*GAMEDAY THREADS* Eagles & Lions

Zombo · **Posted November 29, 2017**

@tiamat63 said:

Are you both Shmucking Retarded or is there something I typed you missed or in some weird way added to in your mind?

Where, please point out this specifically where I said "star runner". Please... show me. I said I believe Dayes to be the more efficient runner for the moment.

Then for good measure I follow up with an edit saying Chubb needs to get back to some basics - pad level, eye movement, smoother footwork. But somehow this is what you arrived at. Meanwhile you attempt to tell me how Chubb is agile, which really couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm going off practice and pre-season, just like the coaches. Again, to further this point - I believe Chubb can (and should) show out better. Right now he needs some attention to the fundamentals which I'm sure he will be getting an earful of this week.

Is there ANY confusion with what I've said?

@ 3:34 I can find several instances of this type of Barkley level dancing and hesitation during this pre-season alone. Which is where I come back to being an efficient runner. You cannot stop your feet like that with consistency, then expect to gear back up and attack the Bgap/3 hole. Doesn't Shmucking work like that. The word I use - efficiency. That's how you keep the chains moving. **** Double edit**** Just going off his eyes and when his stance is square and feet not moving, he came off the initial read late and stopped his feet. To me, this would say my RB's eyes and footwork are out of sync. I'm also seeing some evidence of Chubb simply sprinting to the line on these interior gap runs BUT, on some of the zone and lateral work we do from the gun he is more likely to find the crease because I believe that lateral step forces him to slow down just a tad and gives him the ability to find his gap. check it out a few plays before @ 3:25. Get back to me because I would LOVE to hear an opinion as well thought out as mine thus far.

**** Triple edit****

I wonder why this sounded so familiar. I had the exactly same knock on Guice when I watched him on film. Said this all the way back in November... and it feels like a current scenario with Nick.

Posted November 29, 2017

Cons - Patience. I can't tell if it's him just trying to outplay his line or wanting to sprint right to the second level. Often times on pulls he would be on his blockers butt and backfeet. A few times he couldn't setup the defender off the blocker for a secondary move because he was too busy running into the pulling lineman. A few times he ran counter pulls with great effectiveness but those appeared to be weakside. If he's running to the strength he tends to get ahead of himself.

Glad you bought your junior scout kit and everything, but there is no way anyone but you has Dayes ahead of Chubb.

Not the coaches, not the GM, not the people actually paid to scout ... and it ain't even close.

Dayes is ordinary. And he's 4th string. And the only way he makes the team is as a 4th string back ... and with Peppers handling KRs ... that ain't likely.

Z

Tour2ma

I like Chubb and Dayes.

Chubb was terrible game 1, but has looked better with every successive week. Week 1 his upright stance per-snap was notable. Less so since and Th nite he finished a couple runs with pads lowered.

Vision? TBD in my book. Nothing has jumped out as a concern to this point.

I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.

calfoxwc

@tour2ma said:

I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.

Good point - but why? I suppose, not knowing, that once in a while, a two back backfield would force the lb's to crowd the los, worry the safeties, and make a simple TE pass a lot easier?

I really don't know, but I wonder.... ?

TexasAg1969

@calfoxwc said:

Good point - but why? I suppose, not knowing, that once in a while, a two back backfield would force the lb's to crowd the los, worry the safeties, and make a simple TE pass a lot easier?

I really don't know, but I wonder.... ?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL?Throwback offense from the Twilight Zone.

Dutch Oven

I love watching Navy's triple option too....

tiamat63 · **Posted November 29, 2017**

Zombo said:

Glad you bought your junior scout kit and everything, but there is no way anyone but you has Dayes ahead of Chubb.

Not the coaches, not the GM, not the people actually paid to scout ... and it ain't even close.

Dayes is ordinary. And he's 4th string. And the only way he makes the team is as a 4th string back ... and with Peppers handling KRs ... that ain't likely.

Z

So that's it? All you have is a minor insult and referencing the coaches as opposed to, " hey you make sense, I think Chubb just needs some time and work but he'll get there".... Would that be so hard?

mjp28

@dutch-oven said:

I love watching Navy's triple option too....

