From nobody to the top of the first round of the draft - Josh Allen

[SD_Tom]

 I think UCLA gave up 36+ PPG this season. Look at the box scores and how many games they lost when they scored over 40. That shouldn't happen. 

Clear that one team threw it far more than the other did. So who's carrying who exactly?

[hoorta]

@sd_tom said:

 I think UCLA gave up 36+ PPG this season. Look at the box scores and how many games they lost when they scored over 40. That shouldn't happen. 

Clear that one team threw it far more than the other did. So who's carrying who exactly?

I'll take UCLA out of the equation for a minute. Allen's best games from a completion% were against Gardner-Webb (Cal still hasn't told me what state that school is in) and a not so powerful Air Force. That his apples to apples % comparison to other Mountain West QBs was an eye opener. Of course, Cal says that stat doesn't matter. 

BTW, Rosen completed 88% when they beat Hawaii.

[Flugel]

@calfoxwc said:

9/2	@Iowa	L 24-3	23	40	174	57.5	23	0	2	84.0	8	-10	-1.3	11	0	24.9	45.6
9/9	Gardner-Webb	W 27-0	22	32	328	68.8	47	2	0	175.5	0	0	0.0	0	0	96.7	91.1
9/16	Oregon	L 49-13	9	24	64	37.5	21	0	1	51.6	8	25	3.1	10	1	11.5	15.2
9/23	Hawai'i	W 28-21 (OT)	9	19	92	47.4	25	1	0	105.4	6	17	2.8	22	0	63.8	34.6
9/30	Texas State	W 45-10	14	24	219	58.3	40	3	0	176.2	8	12	1.5	9	0	82.4	66.5
10/14	@Utah State	W 28-23	18	26	208	69.2	28	1	1	141.4	16	36	2.3	16	1	54.1	61.5
10/21	@Boise State	L 24-14	12	27	131	44.4	30	1	2	82.6	18	62	3.4	19	1	48.3	58.5
10/28	New Mexico	W 42-3	16	28	234	57.1	38	4	0	174.5	4	20	5.0	11	1	66.0	46.8
11/4	Colorado State	W 16-13	10	20	138	50.0	21	0	0	108.0	12	60	5.0	18	0	33.4	25.9
11/11	@Air Force	W 28-14	8	11	70	72.7	17	1	0	156.2	4	-15	-3.8	2	1	71.5	53.

Against Iowa he had 0 TD 2 INT and 57.5 comp %   Lost 24-3

Against Oregon he had 0 TD 1 INT and 37.5 comp %  Lost 49-13

Against Hawaii he had 1 TD pass and 47.4 comp %  Won 28-21 in OT

Against Boise State he had 1 TD 2 INT and 44.4 comp %  Lost 24-14

Against Colorado State he had 0 TD and 50.0 comp %  Won 16-13

Against NO defenders at the Indy Combines - he threw countless TD passes and 0 INTs. If we all put the glue down, which scenario (playing against pass rushers and DBs or air) would be more representative of joining an NFL team coming off 1-31 football?   Now, who are you really trying to convince that this guy is the answer to all our prayers - you or your readers?

[TexasAg1969]

@flugel said:

Against NO defenders at the Indy Combines - he threw countless TD passes and 0 INTs. If we all put the glue down, which scenario (playing against pass rushers and DBs or air) would be more representative of joining an NFL team coming off 1-31 football?   Now, who are you really trying to convince that this guy is the answer to all our prayers - you or your readers?

I'm going to laugh if the Broncos end up selecting him. It will be like the second coming of.................................wait for it.............................................Paxton Lynch.

[calfoxwc]

Tex, you never back anything up with any facts, not even invalidly.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2016/02/27/carson-wentz-paxton-lynch-nfl-combine/81036248/

Wentz, Cal’s Jared Goff, Lynch and Michigan State’s Connor Cook – Lynch has the least experience in a pro-style offense.

As a result, some of the footwork on his throws in on-field workouts, designed to mimic a quarterback-center exchange, wasn’t as fluid.

“Nothing is on rhythm and on time, and I’m seeing a lot of that with Paxton,” former quarterback and current NFL Network analyst Kurt Warner said on the broadcast.

He only scored an "18" on the wonderlic.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/2016-nfl-draft-wonderlic-scores-qbs-paxton-lynch/f6jqw46bhtw01bt9oyfwb2jc2

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-scouts-worried-about-paxton-lynch-low-wonderlic-2016-4

Another scout echoed this:

The overall maturity level and disposition, I'd be a bit concerned.

