*GAMEDAY THREADS* Eagles & Lions
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Zombo said:
Nope I think we're watching the same player.
A talented back getting his exposure to the NFL. That's what the preseason is for.
What do you like so much about Matt Dayes?
Zombo
The initial stance and subsequent running bother me. He's simply too high from my vantage point. On top of that his head and eyes seem to be square with his frame - tunnel vision. That hit by Barnett literally pushed him outside of edge contain and forced him out that way. Plus, even for a big man, I could swear he runs very heavy footed.
What do I like about Dayes? Pad level, patience, cutback vision, decisiveness and ability to press defenders in the hole before taking his lane.
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Cool - So did Reggie Bush compared to Matt Forte'. What's your point here?
My point is that Chubb is a much, much better NFL RB prospect than Dayes.
Reggie Bush had over 9,000 yards in the NFL, I'd take that from Chubb ... So you think Dayes is Matt Forte?
What does that even mean? What scale?
It means if we cut Dayes on September 1st, there will be at least a dozen guys just as good or better available to pick up.
You need me to explain "NFL scale"? Sound it out.
I can tell you about a ton of former greats that had shitty players.
You think Chubbs is a shitty player? By watching a couple preseason games? OK.
I think he's an outstanding talent and our staff will get the most out of him.
Zombo
Zombo said:
My point is that Chubb is a much, much better NFL RB prospect than Dayes.
Reggie Bush had over 9,000 yards in the NFL, I'd take that from Chubb ... So you think Dayes is Matt Forte?
It means if we cut Dayes on September 1st, there will be at least a dozen guys just as good or better available to pick up.
You need me to explain "NFL scale"? Sound it out.
You think Chubbs is a shitty player? By watching a couple preseason games? OK.
I think he's an outstanding talent and our staff will get the most out of him.
Zombo
You have no point, college production means Sheet. You have seen this time and time again.
My pointing out Reggie and Matt was draft position vs production.
I don't think Chubbs is shitty but I don't like what I see this early.
We good now?
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Zombo said:
My point is that Chubb is a much, much better NFL RB prospect than Dayes.
Reggie Bush had over 9,000 yards in the NFL, I'd take that from Chubb ... So you think Dayes is Matt Forte?
It means if we cut Dayes on September 1st, there will be at least a dozen guys just as good or better available to pick up.
You need me to explain "NFL scale"? Sound it out.
You think Chubbs is a shitty player? By watching a couple preseason games? OK.
I think he's an outstanding talent and our staff will get the most out of him.
Zombo
You have no point, college production means Sheet. You have seen this time and time again.
My pointing out Reggie and Matt was draft position vs production.
I don't think Chubbs is shitty but I don't like what I see this early.
We good now?
You have no point, college production means Sheet. You have seen this time and time again.
My pointing out Reggie and Matt was draft position vs production.
I don't think Chubbs is shitty but I don't like what I see this early.
We good now?
Does bigger and faster mean sheet too?
John Dorsey took one look at the running back room and went out and signed Hyde to a big deal and then spent #35 on stud Chubb ... but fucking Matt Dayes is your #2.
I guess Dorsey and the Browns coaching staff don't know sheet either since they've got Dayes buried fourth on the depth chart.
You keep riding Matthew Dayes to the finish line ... we're real good.
Z
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You have no point, college production means Sheet. You have seen this time and time again.
My pointing out Reggie and Matt was draft position vs production.
I don't think Chubbs is shitty but I don't like what I see this early.
We good now?
Does bigger and faster mean sheet too?
John Dorsey took one look at the running back room and went out and signed Hyde to a big deal and then spent #35 on stud Chubb ... but fucking Matt Dayes is your #2.
I guess Dorsey and the Browns coaching staff don't know sheet either since they've got Dayes buried fourth on the depth chart.
You keep riding Matthew Dayes to the finish line ... we're real good.
Z
Zombo said:
Does bigger and faster mean sheet too?
