Greg Cosell Breaks Down Top 2018 QBs
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Well, I believe we are looking at Mayfield or Allen. Allen has a sky high upside, and will have plenty of time to
get his footwork perfected. And, Mayfield will have time to learn the game. All this talk about Mayfield's height -
does anybody not know that Brian Sipe was 6'1", 195 lbs?
Last year, there were 7 games, maybe 8, that they could have won with a field goal or a TD.
flip the talent switch hugely, add a very good OC, and watch the NFL be shocked at the difference.
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Sipe didn't have guys like JJ watt and Joey bosa and myles Garrett lined up across from him either.
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Sipe didn't have guys like JJ watt and Joey bosa and myles Garrett lined up across from him either.
Sipe didn't have guys like JJ watt and Joey bosa and myles Garrett lined up across from him either.
Sipe retired like 35 years ago.
We aren't going to draft 250lb OLinemen because the Browns won a title in 1964 with them.
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Sipe retired like 35 years ago.
We aren't going to draft 250lb OLinemen because the Browns won a title in 1964 with them.
That's what I'm saying. Different era, it's irrelevant in modern nfl.
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Sipe didn't have guys like JJ watt and Joey bosa and myles Garrett lined up across from him either.
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Well, I believe we are looking at Mayfield or Allen. Allen has a sky high upside, and will have plenty of time to
get his footwork perfected. And, Mayfield will have time to learn the game. All this talk about Mayfield's height -
does anybody not know that Brian Sipe was 6'1", 195 lbs?
Last year, there were 7 games, maybe 8, that they could have won with a field goal or a TD.
flip the talent switch hugely, add a very good OC, and watch the NFL be shocked at the difference.
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yet Russel Wilson is 5'11", 215.
Drew Brees - 6', 209.
Tyrod Taylor – Buffalo Bills – 6'1"
Aaron Rodgers – Green Bay Packers – 6'2"
Brian Hoyer – Houston Texans – 6'2"
Andy Dalton – Cincinnati Bengals – 6'2"
They are still in the NFL, not players from 35 years ago.
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Your list is two anomalies - Wilson and Brees, a mediocre starter in Taylor, and three guys that are an inch taller and probably 20-30 lbs heavier than Sipe, two inches taller than Mayfield.
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You coming around to the potential of Rosen yet?
I've always had Rosen in my top 3. To have him as our #1 in the draft? It's going to seriously depend how much weight Dorsey & Company put on his injury history. Those two concussions scare me. Josh is also the least mobile compared to Darnold and Mayfield- he's going to get hit a lot in the pros. I've mentioned he has a tennis player build, do we take him at #1 and watch him turn into another Sam Bradford, great when he's healthy- except he never is?
After listening to Cosell, I'm firming up my ranking #1 Mayfield, #2 Darnold, #3 Rosen. Just no to Allen and Jackson.
I've always had Rosen in my top 3. To have him as our #1 in the draft? It's going to seriously depend how much weight Dorsey & Company put on his injury history. Those two concussions scare me. Josh is also the least mobile compared to Darnold and Mayfield- he's going to get hit a lot in the pros. I've mentioned he has a tennis player build, do we take him at #1 and watch him turn into another Sam Bradford, great when he's healthy- except he never is?
After listening to Cosell, I'm firming up my ranking #1 Mayfield, #2 Darnold, #3 Rosen. Just no to Allen and Jackson.
Right now that's the way I'm leaving. Maybe swap Rosen and Darnold I worry that Rosen is skinny and I don't particularly like the rumors of his attitude but...
My worry about Sam his watching Ohio State hand him his a$$.
WSS
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I've always had Rosen in my top 3. To have him as our #1 in the draft? It's going to seriously depend how much weight Dorsey & Company put on his injury history. Those two concussions scare me. Josh is also the least mobile compared to Darnold and Mayfield- he's going to get hit a lot in the pros. I've mentioned he has a tennis player build, do we take him at #1 and watch him turn into another Sam Bradford, great when he's healthy- except he never is?
After listening to Cosell, I'm firming up my ranking #1 Mayfield, #2 Darnold, #3 Rosen. Just no to Allen and Jackson.