**********************************************************************

    So, Allen DID play a lot of pro style offense, is bigtime mature, loves the game, and is very smart, with about 30 mph more arm.

Lynch threw 56 mph at the combine.

Need facts, Tex, or your opinions don't amount to nothin, and you need legit facts, to explain why you see things the way ya do.

I may be wrong, sure, but I see things per the reading I've done.

[TexasAg1969]

@calfoxwc said:

Need facts, Tex, or your opinions don't amount to nothin, and you need legit facts, to explain why you see things the way ya do.

Here's the only fact I needed on Lynch. The Broncos have obviously moved on by acquiring Keenum and are seriously considering taking another QB high in this draft.

You can go research it if you wish. I don't waste my time on it.

As to Allen I watched 4 of his games live this past year for the entire game. I trust my own evaluation off what I see over someone else's fact. You know kind of like over "there"

EDIT: But I will post this "speculation" by D.J.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Bolt/Daniel-Jeremiah-Browns-take-Sam-Darnold-over-Baker-Mayfield-116479445?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=180320_085700_Cleveland Browns Newsletter&utm_content=Link&liveconnect=1B-C2-1E-69-15-F3-1E-26-47-C2-FB-AF-1F-3D-14-30180320_085700ClevelandBrownsNewsletter

[The Gipper]

@mark-o said:

I think we should draft Christian Chapman at #4 and Rasaad Penny at #1 and have an all SDSU backfield.

Bring back Brian Sipe as a coach.

[The Gipper]

@calfoxwc said:

missing the point.

NOT missing any fuyucking point.   The point is that Rosen is far more accurate. THAT is the point.

UCLA was ranked #7 in the nation the year before rosen got there. OF course rosen had a fast track to wins

and better stats.

Wyoming was not ranked anywhere - they were

So...basically....there is NO point that you are trying to make.  

2014 record 4–8 (2–6 MW) the year before Wyoming got there.

So,  rosen walked into a 7th in the country team, and Allen walked into a losing team that

only went to bowl games in recent years, after Josh Allen was the full time starter.

He led them to the Poinsetta bowl, they lost a close one, 24-21, to BYU.

He led them to the Potato Bowl, and they won, 37-14.

So, rosen didn't raise the level of play of UCLA.

Allen carried the Wyoming football team on his back and raised the level of play dramatically.

Those facts are more fun. I'm done.

With those facts.....the conclusion is:    Rosen would be the far more reliable accurate NFL passer.

[The Gipper]

@sd_tom said:

Side by side, with a few common opponents this season. 

Rosen had 182 more attempts in the same number of games.  Why is that?  

One potential conclusion:  Wyoming didn't trust Allen throwing the ball all that much. 

Another possible conclusion:  Wyoming's schedule was so weak compared to Wyomings, that Wyo. was often ahead and did not have to throw.....where at UCLA Rosen had to pitch it all day long against better competition.

Which could also conclude that Wyoming's defense....against its competition was much better than UCLA's defense against its competition.  I think that is likely the case.  Rosen had to try to play comeback a lot because that defense was giving up like 40 pts per game.

[SD_Tom]

@the-gipper said:

Rosen had 182 more attempts in the same number of games.  Why is that?  

One potential conclusion:  Wyoming didn't trust Allen throwing the ball all that much. 

Another possible conclusion:  Wyoming's schedule was so weak compared to Wyomings, that Wyo. was often ahead and did not have to throw.....where at UCLA Rosen had to pitch it all day long against better competition.

Which could also conclude that Wyoming's defense....against its competition was much better than UCLA's defense against its competition.  I think that is likely the case.  Rosen had to try to play comeback a lot because that defense was giving up like 40 pts per game.

Their defense was a sieve. I think it was 36 pts a game, and over 480 yds a game they allowed on average. 

My buddy is a big UCLA fan, LA native, coaches football in the area... and thinks very highly of Rosen. Of this season, he said "we can't block, can't catch, can't tackle or cover, and can't run the ball. But at least we can win some games and know when to fire a shitty coach unlike the Browns"  LOL

[LondonBrown]

I personally couldn’t care less about win % as there’s more to winning football games than one player 

What I do care about most, especially after Kizer, is a QB that is an accurate thrower. 