John Dorsey took one look at the running back room and went out and signed Hyde to a big deal and then spent #35 on stud Chubb ... but Shmucking Matt Dayes is your #2.
I guess Dorsey and the Browns coaching staff don't know sheet either since they've got Dayes buried fourth on the depth chart.
You keep riding Matthew Dayes to the finish line ... we're real good.
Z
bigger and faster doesn't always = better. Again, you have little point here.
John Dorsey also drafted Mahomes... a QB who is about to throw 20 INT's this year. The man isn't infallible. Also I'm not saying Dayes is a premier back, so I again fail to grasp the point you're trying to argue. As it stands I believe he is a more efficient runner.
Dayes is the 3rd RB depending on how you look at it.
Not riding him to the finish, I just don't like what I've seen from Chubb so far and have some of the film to prove it. His high stance alone contributes to some choppy footwork that is costing him lateral movement as well.
edit: Would like to say that Chubb has had a couple runs that make me go "Ok, that's nice" And some cringe worthy ones as well... the Barnett one last night. That isn't to say he can't get better and doesn't deserve a shot to prove that in time. I just believe he needs some work on the fundamentals and cerebral aspect of the game.
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Another random observation - Baker needs to work on the Play action fakes. That two hand Sheet isn't fooling anyone.
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What is Duke’s role in this offense?
3rd down back.
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Another random observation - Baker needs to work on the Play action fakes. That two hand Sheet isn't fooling anyone.
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Zombo said:
Does bigger and faster mean sheet too?
John Dorsey took one look at the running back room and went out and signed Hyde to a big deal and then spent #35 on stud Chubb ... but Shmucking Matt Dayes is your #2.
I guess Dorsey and the Browns coaching staff don't know sheet either since they've got Dayes buried fourth on the depth chart.
You keep riding Matthew Dayes to the finish line ... we're real good.
Z
bigger and faster doesn't always = better. Again, you have little point here.
John Dorsey also drafted Mahomes... a QB who is about to throw 20 INT's this year. The man isn't infallible. Also I'm not saying Dayes is a premier back, so I again fail to grasp the point you're trying to argue. As it stands I believe he is a more efficient runner.
Dayes is the 3rd RB depending on how you look at it.
Not riding him to the finish, I just don't like what I've seen from Chubb so far and have some of the film to prove it. His high stance alone contributes to some choppy footwork that is costing him lateral movement as well.
edit: Would like to say that Chubb has had a couple runs that make me go "Ok, that's nice" And some cringe worthy ones as well... the Barnett one last night. That isn't to say he can't get better and doesn't deserve a shot to prove that in time. I just believe he needs some work on the fundamentals and cerebral aspect of the game.
bigger and faster doesn't always = better. Again, you have little point here.
so, Dayes, who I do like, is not a rookie. Chubb is a rookie. Got it?
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/players-roster/matt-dayes/
5'9", 205. ? was in the league one whole year?
ran 5 times for 13 yards? about the same size as Duke? That's 2.6 yards per carry?
and he is your star runner compared to CHUBB?
Chubb is a different runner he's a very agile, powerful old school runner.
dang, give a kid some regular season games before judging him per some nonsense standards.
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Meanwhile, back at the ranch -
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-qb-tyrod-taylor-fine-after-hand-injury-won-t-miss-time
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still at the ranch... Ward will be fine.
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/08/denzel_ward_back_spasms_but_ok.html
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bigger and faster doesn't always = better. Again, you have little point here.
so, Dayes, who I do like, is not a rookie. Chubb is a rookie. Got it?
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/players-roster/matt-dayes/
5'9", 205. ? was in the league one whole year?
ran 5 times for 13 yards? about the same size as Duke? That's 2.6 yards per carry?
and he is your star runner compared to CHUBB?
Chubb is a different runner he's a very agile, powerful old school runner.
dang, give a kid some regular season games before judging him per some nonsense standards.
so, Dayes, who I do like, is not a rookie. Chubb is a rookie. Got it?
