Kevin Hogan Traded
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4 pages and counting on a QB who will not get a season worth of starts in his entire career.
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4 pages and counting on a QB who will not get a season worth of starts in his entire career.
4 pages and counting on a QB who will not get a season worth of starts in his entire career.
Et tu Dutch?
Is your assss bleed from Kevin Hogan or your ongoing feud/frustration with Poe? All I wanted was to see at least 1 alternative to starting the 0-15 Kizer that led the NFL in turnovers. You DO understand it was Kizer we wasted the 2nd round pick on right? 15 attempts to square peg a round hole all with the same result. It's like we watched the first Rocky Movie 15 times in hopes of a different conclusion. Notre Dame was better after he left just like we're gonna be.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
He won a Super Bowl that's itHe won a Super Bowl that's it
I'm gonna go get the papers, get the papers.
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4 pages and counting on a QB who will not get a season worth of starts in his entire career.
Et tu Dutch?
Is your assss bleed from Kevin Hogan or your ongoing feud/frustration with Poe? All I wanted was to see at least 1 alternative to starting the 0-15 Kizer that led the NFL in turnovers. You DO understand it was Kizer we wasted the 2nd round pick on right? 15 attempts to square peg a round hole all with the same result. It's like we watched the first Rocky Movie 15 times in hopes of a different conclusion. Notre Dame was better after he left just like we're gonna be.
Et tu Dutch?
Is your assss bleed from Kevin Hogan or your ongoing feud/frustration with Poe? All I wanted was to see at least 1 alternative to starting the 0-15 Kizer that led the NFL in turnovers. You DO understand it was Kizer we wasted the 2nd round pick on right? 15 attempts to square peg a round hole all with the same result. It's like we watched the first Rocky Movie 15 times in hopes of a different conclusion. Notre Dame was better after he left just like we're gonna be.
It's not really that difficult Flugel, for some reason you are being extremely emotional regarding one Kevin Hogan.
It was obvious that Kizer was/is a project, yet the Browns named him starter from Day 1. That's on the Browns, not Kizer. They kept starting Kizer, though, because they wanted to see what they had in him. I have my doubts about Kizer's future as a starting QB (but he's in a much better place now for his development), but I have zero doubts about the future of one Kevin Hogan. He's a backup QB on a bad team at best. He has no future as a starting QB.
And I will 100% admit that after seeing one and another stupid, mindless Kevin Hogan post from PoG, I laughed and laughed and laughed when Hogan was sent packing for the equivalent of HALF of a sixth round pick. Maybe you find him entertaining, or cute, but I and many, many others do not. Seeing his boy being shipped away was like Christmas Day.
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Ah yes.... I'll never forget Hogan's one start... 1 TD 3 INTs... and 140 yards passing.... 113 net after subtracting his 4 sacks.
I wouldn't expect any fan that cornered himself into over-protective mode for Kizer to want to forget the loss we had the only time he didn't start. Here's some starts I'll never forget in the 15 games Kizer lost while he led the NFL in turnovers as someone hoping we had a better alternative than forfeit:
vrs Balt Kizer threw 0 TD 3 INT plus lost a fumble
vrs Balt in the rematch Kizer threw 0 TD 2 INT and lost a fumble.
vrs TN Kizer threw 0 TD 2 INT
vrs NYJ Kizer threw 0 TD 1 INT and lost a fumble
vrs Jax Kizer threw 1 TD 2 INT and lost 2 fumbles
vrs Chi Kizer threw 0 TD 2 INT
vrs IND Kizer threw 2 TD 3 INT
vrs Cin Kizer threw 0 TD 1 INT
Here's the 2017 comparison:
Kizer 15 Games 0-15 rec 53.6 comp% 6.1 avg 11 TD 22 INT 38 sacks for 226 yds 60.5 rate
Hogan 4 Games 0-1 rec 61.3 comp% 6.9 avg 4 TD 5 INT 6 sacks for 35 yds 71.9 rate
Go ahead and slap a Kizer is wonderful tuxedo on this and splash all the cologne you have to on it.
I wouldn't expect any fan that cornered himself into over-protective mode for Kizer...
Convenient narrative, but of facts not in evidence, my dear Flugsey...
I was not the one to state, "I enjoyed the trend of seeing Hogan outplay Kizer and Kessler at every opportunity." All it takes is one example to dismiss "every" and that's what I did.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Et tu Dutch?
