Just Remember WHAT QBs Won in Cleveland:
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The reason I think Quinn will be the RIGHT choice for us is because of our franchise history. Kosar NEVER had a cannon BUT he could drill an accurate pass where it needed to be. Consequently, he competed in THREE AFC Championships after he led his college team to a National Championship against all odds. Every time Kosar LOST in a Championship Game - the weather here and in Denver wasn't conducive to the 50 yard bomb so you never SAW it from him or Elway. That said, the TYPE of QB Kosar lost to was a guy with a brain large enough for a Stanford Education equipped with the vision & athleticism for emergency improvisations. That's ALL Elway did on the drive was pull plays out of his dumpster. If he wasn't accurate, smart or poised - he does what DA did in Cincy and makes the fatal mistake.
NEXT, Brian Sipe is a guy that wasn't supposed to make 1 single NFL franchise while Mike Phipps was deemed the QB with the arm ANY NFL offense should go vertical game with. GREAT concept but the midwest has a phenomenon we call WEATHER and Lake Erie brings the wind chills under zero, the mudd, ice and slippery footballs. As a result Sipe was a 13th round QB that won the HEARTS of his teammates and fans to bring us our most exciting football in the form of the Cardiac Kids. One more time, the TYPE of QB that got the victory over us here in the post season that year was ANOTHER guy with a Stanford mind. There was NO such thing as passes deeper than 25 yards on a day the winds were swirling so ferociously off lake Erie that the thermometer was reading 36 degrees below zero. Jim Plunkett would go on to WIN a Superbowl for the RIGHT Head Coach AFTER he was deemed an epic bust playing in the wrong environment. Did Peyton Manning ever look better on a New England January day?
Before that, was a former Northwestern RB Cleveland fans came to know and appreciate as Otto Graham. NOBODY really knew if there was a cannon ready to launch 50 yard bombs in a new position at a more complex level. What they did understand was there was a SMART intelligent kid from the midwest that was well known for BIG plays in less than admirable weather conditions. Joe Montana BEFORE Joe Montana if you will. No fastballs required. Cleveland participated in 10 straight Pro Football Championship Title Games from 1946 through 1955. The Boston Celtics of Pro Football and Otto Graham was our Bill Russell impact. Russell wasn't as pretty as OTHER guys but he had the RIGHT stuff as did Graham. This TYPE of special is UNIQUE because I spend MORE time appreciatiing how this person exceeded the expectations so consistently because they didn't have ONE feature everyone else deemed so necessary. Did Wilt Chamberlain EVER beat Russell? Go figure!
For similarity purposes, Joe Montana had alot of the SAME questions surrounding his verticality and arm strength as Quinn has to listen to. Since they both dramaticaly changed winning percentages in South Bend's region of the Midwest - he's worth mentioning. Charlie Weis would remind those in question that there's Notre Dame with Quinn and Notre Dame SINCE Quinn left campus. The moral of that story is if you want to WIN you can only choose QUINN.
Shep's written some compelling stuff in that thread about what Mangini wants in the huddle and leading the offense; and Zombo added an excellent 7 minute video showcasing what Quinn CAN do when he has the RIGHT coach. The sad truth is if a guy like Joe Montana ever had to go play for a Head Coach like RAC - the Hall of Fame ending would have taken a back seat to ARM Strength. Arm strength has nothing to do with improvising under pressure, making the right reads and showcasing the right stuff where it wins over teammates.
If you remember Sipe, Kosar and Graham, you remember the poise, confidence and smarts to come back and erase deficits for victories. You also remember the consistent precision that made the best winning percentages in team history possible. When Sipe averaged over 4000 yards passing in 3 consecutive seasons it was back in an era BEFORE they handcuffed DBs on the touchy feely. I firmly believe IF DA possessed any of these qualities, I wouldn't have seen 4 INTs in Cincy on a day his backers would excuse it all to WEATHER. Strong arm meant what? So much for possessing the brainpower, confidence and accuracy to complete the underneathe stuff given to him. That will bury post season hopes as it buried our's. What was the difference between THAT game and DA's coming out party? WEATHER, time of year and enough validated film on how to frustrate an inaccurate QB.
History tells me I've seen enough of the Derek Anderson story to know how it ends. Getting excited about the sequel seems about as uplifting as re-watching the Old Yeller movie. We just added the right young DAWG from the right pedigree. Who brings home a dawg and refuses to potty train it? RAC on crack - that's who. Those days are over. I welcome the Quinn era as a more intelligent face on the franchise. If you made it this far, thanks for reading!!!
- Tom F.
History tells me I've seen enough of the Derek Anderson story to know how it ends. Getting excited about the sequel seems about as uplifting as re-watching the Old Yeller movie. We just added the right young DAWG from the right pedigree. Who brings home a dawg and refuses to potty train it? RAC on crack - that's who. Those days are over. I welcome the Quinn era as a more intelligent face on the franchise. If you made it this far, thanks for reading!!!