Right now that's the way I'm leaving. Maybe swap Rosen and Darnold I worry that Rosen is skinny and I don't particularly like the rumors of his attitude but...
My worry about Sam his watching Ohio State hand him his a$$.
WSS
Right now that's the way I'm leaving. Maybe swap Rosen and Darnold I worry that Rosen is skinny and I don't particularly like the rumors of his attitude but...
My worry about Sam his watching Ohio State hand him his a$$.
WSS
Eh it is a team game. Darnold was getting murdered all game. Fournette looked like trash against Alabama. He seems to be doing o.k. for himself.
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Allen will be "The Big Flop". He just can't make wide open passes. And the reason he won't "thread the needle" is because he will not throw those, he'll run.
I really do not want to be trading off a first rounder in 2019 because he was near identical to Sir Kaiser.
Allen will be "The Big Flop". He just can't make wide open passes. And the reason he won't "thread the needle" is because he will not throw those, he'll run.
I really do not want to be trading off a first rounder in 2019 because he was near identical to Sir Kaiser.
I completely agree. The only way Allen will be good (in my mind) is if he goes to a good team that allows him to really sit and learn a while. But I have to be honest, a guy throwing a ball very hard and far doesn't mean squat to me. I want the guy who can make quick decisions, throw it to someone IN STRIDE, NOT turn it over, someone who loves football, and a guy who is revered by his teammates. Oh look, that sounds like Baker Mayfield! Cosell seems to really like him, too.
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I got the impression he really likes Darnold the most, followed by mayfield. I'll take an accurate passer all day long over a cannon. At one point does the nfl realize that physical attributes are not the end all, be all of nfl qbs? I think this is why Darnold is the safest bet. He's big, accurate for the most part, mobile, and has great character...He checks all the boxes. He's also 20 years old! He needs a lot of work on protecting the football, his footwork inside the pocket, and a tweak to his mechanics (not a tim tebow type fix, but a little would help. he still gets the ball out fast and his fumbles were rarely due to his wind up but more to not protecting the ball). The OSU game is brought up a lot, he had his turnovers (one really bad pick) but it was clear that his offensive line was NO MATCH for that OSU defense. You can count on one hand how many "clean" pockets he had. I'm not saying it wasn't an eye raiser when I saw it, but he made plays and for the most part and made that more of a game than it should have been. Plus, with TT on-board, he can take time to develop and learn. A luxury Kizer never had.
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Well, I believe we are looking at Mayfield or Allen. Allen has a sky high upside, and will have plenty of time to
get his footwork perfected. And, Mayfield will have time to learn the game. All this talk about Mayfield's height -
does anybody not know that Brian Sipe was 6'1", 195 lbs?
Last year, there were 7 games, maybe 8, that they could have won with a field goal or a TD.
flip the talent switch hugely, add a very good OC, and watch the NFL be shocked at the difference.
Well, I believe we are looking at Mayfield or Allen. Allen has a sky high upside, and will have plenty of time to
Actually....I believe those are the two guys we have eliminated from consideration.
It will be Darnold or Rosen
get his footwork perfected. And, Mayfield will have time to learn the game. All this talk about Mayfield's height -
does anybody not know that Brian Sipe was 6'1", 195 lbs?
Last year, there were 7 games, maybe 8, that they could have won with a field goal or a TD.
flip the talent switch hugely, add a very good OC, and watch the NFL be shocked at the difference.
-
Sipe didn't have guys like JJ watt and Joey bosa and myles Garrett lined up across from him either.
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Actually...yes, he did. He had mean Joe Greene....Jack Lambert, Robert Brazile, Ted Hendricks....Jack Ham, Andre Tippet...and others...those just in the AFC.
Duly noted. But weren't guys like that more physical outliers than the norm back then? All positions are bigger and faster then they used to be.
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Actually...yes, he did. He had mean Joe Greene....Jack Lambert, Robert Brazile, Ted Hendricks....Jack Ham, Andre Tippet...and others...those just in the AFC.
Duly noted. But weren't guys like that more physical outliers than the norm back then? All positions are bigger and faster then they used to be.
