The 'who have you watched lately?' thread.
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Corey Coleman was PFF's highest rated receiver for the 2016 Draft and I called Michael Thomas better.
I appreciate evals and grades, but they're stat nerds that see one thing only - numbers. Not that I don't do something similar, but projections go beyond that.
Thanks for the kudos though, guys. Means a lot.
He's a DT.... I don't think they're just looking at a box score. And I don't think theM picking Coleman as their highest performing WR in college a few years ago invalidates all of PFF because he's performed underwhelmingly here while battling injuries. But, to each their own.
He's a DT.... I don't think they're just looking at a box score. And I don't think theM picking Coleman as their highest performing WR in college a few years ago invalidates all of PFF because he's performed underwhelmingly here while battling injuries. But, to each their own.
I have no argument with that. Where Don Brown uses him is primarily as an interior defender, but that doesn't negate the fact where you play at the collegiate level won't always be your primary in the NFL.
My point wasn't to invalidate PFF's scores but that their grades are just that - numbers. Thus not always translatable to future success. Football isn't always quantified by such things. And that their top graded players and CFB ---> NFL projections aren't always something to abide by either.
Mo, along with every other player, earns those high marks and rightfully so. But to highlight the flaw/anomaly in their rankings is that they don't take into account how those scores are earned schematically speaking.
To return to the CC example, I remember after the draft giving a quick eval about Coleman being the greatest beneficiary of a Baylor offense that routinely gave him 1on1 looks against overwhelmed Big12 DB's while playing in a high volume offense. At the same time his drop percentage being all but completely discounted from their grades.
No one system of evaluation is perfect, they all have their faults. Which is why I feel it's so important to use all of them as an all encompassing tool to one's advantage.
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Hurst played alongside Mone in our 4 lineman sets, and Mone was the more true big run stopping DT. Hurst was more of an interior pass rusher.
We did run a 3 line set sometimes though, without Mone.
Though I don't think anyone is expecting Hurst to come in and be some mammoth run stopper. Maybe a 3-4 end? A DT in a 4-3? Idk.
Clearly the PFF rankings won't directly translate to NFL success. There are a lot of variables there. Just like high school rankings don't directly translate. But, at the same time, you have a better chance to be successful I'm college as a 5* than a 3*. That's the point I'm getting at.
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Hurst played alongside Mone in our 4 lineman sets, and Mone was the more true big run stopping DT. Hurst was more of an interior pass rusher.
We did run a 3 line set sometimes though, without Mone.
Though I don't think anyone is expecting Hurst to come in and be some mammoth run stopper. Maybe a 3-4 end? A DT in a 4-3? Idk.
Clearly the PFF rankings won't directly translate to NFL success. There are a lot of variables there. Just like high school rankings don't directly translate. But, at the same time, you have a better chance to be successful I'm college as a 5* than a 3*. That's the point I'm getting at.
Hurst played alongside Mone in our 4 lineman sets, and Mone was the more true big run stopping DT. Hurst was more of an interior pass rusher.
We did run a 3 line set sometimes though, without Mone.
Though I don't think anyone is expecting Hurst to come in and be some mammoth run stopper. Maybe a 3-4 end? A DT in a 4-3? Idk.
Clearly the PFF rankings won't directly translate to NFL success. There are a lot of variables there. Just like high school rankings don't directly translate. But, at the same time, you have a better chance to be successful I'm college as a 5* than a 3*. That's the point I'm getting at.
You did see my recommendation on being a late 1st round pick and going to the Titans, I trust?
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Yeah, I read it. I said I agree with pretty much all of it. I just think it's worth mentioning he was PFFs top overall player.
Also, we'll have to see how the combine goes. I remember that being when Aaron Donald blew up.
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To Tiamati:
Just curious as to why Woody is not gobbling your knob since you waxed poetic about a MichiShmucker. I don't question your evaluation....except to ask: Is Defensive Tackle a position that the Browns would consider taking with one of their first round picks?
