Barkley at #1?
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They lost 31-0 ?
My bad, but that didn't make it any more of a nail biter.
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If Barkley is the for sure the best player and you are 1-31 last two years...you take him...end of story. You can get a QB at # 4. The argument that a RB hasn't went number 1 in 23 years doesn't matter. If Crowell leaves and you don't think Johnson is more than a change of pace back and a pass catcher out of the backfield then it makes sense. In the case of Barkley it seems his attitude is good...his college film is good...his combine numbers are good... Bo Jackson, Earl Campbell, O.J. Simpson were all number 1 overall picks. Ki Jana Carter would have been a player if he hadn't shredded his knee week 1 of the pre-season and never really looked the same. The running back can't go first overall statement is horse piss. Do you think he is the best TALENT in this draft? If he isn't hands down then don't select him...if he is then he goes number 1. I am not a scout, not a coach, not a GM so it really doesn't matter what the hell I think...I am just saying...
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For those of you saying no why? Is it because you are just against an RB at 1 or do you really think a QB solution has to be pick1??
Against a RB that high in the modern NFL especially when it's becoming more and more obvious you can find tremendous value and production past the 1st round now.
Love Zeke and watching him, but would you rather have a 5-6 year back as a top 5 pick or spend that pick on a position with more longevity while taking someone like... David Johnson in a later round? I lean towards the latter.
edit: I'm also of the belief Barkley is a combine freak only because I don't love what I see on tape.
Against a RB that high in the modern NFL especially when it's becoming more and more obvious you can find tremendous value and production past the 1st round now.
Love Zeke and watching him, but would you rather have a 5-6 year back as a top 5 pick or spend that pick on a position with more longevity while taking someone like... David Johnson in a later round? I lean towards the latter.
edit: I'm also of the belief Barkley is a combine freak only because I don't love what I see on tape.
Modern football varies. Some teams would like a guy that can do it all like Zeke, Bell and Gurley while others want to want to be more of a 2 man committee like Ingram and Kamara.
How much tape did you watch? The guy had 54 receptions for 632 yards and 3 TDs to mirror the hands you watched at the combines right? What sucks about that specifically? That's got modern NFL written all over it T. On top of that, he ran for 1271 yards on 217 carries for 5.9 yards per carry and 18 TDs in 2017 plus returning 2 kickoffs for TDs for 426 more yards. That looks like football player matching combine numbers to me in the sum of 23 TDs in just 13 games.
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Against a RB that high in the modern NFL especially when it's becoming more and more obvious you can find tremendous value and production past the 1st round now.
Love Zeke and watching him, but would you rather have a 5-6 year back as a top 5 pick or spend that pick on a position with more longevity while taking someone like... David Johnson in a later round? I lean towards the latter.
edit: I'm also of the belief Barkley is a combine freak only because I don't love what I see on tape.
Modern football varies. Some teams would like a guy that can do it all like Zeke, Bell and Gurley while others want to want to be more of a 2 man committee like Ingram and Kamara.
How much tape did you watch? The guy had 54 receptions for 632 yards and 3 TDs to mirror the hands you watched at the combines right? What sucks about that specifically? That's got modern NFL written all over it T. On top of that, he ran for 1271 yards on 217 carries for 5.9 yards per carry and 18 TDs in 2017 plus returning 2 kickoffs for TDs for 426 more yards. That looks like football player matching combine numbers to me in the sum of 23 TDs in just 13 games.
Modern football varies. Some teams would like a guy that can do it all like Zeke, Bell and Gurley while others want to want to be more of a 2 man committee like Ingram and Kamara.
How much tape did you watch? The guy had 54 receptions for 632 yards and 3 TDs to mirror the hands you watched at the combines right? What sucks about that specifically? That's got modern NFL written all over it T. On top of that, he ran for 1271 yards on 217 carries for 5.9 yards per carry and 18 TDs in 2017 plus returning 2 kickoffs for TDs for 426 more yards. That looks like football player matching combine numbers to me in the sum of 23 TDs in just 13 games.
To answer your questions - would I take Ingram and Kamara over Quon?.... yeah.
How much tape? Almost all of 2017 and some 16'. Also never said anything of it "sucks".. just not in love with what I saw.
I've resorted myself to not bother with full evals on players I'm not overly fond of - Saquon is one of them. So the condensed version. He has receptions but his propensity for the occasional "focus" drop is something that raises a red flag. I don't believe he's as slippery in the open field as his combine stats and certain highlights make him to be. For the one move he put on the Iowa backer, he couldn't clear the nickel DB and for possessing "power back" size/strength, really seems to not play with much desire for contact. That was a trend on tape. I heard a comparison to LT and had to chuckle because Tomlinson was a patient, tackles/gap runner with brilliant vision and with balance especially after contact. For the most part Quon gets the yards his line blocks for a little else unless some defender just misses him or he makes them miss. I believe that's why you'll see him rip one for 70 then do jack-Sheet the rest of the game. I really don't see Barkley as the next LT. He's bigger and still no where near as violent. The times he has taken huge losses or runs for little/no gain it's almost like he's unwilling to lower his shoulder, get behind his pads and punish a defender so he instead tries to outrun or out move everybody. You can dismiss that all you want but that might be the biggest concern I have. His lack of history showing that he will just try to power ahead and keep the chains moving as opposed to constantly attempting the home run shot. I want a threat to score but also the sort of back that will wear down a defense as the game goes on. Believe me, I'll be more than happy to go at someone in space. However stopping a guy with 30+lbs on me down hill with a head of steam? That Sheet suuuuucks and makes you think twice.
