2017/9/6/16258338/josh-allen-has-the-strongest-arm-in-college-football
"His mechanics are clean and polished, and arm strength will never be a problem for him in the NFL. There isn’t a long-distance throw that he can’t make, nor a part of the field that he can’t attack. He throws on the run at an elite level, and his release is quick enough to squeeze it into tight windows during broken plays. "
He's got a very strong arm.
His footwork is atrocious. He throws off his back foot on the regular.
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Browns' long-term solution? How about Kirk Cousins and Saquon Barkley
BEREA, Ohio -- There are days when the Cleveland Browns seem light years from being competitive.
As ridiculous as it sounds, though, there is a way to look at the Browns as one offseason away. Yes, that's a tired old refrain in Cleveland, where the football team has been one offseason away for ... oh ... 18 years.
But this offseason, the Browns actually are positioned for dramatic work -- if they want to do it, and have the gumption to do it. They even could do it if the owner wants to retain the same front office and coaching staff -- if they are willing to make a tectonic shift in how players are evaluated.
The Browns at present have $61 million in salary-cap space and are projected to top $100 million in cap space for 2018, according to overthecap.com.
That number will shrink, dramatically, but even if it shrinks by only half, the Browns will have a lot of room to work with in free agency.
Their needs are evident: Another quarterback, another running back to replace Isaiah Crowell, who appears headed to free agency, another receiver (or two), a cornerback and a safety.
Five picks in the first two rounds of the draft will address some of those needs.
But free agency can as well.
Here's how:
1) Sign Kirk Cousins, quarterback from the Washington Redskins.
There are concerns about this. Cousins will demand the kind of money that will make the Terminal Tower tilt. And he'd get it from the Browns. Given the state of the team, the Browns can't afford to skimp.
Cousins also might not make free agency. The Redskins may make him their franchise player, again. Cousins also is seeking an organization he can believe in, where he can win without drama. That doesn't seem to fit Cleveland.
The solution?
Money. It talks, and everything else walks in these situations. Players over and over say this and that about free agency, but as a veteran coach once said, "It's always about the money." The Browns showed that last offseason when they spent freely. This offseason, they are positioned to spend enormous amounts of money on a player like Cousins. If he gets to free agency and the possibility exists he'd consider the Browns, then the Browns need to do it. The team is in that state. They simply need to do it.
Why Cousins?
Needed credibility. He has played, he has played well, he has won, and he has been in playoff games. He's second in the league this season in passing yards with 3,038, and he has 19 touchdowns and six interceptions. His rating of 101.1 is seventh. In terms of Total QBR, he's eighth, between Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson.
In his career, he has completed 65.9 percent of his throws, has 91 touchdowns to 48 interceptions and a rating of 95.1.
He's not Tom Brady. He's not Drew Brees. He may not even be Jared Goff. But he's the best option the Browns have heading into this offseason.
What does this say about DeShone Kizer? Nothing. Kizer is improving. If he's good enough and up to the competition, he'll keep the job.
2) Draft Saquon Barkley, Penn State running back.Isaiah Crowell is more or less gone, though lately with more opportunities, he has been showing the skills he displayed a year ago. If Crowell leaves, the Browns could add a dynamic back in Barkley.
His evaluations will fluctuate as the draft approaches, but the decreased importance of the running back in today's era is silly. Leonard Fournette has helped the Jaguars. Todd Gurley looks good with the Rams. Barkley runs hard, is quick and can catch the ball too. He has averaged more than 5 yards per carry three years in a row.
3) Light a lot of candles that Josh Gordon really is back for good.
Gordon has climbed a mountain to get to this point. His daily struggle now begins. If he's back whole and healthy and even 75 percent of what he was, the Browns have their No. 1 receiver. Time will answer whether he is.
4) Re-sign Terrelle Pryor.
Pryor made a mistake leaving the Browns, a place where he had a spot and was comfortable and where he had a good relationship with the coach. Assuming Hue Jackson is back, Pryor would be more productive in Cleveland than in D.C.