Kind of makes NAVY's little guys compete and give headaches to some bigger guys.

Amazing too how coaching can play an importance in the success or lack thereof in some programs, just compare NAVY, Army, Air Force over the years and who wins the commander in chief trophies. So what's up with Army? You'd think that they'd be tougher.

Originated:	1972; 46 years ago
Current Holder:	Army


Air Force (20) 1982 1983 1985 1987 1989 1990 1991 1992 1994 1995 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2010 2011 2014 2016	Army (7) 1972 1977 1984 1986 1988 1996 2017	Navy (15) 1973 1975 1978 1979 1981 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2012 2013 2015
Shared Awards (4) 1974 1976 1980 1993

Dutch Oven

@mjp28 said:

Kind of makes NAVY's little guys compete and give headaches to some bigger guys.

Amazing too how coaching can play an importance in the success or lack thereof in some programs, just compare NAVY, Army, Air Force over the years and who wins the commander in chief trophies. So what's up with Army? You'd think that they'd be tougher.

Originated: 1972; 46 years ago
Current Holder: Army

Air Force (20)
1982   1983
1985   1987
1989   1990
1991   1992
1994   1995
1997   1998
1999   2000
2001   2002
2010   2011
2014   2016 Army (7)
1972   1977
1984   1986
1988   1996
2017 Navy (15)
1973   1975
1978   1979
1981   2003
2004   2005
2006   2007
2008   2009
2012   2013
2015
Shared Awards (4)
1974 1976 1980 1993

Looks like Army has finally turned themselves around. I'm pretty sure Navy beat them like 350 times in a row until recently though.

Zombo

@tiamat63 said:

So that's it? All you have is a minor insult and referencing the coaches as opposed to, " hey you make sense, I think Chubb just needs some time and work but he'll get there".... Would that be so hard?

Well, go back to my first post in the conversation and you'll see my take on the matter ... highly confident the coaches wil bring out the best in him, he's a special talent.

In fact, I was out of the conversation and had accepted your responses until you felt the need to double down and call both Cal and I "retarded" because you had put a lot of work into your stupid opinion that Dayes is better and we weren't getting it.

He's not better. Good chance he doesnt even make the roster, while Chubb gets plenty of reps with the 1s.

Chubb is what NFL teams are looking for, Dayes isn't... but you keep telling us about their pad level and their vision, skippy, and we'll watch Chubb truck some Steelers while Dayes is looking for work.

Z

Zombo

@tour2ma said:

I like Chubb and Dayes.

Chubb was terrible game 1, but has looked better with every successive week. Week 1 his upright stance per-snap was notable. Less so since and Th nite he finished a couple runs with pads lowered.

Vision? TBD in my book. Nothing has jumped out as a concern to this point.

I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.

Tour, I was thinking the same thing ... chuck the fullback, keep four tight ends on the roster, and have some formations with both Hyde and Chubb lining up in the backfield. Both are big enough to lead block and versatile enough to catch out of the backfield.

I dont know how much Haley has used a fullback in Pittsburgh, but he's only got Vitale here, and I think Devalve and DeJuice could line up there and still contribute at TE.

Z

TexasAg1969

Zombo said:

Tour, I was thinking the same thing ... chuck the fullback, keep four tight ends on the roster, and have some formations with both Hyde and Chubb lining up in the backfield. Both are big enough to lead block and versatile enough to catch out of the backfield.

I dont know how much Haley has used a fullback in Pittsburgh, but he's only got Vitale here, and I think Devalve and DeJuice could line up there and still contribute at TE.

Z

Chubb is an excellent blocker so I could see him in the FB position in short yardage with the option of even handing off to the up back if it appears they have a ready made hole right there for the taking. He is plenty big enough to be the lead blocker if that is what the defense calls for.

Flugel

@tour2ma said:

Vision? TBD in my book. Nothing has jumped out as a concern to this point.

I did have a Mack-Byner moment cross my mind Th nite... but then realized we aren't likely to ever see Hyde and Chubb on the field at the same time.

You're right - we're probably not going to see Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde on the field at the same time.