Most of what he said is true. Though it is worth noting Mo was PFF's highest rated player in all of CFB this year.
Also, we just drafted a handful of DT's. I doubt we go after Mo.
Also, we just drafted a handful of DT's. I doubt we go after Mo.
I doubt tia's evaluation are based upon which positions we are likely to draft. He just likes doing evaluations.... albeit probably with some positions preferred over others.
No one system of evaluation is perfect, they all have their faults. Which is why I feel it's so important to use all of them as an all encompassing tool to one's advantage.
Agree... I look as well at various grades, rankings. It's nice when they "validate" my takes, but I don't sweat it when they don't. In either case understanding why, if discernible, they do or don't agree with my take can be useful.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Also, we just drafted a handful of DT's. I doubt we go after Mo.
I doubt tia's evaluation are based upon which positions we are likely to draft. He just likes doing evaluations.... albeit probably with some positions preferred over others.
No one system of evaluation is perfect, they all have their faults. Which is why I feel it's so important to use all of them as an all encompassing tool to one's advantage.
Agree... I look as well at various grades, rankings. It's nice when they "validate" my takes, but I don't sweat it when they don't. In either case understanding why, if discernible, they do or don't agree with my take can be useful.
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Saw the Barkley and Sutton has a camp thread...
I've got one on deck that isn't going to please that crowd.
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On deck...
Poona Ford - not easy finding tape on
and Rasheem Green.... pretty easy starting with the NoD game.
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On deck...
Poona Ford - not easy finding tape on
and Rasheem Green.... pretty easy starting with the NoD game.
and Rasheem Green..
Not that it means anything, but he's a name that the FirstPick sym is taking for us more and more when I GM a team other than the Browns. Sym nabs him to start Round 2.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
For all those that love Harrison from Stanford and think he's a first rounder.... you should be all means love this kid. I give you, Poona Ford.
Vs Baylor. I'll use early examples so you don't have to go far into the tape.@ 0:16 Makes contact and doesn't let the Center anchor. Alternates hands on the punch until he gets the rips/swim past. Good balance and base, keeping his feet under him. Ford makes this play.
@0:45 0Tech heads up, draws double, still has play strength to hold his ground.
@0:55 Eyes up, good pad and balance level, timing feet and hands, reads mesh point and attacks QB's upfield shoulder.
@6:50 1tech shade, fires to inside should of RG and drives too far inside allowing crease. See's cutback and attempts to roll into lane. Undiscplined at times.- Play strength
- Good hand usage
- Balance and footwork sync
- Maintains low center and pad level keeping interior lineman from getting under him.
Consistently holds point against doubles and walks back centers.
You don't see him extending out over his base much. Decent arm length allows him to keep interior lineman from getting hands into him. Also doesn't fire into lineman off base very often, but when he does allows himself to be out leveraged and turned inside/outside. Flows well laterally when aligned outside shade of guard because of adequate wingspan and awareness.
I've watched VS. Baylor, TCU, halfway through the WVU game and I want to re-watch the USC game as well. In this small sample size the trends haven't really changed video to video (yet) No Jeckyll and Hyde play style to my eye. Good motor, strong interior player. I'll have more examples the more I watch but I plan on getting his entire 2017 season in. So far, I really like what I see. I'll have more on him later. -
Not that it means anything, but he's a name that the FirstPick sym is taking for us more and more when I GM a team other than the Browns. Sym nabs him to start Round 2.
I watched the NoD game, vs Texas and then Colorado. Wasn't impressed enough to watch much further. Saw an eval that compares him to Carlos Dunlap... size wise - perhaps. In terms of play strength, first step and availability to make a year 1 impact? Didn't see it flash at any point really.
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I failed to give credit to where it's due - but the Texas defense this past season was good. Very good, in fact. Their putrid offense is what held them down and I feel the other side of the ball became very overlooked because of that. Seeing Ford's name tossed around has me wanting to earmark Elliot (DB) for some watching.
