P5 or not P5 That is the question
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Issues and discussions are being had about some of these QB prospects...and their level of competition, the presumption being that any QB from a non P5 school should perhaps be looked at askance give their level of competition.
So...should we expect a P5 level QB to be superior than a non P5 guy? I don't honestly know the answer to that. All I can do is look at various points of data.
Here is one...very basic...data point. Hall of Fame QBs. Which have been from P5 schools...which are not. Note...for this purpose...because it is also designated that way....Independents Notre Dame and BYU are classified as part of the P5 programs.
P5: 27 QBs come from P5 schools:
UCLA: Aikman and Waterfield
Kentucky: Blanda
Purdue: Dawson and Griese
Stanford: Elway
Oregon: Fouts and Van Brocklin
Northwestern: Otto Graham and Paddy Driscoll
Duke: Jurgenson and Clarence Parker
Miami, Fla. Jim Kelly
Texas: Bobby Layne
Pitt: Marino
Notre Dame: Montana
Washington: Moon
Alabama: Starr, Stabler, Namath
Georgia: Tarkenton
LSU: Tittle
Louisville: Unitas
BYU: Young
Wisconsin: Herber
Michigan: Friedman
TCU: Sammy Baugh
NON P5 QBs: there are 7 of these:
La. Tech: Bradshaw
So. Miss: Favre
Navy: Staubach
Norther Iowa: Warner
Columbia: Luckman
Washington of St. Louis: Jimmy Conzelman
Colorado College: Earl Clark (this is not the same as Colorado Univ.)
So...the count is 27 P5 vs. 7 Non P5 So, by this measure.....P5 QBs have almost a 5-1 edge on Non P5 QBs. 20.5% are non P5.
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How about another, totally unscientific measure: Super Bowl Wins by a starting QB:
P5....QBs from these schools (again, includes ND and BYU) have 37 SB wins:
Notre Dame: 5....Montana and Theisman
Michigan: 5....Brady
Alabama: 4...Starr, Namath, Stabler
Purdue: 4....Dawson, Griese, Brees
Stanford: 4....Plunkett and Elway
UCLA: 3...Aikman
Tennessee: 2...Peyton
Ole Miss: 2....Eli
BYU: 2 Young and McMahon
Cal: 1: Rodgers
FSU: 1....Brad Johnson
Louisville: 1...Unitas
Washington St.: 1....Rypien
West Virg. 1....Hostetler
Wisconsin: 1....Wilson
NON P5 Super Bowl winning QBs: have 14 SB wins.
La. Tech. 4....Bradshaw
Miami, Oh...2 Ben R.
Navy: 2...Staubach
Delaware: 1....Flacco
Fresno St: 1....Dilfer
Grambling: 1....Doug Williams
Morehead st: 1.. Phil Simms
No. Iowa: 1...Kurt Warner
So. Miss.: 1...Favre.
So...there were 37 Super Bowl wins by P5 QBs...and 14 by Non P5 QBs.
This is actually a little better ratio than the HOF numbers:
Non P5 HOF QBs: 20.5%
Non P5 Super Bowl winning QBs: 27.4%
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One Final Measurement Stat: the PFR Career Average stat. Notes on this: It is supposed to measure career total production....so longevity counts. Also.....it is more skewed to more modern QBs because the PFR was not applied before like the late 50s or so. So you not see the likes of Graham, Baugh, Luckman on here.
What I have done is list simply those QBs that appear in the Top 150 players in Career Average. I will note first there overall player ranking, school, name:
P5 QBs who are tops in Career Production Average:
1. Tennessee: Peyton Manning
2. Michigan: Tom Brady
5. Purdue: Drew Brees
6. Georgia: Fran Tarkenton
10. Pitt: Dan Marino
12. Stanford: John Elway
19. NC State: Phillip Rivers
T21. BYU: Steve Young
26. Washington: Warren Moon
29. Notre Dame: Joe Montana
33. Oregon: Dan Fouts
45. Cal: Aaron Rodgers
T54. Ole Miss: Eli Manning
T54. Boston College: Matt Ryan
72. Louisville: Johnny Unitas
74. Purdue: Len Dawson
77. Kansas: John Hadl
T78. USC: Carson Palmer
T78. Miami Fla: Vinny Testaverde
T88. Purdue: Bob Griese
T88. Duke: Sonny Jurgenson
T93. Syracuse: Donovan McNabb
103. Washington State: Drew Bledsoe
T108. Maryland: Boomer Esiason
126: Miami Fla: Jim Kelly
129. NC State: Roman Gabriel
138: Stanford: John Brodie
NON P5 QBs in the Top 150 of PFR Career Average:
3. So. Miss. Brett Favre
T21. Miami, Oh. Ben R.