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For those of you saying no why? Is it because you are just against an RB at 1 or do you really think a QB solution has to be pick1??
I've slightly changed my mind about Barkley #1 overall. Some of this is Combine Euphoria workout warrior stuff. Vernon Gholston anyone? I'm going to let the dust settle before I throw my hat in the Saquon ring. Still 60% QB at #1.
It's been well documented Saquon got most of his yardage outside the tackles- a lot tougher act to repeat in the NFL. Sure teams were keying on stopping him- but I noticed in the TE Combine workouts Penn State's Mike Gesicki isn't exactly a bum- my bet is he's first round for sure. For Saquon's runs- it was swing miss, swing miss, home run.
MHO is still #1 QB + Fitzpartick\Chubb is > Barkley + ? QB. And we still may have the scenario where quarterbacks go with the top 3 picks- and Barkley is still there at #4.
Stay tuned folks.
I've slightly changed my mind about Barkley #1 overall. Some of this is Combine Euphoria workout warrior stuff. Vernon Gholston anyone? I'm going to let the dust settle before I throw my hat in the Saquon ring. Still 60% QB at #1.
It's been well documented Saquon got most of his yardage outside the tackles- a lot tougher act to repeat in the NFL. Sure teams were keying on stopping him- but I noticed in the TE Combine workouts Penn State's Mike Gesicki isn't exactly a bum- my bet is he's first round for sure. For Saquon's runs- it was swing miss, swing miss, home run.
MHO is still #1 QB + Fitzpartick\Chubb is > Barkley + ? QB. And we still may have the scenario where quarterbacks go with the top 3 picks- and Barkley is still there at #4.
Stay tuned folks.
The difference between Barkley and Gholston is Gholston only had 1 strength/pass rush move while he was Raggedy Ann against the run and pass in the NFL. Barkley can catch 54 passes for 632 yards and 3 TDs in a 13 game season while adding 18 TDs and 1271 more yards via the running game and also contribute 2 kickoffs for TDs matching football player to combine numbers.
The Barkley hype didn't begin at the combines Larry. It began kicking into gear when PSU won the Big 10 Championship his soph year behind his 1898 yards from scrimmage and 22 TDs. When he improved all that as a junior - he only needed the combine to confirm what people saw on the field. And it did.
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Modern football varies. Some teams would like a guy that can do it all like Zeke, Bell and Gurley while others want to want to be more of a 2 man committee like Ingram and Kamara.
How much tape did you watch? The guy had 54 receptions for 632 yards and 3 TDs to mirror the hands you watched at the combines right? What sucks about that specifically? That's got modern NFL written all over it T. On top of that, he ran for 1271 yards on 217 carries for 5.9 yards per carry and 18 TDs in 2017 plus returning 2 kickoffs for TDs for 426 more yards. That looks like football player matching combine numbers to me in the sum of 23 TDs in just 13 games.
To answer your questions - would I take Ingram and Kamara over Quon?.... yeah.
How much tape? Almost all of 2017 and some 16'. Also never said anything of it "sucks".. just not in love with what I saw.
I've resorted myself to not bother with full evals on players I'm not overly fond of - Saquon is one of them. So the condensed version. He has receptions but his propensity for the occasional "focus" drop is something that raises a red flag. I don't believe he's as slippery in the open field as his combine stats and certain highlights make him to be. For the one move he put on the Iowa backer, he couldn't clear the nickel DB and for possessing "power back" size/strength, really seems to not play with much desire for contact. That was a trend on tape. I heard a comparison to LT and had to chuckle because Tomlinson was a patient, tackles/gap runner with brilliant vision and with balance especially after contact. For the most part Quon gets the yards his line blocks for a little else unless some defender just misses him or he makes them miss. I believe that's why you'll see him rip one for 70 then do jack-Sheet the rest of the game. I really don't see Barkley as the next LT. He's bigger and still no where near as violent. The times he has taken huge losses or runs for little/no gain it's almost like he's unwilling to lower his shoulder, get behind his pads and punish a defender so he instead tries to outrun or out move everybody. You can dismiss that all you want but that might be the biggest concern I have. His lack of history showing that he will just try to power ahead and keep the chains moving as opposed to constantly attempting the home run shot. I want a threat to score but also the sort of back that will wear down a defense as the game goes on. Believe me, I'll be more than happy to go at someone in space. However stopping a guy with 30+lbs on me down hill with a head of steam? That Sheet suuuuucks and makes you think twice.