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/players-roster/matt-dayes/
5'9", 205. ? was in the league one whole year?
ran 5 times for 13 yards? about the same size as Duke? That's 2.6 yards per carry?
and he is your star runner compared to CHUBB?
Chubb is a different runner he's a very agile, powerful old school runner.
dang, give a kid some regular season games before judging him per some nonsense standards.
Are you both Shmucking Retarded or is there something I typed you missed or in some weird way added to in your mind?
Where, please point out this specifically where I said "star runner". Please... show me. I said I believe Dayes to be the more efficient runner for the moment.
Then for good measure I follow up with an edit saying Chubb needs to get back to some basics - pad level, eye movement, smoother footwork. But somehow this is what you arrived at. Meanwhile you attempt to tell me how Chubb is agile, which really couldn't be further from the truth.
I'm going off practice and pre-season, just like the coaches. Again, to further this point - I believe Chubb can (and should) show out better. Right now he needs some attention to the fundamentals which I'm sure he will be getting an earful of this week.
Is there ANY confusion with what I've said?
@ 3:34 I can find several instances of this type of Barkley level dancing and hesitation during this pre-season alone. Which is where I come back to being an efficient runner. You cannot stop your feet like that with consistency, then expect to gear back up and attack the Bgap/3 hole. Doesn't Shmucking work like that. The word I use - efficiency. That's how you keep the chains moving. **** Double edit**** Just going off his eyes and when his stance is square and feet not moving, he came off the initial read late and stopped his feet. To me, this would say my RB's eyes and footwork are out of sync. I'm also seeing some evidence of Chubb simply sprinting to the line on these interior gap runs BUT, on some of the zone and lateral work we do from the gun he is more likely to find the crease because I believe that lateral step forces him to slow down just a tad and gives him the ability to find his gap. check it out a few plays before @ 3:25. Get back to me because I would LOVE to hear an opinion as well thought out as mine thus far.
**** Triple edit****
I wonder why this sounded so familiar. I had the exactly same knock on Guice when I watched him on film. Said this all the way back in November... and it feels like a current scenario with Nick.
Cons - Patience. I can't tell if it's him just trying to outplay his line or wanting to sprint right to the second level. Often times on pulls he would be on his blockers butt and backfeet. A few times he couldn't setup the defender off the blocker for a secondary move because he was too busy running into the pulling lineman. A few times he ran counter pulls with great effectiveness but those appeared to be weakside. If he's running to the strength he tends to get ahead of himself.
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well, Tiam, all that should be gleaned from your nonsense criteria of "better" is your fave is the second year player, with a 2.6 career average per carry, only a third down back with a lack of strength to break a tackle...
got that, Tiamsies? analyze that, bigshot. They are different players - Chubb is a powerful three down back, while Dayes is a third down back that lacks strength.
Read up on both players. They are different players.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/matt-dayes?id=2557987
Dayes has fine vision. Chubb has speed, agility, and serious power. They are different type of rb's.
Meanwhile, Tiam the Ham,
“To me, I don’t really feel like he’s a rookie,” running back Carlos Hyde said.
“Usually, rookies come in and be all kind of lost, just trying to feel their way out. I think Nick understands what’s going on. He understands what being a pro is, and he’s definitely been on top of the playbook, been on top of his game, so he’s been doing a pretty good job.”
Running back Duke Johnson Jr. added, “He’s old school. The way he carries himself, the way he dresses in practice, it drives me crazy. His helmet, his face mask, he doesn’t really wear gloves all the time. He’s in the wrong generation.”
Despite sharing carries with Sony Michel, who was selected by the New England Patriots late in the first round of the 2018 NFL Draft, the 5-foot-10, 225-pound Chubb rushed for 4,769 yards and 44 touchdowns on 758 carries for the Bulldogs.