Is your assss bleed from Kevin Hogan or your ongoing feud/frustration with Poe? All I wanted was to see at least 1 alternative to starting the 0-15 Kizer that led the NFL in turnovers. You DO understand it was Kizer we wasted the 2nd round pick on right? 15 attempts to square peg a round hole all with the same result. It's like we watched the first Rocky Movie 15 times in hopes of a different conclusion. Notre Dame was better after he left just like we're gonna be.
It's not really that difficult Flugel, for some reason you are being extremely emotional regarding one Kevin Hogan.
It was obvious that Kizer was/is a project, yet the Browns named him starter from Day 1. That's on the Browns, not Kizer. They kept starting Kizer, though, because they wanted to see what they had in him. I have my doubts about Kizer's future as a starting QB (but he's in a much better place now for his development), but I have zero doubts about the future of one Kevin Hogan. He's a backup QB on a bad team at best. He has no future as a starting QB.
And I will 100% admit that after seeing one and another stupid, mindless Kevin Hogan post from PoG, I laughed and laughed and laughed when Hogan was sent packing for the equivalent of HALF of a sixth round pick. Maybe you find him entertaining, or cute, but I and many, many others do not. Seeing his boy being shipped away was like Christmas Day.
It's not really that difficult Flugel, for some reason you are being extremely emotional regarding one Kevin Hogan.
It was obvious that Kizer was/is a project, yet the Browns named him starter from Day 1. That's on the Browns, not Kizer. They kept starting Kizer, though, because they wanted to see what they had in him. I have my doubts about Kizer's future as a starting QB (but he's in a much better place now for his development), but I have zero doubts about the future of one Kevin Hogan. He's a backup QB on a bad team at best. He has no future as a starting QB.
And I will 100% admit that after seeing one and another stupid, mindless Kevin Hogan post from PoG, I laughed and laughed and laughed when Hogan was sent packing for the equivalent of HALF of a sixth round pick. Maybe you find him entertaining, or cute, but I and many, many others do not. Seeing his boy being shipped away was like Christmas Day.
You're normally one of my favorite smart asses to read and you're a damn good poster most of the time. That said, which one of us complained about how many pages this thread has after contributing several posts to the length of it?
Try to get your mind off Poe long enough so you don't confuse this "Anything but Kizer fan" as me being anything different than that. You can get that if you want to.
If it makes you feel any better I would have held the same regard for Rosie O'Donnell or Ellen DeGeneres as Kevin Hogan as an alternative I'd prefer to the 15 forfeits we got out of the 2nd round QB here. The sad inconvenient truth is when it all played out, Kevin Hogan had better passing stats than Kizer in pretty much every important passing category there is.
Believe it or not Dutch, I join you in wanting to improve the QB position. That said, we didn't just ship away Dorsey's late round QB from KC you are celebrating most. We also shipped away a 19 million $ QB last training camp and a 2nd round QB and a QB we got at the top of round 3. My inventory shows a sum of 4 QBs this FO is left trying to upgrade while getting lower draft values back in exchange for (Kizer and Kessler); while the 2nd round Brock gets us the last pick of round 2 and the late round Hogan gets us to move up from pick #205 to pick #188. Wouldn't it be nice if we started selecting the right QBs so we don't have to keep pretending we're all pumped about the lesser exchange values we keep getting back for these bad QB choices? That's a lot of spinning the wheels only to still need a QB. That probably brings us to the common ground of being glad we have a more experienced FO in charge this year.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I think of that scene EVERY TIME Gip's posts go on repeat...
Goodfellas you all are going to end up like Joe Pesci
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It's not really that difficult Flugel, for some reason you are being extremely emotional regarding one Kevin Hogan.
It was obvious that Kizer was/is a project, yet the Browns named him starter from Day 1. That's on the Browns, not Kizer. They kept starting Kizer, though, because they wanted to see what they had in him. I have my doubts about Kizer's future as a starting QB (but he's in a much better place now for his development), but I have zero doubts about the future of one Kevin Hogan. He's a backup QB on a bad team at best. He has no future as a starting QB.