To answer your questions - would I take Ingram and Kamara over Quon?.... yeah.
How much tape? Almost all of 2017 and some 16'. Also never said anything of it "sucks".. just not in love with what I saw.
I've resorted myself to not bother with full evals on players I'm not overly fond of - Saquon is one of them. So the condensed version. He has receptions but his propensity for the occasional "focus" drop is something that raises a red flag. I don't believe he's as slippery in the open field as his combine stats and certain highlights make him to be. For the one move he put on the Iowa backer, he couldn't clear the nickel DB and for possessing "power back" size/strength, really seems to not play with much desire for contact. That was a trend on tape. I heard a comparison to LT and had to chuckle because Tomlinson was a patient, tackles/gap runner with brilliant vision and with balance especially after contact. For the most part Quon gets the yards his line blocks for a little else unless some defender just misses him or he makes them miss. I believe that's why you'll see him rip one for 70 then do jack-Sheet the rest of the game. I really don't see Barkley as the next LT. He's bigger and still no where near as violent. The times he has taken huge losses or runs for little/no gain it's almost like he's unwilling to lower his shoulder, get behind his pads and punish a defender so he instead tries to outrun or out move everybody. You can dismiss that all you want but that might be the biggest concern I have. His lack of history showing that he will just try to power ahead and keep the chains moving as opposed to constantly attempting the home run shot. I want a threat to score but also the sort of back that will wear down a defense as the game goes on. Believe me, I'll be more than happy to go at someone in space. However stopping a guy with 30+lbs on me down hill with a head of steam? That Sheet suuuuucks and makes you think twice.
I didn't ask you if you preferred Ingram and Kamara over Quon. I was just telling you some teams preferred 2 man committees like them while others that have appeared in playoffs have preferred a workhorse like Zeke, Gurley and Bell while I forgot Jax riding on the shoulders on their 1st round RB Fournette.
Even though we disagree on Quon - I enjoy and respect your players evals.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
More from the combine on Barklay
Mike Garafolo
Yep. Firmly. As in I truly believe he’s their pick at 1 as of right now. As for the QB and what they might do at 4, there is very strong buzz Cleveland likes Baker Mayfield a lot.
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To answer your questions - would I take Ingram and Kamara over Quon?.... yeah.
How much tape? Almost all of 2017 and some 16'. Also never said anything of it "sucks".. just not in love with what I saw.
I've resorted myself to not bother with full evals on players I'm not overly fond of - Saquon is one of them. So the condensed version. He has receptions but his propensity for the occasional "focus" drop is something that raises a red flag. I don't believe he's as slippery in the open field as his combine stats and certain highlights make him to be. For the one move he put on the Iowa backer, he couldn't clear the nickel DB and for possessing "power back" size/strength, really seems to not play with much desire for contact. That was a trend on tape. I heard a comparison to LT and had to chuckle because Tomlinson was a patient, tackles/gap runner with brilliant vision and with balance especially after contact. For the most part Quon gets the yards his line blocks for a little else unless some defender just misses him or he makes them miss. I believe that's why you'll see him rip one for 70 then do jack-Sheet the rest of the game. I really don't see Barkley as the next LT. He's bigger and still no where near as violent. The times he has taken huge losses or runs for little/no gain it's almost like he's unwilling to lower his shoulder, get behind his pads and punish a defender so he instead tries to outrun or out move everybody. You can dismiss that all you want but that might be the biggest concern I have. His lack of history showing that he will just try to power ahead and keep the chains moving as opposed to constantly attempting the home run shot. I want a threat to score but also the sort of back that will wear down a defense as the game goes on. Believe me, I'll be more than happy to go at someone in space. However stopping a guy with 30+lbs on me down hill with a head of steam? That Sheet suuuuucks and makes you think twice.
I didn't ask you if you preferred Ingram and Kamara over Quon. I was just telling you some teams preferred 2 man committees like them while others that have appeared in playoffs have preferred a workhorse like Zeke, Gurley and Bell while I forgot Jax riding on the shoulders on their 1st round RB Fournette.
Even though we disagree on Quon - I enjoy and respect your players evals.
I didn't ask you if you preferred Ingram and Kamara over Quon. I was just telling you some teams preferred 2 man committees like them while others that have appeared in playoffs have preferred a workhorse like Zeke, Gurley and Bell while I forgot Jax riding on the shoulders on their 1st round RB Fournette.
Even though we disagree on Quon - I enjoy and respect your players evals.
Well I'm telling you that's the type of approach I would prefer as opposed to a one horse show.
Likewise. You're someone that, even at times I find myself disagreeing with, makes a presentable and logical argument.
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I have been in favor of Barkley all along, unless the Browns have Rosen as their top QB choice. He is the only one I feel is worthy of the #1 pick. So to me its either, pick Rosen before anyone else can get him, or pick Barkley and then Allen or Mayfly or whoever at 4.
