Mel Kiper says
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Josh Allen? Really?
Yes it's one of those bullshyt ESPN things that makes you join to read the whole thing but number one was surprising enough.
Josh Allen? Really?
Yes it's one of those bullshyt ESPN things that makes you join to read the whole thing but number one was surprising enough.
I know Cal loves him some Josh Allen. If he had Rosen or Darnold's accuracy, he'd be a slam dunk #1 overall. Unfortunately, Mel has overlooked at this point in time Allen doesn't- and I have doubts he ever will.
And to mock Mel- I will never forget this one... "mmmmuuuusssstttt draft Hart Lee Dykes". first round pick, shades of Corey Coleman.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DykeHa00.htm
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Here is how well Kiper did with his mock draft 1.0 in 2014:
1. QB, Johnny Manziel - Houston
2. OT, Jake Matthews - St. Louis via Wash
3. DE, Jadeveon Clowney - Jax
4. QB, Blake Bortles - Cleveland
5. WR, Sammy Watkins - Oakland
6. OLB, Anthony Barr - Atlanta
7. OLB, Khalil Mack - Tampa Bay
8. QB, Teddy Twatwater - Minnesota
9. OT, Greg Robinson - Buffalo
10. CB, Justin Gilbert - Detroit
11. OT, Taylor Lewan - Tennessee
12. LB, C.J. Mosley - NYG
13. WR, Mike Evans - St. Louis
14. DT, Timmy Jernigan - Chichago
15. DT, Louis Nix III - Fag Steelers
16. TE, Eric Ebron - Baltimore
17. S, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix - Dallas
18. WR, Marquise Lee - NYJ
19. OT, Cyrus Kouandjio - Miami
20. OT, Zack Martin - Arizona
21. S, Calvin Pryor - Green Bay
22. WR, Calvin Benjamin - Philly
23. DE, Stephon Tuitt - Kansas City
24. CB, Darqueze Dennard - Cincy
25. CB, Bradley Roby - San Diego
26. RB, Carlos Hyde - Cleveland
27. OT, Antonio Richardson - New Orleans
28. WR, Brandin Cooks - Carolina
29. TE, Jace Amaro - New England
30. WR, Odell Beckham Jr. - San Fran
31. DE, Scott Crichton - Denver
32. WR, Allen Robinson - Seattle
Zombo said:
Here is how well Kiper did with his mock draft 1.0 in 2014:
1. QB, Johnny Manziel - Houston
2. OT, Jake Matthews - St. Louis via Wash
3. DE, Jadeveon Clowney - Jax
4. QB, Blake Bortles - Cleveland
5. WR, Sammy Watkins - Oakland
6. OLB, Anthony Barr - Atlanta
7. OLB, Khalil Mack - Tampa Bay
8. QB, Teddy Twatwater - Minnesota
I truncated it to save space Z, Mel did hit on a lot of his first round picks- just not in the order they were taken. Of course you always have to take into account there's going to be around 25- 30% first rounders that don't live up to their draft status, and another 25-30% that are flat out busts. Of course the Browns have turned picking the first round losers into an art form.
Thanks to Gip's research in the past 10 years we've had two hits in the first round, a maybe in Shelton, a very iffy Coleman, and hopein' Garrett can stay healthy. that gets you 0-16.
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I like Kiper...but the fact is....his projections are likely no better than yours are Steve.
Or anybody's here if you want to tell the truth. Just like there's nobody on this board that knows as much as the assistant coffee feature for the ball boy. Still he's a national guy and I thought that was an interesting take. If you listen to the video he gets through 5 pics with the Browns taking Berkeley with our 4th. Quarterback and running back in one Fell Swoop sounds good to me.
Frankly I think Rosen is probably the best of the quarterbacks but I too worried about his attitude.
WSS
Frankly I think Rosen is probably the best of the quarterbacks but I too worried about his attitude.
WSS
Bingo, I'd pass on him. Maybe someone offers a Herschel Walker load of picks to Dorsey and he takes it (I do hate trade downs, for the record).
Hey, the Browns did do a decent job last year of not tipping their hand on Garrett. I think these rumors are a great PR thing for the NFL Draft, nothing else.
