*GAMEDAY THREADS* Eagles & Lions
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What is Duke’s role in this offense?
3rd down back.
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Another random observation - Baker needs to work on the Play action fakes. That two hand Sheet isn't fooling anyone.
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Zombo said:
Does bigger and faster mean sheet too?
John Dorsey took one look at the running back room and went out and signed Hyde to a big deal and then spent #35 on stud Chubb ... but Shmucking Matt Dayes is your #2.
I guess Dorsey and the Browns coaching staff don't know sheet either since they've got Dayes buried fourth on the depth chart.
You keep riding Matthew Dayes to the finish line ... we're real good.
Z
bigger and faster doesn't always = better. Again, you have little point here.
John Dorsey also drafted Mahomes... a QB who is about to throw 20 INT's this year. The man isn't infallible. Also I'm not saying Dayes is a premier back, so I again fail to grasp the point you're trying to argue. As it stands I believe he is a more efficient runner.
Dayes is the 3rd RB depending on how you look at it.
Not riding him to the finish, I just don't like what I've seen from Chubb so far and have some of the film to prove it. His high stance alone contributes to some choppy footwork that is costing him lateral movement as well.
edit: Would like to say that Chubb has had a couple runs that make me go "Ok, that's nice" And some cringe worthy ones as well... the Barnett one last night. That isn't to say he can't get better and doesn't deserve a shot to prove that in time. I just believe he needs some work on the fundamentals and cerebral aspect of the game.
bigger and faster doesn't always = better. Again, you have little point here.
so, Dayes, who I do like, is not a rookie. Chubb is a rookie. Got it?
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/players-roster/matt-dayes/
5'9", 205. ? was in the league one whole year?
ran 5 times for 13 yards? about the same size as Duke? That's 2.6 yards per carry?
and he is your star runner compared to CHUBB?
Chubb is a different runner he's a very agile, powerful old school runner.
dang, give a kid some regular season games before judging him per some nonsense standards.
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Meanwhile, back at the ranch -
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-qb-tyrod-taylor-fine-after-hand-injury-won-t-miss-time
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still at the ranch... Ward will be fine.
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/08/denzel_ward_back_spasms_but_ok.html
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bigger and faster doesn't always = better. Again, you have little point here.
so, Dayes, who I do like, is not a rookie. Chubb is a rookie. Got it?
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/players-roster/matt-dayes/
5'9", 205. ? was in the league one whole year?
ran 5 times for 13 yards? about the same size as Duke? That's 2.6 yards per carry?
and he is your star runner compared to CHUBB?
Chubb is a different runner he's a very agile, powerful old school runner.
dang, give a kid some regular season games before judging him per some nonsense standards.
so, Dayes, who I do like, is not a rookie. Chubb is a rookie. Got it?
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/players-roster/matt-dayes/
5'9", 205. ? was in the league one whole year?
ran 5 times for 13 yards? about the same size as Duke? That's 2.6 yards per carry?
and he is your star runner compared to CHUBB?
Chubb is a different runner he's a very agile, powerful old school runner.
dang, give a kid some regular season games before judging him per some nonsense standards.
Are you both Shmucking Retarded or is there something I typed you missed or in some weird way added to in your mind?
Where, please point out this specifically where I said "star runner". Please... show me. I said I believe Dayes to be the more efficient runner for the moment.
Then for good measure I follow up with an edit saying Chubb needs to get back to some basics - pad level, eye movement, smoother footwork. But somehow this is what you arrived at. Meanwhile you attempt to tell me how Chubb is agile, which really couldn't be further from the truth.
I'm going off practice and pre-season, just like the coaches. Again, to further this point - I believe Chubb can (and should) show out better. Right now he needs some attention to the fundamentals which I'm sure he will be getting an earful of this week.
Is there ANY confusion with what I've said?