And I will 100% admit that after seeing one and another stupid, mindless Kevin Hogan post from PoG, I laughed and laughed and laughed when Hogan was sent packing for the equivalent of HALF of a sixth round pick. Maybe you find him entertaining, or cute, but I and many, many others do not. Seeing his boy being shipped away was like Christmas Day.
You're normally one of my favorite smart asses to read and you're a damn good poster most of the time. That said, which one of us complained about how many pages this thread has after contributing several posts to the length of it?
Try to get your mind off Poe long enough so you don't confuse this "Anything but Kizer fan" as me being anything different than that. You can get that if you want to.
If it makes you feel any better I would have held the same regard for Rosie O'Donnell or Ellen DeGeneres as Kevin Hogan as an alternative I'd prefer to the 15 forfeits we got out of the 2nd round QB here. The sad inconvenient truth is when it all played out, Kevin Hogan had better passing stats than Kizer in pretty much every important passing category there is.
Believe it or not Dutch, I join you in wanting to improve the QB position. That said, we didn't just ship away Dorsey's late round QB from KC you are celebrating most. We also shipped away a 19 million $ QB last training camp and a 2nd round QB and a QB we got at the top of round 3. My inventory shows a sum of 4 QBs this FO is left trying to upgrade while getting lower draft values back in exchange for (Kizer and Kessler); while the 2nd round Brock gets us the last pick of round 2 and the late round Hogan gets us to move up from pick #205 to pick #188. Wouldn't it be nice if we started selecting the right QBs so we don't have to keep pretending we're all pumped about the lesser exchange values we keep getting back for these bad QB choices? That's a lot of spinning the wheels only to still need a QB. That probably brings us to the common ground of being glad we have a more experienced FO in charge this year.
Believe it or not Dutch, I join you in wanting to improve the QB position. That said, we didn't just ship away Dorsey's late round QB from KC you are celebrating most. We also shipped away a 19 million $ QB last training camp and a 2nd round QB and a QB we got at the top of round 3. My inventory shows a sum of 4 QBs this FO is left trying to upgrade while getting lower draft values back in exchange for (Kizer and Kessler); while the 2nd round Brock gets us the last pick of round 2 and the late round Hogan gets us to move up from pick #205 to pick #188. Wouldn't it be nice if we started selecting the right QBs so we don't have to keep pretending we're all pumped about the lesser exchange values we keep getting back for these bad QB choices? That's a lot of spinning the wheels only to still need a QB. That probably brings us to the common ground of being glad we have a more experienced FO in charge this year.
I don't have a dog in this fight- but your facts aren't correct. The last pick in the second round is the one we got from the Eagles, passing on Carson Wentz. The Osweiler pick is the #35 overall we got from the Texans to take Brock off their hands.
One of Sashi's better moves, most teams with the cap room would happily buy #35 for $16 million. But don't tell Ghoolie Haslam isn't cheap.
PS- I call the QB moves addition by subtraction. Hogan was the one who wanted out- and Dorsey obliged him.
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Kevin Hogan's start against Houston was one of the worst I have ever seen, closely behind Brian Hoyer's playoff start for the Texans vs. Kansas City. Both are awful, toilet-bowl quality NFL quarterbacks.
Basically, the Redskins "surrendered" 17 draft slots in a round that doesn't matter for the chance to cut Hogan after using his arm during camp.
Starting Hogan instead of Kizer probably would have ended equally as terrible and equally as pointless as trotting Kizer out there every week--but in hindsight, at least one team valued Kizer enough to trade a decent defensive back for him. Hogan was worth a bag of rocks. Kizer at least has a potential opportunity to play in the NFL again... Hogan? Lol, maybe if he's lucky.
John Dorsey has passed on Kevin Hogan twice after drafting him. Even the guy whose job it is to evaluate QBs, who used an actual pick on him, has now said two times that he made a mistake. But I guess a guy named Flugel who's forum warrior caping for him is the guy everyone should listen to.
Or maybe not.
And Hi.
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Hogan simply doesn't have the physical ability to play in the NFL... getting 10 spots in the 6th for a guy whose closest thing to sports should be as commissioner of a fantasy football league is a genius move.
Look, if he was as good as hopes and dreams asserted, he'd have more than a 1:2 TD-INT ratio -- and he'd be able to throw more than a checkdown.
Hate Drew Stanton as the QB3 all you want, and I want to do a lot of that.. but at least he isn't incompetent.