34. Augustana College: Ken Anderson
T93: Milton College: Dave Kreig
T103: La. Tech: Terry Bradshaw\
T108: So. Illinois: Jim Hart
145. Navy: Roger Staubach
Bizarrely....these numbers come out exactly the same way as the HOF QB numbers do...even though...as I said, this stat is more geared to more recent times:
There are 27 P5 QBs that appear in the PFR CA Top 150...and there are 7 Non P5 school QBs that appear there. (only Favre, Stauback and Bradshaw are the same here)
To repeat those percentages: 20.5% of PFR Top 150 QBs are from Non P5 schools.
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Zombo said:
Is BYU considered Power 5?
Zombo
I believe it is....as I said, like Notre Dame. I will check. Here is some info:
BYU[edit]
Main article: 2010–13 Mountain West Conference realignment: BYUDuring the conference realignment that saw the university choose football independence in August 2010, some saw BYU as a potential future "Notre Dame of the West". Both are prominent faith-based schools; Notre Dame is arguably the best-known Catholic university in the U.S., while BYU is the flagship university of the LDS Church. The 1984 team's national championship is the most recent by a university that is not a current member of the College Football Playoff coalition.
BYU was earning less than $2 million a year through its contract with The MTN, the now-defunct TV network of the Mountain West Conference. BYU has its own cable channel,[13] but had a very restrictive contract which did not allow BYU to broadcast its own football games.[14] The new contract with ESPN will pay BYU an estimated $800,000 to $1.2 million per home game,[15] and allow for greater freedom with its own channel.
So...I don't know. I think if they didn't want to be known as "The Notre Dame of the West"...they could join one of the P5.....either the Pac 12 or the Big 12.
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........BYU was earning less than $2 million a year through its contract with The MTN, the now-defunct TV network of the Mountain West Conference. BYU has its own cable channel,[13] but had a very restrictive contract which did not allow BYU to broadcast its own football games.[14] The new contract with ESPN will pay BYU an estimated $800,000 to $1.2 million per home game,[15] and allow for greater freedom with its own channel.......
When you talk about P5 or elite college football this is the underlying driving force and has been for awhile now.
It costs money to compete now in facilities, salaries and all the other amenities, it's not just the old ABC and Keith Jackson anymore, did you ever picture the B1G on FOX?
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It costs money to compete now in facilities, salaries and all the other amenities, it's not just the old ABC and Keith Jackson anymore, did you ever picture the B1G on FOX?
Fox didn't exist as a network until the mid 90s. But yes, certainly you could have pictured the Big Ten on any of the networks. Why not?
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It costs money to compete now in facilities, salaries and all the other amenities, it's not just the old ABC and Keith Jackson anymore, did you ever picture the B1G on FOX?
Fox didn't exist as a network until the mid 90s. But yes, certainly you could have pictured the Big Ten on any of the networks. Why not?
It costs money to compete now in facilities, salaries and all the other amenities, it's not just the old ABC and Keith Jackson anymore, did you ever picture the B1G on FOX?
Fox didn't exist as a network until the mid 90s. But yes, certainly you could have pictured the Big Ten on any of the networks. Why not?
I always pictured the old guard BIG TEN as in the ABC/ESPN family forever......but I guess everything has it's price.
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I'm still freaked when I have to tune to CBS for AFC games...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'm still freaked when I have to tune to CBS for AFC games...
And FOX didn't even have a real sports division when they got the NFL deal.....and then key CBS talent came over to FOX. NBC later ended up out of professional football!
Who knew?
.......To the surprise and shock of many in the sports and media industries, on December 17, 1993, the NFL selected the bid offered by Fox, in the process stripping CBS of football for the first time since 1956.......
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Gip,
nice thread. Really. You are football intense for sure. God bless ya man.
For me, p5 non p5 doesn't matter. The glaring problem the Browns have is that they continue to purposely not participate in drafting the best playmakers. Sorry, but having 2 #1 picks and coming away with Coleman and Garrett? The Browns have had more high 1st round picks than anyone, for 18 years now, no NFL team has gotten less out of their draft.
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Obviously, BYU doesn't have a conference. Technically they do however play a schedule that, if gone undefeated through, would put them in the national championship, so I suppose they are P5.
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