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To answer your questions - would I take Ingram and Kamara over Quon?.... yeah.
How much tape? Almost all of 2017 and some 16'. Also never said anything of it "sucks".. just not in love with what I saw.
I've resorted myself to not bother with full evals on players I'm not overly fond of - Saquon is one of them. So the condensed version. He has receptions but his propensity for the occasional "focus" drop is something that raises a red flag. I don't believe he's as slippery in the open field as his combine stats and certain highlights make him to be. For the one move he put on the Iowa backer, he couldn't clear the nickel DB and for possessing "power back" size/strength, really seems to not play with much desire for contact. That was a trend on tape. I heard a comparison to LT and had to chuckle because Tomlinson was a patient, tackles/gap runner with brilliant vision and with balance especially after contact. For the most part Quon gets the yards his line blocks for a little else unless some defender just misses him or he makes them miss. I believe that's why you'll see him rip one for 70 then do jack-Sheet the rest of the game. I really don't see Barkley as the next LT. He's bigger and still no where near as violent. The times he has taken huge losses or runs for little/no gain it's almost like he's unwilling to lower his shoulder, get behind his pads and punish a defender so he instead tries to outrun or out move everybody. You can dismiss that all you want but that might be the biggest concern I have. His lack of history showing that he will just try to power ahead and keep the chains moving as opposed to constantly attempting the home run shot. I want a threat to score but also the sort of back that will wear down a defense as the game goes on. Believe me, I'll be more than happy to go at someone in space. However stopping a guy with 30+lbs on me down hill with a head of steam? That Sheet suuuuucks and makes you think twice.
I didn't ask you if you preferred Ingram and Kamara over Quon. I was just telling you some teams preferred 2 man committees like them while others that have appeared in playoffs have preferred a workhorse like Zeke, Gurley and Bell while I forgot Jax riding on the shoulders on their 1st round RB Fournette.
Even though we disagree on Quon - I enjoy and respect your players evals.
Even though we disagree on Quon - I enjoy and respect your players evals.
Likewise. You're someone that, even at times I find myself disagreeing with, makes a presentable and logical argument.
FFS. We are in a football forum, you guys are supposed to throw sh!t at each other when you disagree!
If we start acting like this, what will we end up like? Civilized men discussing and respecting each other? Yuck!!!
Need some privacy? Go to a motel!
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No
1. QB you like the most
4. Fitzpatrick
Get back into late round one if needed and take Sony Michel
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Dorsey found the NFL rushing leader in the 3rd round last year, hes here to fix our QB problem and knows he can find a good RB later in the draft. So no to not picking a QB at 1.
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Okay loddies and lassies, top of the morning to yuz! Watching the difference between top QB prospects become much less of a difference has me rethinking my way over to Barkley at #1. Hear me out first; because all of this time I was right where Mark O was on the QB vrs Barkley debate only he articulated our argument way better than me. He'll still have things I agree on except the reality that even our favorite QBs have more things to worry about than Barkley has. So, here goes the overcaffeinated world according to me:
If we don't start the run on QBs at #1 overall - isn't there still only 2 draft picks before we draft again at #4? And how many weeks will this be after the team with the most money to spend on a FA QB does so? And isn't it possible this is a unique year where 2-3 QBs can be very equivalent in what they offer because they all have some concerns? Aside from that, when the 2 other teams pick before our 4th spot - what guarantee do we have they will take the 1 we are slightly favoring? Whether I agree with the drool fest over Josh Allen or not - maybe it's a good thing he can throw the ball all the way to Canada just like Jamarcus Russell could. He could be one of the QBs that goes before we pick at #4 because someone will be willing to forget he only threw 16 TD passes last year against a lesser brand of corner and pass rushers with pedestrian accuracy. I know I know he LOVES football though. All it takes is 1 team that doesn't care about short game accuracy and the tighter windows of red zones. We've already gone the bionic arm route in lieu of accuracy with Weeden, Anderson and Kizer which are 3 very good reasons we still need a QB today right? They LOVED football too before they realized their lack of accuracy in a world that requires fitting air tight windows in congested red zones them feeling like a McCoy surrounded by 65,000 Hatfields. It's been like a never ending video to the song "You Lost that Loving Feeling..."
YES, Mayfield and Darnold are my not-so-perfect faves but much to my surprise Rosen (with a lot of help from SD Tom's persistence and media examples at the combines) got me to see him in ways I was previously unwilling to - closed some serious ground on both. I don't give a rat what he said when he was 17 that has been so blow out of context to look like he just said those things 4-5 years later. And when he questioned which sport he was better between his #1 ranking in tennis vrs his #1 QB ranking in Rivals and Scout - that's not a lack of love or passion for the sport he chose at 17. It's probably something a lot of people would question. I also find it interesting that some of his previous critics at the football camp back before he was a senior in high school have made it a point to say he's a lot more mature today to the extent they've changed their opinion of him for the better. The last Head Coach he had gave him far better reviews than Justin Gilbert's college Head Coach had for all healthy consumers.