@ 3:34 I can find several instances of this type of Barkley level dancing and hesitation during this pre-season alone. Which is where I come back to being an efficient runner. You cannot stop your feet like that with consistency, then expect to gear back up and attack the Bgap/3 hole. Doesn't Shmucking work like that. The word I use - efficiency. That's how you keep the chains moving. **** Double edit**** Just going off his eyes and when his stance is square and feet not moving, he came off the initial read late and stopped his feet. To me, this would say my RB's eyes and footwork are out of sync. I'm also seeing some evidence of Chubb simply sprinting to the line on these interior gap runs BUT, on some of the zone and lateral work we do from the gun he is more likely to find the crease because I believe that lateral step forces him to slow down just a tad and gives him the ability to find his gap. check it out a few plays before @ 3:25. Get back to me because I would LOVE to hear an opinion as well thought out as mine thus far.
**** Triple edit****
I wonder why this sounded so familiar. I had the exactly same knock on Guice when I watched him on film. Said this all the way back in November... and it feels like a current scenario with Nick.
Cons - Patience. I can't tell if it's him just trying to outplay his line or wanting to sprint right to the second level. Often times on pulls he would be on his blockers butt and backfeet. A few times he couldn't setup the defender off the blocker for a secondary move because he was too busy running into the pulling lineman. A few times he ran counter pulls with great effectiveness but those appeared to be weakside. If he's running to the strength he tends to get ahead of himself.
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well, Tiam, all that should be gleaned from your nonsense criteria of "better" is your fave is the second year player, with a 2.6 career average per carry, only a third down back with a lack of strength to break a tackle...
got that, Tiamsies? analyze that, bigshot. They are different players - Chubb is a powerful three down back, while Dayes is a third down back that lacks strength.
Read up on both players. They are different players.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/matt-dayes?id=2557987
Dayes has fine vision. Chubb has speed, agility, and serious power. They are different type of rb's.
Meanwhile, Tiam the Ham,
“To me, I don’t really feel like he’s a rookie,” running back Carlos Hyde said.
“Usually, rookies come in and be all kind of lost, just trying to feel their way out. I think Nick understands what’s going on. He understands what being a pro is, and he’s definitely been on top of the playbook, been on top of his game, so he’s been doing a pretty good job.”
Running back Duke Johnson Jr. added, “He’s old school. The way he carries himself, the way he dresses in practice, it drives me crazy. His helmet, his face mask, he doesn’t really wear gloves all the time. He’s in the wrong generation.”
Despite sharing carries with Sony Michel, who was selected by the New England Patriots late in the first round of the 2018 NFL Draft, the 5-foot-10, 225-pound Chubb rushed for 4,769 yards and 44 touchdowns on 758 carries for the Bulldogs.
A native of Cedartown, Georgia, Chubb eclipsed the 200-carry and 1,000-yard marks in three of his four seasons “between the hedges,” and helped the Bulldogs reach the 2018 College Football Playoff National Championship Game despite having a freshman quarterback at the helm of the offense.
“I think Chubb’s a beast,” Hyde said. “He’s been doing a great job staying on top of the playbook, coming in. The way he finishes, everything about the kid is good. He’s just an overall player that’s going to come in, help us win and bring a lot to the team.”
Chubb began the 1,000-yard rushing campaigns with a career-high 1,547 yards and 14 touchdowns on 219 carries during his freshman season.
After being limited to just 747 yards on 92 carries in his sophomore year, Chubb punctuated his collegiate career with back-to-back 1,100-yard seasons.
Chubb rushed for 1,130 yards and eight scores on 224 carries in 2016, and finished his career with 1,345 yards and 15 touchdowns on 223 attempts last fall.
In addition to his rushing statistics, Chubb accounted for 359 yards and four touchdowns on 31 career receptions for the Bulldogs.
“He’s a workhorse,” linebacker Christian Kirksey said. “You saw him in college. He’s a guy, he’s not going to do too many shakes. He’s gonna make one cut and go downhill, try to run you over, maybe stiff-arm you, but he’s definitely a workhorse.”