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Hogan simply doesn't have the physical ability to play in the NFL... getting 10 spots in the 6th for a guy whose closest thing to sports should be as commissioner of a fantasy football league is a genius move.
Look, if he was as good as hopes and dreams asserted, he'd have more than a 1:2 TD-INT ratio -- and he'd be able to throw more than a checkdown.
Hate Drew Stanton as the QB3 all you want, and I want to do a lot of that.. but at least he isn't incompetent.
Hate Drew Stanton as the QB3 all you want, and I want to do a lot of that.. but at least he isn't incompetent.
Stanton is there to stand by the clipboard QB and teach him everything he knows from all his years in the league. He's a coach and that's a good thing.
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Kevin Hogan's start against Houston was one of the worst I have ever seen, closely behind Brian Hoyer's playoff start for the Texans vs. Kansas City. Both are awful, toilet-bowl quality NFL quarterbacks.
Basically, the Redskins "surrendered" 17 draft slots in a round that doesn't matter for the chance to cut Hogan after using his arm during camp.
Starting Hogan instead of Kizer probably would have ended equally as terrible and equally as pointless as trotting Kizer out there every week--but in hindsight, at least one team valued Kizer enough to trade a decent defensive back for him. Hogan was worth a bag of rocks. Kizer at least has a potential opportunity to play in the NFL again... Hogan? Lol, maybe if he's lucky.
John Dorsey has passed on Kevin Hogan twice after drafting him. Even the guy whose job it is to evaluate QBs, who used an actual pick on him, has now said two times that he made a mistake. But I guess a guy named Flugel who's forum warrior caping for him is the guy everyone should listen to.
Or maybe not.
And Hi.
Kevin Hogan's start against Houston was one of the worst I have ever seen, closely behind Brian Hoyer's playoff start for the Texans vs. Kansas City. Both are awful, toilet-bowl quality NFL quarterbacks.
Basically, the Redskins "surrendered" 17 draft slots in a round that doesn't matter for the chance to cut Hogan after using his arm during camp.
Starting Hogan instead of Kizer probably would have ended equally as terrible and equally as pointless as trotting Kizer out there every week--but in hindsight, at least one team valued Kizer enough to trade a decent defensive back for him. Hogan was worth a bag of rocks. Kizer at least has a potential opportunity to play in the NFL again... Hogan? Lol, maybe if he's lucky.
John Dorsey has passed on Kevin Hogan twice after drafting him. Even the guy whose job it is to evaluate QBs, who used an actual pick on him, has now said two times that he made a mistake. But I guess a guy named Flugel who's forum warrior caping for him is the guy everyone should listen to.
Or maybe not.
And Hi.
Ya, Hogan blew, any reason to throw Hoyer under the bus with him? Personal vendetta? Hoyer is a backup. There is room in the NFL for guys like that. Unlike ... Johnny?
Zombo
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I think of that scene EVERY TIME Gip's posts go on repeat...
Goodfellas you all are going to end up like Joe Pesci
Goodfellas you all are going to end up like Joe Pesci
A little Goodfellas trivia: In the movie, an unnamed Lucchese soldier whacks Tommy DeSimone (who Joe Pesci plays in the movie) in the basement of a house that DeSimone thought would be where he was being "made". The true story? A Gambino soldier whacked Tommy DeSimone in the basement of an Italian restaurant in the Bronx. The Gambino soldier's name: John Gotti.
https://nypost.com/2015/07/12/new-book-reveals-john-gottis-role-in-goodfellas-murder/
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Kevin Hogan's start against Houston was one of the worst I have ever seen, closely behind Brian Hoyer's playoff start for the Texans vs. Kansas City. Both are awful, toilet-bowl quality NFL quarterbacks.
Basically, the Redskins "surrendered" 17 draft slots in a round that doesn't matter for the chance to cut Hogan after using his arm during camp.
Starting Hogan instead of Kizer probably would have ended equally as terrible and equally as pointless as trotting Kizer out there every week--but in hindsight, at least one team valued Kizer enough to trade a decent defensive back for him. Hogan was worth a bag of rocks. Kizer at least has a potential opportunity to play in the NFL again... Hogan? Lol, maybe if he's lucky.
John Dorsey has passed on Kevin Hogan twice after drafting him. Even the guy whose job it is to evaluate QBs, who used an actual pick on him, has now said two times that he made a mistake. But I guess a guy named Flugel who's forum warrior caping for him is the guy everyone should listen to.