So WHY have I about faced my opinion to take a RB first especially in a draft that is so deep at the position? As I've looked at all of the RBs in the draft, a lot of them aren't going to be 3 down RBs in the NFL because they lack the 1 thing Barkley might be very underrated at. Catching the football out of the backfield aside from his ideal size to handle a bigger work load. He had 54 receptions for 632 yards and 3 TDs to go with his 1200+ yards and 18 TDs on the ground aside from his kickoff returns for TDs. If you're not impressed - you simply don't want to be. The only RB that resembles Barkley is SDSU's Rashaad Penny but there's no guarantees he's on our doorstep later in the draft. Meanwhile, Sony Michel I thought was an ideal alternative only had 9 receptions in 14-15 games while his playing weight of about 215 lbs reminds us he'll stay a part time RB.
Barkley has better gears than Duke Johnson without the history of injury Duke had at the U - which ultimately made his NFL taker understand how much of a workload he'd handle best. Right now, we don't have a scoring threat on the roster inclusive of the Josh Gordon who has only scored 1 TD in his only 10 starts since 2013. Barkley is good for the passing game and our running game without us tipping off tendencies using 2 different guys all the time. If you want to recruit the interest of a FA QB - you tell him you are going to give him Barkley like Polian equipped Peyton Manning with Marshall Faulk in his first NFL huddle and then Edge James thereafter. When Faulk went to the Rams, a little known QB named Kurt Warner at 29 years of age enjoyed a RB that could bury the blitz with TD receptions all the way to a Pro Bowl and MVP caliber season punctuated with a Superbowl Championship. For that matter, there's Dak Prescott WITH Zeke and WITHOUT Zeke - can you guess which version made him Rookie of the Year?
In adding Barkley, we don't need to draft another RB. We get our Marshall Faulk that can score from anywhere on the field in the pass game or running game. Meanwhile, as all the other teams are in those runs drafting RBs in this deep draft - this gets us looking at WRs and DBs and a dual purpose TE like Oklahoma's Mark Andrews. We also have Free Agency and the most money to spend on some yes price tags we finally HAVE to compete for (rather than overpaying the Jamar Taylor we still need to upgrade causing us to double-dip anyway). You get what you pay for and the unwillingness to compete for the better guys often causes desperate knee jerk overpayments on bums/has-beens like Dwayne Bowe and Kenny Brat.
The biggest difference between Barkley and the first QB is every top QB we consider gives us at least 1-2 more concerns than Barkley does. The good news? There's only 2 picks between who we take at #1 and when we pick again. We're going to add QBs with as much money as we have for FA as well as up as high as #4 overall. Barkley and these 2 QBs plus three 2nd round picks plus the 1st pick of round 3?
All this from a guy that was getting a huge kick out of the "Love PO tion #9" Springbreak girls gone wild caliber passion packed threads recruiting the testosterone to throw down and polarize. IMO, this is a classic example of letting some things settle before racing to a final conclusion far before it's necessary. My mind may change again but I'm enjoying the excitement of the opportunity this experienced FO (with proven success in the draft, free agency and trades) has in front of it.
Okay loddies and lassies, top of the morning to yuz! Watching the difference between top QB prospects become much less of a difference has me rethinking my way over to Barkley at #1. Hear me out first; because all of this time I was right where Mark O was on the QB vrs Barkley debate only he articulated our argument way better than me. He'll still have things I agree on except the reality that even our favorite QBs have more things to worry about than Barkley has. So, here goes the overcaffeinated world according to me:
If we don't start the run on QBs at #1 overall - isn't there still only 2 draft picks before we draft again at #4? And how many weeks will this be after the team with the most money to spend on a FA QB does so? And isn't it possible this is a unique year where 2-3 QBs can be very equivalent in what they offer because they all have some concerns? Aside from that, when the 2 other teams pick before our 4th spot - what guarantee do we have they will take the 1 we are slightly favoring? Whether I agree with the drool fest over Josh Allen or not - maybe it's a good thing he can throw the ball all the way to Canada just like Jamarcus Russell could. He could be one of the QBs that goes before we pick at #4 because someone will be willing to forget he only threw 16 TD passes last year against a lesser brand of corner and pass rushers with pedestrian accuracy. I know I know he LOVES football though. All it takes is 1 team that doesn't care about short game accuracy and the tighter windows of red zones. We've already gone the bionic arm route in lieu of accuracy with Weeden, Anderson and Kizer which are 3 very good reasons we still need a QB today right? They LOVED football too before they realized their lack of accuracy in a world that requires fitting air tight windows in congested red zones them feeling like a McCoy surrounded by 65,000 Hatfields. It's been like a never ending video to the song "You Lost that Loving Feeling..."