Ford was a big reason for that success.
- time and time again he consistently wins when getting 1 on 1's with the center
- continues to show quickness shooting into a gap and flashes ability as a pass rusher to go along with and interior plugger
- his early down work really allowed the Longhorn defense to be flexible in their fronts including a light box count to play against the more "wide open" b12 offenses
- lateral pursuit for his size reminds me of Jurrel Casey and Geno Atkins at times
Do me a solid and at least watch half. I like this kid every more every time I watch and re-watch him. Want to take a better look at the WVU and maybe even chart some snaps, but work is a callin'....
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The plus I see is how he disrupts OL flow in ZBS... and he does that fairly consistently. But honestly... otherwise I'm not seeing much.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I've been watching some Nick Chubb film, and totally wouldn't mind seeing him in a Browns uniform this season.
I've been watching some Nick Chubb film, and totally wouldn't mind seeing him in a Browns uniform this season.
Did you compare his pre-injury tape with post-injury? Not quite the same back.......................yet. I think those things take a couple of years to regain pre-injury form, so in the long run he may be a better back that we last saw. Sony Michel was playing better than he at the end of this year, but Chubb was still the starter. I'd take either one but I'd also be happy with Guice.
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The plus I see is how he disrupts OL flow in ZBS... and he does that fairly consistently. But honestly... otherwise I'm not seeing much.
The plus I see is how he disrupts OL flow in ZBS... and he does that fairly consistently. But honestly... otherwise I'm not seeing much.
I did notice the ZBS attacks being his discipline against the lateral game... of course that could also be mistaken for lazy defense.
Going to have to differ with you a bit here, I think Ford could be a late round gem in time.
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I've been watching some Nick Chubb film, and totally wouldn't mind seeing him in a Browns uniform this season.
Did you compare his pre-injury tape with post-injury? Not quite the same back.......................yet. I think those things take a couple of years to regain pre-injury form, so in the long run he may be a better back that we last saw. Sony Michel was playing better than he at the end of this year, but Chubb was still the starter. I'd take either one but I'd also be happy with Guice.
Did you compare his pre-injury tape with post-injury? Not quite the same back.......................yet. I think those things take a couple of years to regain pre-injury form, so in the long run he may be a better back that we last saw. Sony Michel was playing better than he at the end of this year, but Chubb was still the starter. I'd take either one but I'd also be happy with Guice.
I just watched his 2017 stuff. Guice might be gone by the time the Browns pick in rd 2.
I think most of this group (Penny, Chubb, Jones, Michel, and Johnson) will be there in rd 2.
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Did you compare his pre-injury tape with post-injury? Not quite the same back.......................yet. I think those things take a couple of years to regain pre-injury form, so in the long run he may be a better back that we last saw. Sony Michel was playing better than he at the end of this year, but Chubb was still the starter. I'd take either one but I'd also be happy with Guice.
I just watched his 2017 stuff. Guice might be gone by the time the Browns pick in rd 2.
I think most of this group (Penny, Chubb, Jones, Michel, and Johnson) will be there in rd 2.
I just watched his 2017 stuff. Guice might be gone by the time the Browns pick in rd 2.
I think most of this group (Penny, Chubb, Jones, Michel, and Johnson) will be there in rd 2.
I agree. And of the remaining I would take Michel. But as soon as Guice goes we will have to trade up into the 1st to get him. He won't be there if Guice goes by 20-24 or so. With so many FA's sighed we don't need all those late rounders anyway. Use 'em for trade up.
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The plus I see is how he disrupts OL flow in ZBS... and he does that fairly consistently. But honestly... otherwise I'm not seeing much.
I did notice the ZBS attacks being his discipline against the lateral game... of course that could also be mistaken for lazy defense.
Going to have to differ with you a bit here, I think Ford could be a late round gem in time.
Going to have to differ with you a bit here, I think Ford could be a late round gem in time.
Vive la difference!
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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