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I'm sure Cal will be along to offer the appropriate handy J to Mr. Kiper.
edit: Let me be clear about two things. First - I realize Kiper isn't necessarily projecting talent so much as he's projecting Dorsey and the Browns own stupidity and where players will land. Second - I'm sure Cal will make it an extra special angry handy J.
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Dak would have been our QB replacing the errant JM, Henry would have been our big back in the redzone that we specialize in screwing up, Foster our best LB and Tyler Lockett would be returning KO/Punts and playing slot.
Plus I'd keep Garrett.
We would not have had Coleman, Kessler, or Hogan.
And in 2018 we damn sure would not be picking Allen, especially #1 overall. Maybe 7th round at best, but only if he can kick.
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That's not true. His mock would be more accurate than Steve's. And mine. And on average anyone else's here. They have more insider knowledge than us. Projected longer. Etc
I listen to the podcast him and McShay do. They hate making mocks, especially this far out. They put more stock in their big board and saying they had 36 of the first 40 players picked projected to be picked, though not necessarily in the right spot.
Well, right....Again....I think that I ...and maybe you, could do about as accurate a job at doing a mock draft as they do.....if we were armed with the information they have. The key for them is that they compiled the information.
I would expect them to hate doing mock drafts...trying to predict what unpredictable NFL teams may do. They like to say: Here are the prospect rankings....in reality...NFL teams should just draft based on my rankings...combined perhaps with a recognition of team needs.
And you know...that is basically what WE do here with our annual mock draft. I don't know about you or others but I will take, say, a couple of the draft prospect ranking sites...like Kiper/McShay...or CBS or Walter etc. And I will print those out and also look up sites about what the Browns need (or have an idea of my own what they need)....and go on that, essentially trying to take the best player available at that position or those positions that the services say are available.
I mean...honestly....lets face it....you and I COULD have done better drafting players a few of these years than the Browns FO had done.
Fair to say?
If I were drafting...we may have had Khalil Mack here. Or Sammy Watkins. Maybe Bosa or Wentz or Elliott.
Well, right....Again....I think that I ...and maybe you, could do about as accurate a job at doing a mock draft as they do.....if we were armed with the information they have. The key for them is that they compiled the information.
I would expect them to hate doing mock drafts...trying to predict what unpredictable NFL teams may do. They like to say: Here are the prospect rankings....in reality...NFL teams should just draft based on my rankings...combined perhaps with a recognition of team needs.
And you know...that is basically what WE do here with our annual mock draft. I don't know about you or others but I will take, say, a couple of the draft prospect ranking sites...like Kiper/McShay...or CBS or Walter etc. And I will print those out and also look up sites about what the Browns need (or have an idea of my own what they need)....and go on that, essentially trying to take the best player available at that position or those positions that the services say are available.
I mean...honestly....lets face it....you and I COULD have done better drafting players a few of these years than the Browns FO had done.
Fair to say?
If I were drafting...we may have had Khalil Mack here. Or Sammy Watkins. Maybe Bosa or Wentz or Elliott.
Right... Because in hindsight everyone could have drafted the best players...
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Well, right....Again....I think that I ...and maybe you, could do about as accurate a job at doing a mock draft as they do.....if we were armed with the information they have. The key for them is that they compiled the information.
I would expect them to hate doing mock drafts...trying to predict what unpredictable NFL teams may do. They like to say: Here are the prospect rankings....in reality...NFL teams should just draft based on my rankings...combined perhaps with a recognition of team needs.
And you know...that is basically what WE do here with our annual mock draft. I don't know about you or others but I will take, say, a couple of the draft prospect ranking sites...like Kiper/McShay...or CBS or Walter etc. And I will print those out and also look up sites about what the Browns need (or have an idea of my own what they need)....and go on that, essentially trying to take the best player available at that position or those positions that the services say are available.
I mean...honestly....lets face it....you and I COULD have done better drafting players a few of these years than the Browns FO had done.
Fair to say?
If I were drafting...we may have had Khalil Mack here. Or Sammy Watkins. Maybe Bosa or Wentz or Elliott.