A native of Cedartown, Georgia, Chubb eclipsed the 200-carry and 1,000-yard marks in three of his four seasons “between the hedges,” and helped the Bulldogs reach the 2018 College Football Playoff National Championship Game despite having a freshman quarterback at the helm of the offense.
“I think Chubb’s a beast,” Hyde said. “He’s been doing a great job staying on top of the playbook, coming in. The way he finishes, everything about the kid is good. He’s just an overall player that’s going to come in, help us win and bring a lot to the team.”
Chubb began the 1,000-yard rushing campaigns with a career-high 1,547 yards and 14 touchdowns on 219 carries during his freshman season.
After being limited to just 747 yards on 92 carries in his sophomore year, Chubb punctuated his collegiate career with back-to-back 1,100-yard seasons.
Chubb rushed for 1,130 yards and eight scores on 224 carries in 2016, and finished his career with 1,345 yards and 15 touchdowns on 223 attempts last fall.
In addition to his rushing statistics, Chubb accounted for 359 yards and four touchdowns on 31 career receptions for the Bulldogs.
“He’s a workhorse,” linebacker Christian Kirksey said. “You saw him in college. He’s a guy, he’s not going to do too many shakes. He’s gonna make one cut and go downhill, try to run you over, maybe stiff-arm you, but he’s definitely a workhorse.”
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different types of players, Tiam. Your little Tiam critique is crapola.
I wonder how a rb can run for "4,769 yards and 44 touchdowns on 758 carries for the Bulldogs." with a "Tiamsies doesn't like Chubb's vision" goin on.
Furthermore,
Chubb - 53 yards and one touchdown on 11 carries against the Bills. That is just shy of 5 yards per carry.
For a rookie. In his second preseason game in the NFL.
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so, Dayes, who I do like, is not a rookie. Chubb is a rookie. Got it?
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/players-roster/matt-dayes/
5'9", 205. ? was in the league one whole year?
ran 5 times for 13 yards? about the same size as Duke? That's 2.6 yards per carry?
and he is your star runner compared to CHUBB?
Chubb is a different runner he's a very agile, powerful old school runner.
dang, give a kid some regular season games before judging him per some nonsense standards.
Are you both Shmucking Retarded or is there something I typed you missed or in some weird way added to in your mind?
Where, please point out this specifically where I said "star runner". Please... show me. I said I believe Dayes to be the more efficient runner for the moment.
Then for good measure I follow up with an edit saying Chubb needs to get back to some basics - pad level, eye movement, smoother footwork. But somehow this is what you arrived at. Meanwhile you attempt to tell me how Chubb is agile, which really couldn't be further from the truth.
I'm going off practice and pre-season, just like the coaches. Again, to further this point - I believe Chubb can (and should) show out better. Right now he needs some attention to the fundamentals which I'm sure he will be getting an earful of this week.
Is there ANY confusion with what I've said?
@ 3:34 I can find several instances of this type of Barkley level dancing and hesitation during this pre-season alone. Which is where I come back to being an efficient runner. You cannot stop your feet like that with consistency, then expect to gear back up and attack the Bgap/3 hole. Doesn't Shmucking work like that. The word I use - efficiency. That's how you keep the chains moving. **** Double edit**** Just going off his eyes and when his stance is square and feet not moving, he came off the initial read late and stopped his feet. To me, this would say my RB's eyes and footwork are out of sync. I'm also seeing some evidence of Chubb simply sprinting to the line on these interior gap runs BUT, on some of the zone and lateral work we do from the gun he is more likely to find the crease because I believe that lateral step forces him to slow down just a tad and gives him the ability to find his gap. check it out a few plays before @ 3:25. Get back to me because I would LOVE to hear an opinion as well thought out as mine thus far.
**** Triple edit****
I wonder why this sounded so familiar. I had the exactly same knock on Guice when I watched him on film. Said this all the way back in November... and it feels like a current scenario with Nick.