Pryor and Cousins may not have had great success this season, but the two will have a year's experience together, and Pryor is familiar with the Browns' system. The combination of Pryor and Gordon with perhaps Corey Coleman or a drafted player (Calvin Ridley, Courtland Sutton) in the slot (yes, the slot for Coleman) and David Njoku at tight end ... suddenly the Browns seem to have something in the passing game.
5) Draft the right guys.
Get a cornerback. Get a safety. Get a receiver, or two.
More important, forget algorithms, forget projections, forget the fact that a guy looks like a future player even though he couldn't catch in college. Draft football players. Repeat: Draft football players. Make the input of the coaching staff matter more than computer printouts from the second floor. If it takes giving Jackson final say over personnel, then give him final say. Let the football folks make the decisions.
It's not complicated, really.
Line up Cousins at quarterback with Barkley at running back, Gordon, Pryor and a to-be-determined at receiver, and Njoku at tight end with a defense that has shown signs, and 2018 might just be the year of the real turnaround.
Yes, this kind of pie-in-the-sky scenario has been written before. Too many times.
But this scenario might just work.
-
-
Like all college players, there are things that Rosen can improve on. For one, he could stand to get better with the consistency of his accuracy. There are times when Rosen gets into stretches where his accuracy is off and he can miss some throws he should complete. Rosen needs to get faster and speed up the process to scan through his progressions, too. In the pros, he is going to need to move his eyes more and not lock onto his primary read or one of the side of the field so much. The junior also needs to stay healthy in 2017 to avoid having serious durability concerns about him for the NFL.
One of the big problems for Rosen entering his junior year is that he has developed a reputation for having poor intangibles as a bad teammate and leader. Football is an emotional game, and NFL teams want their quarterbacks to be positive team leaders. Whether it is a vocal leader or a quiet lead-by-example type, NFL evaluators and coaches want the quarterback to be a player who teammates gravitate toward with the ability to lead his team in crunch time. Rosen is said to be disliked in the Bruins' locker room, and it sounds like he needs a personality make-over. A scout who has done advance work on the 2018 NFL Draft had this to say about Rosen:
- "Right now I have them rated [Sam] Darnold, [Josh] Allen, [Lamar] Jackson, and then Rosen....Rosen has huge talent and lacks intangibles. He is a prototypical pocket guy. I love his talent, but his own teammates don't like him. Being a prick is one thing, but there aren't many quarterbacks who stick around long-term and are successful that couldn't get along well with their teammates."
Read more at http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php#brkX4pbwO0R7jh1X.99 -
Browns' long-term solution? How about Kirk Cousins and Saquon Barkley
BEREA, Ohio -- There are days when the Cleveland Browns seem light years from being competitive.
As ridiculous as it sounds, though, there is a way to look at the Browns as one offseason away. Yes, that's a tired old refrain in Cleveland, where the football team has been one offseason away for ... oh ... 18 years.
But this offseason, the Browns actually are positioned for dramatic work -- if they want to do it, and have the gumption to do it. They even could do it if the owner wants to retain the same front office and coaching staff -- if they are willing to make a tectonic shift in how players are evaluated.
The Browns at present have $61 million in salary-cap space and are projected to top $100 million in cap space for 2018, according to overthecap.com.
That number will shrink, dramatically, but even if it shrinks by only half, the Browns will have a lot of room to work with in free agency.
Their needs are evident: Another quarterback, another running back to replace Isaiah Crowell, who appears headed to free agency, another receiver (or two), a cornerback and a safety.
Five picks in the first two rounds of the draft will address some of those needs.
But free agency can as well.
Here's how:
1) Sign Kirk Cousins, quarterback from the Washington Redskins.
There are concerns about this. Cousins will demand the kind of money that will make the Terminal Tower tilt. And he'd get it from the Browns. Given the state of the team, the Browns can't afford to skimp.
Cousins also might not make free agency. The Redskins may make him their franchise player, again. Cousins also is seeking an organization he can believe in, where he can win without drama. That doesn't seem to fit Cleveland.
The solution?