Right... Because in hindsight everyone could have drafted the best players...
Right... Because in hindsight everyone could have drafted the best players...
Some of these were not hindsight for me. I was in Camp Mack and Camp Bosa at the time. You damn well know that's true.
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Josh Allen? Really?
Yes it's one of those bullshyt ESPN things that makes you join to read the whole thing but number one was surprising enough.
I know Cal loves him some Josh Allen. If he had Rosen or Darnold's accuracy, he'd be a slam dunk #1 overall. Unfortunately, Mel has overlooked at this point in time Allen doesn't- and I have doubts he ever will.
And to mock Mel- I will never forget this one... "mmmmuuuusssstttt draft Hart Lee Dykes". first round pick, shades of Corey Coleman.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DykeHa00.htm
I know Cal loves him some Josh Allen. If he had Rosen or Darnold's accuracy, he'd be a slam dunk #1 overall. Unfortunately, Mel has overlooked at this point in time Allen doesn't- and I have doubts he ever will.
And to mock Mel- I will never forget this one... "mmmmuuuusssstttt draft Hart Lee Dykes". first round pick, shades of Corey Coleman.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DykeHa00.htm
I have the same concerns you do about Allen, how much of his accuracy issues are him versus the receivers he has and the protection he gets. If his 56% is what it really is, we should pass.
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Josh Allen? Really?
Yes it's one of those bullshyt ESPN things that makes you join to read the whole thing but number one was surprising enough.
Josh Allen? Really?
He DID say that it's VERY early in the process.
The senior bowl could change Mel's draft board. The Combine. Free Agency could theoretically take QB right off our draft board. And even Joe Thomas could put a dent in the board.
BTW, I feel pretty sure that JT will let the Browns know his intentions before FA.
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Josh Allen? Really?
He DID say that it's VERY early in the process.
The senior bowl could change Mel's draft board. The Combine. Free Agency could theoretically take QB right off our draft board. And even Joe Thomas could put a dent in the board.
BTW, I feel pretty sure that JT will let the Browns know his intentions before FA.
He DID say that it's VERY early in the process.
The senior bowl could change Mel's draft board. The Combine. Free Agency could theoretically take QB right off our draft board. And even Joe Thomas could put a dent in the board.
BTW, I feel pretty sure that JT will let the Browns know his intentions before FA.
as i said in a different thread I believe JT will finish out his contract Unless his back and knee tell him otherwise
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as most players on this team, Joe likes playing for Hue, Hue respects Joe's career. Hue's contract thru 19,JT thur 18. JT has played with bad knee awhile, bad back, is kinda new, but he's played through that also. Joe's down 10 lbs,but I also say he try's to play to get Hue & team/town off 0 wins..Joe deserves to finish his career on his Terms..This Town can't & won't fault him on that.
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as most players on this team, Joe likes playing for Hue, Hue respects Joe's career. Hue's contract thru 19,JT thur 18. JT has played with bad knee awhile, bad back, is kinda new, but he's played through that also. Joe's down 10 lbs,but I also say he try's to play to get Hue & team/town off 0 wins..Joe deserves to finish his career on his Terms..This Town can't & won't fault him on that.
as most players on this team, Joe likes playing for Hue, Hue respects Joe's career. Hue's contract thru 19,JT thur 18. JT has played with bad knee awhile, bad back, is kinda new, but he's played through that also. Joe's down 10 lbs,but I also say he try's to play to get Hue & team/town off 0 wins..Joe deserves to finish his career on his Terms..This Town can't & won't fault him on that.
Just to add, listening to Red Zone tonight, Dieken said Joe's knee is feeling much better. He didn't get beat up for the entire season- we'll see what he decides to do...
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Mel Kiper blows. He knows nothing about which team is taking which player, as has been proven by reviewing his past "prognostications".
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It is so much fun doing mock drafts and going back to look at old mock drafts and better yet the old actual draft picks.......all the oooohs and aaaahhhhs and we coulda' hads.
Kind of like if I only played 224 and 7056 I would have hit the lottery tonight!