- Tom F.
i figured some of you boys have been getting the shakes because it has been a while since you've read something negative about DA. i'm disappointed that it was Tom that had to provide the fix. Open those tourniquets and let the good feelings flow!
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History tells me I've seen enough of the Derek Anderson story to know how it ends. Getting excited about the sequel seems about as uplifting as re-watching the Old Yeller movie. We just added the right young DAWG from the right pedigree. Who brings home a dawg and refuses to potty train it? RAC on crack - that's who. Those days are over. I welcome the Quinn era as a more intelligent face on the franchise. If you made it this far, thanks for reading!!!
- Tom F.
i figured some of you boys have been getting the shakes because it has been a while since you've read something negative about DA. i'm disappointed that it was Tom that had to provide the fix. Open those tourniquets and let the good feelings flow!
i figured some of you boys have been getting the shakes because it has been a while since you've read something negative about DA. i'm disappointed that it was Tom that had to provide the fix. Open those tourniquets and let the good feelings flow!
LOL! Couldn't resist - we've been on pause for quite some time. His Tampa nightmare in 06 showed me a 3 game regression. There was a brief fast forward in 2007 until we hit the Cincy pause with the same 4 INT freeze. We've stayed there in 2008 and all of a sudden it's 2009 Ed.
We've got 2 choices:
1) Look ahead - and TRY to get excited about the 09 season
2) Stay stuck on pause - and see who can come up with better excuses than Lummy for all the inaccuracies every week.
- Tom F.
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i figured some of you boys have been getting the shakes because it has been a while since you've read something negative about DA. i'm disappointed that it was Tom that had to provide the fix. Open those tourniquets and let the good feelings flow!
LOL! Couldn't resist - we've been on pause for quite some time. His Tampa nightmare in 06 showed me a 3 game regression. There was a brief fast forward in 2007 until we hit the Cincy pause with the same 4 INT freeze. We've stayed there in 2008 and all of a sudden it's 2009 Ed.
We've got 2 choices:
1) Look ahead - and TRY to get excited about the 09 season
2) Stay stuck on pause - and see who can come up with better excuses than Lummy for all the inaccuracies every week.
- Tom F.
LOL! Couldn't resist - we've been on pause for quite some time. His Tampa nightmare in 06 showed me a 3 game regression. There was a brief fast forward in 2007 until we hit the Cincy pause with the same 4 INT freeze. We've stayed there in 2008 and all of a sudden it's 2009 Ed.
Every QB worth a starting job in the NFL has a 4 pick game now and then.
Tom Brady himself has FIVE 4-pick games in his career.
Ben Rot, Eli, Peyton. They all have multiple 4+ pick games on the record. Peyton of course with the 6-pack in 2007.
INTs or not, coaches want to see first downs and TDs. And as you've seen, the guys who keep tossing TDs get on the field.
Your boy Quinnie on the other hand....well he got yanked for general ineffectiveness. i.e. there wasn't a chance in hell that he coulda thrown a ball into the vicinity of the end zone. And that 49% career completion percentage ain't gonna get it done when you're supposed forte is the dink and dunk.
As to your original rant, WINS......well guess who has the best win % since Kosar?
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Brady Quinn will be the next big winning QB in Cleveland and it will start this season. I expect Quinn to be a starter here for at least 8-10 years and win multiple Super Bowl Trophies. By the time he leaves town, he will be on the same level as Otto Graham.
Book it
Is a pig's ass pork? -
LOL! Couldn't resist - we've been on pause for quite some time. His Tampa nightmare in 06 showed me a 3 game regression. There was a brief fast forward in 2007 until we hit the Cincy pause with the same 4 INT freeze. We've stayed there in 2008 and all of a sudden it's 2009 Ed.
Every QB worth a starting job in the NFL has a 4 pick game now and then.
Tom Brady himself has FIVE 4-pick games in his career.
Ben Rot, Eli, Peyton. They all have multiple 4+ pick games on the record. Peyton of course with the 6-pack in 2007.
INTs or not, coaches want to see first downs and TDs. And as you've seen, the guys who keep tossing TDs get on the field.
Your boy Quinnie on the other hand....well he got yanked for general ineffectiveness. i.e. there wasn't a chance in hell that he coulda thrown a ball into the vicinity of the end zone. And that 49% career completion percentage ain't gonna get it done when you're supposed forte is the dink and dunk.
As to your original rant, WINS......well guess who has the best win % since Kosar?
And as you've seen, the guys who keep tossing TDs get on the field.
Keeping this comment in mind... I took a look at the career TD percentage of every QB mentioned in the original post.
Otto Graham, who was assigned the phrase of "Bill Russel impact" had a very impressive 6.6% career TD/attempt percentage. Wow!