Money. It talks, and everything else walks in these situations. Players over and over say this and that about free agency, but as a veteran coach once said, "It's always about the money." The Browns showed that last offseason when they spent freely. This offseason, they are positioned to spend enormous amounts of money on a player like Cousins. If he gets to free agency and the possibility exists he'd consider the Browns, then the Browns need to do it. The team is in that state. They simply need to do it.
Why Cousins?
Needed credibility. He has played, he has played well, he has won, and he has been in playoff games. He's second in the league this season in passing yards with 3,038, and he has 19 touchdowns and six interceptions. His rating of 101.1 is seventh. In terms of Total QBR, he's eighth, between Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson.
In his career, he has completed 65.9 percent of his throws, has 91 touchdowns to 48 interceptions and a rating of 95.1.
He's not Tom Brady. He's not Drew Brees. He may not even be Jared Goff. But he's the best option the Browns have heading into this offseason.
What does this say about DeShone Kizer? Nothing. Kizer is improving. If he's good enough and up to the competition, he'll keep the job.
2) Draft Saquon Barkley, Penn State running back.Isaiah Crowell is more or less gone, though lately with more opportunities, he has been showing the skills he displayed a year ago. If Crowell leaves, the Browns could add a dynamic back in Barkley.
His evaluations will fluctuate as the draft approaches, but the decreased importance of the running back in today's era is silly. Leonard Fournette has helped the Jaguars. Todd Gurley looks good with the Rams. Barkley runs hard, is quick and can catch the ball too. He has averaged more than 5 yards per carry three years in a row.
3) Light a lot of candles that Josh Gordon really is back for good.
Gordon has climbed a mountain to get to this point. His daily struggle now begins. If he's back whole and healthy and even 75 percent of what he was, the Browns have their No. 1 receiver. Time will answer whether he is.
4) Re-sign Terrelle Pryor.
Pryor made a mistake leaving the Browns, a place where he had a spot and was comfortable and where he had a good relationship with the coach. Assuming Hue Jackson is back, Pryor would be more productive in Cleveland than in D.C.
Pryor and Cousins may not have had great success this season, but the two will have a year's experience together, and Pryor is familiar with the Browns' system. The combination of Pryor and Gordon with perhaps Corey Coleman or a drafted player (Calvin Ridley, Courtland Sutton) in the slot (yes, the slot for Coleman) and David Njoku at tight end ... suddenly the Browns seem to have something in the passing game.
5) Draft the right guys.
Get a cornerback. Get a safety. Get a receiver, or two.
More important, forget algorithms, forget projections, forget the fact that a guy looks like a future player even though he couldn't catch in college. Draft football players. Repeat: Draft football players. Make the input of the coaching staff matter more than computer printouts from the second floor. If it takes giving Jackson final say over personnel, then give him final say. Let the football folks make the decisions.
It's not complicated, really.
Line up Cousins at quarterback with Barkley at running back, Gordon, Pryor and a to-be-determined at receiver, and Njoku at tight end with a defense that has shown signs, and 2018 might just be the year of the real turnaround.
Yes, this kind of pie-in-the-sky scenario has been written before. Too many times.
But this scenario might just work.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I doubt there is enough money to lure Cousins to Cleveland. Someone would have to abduct his wife in a "Taken" scenario where Cousins has a particular set of skills and thus has to make the playoffs in order to save his old lady.
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Cousins will end up with a team that is just lacking a QB to make a decent run (i.e. Jacksonville).
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with all the great talent in this next qb class, if Lee is in the 2018 draft - my two picks for the Browns
are Allen and Lee. Argue stats forever, but stats don't make the case entirely at all.
So you want to disregard stats when discussing Allen's faults? Alright then.
Let's discuss his horrible mechanics and the massive jump from the poor competition he mostly faced to the NFL then.
And trust me cal, a lot of us really know why you don't like Rosen.
So you want to disregard stats when discussing Allen's faults? Alright then.
Let's discuss his horrible mechanics and the massive jump from the poor competition he mostly faced to the NFL then.
And trust me cal, a lot of us really know why you don't like Rosen.
Why because ha is Jewish
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