Or maybe not.
And Hi.
Ya, Hogan blew, any reason to throw Hoyer under the bus with him? Personal vendetta? Hoyer is a backup. There is room in the NFL for guys like that. Unlike ... Johnny?
Zombo
Zombo said:
Ya, Hogan blew, any reason to throw Hoyer under the bus with him? Personal vendetta? Hoyer is a backup. There is room in the NFL for guys like that. Unlike ... Johnny?
Zombo
I saw a post game interview with JM this past Sat. and he talked very emotionally about getting a normal life after the craziness that he was when with Cleveland. He was happy just to be on the field again and more than willing to play in Canada for a couple of years if no one in the NFL wanted to take a chance with him again. He talked about his marriage and changing into someone who liked a real "homebody" life with her. It was the most "authentic" interview I have ever seen him give. I give him a better than 50% chance of doing well in the CFL and making it back to the NFL in 2-3 years. I didn't see the immature "kid" we saw come to Cleveland in that interview. But I did see a love of the game back in him. And a willingness to do it all differently that was real and not just some interviewing BS. The emotion was real and not "canned" for TV.
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Many people in recovery are convincing and persuasive like that.
Hopefully he will go the CFL route and prove his way back into the NFL.
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Zombo said:
Ya, Hogan blew, any reason to throw Hoyer under the bus with him? Personal vendetta? Hoyer is a backup. There is room in the NFL for guys like that. Unlike ... Johnny?
Zombo
I saw a post game interview with JM this past Sat. and he talked very emotionally about getting a normal life after the craziness that he was when with Cleveland. He was happy just to be on the field again and more than willing to play in Canada for a couple of years if no one in the NFL wanted to take a chance with him again. He talked about his marriage and changing into someone who liked a real "homebody" life with her. It was the most "authentic" interview I have ever seen him give. I give him a better than 50% chance of doing well in the CFL and making it back to the NFL in 2-3 years. I didn't see the immature "kid" we saw come to Cleveland in that interview. But I did see a love of the game back in him. And a willingness to do it all differently that was real and not just some interviewing BS. The emotion was real and not "canned" for TV.
I saw a post game interview with JM this past Sat. and he talked very emotionally about getting a normal life after the craziness that he was when with Cleveland. He was happy just to be on the field again and more than willing to play in Canada for a couple of years if no one in the NFL wanted to take a chance with him again. He talked about his marriage and changing into someone who liked a real "homebody" life with her. It was the most "authentic" interview I have ever seen him give. I give him a better than 50% chance of doing well in the CFL and making it back to the NFL in 2-3 years. I didn't see the immature "kid" we saw come to Cleveland in that interview. But I did see a love of the game back in him. And a willingness to do it all differently that was real and not just some interviewing BS. The emotion was real and not "canned" for TV.
If all that is true, and I'm not saying it's not ... Manziel doesn't have the body or physical gifts to be an NFL starter. He's still under 6 foot, 205 poinds or so, compare that to a Deshaun Watson, a similar style but 6'4 220 with more arm and better touch. I don't see Manziel making it through a 16 game schedule if he ever beat out 3 NFL QBs for a starting job, which he would never do.
Zombo
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I saw a post game interview with JM this past Sat. and he talked very emotionally about getting a normal life after the craziness that he was when with Cleveland. He was happy just to be on the field again and more than willing to play in Canada for a couple of years if no one in the NFL wanted to take a chance with him again. He talked about his marriage and changing into someone who liked a real "homebody" life with her. It was the most "authentic" interview I have ever seen him give. I give him a better than 50% chance of doing well in the CFL and making it back to the NFL in 2-3 years. I didn't see the immature "kid" we saw come to Cleveland in that interview. But I did see a love of the game back in him. And a willingness to do it all differently that was real and not just some interviewing BS. The emotion was real and not "canned" for TV.
If all that is true, and I'm not saying it's not ... Manziel doesn't have the body or physical gifts to be an NFL starter. He's still under 6 foot, 205 poinds or so, compare that to a Deshaun Watson, a similar style but 6'4 220 with more arm and better touch. I don't see Manziel making it through a 16 game schedule if he ever beat out 3 NFL QBs for a starting job, which he would never do.