YES, Mayfield and Darnold are my not-so-perfect faves but much to my surprise Rosen (with a lot of help from SD Tom's persistence and media examples at the combines) got me to see him in ways I was previously unwilling to - closed some serious ground on both. I don't give a rat what he said when he was 17 that has been so blow out of context to look like he just said those things 4-5 years later. And when he questioned which sport he was better between his #1 ranking in tennis vrs his #1 QB ranking in Rivals and Scout - that's not a lack of love or passion for the sport he chose at 17. It's probably something a lot of people would question. I also find it interesting that some of his previous critics at the football camp back before he was a senior in high school have made it a point to say he's a lot more mature today to the extent they've changed their opinion of him for the better. The last Head Coach he had gave him far better reviews than Justin Gilbert's college Head Coach had for all healthy consumers.
So WHY have I about faced my opinion to take a RB first especially in a draft that is so deep at the position? As I've looked at all of the RBs in the draft, a lot of them aren't going to be 3 down RBs in the NFL because they lack the 1 thing Barkley might be very underrated at. Catching the football out of the backfield aside from his ideal size to handle a bigger work load. He had 54 receptions for 632 yards and 3 TDs to go with his 1200+ yards and 18 TDs on the ground aside from his kickoff returns for TDs. If you're not impressed - you simply don't want to be. The only RB that resembles Barkley is SDSU's Rashaad Penny but there's no guarantees he's on our doorstep later in the draft. Meanwhile, Sony Michel I thought was an ideal alternative only had 9 receptions in 14-15 games while his playing weight of about 215 lbs reminds us he'll stay a part time RB.
Barkley has better gears than Duke Johnson without the history of injury Duke had at the U - which ultimately made his NFL taker understand how much of a workload he'd handle best. Right now, we don't have a scoring threat on the roster inclusive of the Josh Gordon who has only scored 1 TD in his only 10 starts since 2013. Barkley is good for the passing game and our running game without us tipping off tendencies using 2 different guys all the time. If you want to recruit the interest of a FA QB - you tell him you are going to give him Barkley like Polian equipped Peyton Manning with Marshall Faulk in his first NFL huddle and then Edge James thereafter. When Faulk went to the Rams, a little known QB named Kurt Warner at 29 years of age enjoyed a RB that could bury the blitz with TD receptions all the way to a Pro Bowl and MVP caliber season punctuated with a Superbowl Championship. For that matter, there's Dak Prescott WITH Zeke and WITHOUT Zeke - can you guess which version made him Rookie of the Year?
In adding Barkley, we don't need to draft another RB. We get our Marshall Faulk that can score from anywhere on the field in the pass game or running game. Meanwhile, as all the other teams are in those runs drafting RBs in this deep draft - this gets us looking at WRs and DBs and a dual purpose TE like Oklahoma's Mark Andrews. We also have Free Agency and the most money to spend on some yes price tags we finally HAVE to compete for (rather than overpaying the Jamar Taylor we still need to upgrade causing us to double-dip anyway). You get what you pay for and the unwillingness to compete for the better guys often causes desperate knee jerk overpayments on bums/has-beens like Dwayne Bowe and Kenny Brat.
The biggest difference between Barkley and the first QB is every top QB we consider gives us at least 1-2 more concerns than Barkley does. The good news? There's only 2 picks between who we take at #1 and when we pick again. We're going to add QBs with as much money as we have for FA as well as up as high as #4 overall. Barkley and these 2 QBs plus three 2nd round picks plus the 1st pick of round 3?
All this from a guy that was getting a huge kick out of the "Love PO tion #9" Springbreak girls gone wild caliber passion packed threads recruiting the testosterone to throw down and polarize. IMO, this is a classic example of letting some things settle before racing to a final conclusion far before it's necessary. My mind may change again but I'm enjoying the excitement of the opportunity this experienced FO (with proven success in the draft, free agency and trades) has in front of it.
I'm not of the opinion that Barkley is bad, in fact I think he CAN be really good. But in what you propose here, everything would have to work out all together.
I think Barkley is a fair bit better than the next best back, but that doesn't mean that you can't get close production later. His workout was GREAT, but there has also been other great workouts in past from players who didn't pan out. I think changing a view based on a workout would scare me a bit.
Another thing that would worry me is his inconsistency. Ohio State is the most like an NFL defense that he faced and he didn't perform great. Was that all his fault, NO, but would still give me pause. Even these guys that "suck" or "bust" in the NFL were the best of the best in college, and the discrepancy between good and bad is small as compared to college.
But the thing that would worry me more than any other thing is settling for the 3rd best QB in your eyes. While all 3 could be good, average, or bad, when you have had bad player there for almost 20 years, and it being the most important position, you need to find your guy. And while different teams COULD have different guys at the top, and COULD have them all rated closely, I can't remember 3 being that close (And I could be wrong). What I do remember, is a few years ago that at different times, Goff, Wentz, and Lynch were all rated the best, and many were very surprised Lynch wasn't taken A LOT higher. Lynch was the 3rd taken, do you REALLY want the Browns to take that gamble where say Darnold is Goff (Pac 12), Allen is Wentz (smaller school) and Mayfield and Rosen are Lynch and Cook.