****************************************************
different types of players, Tiam. Your little Tiam critique is crapola.
I wonder how a rb can run for "4,769 yards and 44 touchdowns on 758 carries for the Bulldogs." with a "Tiamsies doesn't like Chubb's vision" goin on.
Furthermore,
Chubb - 53 yards and one touchdown on 11 carries against the Bills. That is just shy of 5 yards per carry.
For a rookie. In his second preseason game in the NFL.
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so, Dayes, who I do like, is not a rookie. Chubb is a rookie. Got it?
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/players-roster/matt-dayes/
5'9", 205. ? was in the league one whole year?
ran 5 times for 13 yards? about the same size as Duke? That's 2.6 yards per carry?
and he is your star runner compared to CHUBB?
Chubb is a different runner he's a very agile, powerful old school runner.
dang, give a kid some regular season games before judging him per some nonsense standards.
Are you both Shmucking Retarded or is there something I typed you missed or in some weird way added to in your mind?
Where, please point out this specifically where I said "star runner". Please... show me. I said I believe Dayes to be the more efficient runner for the moment.
Then for good measure I follow up with an edit saying Chubb needs to get back to some basics - pad level, eye movement, smoother footwork. But somehow this is what you arrived at. Meanwhile you attempt to tell me how Chubb is agile, which really couldn't be further from the truth.
I'm going off practice and pre-season, just like the coaches. Again, to further this point - I believe Chubb can (and should) show out better. Right now he needs some attention to the fundamentals which I'm sure he will be getting an earful of this week.
Is there ANY confusion with what I've said?
@ 3:34 I can find several instances of this type of Barkley level dancing and hesitation during this pre-season alone. Which is where I come back to being an efficient runner. You cannot stop your feet like that with consistency, then expect to gear back up and attack the Bgap/3 hole. Doesn't Shmucking work like that. The word I use - efficiency. That's how you keep the chains moving. **** Double edit**** Just going off his eyes and when his stance is square and feet not moving, he came off the initial read late and stopped his feet. To me, this would say my RB's eyes and footwork are out of sync. I'm also seeing some evidence of Chubb simply sprinting to the line on these interior gap runs BUT, on some of the zone and lateral work we do from the gun he is more likely to find the crease because I believe that lateral step forces him to slow down just a tad and gives him the ability to find his gap. check it out a few plays before @ 3:25. Get back to me because I would LOVE to hear an opinion as well thought out as mine thus far.
**** Triple edit****
I wonder why this sounded so familiar. I had the exactly same knock on Guice when I watched him on film. Said this all the way back in November... and it feels like a current scenario with Nick.
Cons - Patience. I can't tell if it's him just trying to outplay his line or wanting to sprint right to the second level. Often times on pulls he would be on his blockers butt and backfeet. A few times he couldn't setup the defender off the blocker for a secondary move because he was too busy running into the pulling lineman. A few times he ran counter pulls with great effectiveness but those appeared to be weakside. If he's running to the strength he tends to get ahead of himself.
Are you both Shmucking Retarded or is there something I typed you missed or in some weird way added to in your mind?
Where, please point out this specifically where I said "star runner". Please... show me. I said I believe Dayes to be the more efficient runner for the moment.
Then for good measure I follow up with an edit saying Chubb needs to get back to some basics - pad level, eye movement, smoother footwork. But somehow this is what you arrived at. Meanwhile you attempt to tell me how Chubb is agile, which really couldn't be further from the truth.
I'm going off practice and pre-season, just like the coaches. Again, to further this point - I believe Chubb can (and should) show out better. Right now he needs some attention to the fundamentals which I'm sure he will be getting an earful of this week.
Is there ANY confusion with what I've said?