Duly noted. But weren't guys like that more physical outliers than the norm back then? All positions are bigger and faster then they used to be.
No...they weren't. The ONLY positions back then that were smaller than those that play today are the interior OL....and the interior DL.
DEs, MLBs, OLBs etc....pretty much played with the same size, speed as players do today.
It is a COMPLETE myth that players now overall are bigger, faster. ONLY the two that I mentioned.....OL, interior DL have gotten bigger...plus QBs are a bit taller and heavier.
JJ Watt and Mean Joe Greene were about the same size: 6'4 280. Deacon Jones DE may have been just a bit more slim: 6'5 275.
But DTs today probably run normally in the 300 lb range....unless you get a Shelton who pushed 330. Most DTs then were probably more like 270-275. But, as noted, the OL ran about that same weight...where today they have that extra 25 lbs on them.
I would wager that if the combine were done then....you would find the speeds of players have not drastically changed. I doubt that hardly any OL back then would have done as poorly as Orlando Brown Jr.
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Well, I believe we are looking at Mayfield or Allen. Allen has a sky high upside, and will have plenty of time to
Actually....I believe those are the two guys we have eliminated from consideration.
It will be Darnold or Rosen
get his footwork perfected. And, Mayfield will have time to learn the game. All this talk about Mayfield's height -
does anybody not know that Brian Sipe was 6'1", 195 lbs?
Last year, there were 7 games, maybe 8, that they could have won with a field goal or a TD.
flip the talent switch hugely, add a very good OC, and watch the NFL be shocked at the difference.
Actually....I believe those are the two guys we have eliminated from consideration.
It will be Darnold or Rosen
well. one of us is looking at it bass-ackwards, and you are the judge. lol
To sign the ol, I think it means:
1. Not a great draft for ot at all. Don't want to draft OG's if they can help it.
2. They really want to run the ball and protect on qb rollouts .
3. They signed Taylor - a rollout qb, who really is great at ball security...and they have the OC that likes to see a qb be mobile.
So, I think it isn't rosen on the mobility, and I think it isn't darnold now, because of the ball security.
We'll see how it goes.
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Actually....I believe those are the two guys we have eliminated from consideration.
It will be Darnold or Rosen
well. one of us is looking at it bass-ackwards, and you are the judge. lol
To sign the ol, I think it means:
1. Not a great draft for ot at all. Don't want to draft OG's if they can help it.
2. They really want to run the ball and protect on qb rollouts .
3. They signed Taylor - a rollout qb, who really is great at ball security...and they have the OC that likes to see a qb be mobile.
So, I think it isn't rosen on the mobility, and I think it isn't darnold now, because of the ball security.
We'll see how it goes.
well. one of us is looking at it bass-ackwards, and you are the judge. lol
Yes...one of us is.
To sign the ol, I think it means:
1. Not a great draft for ot at all. Don't want to draft OG's if they can help it.
What has that got to do with which QB they would take?
2. They really want to run the ball and protect on qb rollouts .
What has that got to do with which QB they would take?
3. They signed Taylor - a rollout qb, who really is great at ball security...and they have the OC that likes to see a qb be mobile.
So, I think it isn't rosen on the mobility, and I think it isn't darnold now, because of the ball security.
Yet....complete lack of accuracy trumps all that.
We'll see how it goes.
Its OK...you are entitled to be wrong. Based on all evidence of your presence on these boards, you usually are....but that is another matter.
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Duly noted. But weren't guys like that more physical outliers than the norm back then? All positions are bigger and faster then they used to be.
No...they weren't. The ONLY positions back then that were smaller than those that play today are the interior OL....and the interior DL.
DEs, MLBs, OLBs etc....pretty much played with the same size, speed as players do today.
It is a COMPLETE myth that players now overall are bigger, faster. ONLY the two that I mentioned.....OL, interior DL have gotten bigger...plus QBs are a bit taller and heavier.
JJ Watt and Mean Joe Greene were about the same size: 6'4 280. Deacon Jones DE may have been just a bit more slim: 6'5 275.
But DTs today probably run normally in the 300 lb range....unless you get a Shelton who pushed 330. Most DTs then were probably more like 270-275. But, as noted, the OL ran about that same weight...where today they have that extra 25 lbs on them.