Peyton Manning sits at 5.6, Joe Montana at 5.1. VERY GOOD.
From there we see Anderson at 4.6, Sipe at 4.5, Plunkett at 4.4, Elway at 4.1, Kosar at 3.7 Phipps at 3.1 and Quinn at 2.1%.
What does it all mean?
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@inspecta said:
Are you serious?Those are the actual numbers.
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Brady Quinn will be the next big winning QB in Cleveland and it will start this season. I expect Quinn to be a starter here for at least 8-10 years and win multiple Super Bowl Trophies. By the time he leaves town, he will be on the same level as Otto Graham.
Book it
Brady Quinn will be the next big winning QB in Cleveland and it will start this season. I expect Quinn to be a starter here for at least 8-10 years and win multiple Super Bowl Trophies. By the time he leaves town, he will be on the same level as Otto Graham.
Book it
wake up riff, you're sleep-typing again.
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@inspecta said:
I was actually being sarcastic.Quinn has started 3 games, you can't infer anything from his numbers, yet.
Anderson got fat on a weak ass schedule in 07. I'm not sure where you got those stats from, but do they have his percentage just from last year? That might be a more telling statistic. Sure the average is pretty good, but again we're talking about a guy who feasted on a bunch of winless and sub .500 teams. When we played real tough competition this year, he folded like a lawn chair.
So why didn't Quinn get fat on his weak ass schedule in '08?
He can't get fat against anybody but Navy apparently.
BTW, Anderson's TD% was 3.2 last year vs top competition, substantially higher than Quinn's vs weak competition.
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@inspecta said:
...Quinn has started 3 games, you can't infer anything from his numbers, yet...Bingo, bingo, bingo. Stats101.
We need the pre-season to start as we just don't have enough to do around here.
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@inspecta said:
Anderson shit the bed against top competition.what you don't even bother with the Giants caveat anymore? It hurts you to think one of the greatest games in franchise history was engineered last yr by DA, doesn't it?
And FYI, Quinn shit the bed against ALL competition.
Denver included.
We all know DA would have lit Denver up and posted the easy W.
And Buffalo with Trent Edwards tossing 3 first half picks in his own territory? Yeah let's take a wild guess and say Anderson wouldn't have settled for a total of 6 points.
Houston? I seem to remember a 10 point victory with DA at the helm. Not the same story when BQ went in was it?
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Just perused an article predicting the Browns season if Quinn were QB.
Quinn passes for 2,100 yards and 12 TDs. Total. For a whole season.
It also predicts that with BQ at the helm the Browns pull off a 3-13 record in '09.
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@inspecta said:
DA only shows up when there are 0 expectations on him.He's got 13 Ws as a starter and another one in relief.
in a good number of those wins, the browns were favored and expected to win. So he took care of business.
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@inspecta said:
Anderson shit the bed against top competition.what you don't even bother with the Giants caveat anymore? It hurts you to think one of the greatest games in franchise history was engineered last yr by DA, doesn't it?
And FYI, Quinn shit the bed against ALL competition.
Denver included.
We all know DA would have lit Denver up and posted the easy W.
And Buffalo with Trent Edwards tossing 3 first half picks in his own territory? Yeah let's take a wild guess and say Anderson wouldn't have settled for a total of 6 points.
Houston? I seem to remember a 10 point victory with DA at the helm. Not the same story when BQ went in was it?
what you don't even bother with the Giants caveat anymore? It hurts you to think one of the greatest games in franchise history was engineered last yr by DA, doesn't it?
Like I said, we're in the AFC and Dumb Ass hasn't beaten 1 AFC team with MORE than 8 wins in ANY game he has started. You can try like Hell to dream one up but you're gonna come up short like you always do.
In 06 - DA was 0-3 in his only 3 starts.
In 07 - DA beat ZERO AFC opponents that won MORE than 8 games
In 08 - DA beat ZERO AFC teams with MORE than 8 wins
Grand Total = Zero
Moral of the story: DA doesn't beat AFC teams thinking playoffs.
- Tom F.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
what you don't even bother with the Giants caveat anymore? It hurts you to think one of the greatest games in franchise history was engineered last yr by DA, doesn't it?
Like I said, we're in the AFC and Dumb Ass hasn't beaten 1 AFC team with MORE than 8 wins in ANY game he has started. You can try like Hell to dream one up but you're gonna come up short like you always do.
In 06 - DA was 0-3 in his only 3 starts.
In 07 - DA beat ZERO AFC opponents that won MORE than 8 games
In 08 - DA beat ZERO AFC teams with MORE than 8 wins
Grand Total = Zero
Moral of the story: DA doesn't beat AFC teams thinking playoffs.
- Tom F.
Moral of the story: DA doesn't beat AFC teams thinking playoffs.
- Tom F.