As fun as Mack and Byner on the field at the same time was - we only went 8-8 when they both went over 1000 yards being on the field at the same time in 85. Infante came here in 1986 more concerned about exploiting LBers trying to blitz our 2nd year QB Kosar with an increased effort to throw to the RBs in the flats, hook zones and all gray areas in between. That reduced the Mack and Byner on the field at the same time significantly while the RBs combined for 122 receptions to bury the blitz repeatedly. On 3rd downs alone - Herman Fontenot gave us 47 receptions. Byner added 37, Mack 28 and Dickey 10. Hopefully my RB reception volume isn't Nassib math...

I am looking forward to Carlos Hyde carrying on the proud tradition of the 34 jersey that Greg Pruitt and Kevin Mack started. FWIW, about Chubb - he's getting better every time we see him. From the practice clips I've seen of Chubb in pass pro - he might already be our best RB at that non-glamorous role. This kid didn't wake up a lousy football player. When the game slows down, there will be a lot less paralysis from over-analysis. He'll go from Dr Jekyll to Seymore Daylight. He reminds me a lot of Mike Pruitt who made 2 Pro Bowls after starting only 2 games in his first 2 years. We're already seeing glimpses of what he's going to become...

gumby73

Zombo said:

... chuck the fullback, keep four tight ends on the roster, and have some formations with both Hyde and Chubb lining up in the backfield. Both are big enough to lead block and versatile enough to catch out of the backfield.

I dont know how much Haley has used a fullback in Pittsburgh, but he's only got Vitale here, and I think Devalve and DeJuice could line up there and still contribute at TE.

Z

I like what you cookin here Z..Haley took a Kent State LB Roosevelt Nix a special teams player at 248lbs & made him a pro bowl FB setting up L.Bell in 2017..Nix carried the ball all of 3 times & was targeted 7 times with 1 TD.One thing I've seen about Haley in preseason is he has players practice there weakness..Examples- Redzone passing game than Haley had Duke in pass pro all night..Am not feeling Haley's waiting on guys to climb out of the tub to move forward..

Ibleedbrown

@tiamat63 said:

Another random observation - Baker needs to work on the Play action fakes. That two hand Sheet isn't fooling anyone.

I think that’s a good observation. It’s also something l thought he was really good at based on some college film l watched, that he had a knack for deception with fakes and where he might be throwing the ball.

My theory is the pocket is tighter and things happen more quickly in the NFL, so he feels like he’s pressed for time and has taken out some of the extra movements that made him so good at deception in college.

Maybe as he gets more comfortable the game will slow down enough to where he can find where he can incorporate those things again.

tiamat63

Zombo said:

In fact, I was out of the conversation and had accepted your responses until you felt the need to double down and call both Cal and I "Retarded"

I call you both 'Retarded' because it was deserved for putting words into my mouth. If you want to move on from that, I extend the olive branch.

Flugel

@tiamat63 said:

Another random observation - Baker needs to work on the Play action fakes. That two hand Sheet isn't fooling anyone.

Very good point T but the down and distance on the best example of it Thursday wasn't fooling anyone either. When it's 3rd and 18 for a QB that has already converted that challenge a week or 2 ago - we're not running the ball up inside.

To your point though - I hope they DO work on this with Baker because it'll help him a lot with 3rd and doable situations (where run or pass could convert). We can't underrate how much extra time this could buy him to throw the ball. Aside from that, it can get pass defenders out of position just long enough to do damage. In Cincy, I thought Zampese and Hue did a really good job with the play action fakes with Dalton. No reason they can't do this with Baker.

tiamat63

@ibleedbrown said:

I think that’s a good observation. It’s also something l thought he was really good at based on some college film l watched, that he had a knack for deception with fakes and where he might be throwing the ball.

My theory is the pocket is tighter and things happen more quickly in the NFL, so he feels like he’s pressed for time and has taken out some of the extra movements that made him so good at deception in college.

Maybe as he gets more comfortable the game will slow down enough to where he can find where he can incorporate those things again.

I also think it has to do with the design of the play action Baker is being asked to carry out now vs college.