@ 3:34 I can find several instances of this type of Barkley level dancing and hesitation during this pre-season alone. Which is where I come back to being an efficient runner. You cannot stop your feet like that with consistency, then expect to gear back up and attack the Bgap/3 hole. Doesn't Shmucking work like that. The word I use - efficiency. That's how you keep the chains moving. **** Double edit**** Just going off his eyes and when his stance is square and feet not moving, he came off the initial read late and stopped his feet. To me, this would say my RB's eyes and footwork are out of sync. I'm also seeing some evidence of Chubb simply sprinting to the line on these interior gap runs BUT, on some of the zone and lateral work we do from the gun he is more likely to find the crease because I believe that lateral step forces him to slow down just a tad and gives him the ability to find his gap. check it out a few plays before @ 3:25. Get back to me because I would LOVE to hear an opinion as well thought out as mine thus far.
**** Triple edit****
I wonder why this sounded so familiar. I had the exactly same knock on Guice when I watched him on film. Said this all the way back in November... and it feels like a current scenario with Nick.
Cons - Patience. I can't tell if it's him just trying to outplay his line or wanting to sprint right to the second level. Often times on pulls he would be on his blockers butt and backfeet. A few times he couldn't setup the defender off the blocker for a secondary move because he was too busy running into the pulling lineman. A few times he ran counter pulls with great effectiveness but those appeared to be weakside. If he's running to the strength he tends to get ahead of himself.
Glad you bought your junior scout kit and everything, but there is no way anyone but you has Dayes ahead of Chubb.
Not the coaches, not the GM, not the people actually paid to scout ... and it ain't even close.
Dayes is ordinary. And he's 4th string. And the only way he makes the team is as a 4th string back ... and with Peppers handling KRs ... that ain't likely.
Z
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I like Chubb and Dayes.
Chubb was terrible game 1, but has looked better with every successive week. Week 1 his upright stance per-snap was notable. Less so since and Th nite he finished a couple runs with pads lowered.
Vision? TBD in my book. Nothing has jumped out as a concern to this point.
I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I like Chubb and Dayes.
Chubb was terrible game 1, but has looked better with every successive week. Week 1 his upright stance per-snap was notable. Less so since and Th nite he finished a couple runs with pads lowered.
Vision? TBD in my book. Nothing has jumped out as a concern to this point.
I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
Good point - but why? I suppose, not knowing, that once in a while, a two back backfield would force the lb's to crowd the los, worry the safeties, and make a simple TE pass a lot easier?
I really don't know, but I wonder.... ?
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I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
Good point - but why? I suppose, not knowing, that once in a while, a two back backfield would force the lb's to crowd the los, worry the safeties, and make a simple TE pass a lot easier?
I really don't know, but I wonder.... ?
Good point - but why? I suppose, not knowing, that once in a while, a two back backfield would force the lb's to crowd the los, worry the safeties, and make a simple TE pass a lot easier?
I really don't know, but I wonder.... ?
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LOL?Throwback offense from the Twilight Zone.
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Are you both Shmucking Retarded or is there something I typed you missed or in some weird way added to in your mind?
Where, please point out this specifically where I said "star runner". Please... show me. I said I believe Dayes to be the more efficient runner for the moment.
Then for good measure I follow up with an edit saying Chubb needs to get back to some basics - pad level, eye movement, smoother footwork. But somehow this is what you arrived at. Meanwhile you attempt to tell me how Chubb is agile, which really couldn't be further from the truth.
I'm going off practice and pre-season, just like the coaches. Again, to further this point - I believe Chubb can (and should) show out better. Right now he needs some attention to the fundamentals which I'm sure he will be getting an earful of this week.
Is there ANY confusion with what I've said?
@ 3:34 I can find several instances of this type of Barkley level dancing and hesitation during this pre-season alone. Which is where I come back to being an efficient runner. You cannot stop your feet like that with consistency, then expect to gear back up and attack the Bgap/3 hole. Doesn't Shmucking work like that. The word I use - efficiency. That's how you keep the chains moving. **** Double edit**** Just going off his eyes and when his stance is square and feet not moving, he came off the initial read late and stopped his feet. To me, this would say my RB's eyes and footwork are out of sync. I'm also seeing some evidence of Chubb simply sprinting to the line on these interior gap runs BUT, on some of the zone and lateral work we do from the gun he is more likely to find the crease because I believe that lateral step forces him to slow down just a tad and gives him the ability to find his gap. check it out a few plays before @ 3:25. Get back to me because I would LOVE to hear an opinion as well thought out as mine thus far.