Josh Allen is not 

Baker Mayfield certainly is and if he was two inches taller would be the lock #1 pick 

[LogicIsForSquares]

@londonbrown said:

I personally couldn’t care less about win % as there’s more to winning football games than one player 

What I do care about most, especially after Kizer, is a QB that is an accurate thrower. 

Josh Allen is not 

Baker Mayfield certainly is and if he was two inches taller would be the lock #1 pick 

Mayfield's supporting cast and offense made him look much better than he actually is. If he had Rosen's skill set, no one would give a hot crap about his height. 

[SD_Tom]

@londonbrown said:

I personally couldn’t care less about win % as there’s more to winning football games than one player 

What I do care about most, especially after Kizer, is a QB that is an accurate thrower. 

Josh Allen is not 

Baker Mayfield certainly is and if he was two inches taller would be the lock #1 pick 

Many would argue that Rosen is more accurate, as Mayfield threw to more wide open receivers in games than Rosen did, but even if they're roughly the same, I'd rather have a guy who's 6'4 than 6'0. Especially when one has played under center quite a bit and the other never did. 

At this level, they're all "gamers" They all wanna win, they are the best in their respective divisions.... Accuracy and reading defenses will help more than "loving the game"

[hoorta]

@londonbrown said:

I personally couldn’t care less about win % as there’s more to winning football games than one player 

What I do care about most, especially after Kizer, is a QB that is an accurate thrower. 

Josh Allen is not 

Baker Mayfield certainly is and if he was two inches taller would be the lock #1 pick 

^^^^ True.   

@logicisforsquares said:

Mayfield's supporting cast and offense made him look much better than he actually is. If he had Rosen's skill set, no one would give a hot crap about his height. 

Nope, it's 95% about Mayfield's height. Some are trying to make mountains out of molehills about his one off field indiscretion, and some of his on field antics. Better supporting cast for Baker? Sure, but at least when his guy was wide open, he can\could hit them in stride, not like a certain Wyoming quarterback under similar conditions throwing the ball 10 feet over their heads or 10 yards past them. From the tape I've watched, Baker made plenty of NFL level thread the needle throws into tight coverage. To say he can't make them is ridiculous.  

The only knock I've heard about Mayfield is he tends to lock onto his primary target too often. That can be said for just about any college qb. Allen does the same, except he's nowhere near as accurate. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

@hoorta said:

^^^^ True.   

Nope, it's 95% about Mayfield's height. Some are trying to make mountains out of molehills about his one off field indiscretion, and some of his on field antics. Better supporting cast for Baker? Sure, but at least when his guy was wide open, he can\could hit them in stride, not like a certain Wyoming quarterback under similar conditions throwing the ball 10 feet over their heads or 10 yards past them. From the tape I've watched, Baker made plenty of NFL level thread the needle throws into tight coverage. To say he can't make them is ridiculous.  

The only knock I've heard about Mayfield is he tends to lock onto his primary target too often. That can be said for just about any college qb. Allen does the same, except he's nowhere near as accurate. 

If you are comparing Allen to Mayfield then I will say sure he is better than Allen. Just like getting punched in the gut is preferable to having someone hit me in the sack with a nine iron. I would prefer neither.

Mayfield has inflated numbers from the nature of his offense. In the pros, Mayfield’s first read won’t be there and he won’t be able to scramble out of the pocket while he finds everyone else. That isn’t to say he won’t ever figure it out. But the Browns aren’t who I would call a team that can develop a QB.

[Tour2ma]

@calfoxwc said:

Tex, you never back anything up with any facts, not even invalidly.

And there it is... cal's debate standard.

[tiamat63]

Invalid facts....?  Did i just read that?

[Tour2ma]

@hoorta said:

The only knock I've heard about Mayfield is he tends to lock onto his primary target too often.

Again... that's the OU offense... it's a single option pass offense. If it's not there, they ask the QB to move and the WRs to react to that movement. Baker became pretty astute at picking up an open WR once he broke contain. Did a lot more of this in this last season vs. the previous ones.

[calfoxwc]

@tiamat63 said:

Invalid facts....?  Did i just read that?

yes. a red delicious apple is red. But we are talking about an heirloom pear tree.

The color of the apple is fact, but is invalid regarding the subject at hand.

Clear enough?

[calfoxwc]

@tour2ma said:

And there it is... cal's debate standard.

nope - he rants and rants with no links, no reason for his nonsense, on and on.

Got your nose misplaced on your face, or what?