Again, I am not saying they shouldn't take Barkley, but there are certainly more things to consider more than him being able to score touchdowns and be a 3 down back.
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No.
How many playoff games have the Cowboys won with Ezekiel Elliot?
No.
How many playoff games have the Cowboys won with Ezekiel Elliot?
You dont win the Super Bowl without making the post season.
Once in anything can happen.
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None of the QBs are outstanding. If there was a guy you obiviously take him over the pack.
Barkley will be gone by 4. The Giants and Colts will not pass on a player like him when both their QBs have had their struggles as of late. Barkley is a game changers who can play now. The fastest way for the Browns to win is Barkley, then a QB at 4 and signing a Vet to play this season assuming Kizer cant win the job. They youre pretty much set at QB for the interim. You hope the 4 pick is ready next season.
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When there is a generational talent at a position of need, you take him at #1.
Not only that, An identity is so needed on this team and it finally arrives in the form of Saquon Barkley. Very, very excited.
Also, we should be thanking Chubb for his excellent combine showing. That should lock him up at 3. Leaving only NYG selecting the first QB.
Man oh, man which QB to throw to J.Gordon and crew??
Dorsey doesn't agree with you. It's not looking good for the Saquon at #1 crowd currently. We've already been down this road with Po a dozen times. It's few and far between "generational" running backs win Super Bowls- and definitely not without a super talented team around them. The last one to do so was Emmett Smith, and that was over 20 years ago.
" Asked to rank the most important positions on the field correlated with winning, Dorsey started with quarterback and rattled off four more -- pass rusher, cornerback, left tackle and wide receiver -- that are directly related to the passing game."
Barkley wasn't even a better college RB than Ezekiel Elliot, but now he's a "generational" talent.
And I thought only ESPN was a front runner in the hype game. Seems NFLN is seriously kissing his butt. Hardly heard anything about Guice, Michel, and several other RBs.
Dorsey doesn't agree with you. It's not looking good for the Saquon at #1 crowd currently. We've already been down this road with Po a dozen times. It's few and far between "generational" running backs win Super Bowls- and definitely not without a super talented team around them. The last one to do so was Emmett Smith, and that was over 20 years ago.
HOF QBs have won 12 of the last 15 Super Bowls. Who is the HOF QB in this bunch? Not 1 guy is creating the buzz of a E Manning or a Ben or a Brees when they were drafted.
Marshall Faulk won in 2000 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FaulMa00.htm
Marshwan Lynch won the Super Bowl in 2013 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LyncMa00.htm
Lynch helped Wilson win one as a rookie. The Browns would be crazy to pass on Barkley.
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None of the QBs are outstanding. If there was a guy you obiviously take him over the pack.
Barkley will be gone by 4. The Giants and Colts will not pass on a player like him when both their QBs have had their struggles as of late. Barkley is a game changers who can play now. The fastest way for the Browns to win is Barkley, then a QB at 4 and signing a Vet to play this season assuming Kizer cant win the job. They youre pretty much set at QB for the interim. You hope the 4 pick is ready next season.
None of the QBs are outstanding. If there was a guy you obiviously take him over the pack.
Barkley will be gone by 4. The Giants and Colts will not pass on a player like him when both their QBs have had their struggles as of late. Barkley is a game changers who can play now. The fastest way for the Browns to win is Barkley, then a QB at 4 and signing a Vet to play this season assuming Kizer cant win the job. They youre pretty much set at QB for the interim. You hope the 4 pick is ready next season.
Good points, but there is are a couple reasons people have Giants taking a QB. One, they won't be drafting this high again. Everything went wrong for them this year, as the team the year before was a playoff team. And 2nd, Eli is NOT Tom Brady. He isn't nearly as good, and he won't play until he's 150 like Brady.
I dont like them, but in my opinion, if they want to succeed in the future they draft the replacement. Barkley (if as good as hyped) may help them immediately, but in a year or 2 they won't have a QB. And I don't think Barkley takes them over the Eagles. Eli had a lot of problems last year, and if they want to compete in the duture, they will need their heir apparent.
The Colts have more of a chance to take Barkley in my opinion, as they already have their QB. They aren't taking one. But they haven't lit up the league in past few seasons with Luck, as they probably have more holes than Cleveland. They could certainly trade with a team who wants to come up for QB to get more assets.
But the one thing that I just don't get with people saying take Barkley at 1 and QB at 4, they either say you still get a top QB (could be true or untrue) or like you said they all have issues or aren't outstanding. Well if you passed at 1 for your franchise QB, why would you then take one 3 picks later? In those 3 picks, did he gain skill, or is it that the potentially 3rd QB on your list is better than 1st?
At 40, TB was still the most important player on your team. If they had Paxton Lynch (or even use your 3rd stringer in camp Brissett or Brian Hoyer) instead, but had Todd Gurley, Zeke, Kareem Hunt, Alvin Kamara, or Leveon Bell, you think they would have been in Super Bowl?