I think the 2007 Buffalo Bills would beg to differ....
And a moral of a related story: Brady Quinn doesn't beat anybody. Including the Detroit Lions.
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what you don't even bother with the Giants caveat anymore? It hurts you to think one of the greatest games in franchise history was engineered last yr by DA, doesn't it?
Like I said, we're in the AFC and Dumb Ass hasn't beaten 1 AFC team with MORE than 8 wins in ANY game he has started. You can try like Hell to dream one up but you're gonna come up short like you always do.
In 06 - DA was 0-3 in his only 3 starts.
In 07 - DA beat ZERO AFC opponents that won MORE than 8 games
In 08 - DA beat ZERO AFC teams with MORE than 8 wins
Grand Total = Zero
Moral of the story: DA doesn't beat AFC teams thinking playoffs.
- Tom F.
j
Like I said, we're in the AFC and Dumb Ass hasn't beaten 1 AFC team with MORE than 8 wins in ANY game he has started. You can try like Hell to dream one up but you're gonna come up short like you always do.
In 06 - DA was 0-3 in his only 3 starts.
In 07 - DA beat ZERO AFC opponents that won MORE than 8 games
In 08 - DA beat ZERO AFC teams with MORE than 8 wins
Grand Total = Zero
Moral of the story: DA doesn't beat AFC teams thinking playoffs.
- Tom F.
you forgot to mention that the Browns sucked assets as a team & only won 4 games without DA in that 3 year span.
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TITANIC - My Heart Will Go On - Celine Dion----sing it Celine, sing it.
Every night in my dreams
I see you, I feel you
That is how I know you go on.
Far across the distance
and spaces between us
You have come to show you go on.
Near, Far,
wherever you are,
I believe that the heart does go on.
Once more, you opened the door
And you're here in my heart,
and my heart will go on and on.
Love can touch us one time
and last for a lifetime
And never let go till we're gone.
Love was when I loved you,
one true time to hold on to
In my life we'll always go on.
Near, far,
wherever you are,
I believe that the heart does go on.
Once more, you opened the door
And you're here in my heart,
and my heart will go on and on.
You're here, there's nothing I fear
And I know that my heart will go on.
We'll stay, forever this way
You are safe in my heart
and my heart will go on and on.
Tell me you don't tear up a little every time you hear this.............
-
j
Like I said, we're in the AFC and Dumb Ass hasn't beaten 1 AFC team with MORE than 8 wins in ANY game he has started. You can try like Hell to dream one up but you're gonna come up short like you always do.
In 06 - DA was 0-3 in his only 3 starts.
In 07 - DA beat ZERO AFC opponents that won MORE than 8 games
In 08 - DA beat ZERO AFC teams with MORE than 8 wins
Grand Total = Zero
Moral of the story: DA doesn't beat AFC teams thinking playoffs.
- Tom F.
you forgot to mention that the Browns sucked assets as a team & only won 4 games without DA in that 3 year span.
j
you forgot to mention that the Browns sucked assets as a team & only won 4 games without DA in that 3 year span.
That's the Dial-an-excuse way of looking at it.
ANOTHER way of looking at it is somebody continued to throw a GOLDEN opportunity in the trash can over a 3 year period. The great ones don't look back on excuses - they talk about how much fun they had gettin it done. How else do you explain 0% interest in DA when we made him available to the other 31 teams?
I don't care WHERE Dr Kevorkian went to college - I just don't want him running our offense any more. Sorry!
- Tom F.
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Flugel,
I think you make a good point about the "intellect" of the players we have faced in the likes of Elway and Plunkett and Montana etc.
I gone through this recently with fairly high achieving son who just graduated. (though NOT an athlete). In searching for colleges we were looking at highly rated academic institutions. Stanford, Notre Dame, Northwestern which you mention are among the TOP 25 ACADEMIC institutions in America and rate right up there with the Ivy League schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc.), and the likes of MIT, Cal Tech, and some smaller profile (athletically) schools such as Williams, Smith, Amherst, Bowdoin, Grinnell, Pomona, Carleton, Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore, and a few Ohio schools like Oberlin, Kenyon,and Denison. (My son ended up choosing Kenyon though we looked at Notre Dame, Cornell, Oberlin).
The point being that you cannot underestimate the intellectual and academic requirements it takes to get accepted to these schools, and the likes of Stanford and Notre Dame, Duke etc. really do NOT make academic exceptions for athletes.
Sure, Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke etc. QBs can be busts in the NFL (see John Huarte and Rick Meier) but I believe they do start out with a certain advantage because of the quality of the education they received in college. Even Muck Fichigan is a top notch academic school, maybe having given the likes of Tom Brady certain advantages.
(and FYI, nearly all SEC schools are rated much poorer academically than Pac-10 or Big 10 or ACC schools...name a real quality SEC QB not named Manning in the NFL).
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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