I would wager that if the combine were done then....you would find the speeds of players have not drastically changed. I doubt that hardly any OL back then would have done as poorly as Orlando Brown Jr.
No...they weren't. The ONLY positions back then that were smaller than those that play today are the interior OL....and the interior DL.
DEs, MLBs, OLBs etc....pretty much played with the same size, speed as players do today.
It is a COMPLETE myth that players now overall are bigger, faster. ONLY the two that I mentioned.....OL, interior DL have gotten bigger...plus QBs are a bit taller and heavier.
JJ Watt and Mean Joe Greene were about the same size: 6'4 280. Deacon Jones DE may have been just a bit more slim: 6'5 275.
But DTs today probably run normally in the 300 lb range....unless you get a Shelton who pushed 330. Most DTs then were probably more like 270-275. But, as noted, the OL ran about that same weight...where today they have that extra 25 lbs on them.
I would wager that if the combine were done then....you would find the speeds of players have not drastically changed. I doubt that hardly any OL back then would have done as poorly as Orlando Brown Jr.
There definitely weren't QB's like big Ben or Deshaun Watson, or Carson Wentz back then. But I guess you can only get so much bigger and faster within a position like LB and lineman. Seems like the TEs are much different now because of all the basketball players coming into the league. Wr seem way bigger now.
I'm in my early 40's, so that was before my time.
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No...they weren't. The ONLY positions back then that were smaller than those that play today are the interior OL....and the interior DL.
DEs, MLBs, OLBs etc....pretty much played with the same size, speed as players do today.
It is a COMPLETE myth that players now overall are bigger, faster. ONLY the two that I mentioned.....OL, interior DL have gotten bigger...plus QBs are a bit taller and heavier.
JJ Watt and Mean Joe Greene were about the same size: 6'4 280. Deacon Jones DE may have been just a bit more slim: 6'5 275.
But DTs today probably run normally in the 300 lb range....unless you get a Shelton who pushed 330. Most DTs then were probably more like 270-275. But, as noted, the OL ran about that same weight...where today they have that extra 25 lbs on them.
I would wager that if the combine were done then....you would find the speeds of players have not drastically changed. I doubt that hardly any OL back then would have done as poorly as Orlando Brown Jr.
There definitely weren't QB's like big Ben or Deshaun Watson, or Carson Wentz back then. But I guess you can only get so much bigger and faster within a position like LB and lineman. Seems like the TEs are much different now because of all the basketball players coming into the league. Wr seem way bigger now.
I'm in my early 40's, so that was before my time.
There definitely weren't QB's like big Ben or Deshaun Watson, or Carson Wentz back then. But I guess you can only get so much bigger and faster within a position like LB and lineman. Seems like the TEs are much different now because of all the basketball players coming into the league. Wr seem way bigger now.
I'm in my early 40's, so that was before my time.
I don't think DeShaun Watson is all that big. is he? But certainly there were some big QBs. Big enough. Bradshaw was 6'3. Fouts 6'3. Stabler was 6'3. Staubach was 6'3. Even bad QBs could be that big: Mike Phipps was 6'3.
But many were between 6'0 and 6'2. Namath, Greise, Starr, Tarkenton, Unitas, Dawson, Jurgenson,
So...like I said, QBs have gotten taller on average. probably by about an inch. Average today may be 6'3. Some shorter, some taller. There were a couple of tall guys in the 60s/70s: Sonny Gibbs was 6'7...but he only lasted like one year with the Lions.
Frank Patrick played from 1970-1972....but made no starts.
So....QBs that tall then were no good......and that has not really changed, has it? Dan McGwire 6'8 no good. Osweiler, Lynch, Ryan Mallet.....each 6'7 suck.
I think, perhaps, the ONLY good QB over like 6'5 has been the 6'6 Joe Flacco. Derek Anderson is 6'6....but he had only 1 good year. Marc Wilson was not too bad....but not to good either. Jamarcus Russell....Scott Mitchell? Surely not.
So, even now it seems there is a maximum of generally 6'5 on the efficacy of QBs.
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