Does Barkley turn the Browns into a playoff team next year, and then once in have a chance? Because I GUARANTEE that the top QB (assuming at least one pans out) will help the team they are on to improve.
Everyone rags on Bortles, and he certainly hasn't lived up to 3rd pick, but when he played well (or decent) is when the Jags performed well, when he was bad, Jags were. His running helped them A LOT in postseason.
One thing that shows how important QB is, look at the "talk" about trades for 2 QB that are top 5 players at this point. They certainly aren't worth it, but Luck and Foles have BOTH been talked about for 2 1s and 2 2s, you think any of the top backs in the league would fetch anywhere close to that.
Not all directed directly to you Boo. It just is soo ironic to me how likely the same ones advocating for possibly the 3rd QB are the same ones who were up in arms that team didn't take a QB, didn't take "their" QB, or took one too late.
Even your buddy Ghoolie has said QB is most important position, and in one thread says Browns need Mayfield, another they need Jackson, and then says Barkley. Next week they will need, Penny, Charl, and either White or Benkerk. By the time of draft, he will have mentioned EVERY skill player one place or another, and then say "I told everyone, he was best player, I predicted it 100%, and I saw this guy before anyone, including his mama" I'm the only smart guy on here. Just a lot of profanity and I'll words in between.
Have a good evening buddy
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None of the QBs are outstanding. If there was a guy you obiviously take him over the pack.
Barkley will be gone by 4. The Giants and Colts will not pass on a player like him when both their QBs have had their struggles as of late. Barkley is a game changers who can play now. The fastest way for the Browns to win is Barkley, then a QB at 4 and signing a Vet to play this season assuming Kizer cant win the job. They youre pretty much set at QB for the interim. You hope the 4 pick is ready next season.
Good points, but there is are a couple reasons people have Giants taking a QB. One, they won't be drafting this high again. Everything went wrong for them this year, as the team the year before was a playoff team. And 2nd, Eli is NOT Tom Brady. He isn't nearly as good, and he won't play until he's 150 like Brady.
I dont like them, but in my opinion, if they want to succeed in the future they draft the replacement. Barkley (if as good as hyped) may help them immediately, but in a year or 2 they won't have a QB. And I don't think Barkley takes them over the Eagles. Eli had a lot of problems last year, and if they want to compete in the duture, they will need their heir apparent.
The Colts have more of a chance to take Barkley in my opinion, as they already have their QB. They aren't taking one. But they haven't lit up the league in past few seasons with Luck, as they probably have more holes than Cleveland. They could certainly trade with a team who wants to come up for QB to get more assets.
But the one thing that I just don't get with people saying take Barkley at 1 and QB at 4, they either say you still get a top QB (could be true or untrue) or like you said they all have issues or aren't outstanding. Well if you passed at 1 for your franchise QB, why would you then take one 3 picks later? In those 3 picks, did he gain skill, or is it that the potentially 3rd QB on your list is better than 1st?
At 40, TB was still the most important player on your team. If they had Paxton Lynch (or even use your 3rd stringer in camp Brissett or Brian Hoyer) instead, but had Todd Gurley, Zeke, Kareem Hunt, Alvin Kamara, or Leveon Bell, you think they would have been in Super Bowl?
Does Barkley turn the Browns into a playoff team next year, and then once in have a chance? Because I GUARANTEE that the top QB (assuming at least one pans out) will help the team they are on to improve.
Everyone rags on Bortles, and he certainly hasn't lived up to 3rd pick, but when he played well (or decent) is when the Jags performed well, when he was bad, Jags were. His running helped them A LOT in postseason.
One thing that shows how important QB is, look at the "talk" about trades for 2 QB that are top 5 players at this point. They certainly aren't worth it, but Luck and Foles have BOTH been talked about for 2 1s and 2 2s, you think any of the top backs in the league would fetch anywhere close to that.
Not all directed directly to you Boo. It just is soo ironic to me how likely the same ones advocating for possibly the 3rd QB are the same ones who were up in arms that team didn't take a QB, didn't take "their" QB, or took one too late.
Even your buddy Ghoolie has said QB is most important position, and in one thread says Browns need Mayfield, another they need Jackson, and then says Barkley. Next week they will need, Penny, Charl, and either White or Benkerk. By the time of draft, he will have mentioned EVERY skill player one place or another, and then say "I told everyone, he was best player, I predicted it 100%, and I saw this guy before anyone, including his mama" I'm the only smart guy on here. Just a lot of profanity and I'll words in between.
Have a good evening buddy
Good points, but there is are a couple reasons people have Giants taking a QB. One, they won't be drafting this high again. Everything went wrong for them this year, as the team the year before was a playoff team. And 2nd, Eli is NOT Tom Brady. He isn't nearly as good, and he won't play until he's 150 like Brady.
NY taking a QB at 2 would create a $hitstorm. Eli would have little chance to rebound.
Eli is not Brady, but he is a 2 time Super Bowl winner. Barkley would take so much pressure of Manning, but if they pass on Barkley the Colts have no RB. Frank Gore will not be resigned.
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