How many days until April 26?
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Mel Kiper blows. He knows nothing about which team is taking which player, as has been proven by reviewing his past "prognostications".
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I know Cal loves him some Josh Allen. If he had Rosen or Darnold's accuracy, he'd be a slam dunk #1 overall. Unfortunately, Mel has overlooked at this point in time Allen doesn't- and I have doubts he ever will.
And to mock Mel- I will never forget this one... "mmmmuuuusssstttt draft Hart Lee Dykes". first round pick, shades of Corey Coleman.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DykeHa00.htm
I have the same concerns you do about Allen, how much of his accuracy issues are him versus the receivers he has and the protection he gets. If his 56% is what it really is, we should pass.
I have the same concerns you do about Allen, how much of his accuracy issues are him versus the receivers he has and the protection he gets. If his 56% is what it really is, we should pass.
Explain how Allen is not just a Kizer clone.....since for both of them they appear to be big strong athletic guys.....who have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn door...according to some reports about Allen. And what about the penchant for committing turnovers? That...worse than his accuracy issues...is the downfall of Kizer.
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I have the same concerns you do about Allen, how much of his accuracy issues are him versus the receivers he has and the protection he gets. If his 56% is what it really is, we should pass.
Explain how Allen is not just a Kizer clone.....since for both of them they appear to be big strong athletic guys.....who have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn door...according to some reports about Allen. And what about the penchant for committing turnovers? That...worse than his accuracy issues...is the downfall of Kizer.
Explain how Allen is not just a Kizer clone.....since for both of them they appear to be big strong athletic guys.....who have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn door...according to some reports about Allen. And what about the penchant for committing turnovers? That...worse than his accuracy issues...is the downfall of Kizer.
After watching 4 complete games of Allen- that's exactly my opinion Gip, he is a Kizer clone. That Mel would put him #1 on his big board means he's projecting (on a rumor he heard) Dorsey is going to be a Dork-sey, and draft him. Said it before- an inaccurate cannon is worthless in the pros...
As a counterpoint to Kiper...
I likee Jeremiah's first mock draft much better, and screw Walter Football- he has us totally passing on a QB in the 2018 draft- he's getting blasted out of the water for that level of ignorance....
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I have the same concerns you do about Allen, how much of his accuracy issues are him versus the receivers he has and the protection he gets. If his 56% is what it really is, we should pass.
Explain how Allen is not just a Kizer clone.....since for both of them they appear to be big strong athletic guys.....who have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn door...according to some reports about Allen. And what about the penchant for committing turnovers? That...worse than his accuracy issues...is the downfall of Kizer.
Explain how Allen is not just a Kizer clone.....since for both of them they appear to be big strong athletic guys.....who have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn door...according to some reports about Allen. And what about the penchant for committing turnovers? That...worse than his accuracy issues...is the downfall of Kizer.
Allen played in a pro-style offense, under an excellent coach.
Allen raised the level of competitiveness of his offense, his entire team, really, with his play
Allen plays with a chip on his shoulder, Kizer has sleepy eyes like Weeden.
Allen has never been benched for not getting it.
Allen inspired his entire college, home town, fans, his entire team.
Allen has outstanding leadership/intangibles - his coach loves him.
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Kizer never played in a pro-style offense.
Kizer played with an excellent cast of players around him for the competition they faced.
Kizer was benched because he wasn't getting it.
Kizer had a college coach who is not an excellent coach.
Kizer didn't inspire his entire team, college or town - he was benched.
Kizer hasn't shown outstanding leadership/intangibles - his coach benched him and criticized him.
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1) Who’s No. 1?
There’s no clear answer here. Darnold threw 13 interceptions, fumbled the ball 11 times and his completion percentage dipped by 4.1 percent year over year. Allen wilted against decent competition, throwing three interceptions and no touchdowns against Iowa and Oregon. Rosen had 26 touchdown passes, but UCLA sputtered to a 6-7 record on the season. (Rosen missed the blowout loss at Utah with a concussion). Nobody has distanced themselves from one another.