Cons - Patience. I can't tell if it's him just trying to outplay his line or wanting to sprint right to the second level. Often times on pulls he would be on his blockers butt and backfeet. A few times he couldn't setup the defender off the blocker for a secondary move because he was too busy running into the pulling lineman. A few times he ran counter pulls with great effectiveness but those appeared to be weakside. If he's running to the strength he tends to get ahead of himself.
Are you both Shmucking Retarded or is there something I typed you missed or in some weird way added to in your mind?
Where, please point out this specifically where I said "star runner". Please... show me. I said I believe Dayes to be the more efficient runner for the moment.
Then for good measure I follow up with an edit saying Chubb needs to get back to some basics - pad level, eye movement, smoother footwork. But somehow this is what you arrived at. Meanwhile you attempt to tell me how Chubb is agile, which really couldn't be further from the truth.
I'm going off practice and pre-season, just like the coaches. Again, to further this point - I believe Chubb can (and should) show out better. Right now he needs some attention to the fundamentals which I'm sure he will be getting an earful of this week.
Is there ANY confusion with what I've said?
@ 3:34 I can find several instances of this type of Barkley level dancing and hesitation during this pre-season alone. Which is where I come back to being an efficient runner. You cannot stop your feet like that with consistency, then expect to gear back up and attack the Bgap/3 hole. Doesn't Shmucking work like that. The word I use - efficiency. That's how you keep the chains moving. **** Double edit**** Just going off his eyes and when his stance is square and feet not moving, he came off the initial read late and stopped his feet. To me, this would say my RB's eyes and footwork are out of sync. I'm also seeing some evidence of Chubb simply sprinting to the line on these interior gap runs BUT, on some of the zone and lateral work we do from the gun he is more likely to find the crease because I believe that lateral step forces him to slow down just a tad and gives him the ability to find his gap. check it out a few plays before @ 3:25. Get back to me because I would LOVE to hear an opinion as well thought out as mine thus far.
**** Triple edit****
I wonder why this sounded so familiar. I had the exactly same knock on Guice when I watched him on film. Said this all the way back in November... and it feels like a current scenario with Nick.
Cons - Patience. I can't tell if it's him just trying to outplay his line or wanting to sprint right to the second level. Often times on pulls he would be on his blockers butt and backfeet. A few times he couldn't setup the defender off the blocker for a secondary move because he was too busy running into the pulling lineman. A few times he ran counter pulls with great effectiveness but those appeared to be weakside. If he's running to the strength he tends to get ahead of himself.
Glad you bought your junior scout kit and everything, but there is no way anyone but you has Dayes ahead of Chubb.
Not the coaches, not the GM, not the people actually paid to scout ... and it ain't even close.
Dayes is ordinary. And he's 4th string. And the only way he makes the team is as a 4th string back ... and with Peppers handling KRs ... that ain't likely.
Z
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I like Chubb and Dayes.
Chubb was terrible game 1, but has looked better with every successive week. Week 1 his upright stance per-snap was notable. Less so since and Th nite he finished a couple runs with pads lowered.
Vision? TBD in my book. Nothing has jumped out as a concern to this point.
I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I like Chubb and Dayes.
Chubb was terrible game 1, but has looked better with every successive week. Week 1 his upright stance per-snap was notable. Less so since and Th nite he finished a couple runs with pads lowered.
Vision? TBD in my book. Nothing has jumped out as a concern to this point.
I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
Good point - but why? I suppose, not knowing, that once in a while, a two back backfield would force the lb's to crowd the los, worry the safeties, and make a simple TE pass a lot easier?
I really don't know, but I wonder.... ?
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I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
Good point - but why? I suppose, not knowing, that once in a while, a two back backfield would force the lb's to crowd the los, worry the safeties, and make a simple TE pass a lot easier?
I really don't know, but I wonder.... ?
Good point - but why? I suppose, not knowing, that once in a while, a two back backfield would force the lb's to crowd the los, worry the safeties, and make a simple TE pass a lot easier?
I really don't know, but I wonder.... ?
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LOL?Throwback offense from the Twilight Zone.
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