**** Triple edit****
I wonder why this sounded so familiar. I had the exactly same knock on Guice when I watched him on film. Said this all the way back in November... and it feels like a current scenario with Nick.
Cons - Patience. I can't tell if it's him just trying to outplay his line or wanting to sprint right to the second level. Often times on pulls he would be on his blockers butt and backfeet. A few times he couldn't setup the defender off the blocker for a secondary move because he was too busy running into the pulling lineman. A few times he ran counter pulls with great effectiveness but those appeared to be weakside. If he's running to the strength he tends to get ahead of himself.
Glad you bought your junior scout kit and everything, but there is no way anyone but you has Dayes ahead of Chubb.
Not the coaches, not the GM, not the people actually paid to scout ... and it ain't even close.
Dayes is ordinary. And he's 4th string. And the only way he makes the team is as a 4th string back ... and with Peppers handling KRs ... that ain't likely.
Z
Zombo said:
Glad you bought your junior scout kit and everything, but there is no way anyone but you has Dayes ahead of Chubb.
Not the coaches, not the GM, not the people actually paid to scout ... and it ain't even close.
Dayes is ordinary. And he's 4th string. And the only way he makes the team is as a 4th string back ... and with Peppers handling KRs ... that ain't likely.
Z
So that's it? All you have is a minor insult and referencing the coaches as opposed to, " hey you make sense, I think Chubb just needs some time and work but he'll get there".... Would that be so hard?
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I love watching Navy's triple option too....
I love watching Navy's triple option too....
Kind of makes NAVY's little guys compete and give headaches to some bigger guys.
Amazing too how coaching can play an importance in the success or lack thereof in some programs, just compare NAVY, Army, Air Force over the years and who wins the commander in chief trophies. So what's up with Army? You'd think that they'd be tougher.
Originated: 1972; 46 years ago Current Holder: Army Air Force (20)
1982 1983
1985 1987
1989 1990
1991 1992
1994 1995
1997 1998
1999 2000
2001 2002
2010 2011
2014 2016Army (7)
1972 1977
1984 1986
1988 1996
2017Navy (15)
1973 1975
1978 1979
1981 2003
2004 2005
2006 2007
2008 2009
2012 2013
2015Shared Awards (4)
1974 1976 1980 1993 -
I love watching Navy's triple option too....
Kind of makes NAVY's little guys compete and give headaches to some bigger guys.
Amazing too how coaching can play an importance in the success or lack thereof in some programs, just compare NAVY, Army, Air Force over the years and who wins the commander in chief trophies. So what's up with Army? You'd think that they'd be tougher.
Originated: 1972; 46 years ago Current Holder: Army Air Force (20)
1982 1983
1985 1987
1989 1990
1991 1992
1994 1995
1997 1998
1999 2000
2001 2002
2010 2011
2014 2016Army (7)
1972 1977
1984 1986
1988 1996
2017Navy (15)
1973 1975
1978 1979
1981 2003
2004 2005
2006 2007
2008 2009
2012 2013
2015Shared Awards (4)
1974 1976 1980 1993Kind of makes NAVY's little guys compete and give headaches to some bigger guys.
Amazing too how coaching can play an importance in the success or lack thereof in some programs, just compare NAVY, Army, Air Force over the years and who wins the commander in chief trophies. So what's up with Army? You'd think that they'd be tougher.