With OU it was a lot of lateral stuff and misdirection. In the NFL you're being asked to ball action north/south and trust that your backs pick up interior pressure if you have anybody pull for the additional sell.

Another reason why I think Tyrod having the bulk of the time with the 1's is a big deal, Mayfield still needs to get comfortable with not only the quality and timing of his fake, but also that footwork from under center was still a bit shoddy at times vs the Iggles.

Good man for Baker to watch is Brady. He has (imho) the best action fake in the NFL anymore.

Another young(er) QB to take a note from is Luck. The initial step is tight, the sutble motion of dropping his shoulder, using only one hand as opposed to two (a very big deal) and admire how quick that pivot is and how fast Andrew's head is around while finishing his drop. That is textbook stuff.

Zombo

@tiamat63 said:

I call you both 'Retarded' because it was deserved for putting words into my mouth. If you want to move on from that, I extend the olive branch.

I didn't put any words in your mouth, still working off of your original statement: "Off topic - Chubb. Not feeling his running style or vision so far. I have serious concerns. Dayes is still my #2 guy. "

We disagree. I'm OK with Chubb so far, and he's still being coached up. He's a much better back than Dayes IMO. Dayes is #4. If he were #2 we'd be in trouble. His closest competition is Dontrell Hilliard, he is not in the conversation with the Big 3.

Your opinion is fine, it's your opinion ... I just think it's dead wrong, that's why I jumped on it ... that's what we do here. If Dayes makes a key contribution to this team this year I will look you up and give you props. There's your branch.

Zombo

tiamat63

Zombo said:

I didn't put any words in your mouth, still working off of your original statement: "Off topic - Chubb. Not feeling his running style or vision so far. I have serious concerns. Dayes is still my #2 guy. "

We disagree. I'm OK with Chubb so far, and he's still being coached up. He's a much better back than Dayes IMO. Dayes is #4. If he were #2 we'd be in trouble. His closest competition is Dontrell Hilliard, he is not in the conversation with the Big 3.

Your opinion is fine, it's your opinion ... I just think it's dead wrong, that's why I jumped on it ... that's what we do here. If Dayes makes a key contribution to this team this year I will look you up and give you props. There's your branch.

Zombo

tenor.gif?itemid=5026058

dawg2fan

@calfoxwc said:

“I think Chubb’s a beast,” Hyde said. “He’s been doing a great job staying on top of the playbook, coming in. The way he finishes, everything about the kid is good. He’s just an overall player that’s going to come in, help us win and bring a lot to the team.”

Chubb began the 1,000-yard rushing campaigns with a career-high 1,547 yards and 14 touchdowns on 219 carries during his freshman season.

After being limited to just 747 yards on 92 carries in his sophomore year, Chubb punctuated his collegiate career with back-to-back 1,100-yard seasons.

Chubb rushed for 1,130 yards and eight scores on 224 carries in 2016, and finished his career with 1,345 yards and 15 touchdowns on 223 attempts last fall.

In addition to his rushing statistics, Chubb accounted for 359 yards and four touchdowns on 31 career receptions for the Bulldogs.

“He’s a workhorse,” linebacker Christian Kirksey said. “You saw him in college. He’s a guy, he’s not going to do too many shakes. He’s gonna make one cut and go downhill, try to run you over, maybe stiff-arm you, but he’s definitely a workhorse.”

****************************************************

different types of players, Tiam. Your little Tiam critique is crapola.

I wonder how a rb can run for "4,769 yards and 44 touchdowns on 758 carries for the Bulldogs." with a "Tiamsies doesn't like Chubb's vision" goin on.

Furthermore,

Chubb - 53 yards and one touchdown on 11 carries against the Bills. That is just shy of 5 yards per carry.

For a rookie. In his second preseason game in the NFL.

Well Cal, It sounds like you're saying its our offensive line, and if you are: I Agree. They're not blocking worth a dime and giving our RBs or WRs a chance. Hopefully when we get Zietler back for game 1, it will get better (and i'm pretty sure it will). It always seems like when we get all the right pieces on the team, our Oline goes south. Zietler, we will certainly welcome you back for game 1.