Zombo
Zombo said:
If all that is true, and I'm not saying it's not ... Manziel doesn't have the body or physical gifts to be an NFL starter. He's still under 6 foot, 205 poinds or so, compare that to a Deshaun Watson, a similar style but 6'4 220 with more arm and better touch. I don't see Manziel making it through a 16 game schedule if he ever beat out 3 NFL QBs for a starting job, which he would never do.
Zombo
It would require the learning disciple of a Drew Brees. He's a long way from that, but as a person he appears to be serious about both sobriety and maintaining mental health. There's a tough learning curve for that as well, but I'm just hearing what I would be listening for as a counselor regardless of talent. He may end up staying in the CFL for less $$, but be happier as a person in the long run. I'm thinking of going to see him play this sat. since the stadium the Spring league is using is just down the road about 10 miles or so. Maybe I can get him to sign my primo Manziel Browns jersey for my grandson.
EDIT: I think the one coach that would be interested enough to pick him up after some successful time in the CFL would be John Gruden. I think he likes him as a player and a person. But like any NFL coach he will need to see a track record on Johnny Sober Football.
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Trading Hogan was the only thing we could next to cutting him. Hogan asked for the ability to work a trade. It sounded then like his agent already had a buyer. Moving up 16 slots in whatever round it was was a good deal.
We just signed TT to start. We just signed Stanton to back-up and be the mentor for whoever we draft at 1 or 4. No way we were going to keep 4 QBs. I like Hogan. I felt we should have been playing him over Flattop, it is what it is. I knew since we signed Stanton that Hogan was toast.
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Kevin Hogan's start against Houston was one of the worst I have ever seen, closely behind Brian Hoyer's playoff start for the Texans vs. Kansas City. Both are awful, toilet-bowl quality NFL quarterbacks.
Basically, the Redskins "surrendered" 17 draft slots in a round that doesn't matter for the chance to cut Hogan after using his arm during camp.
Starting Hogan instead of Kizer probably would have ended equally as terrible and equally as pointless as trotting Kizer out there every week--but in hindsight, at least one team valued Kizer enough to trade a decent defensive back for him. Hogan was worth a bag of rocks. Kizer at least has a potential opportunity to play in the NFL again... Hogan? Lol, maybe if he's lucky.
John Dorsey has passed on Kevin Hogan twice after drafting him. Even the guy whose job it is to evaluate QBs, who used an actual pick on him, has now said two times that he made a mistake. But I guess a guy named Flugel who's forum warrior caping for him is the guy everyone should listen to.
Or maybe not.
And Hi.
Ya, Hogan blew, any reason to throw Hoyer under the bus with him? Personal vendetta? Hoyer is a backup. There is room in the NFL for guys like that. Unlike ... Johnny?
Zombo
Zombo said:
Ya, Hogan blew, any reason to throw Hoyer under the bus with him? Personal vendetta? Hoyer is a backup. There is room in the NFL for guys like that. Unlike ... Johnny?
Zombo
I've watched a lot of bad QBs, but those 2 games really stood out to me as the worst I've seen, right alongside several DA games.
John is a capable QB, certainly gifted enough to be a backup, but he's a dickhead.
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Zombo said:
Ya, Hogan blew, any reason to throw Hoyer under the bus with him? Personal vendetta? Hoyer is a backup. There is room in the NFL for guys like that. Unlike ... Johnny?
Zombo
I've watched a lot of bad QBs, but those 2 games really stood out to me as the worst I've seen, right alongside several DA games.
John is a capable QB, certainly gifted enough to be a backup, but he's a dickhead.
I've watched a lot of bad QBs, but those 2 games really stood out to me as the worst I've seen, right alongside several DA games.
John is a capable QB, certainly gifted enough to be a backup, but he's a dickhead.
Those were indeed doosies.
As far as worst ever games that I have seen a QB play a couple that stand out are Warren Moon going into the Dawgpound in 1986: 5-23 68 yards o TD 4 Ints and Jeff Garcia, who posted a zero QB rating for one of his first starts for us against Dallas.
I remember Scott Mitchell actually winning a game for the Bengals without completing a pass, Corey Dillon rushed for 270 or something.
I didn't see the Buffalo rookie throw 5 Ints in one half last year, but the "Highlights" were outstanding.
Zombo
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