Originated: 1972; 46 years ago Current Holder: Army Air Force (20)
1982 1983
1985 1987
1989 1990
1991 1992
1994 1995
1997 1998
1999 2000
2001 2002
2010 2011
2014 2016Army (7)
1972 1977
1984 1986
1988 1996
2017Navy (15)
1973 1975
1978 1979
1981 2003
2004 2005
2006 2007
2008 2009
2012 2013
2015Shared Awards (4)
1974 1976 1980 1993Looks like Army has finally turned themselves around. I'm pretty sure Navy beat them like 350 times in a row until recently though.
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Zombo said:
Glad you bought your junior scout kit and everything, but there is no way anyone but you has Dayes ahead of Chubb.
Not the coaches, not the GM, not the people actually paid to scout ... and it ain't even close.
Dayes is ordinary. And he's 4th string. And the only way he makes the team is as a 4th string back ... and with Peppers handling KRs ... that ain't likely.
Z
So that's it? All you have is a minor insult and referencing the coaches as opposed to, " hey you make sense, I think Chubb just needs some time and work but he'll get there".... Would that be so hard?
So that's it? All you have is a minor insult and referencing the coaches as opposed to, " hey you make sense, I think Chubb just needs some time and work but he'll get there".... Would that be so hard?
Well, go back to my first post in the conversation and you'll see my take on the matter ... highly confident the coaches wil bring out the best in him, he's a special talent.
In fact, I was out of the conversation and had accepted your responses until you felt the need to double down and call both Cal and I "retarded" because you had put a lot of work into your stupid opinion that Dayes is better and we weren't getting it.
He's not better. Good chance he doesnt even make the roster, while Chubb gets plenty of reps with the 1s.
Chubb is what NFL teams are looking for, Dayes isn't... but you keep telling us about their pad level and their vision, skippy, and we'll watch Chubb truck some Steelers while Dayes is looking for work.
Z
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I like Chubb and Dayes.
Chubb was terrible game 1, but has looked better with every successive week. Week 1 his upright stance per-snap was notable. Less so since and Th nite he finished a couple runs with pads lowered.
Vision? TBD in my book. Nothing has jumped out as a concern to this point.
I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
I like Chubb and Dayes.
Chubb was terrible game 1, but has looked better with every successive week. Week 1 his upright stance per-snap was notable. Less so since and Th nite he finished a couple runs with pads lowered.
Vision? TBD in my book. Nothing has jumped out as a concern to this point.
I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
Tour, I was thinking the same thing ... chuck the fullback, keep four tight ends on the roster, and have some formations with both Hyde and Chubb lining up in the backfield. Both are big enough to lead block and versatile enough to catch out of the backfield.
I dont know how much Haley has used a fullback in Pittsburgh, but he's only got Vitale here, and I think Devalve and DeJuice could line up there and still contribute at TE.
Z
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I like Chubb and Dayes.
Chubb was terrible game 1, but has looked better with every successive week. Week 1 his upright stance per-snap was notable. Less so since and Th nite he finished a couple runs with pads lowered.
Vision? TBD in my book. Nothing has jumped out as a concern to this point.
I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.
Tour, I was thinking the same thing ... chuck the fullback, keep four tight ends on the roster, and have some formations with both Hyde and Chubb lining up in the backfield. Both are big enough to lead block and versatile enough to catch out of the backfield.
I dont know how much Haley has used a fullback in Pittsburgh, but he's only got Vitale here, and I think Devalve and DeJuice could line up there and still contribute at TE.
Z
Zombo said:
Tour, I was thinking the same thing ... chuck the fullback, keep four tight ends on the roster, and have some formations with both Hyde and Chubb lining up in the backfield. Both are big enough to lead block and versatile enough to catch out of the backfield.
I dont know how much Haley has used a fullback in Pittsburgh, but he's only got Vitale here, and I think Devalve and DeJuice could line up there and still contribute at TE.
Z
Chubb is an excellent blocker so I could see him in the FB position in short yardage with the option of even handing off to the up back if it appears they have a ready made hole right there for the taking. He is plenty big enough to be the lead blocker if that is what the defense calls for.
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