“I can see this thing playing out where any of the top three guys assert themselves as No. 1 at the NFL [scouting] combine,” said an area scout. “At the end of the season, Darnold and Rosen will have a chance to do it on a big stage. But if Allen was No. 1 [in April], I wouldn’t be shocked. They all have things they need to work on.”
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Explain how Allen is not just a Kizer clone.....since for both of them they appear to be big strong athletic guys.....who have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn door...according to some reports about Allen. And what about the penchant for committing turnovers? That...worse than his accuracy issues...is the downfall of Kizer.
Allen played in a pro-style offense, under an excellent coach.
Allen raised the level of competitiveness of his offense, his entire team, really, with his play
Allen plays with a chip on his shoulder, Kizer has sleepy eyes like Weeden.
Allen has never been benched for not getting it.
Allen inspired his entire college, home town, fans, his entire team.
Allen has outstanding leadership/intangibles - his coach loves him.
**********************************************
Kizer never played in a pro-style offense.
Kizer played with an excellent cast of players around him for the competition they faced.
Kizer was benched because he wasn't getting it.
Kizer had a college coach who is not an excellent coach.
Kizer didn't inspire his entire team, college or town - he was benched.
Kizer hasn't shown outstanding leadership/intangibles - his coach benched him and criticized him.
**************************************************
1) Who’s No. 1?
There’s no clear answer here. Darnold threw 13 interceptions, fumbled the ball 11 times and his completion percentage dipped by 4.1 percent year over year. Allen wilted against decent competition, throwing three interceptions and no touchdowns against Iowa and Oregon. Rosen had 26 touchdown passes, but UCLA sputtered to a 6-7 record on the season. (Rosen missed the blowout loss at Utah with a concussion). Nobody has distanced themselves from one another.
“I can see this thing playing out where any of the top three guys assert themselves as No. 1 at the NFL [scouting] combine,” said an area scout. “At the end of the season, Darnold and Rosen will have a chance to do it on a big stage. But if Allen was No. 1 [in April], I wouldn’t be shocked. They all have things they need to work on.”
Allen played in a pro-style offense, under an excellent coach.
Allen raised the level of competitiveness of his offense, his entire team, really, with his play
Allen plays with a chip on his shoulder, Kizer has sleepy eyes like Weeden.
Allen has never been benched for not getting it.
Allen inspired his entire college, home town, fans, his entire team.
Allen has outstanding leadership/intangibles - his coach loves him.
**********************************************
Kizer never played in a pro-style offense.
Kizer played with an excellent cast of players around him for the competition they faced.
Kizer was benched because he wasn't getting it.
Kizer had a college coach who is not an excellent coach. Kizer's coach also said he wasn't ready for the NFL and Sashi was too dumb to listen.
Kizer didn't inspire his entire team, college or town - he was benched.
Kizer hasn't shown outstanding leadership/intangibles - his coach benched him and criticized him.
**************************************************
1) Who’s No. 1?
There’s no clear answer here. Darnold threw 13 interceptions, fumbled the ball 11 times and his completion percentage dipped by 4.1 percent year over year. Allen wilted against decent competition, throwing three interceptions and no touchdowns against Iowa and Oregon. Rosen had 26 touchdown passes, but UCLA sputtered to a 6-7 record on the season. (Rosen missed the blowout loss at Utah with a concussion). Nobody has distanced themselves from one another.
“I can see this thing playing out where any of the top three guys assert themselves as No. 1 at the NFL [scouting] combine,” said an area scout. “At the end of the season, Darnold and Rosen will have a chance to do it on a big stage. But if Allen was No. 1 [in April], I wouldn’t be shocked. They all have things they need to work on.”
All the above stuff on Allen is nice Cal- but none of it matters if.
I'm not ruling out Allen as a good qb- but again, you conveniently ignore the one glaring similarity Allen and Kizer share- they're inaccurate. Josh isn't in the same league in the accuracy department as that other Josh, Darnold, or Mayfield. Especially Baker- he's crazy accurate.
PS other than playing in a pro style offense the exact same could be said about Mayfield- and he played a lot higher competition than Mountain West. Except you're so hung up on character issues, you can't see the forest because of the trees.
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