Haslam is the Problem
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I miss Joe Thomas out there
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The "boss" needs to adress this simking ship. Dont ask what needs to be said, but leadership from the very top is whats necessary right now. Would be better if the owner was actually from the area and a long time fan but whatever.....jimmy needs to take some personal action like tommorrow morning. And no judt firing some jokers to bring in some new jokers isnt gonna cut it
i know clevefan....but what would he say because he does not know the first thing about the game....
i know clevefan....but what would he say because he does not know the first thing about the game....
and thsts why we need a new owner.
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and thsts why we need a new owner.
You may as well pick a new team to root for if you think Haslam is selling out anytime soon.
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Dumping money into the stadium could be Haslam's idea of ensuring his cashflow.. that people pay to watch the games even if the team stinks.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
And a free agent spending spree is NOT the way to be competitive -- that's the Dallas model and they've shown their ceiling even if hitting on those 1st-rounders.. to be a first-round exit.
You have to have a plan and execute that plan, whether it's easy or not.
Note that Dallas' QB actually stinks whereas Baker is at his worst the best QB we've had since re-entering the league.
Note that Jamie Collins is performing at a 59.2 rating this season -- he's frankly wildly overpaid based on his actual productivity. At least that 59 is more than 20 points higher than his overall grade last season of 35.. so he's back to league average!
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
So you don't like Haslam's hiring of Dorsey?
Nor the subsequent hirings of Highsmith and Wolf?
I stated that I like Dorsey tour, but I feel as if Jimmy is acting Jerry Jones-esque at times.
Maybe he's not, and I could be completely wrong, but that's what I believe.
The big question for me, is when will we not lead the league in having lowest salary cap?
Will we have lowest salary cap for the next 10 years? and If so, If we don't have a winning season in the next ten years, could that be related.
and Lastly, how is it a good thing for us to have the lowest salary cap in the league year after year?
I stated that I like Dorsey tour, but I feel as if Jimmy is acting Jerry Jones-esque at times.
Maybe he's not, and I could be completely wrong, but that's what I believe.
The big question for me, is when will we not lead the league in having lowest salary cap?
Will we have lowest salary cap for the next 10 years? and If so, If we don't have a winning season in the next ten years, could that be related.
and Lastly, how is it a good thing for us to have the lowest salary cap in the league year after year?
Regarding the BOLD, you're not thinking down the road. Let's just take three guys we have now, and do a little projecting, assuming they all turn out at a pro bowl level. When they come off their rookie deals, how much you think Garrett, Mayfield and Ward would command on the open market? Enough to eat 1\2 of the cap? Huh?
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Dumping money into the stadium could be Haslam's idea of ensuring his cashflow.. that people pay to watch the games even if the team stinks.
Dumping money into the stadium could be Haslam's idea of ensuring his cashflow.. that people pay to watch the games even if the team stinks.
You missed the point. Stadium revenue is a nice perk for the owners- but it's not their major source of revenue. That's TV contracts, FYI. Starting with off the top of my head, the $4 billion Directv pays the NFL for exclusive rights to Sunday Ticket.
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I stated that I like Dorsey tour, but I feel as if Jimmy is acting Jerry Jones-esque at times.
Maybe he's not, and I could be completely wrong, but that's what I believe.
The big question for me, is when will we not lead the league in having lowest salary cap?
Will we have lowest salary cap for the next 10 years? and If so, If we don't have a winning season in the next ten years, could that be related.
and Lastly, how is it a good thing for us to have the lowest salary cap in the league year after year?
Regarding the BOLD, you're not thinking down the road. Let's just take three guys we have now, and do a little projecting, assuming they all turn out at a pro bowl level. When they come off their rookie deals, how much you think Garrett, Mayfield and Ward would command on the open market? Enough to eat 1\2 of the cap? Huh?
Regarding the BOLD, you're not thinking down the road. Let's just take three guys we have now, and do a little projecting, assuming they all turn out at a pro bowl level. When they come off their rookie deals, how much you think Garrett, Mayfield and Ward would command on the open market? Enough to eat 1\2 of the cap? Huh?
Hoorta, That's assuming that Garrett, Ward, and Mayfield will all want to stay there when free agency crosses them. If We have to change the system every two years, or if we continue to win only 4-5 games per year, they'll be unlikely to want to stay with the team. I think Baker is loyal but who knows about Garrett. I'm not saying we need to spend the most, I'm just saying, there's a reason the Oakland A's never win the championship. Look at how much the Yankees spend.
The point is how long must we rebuild? Will we rebuild another five years, change coaches, and then continue to rebuild? Jimmy brings instability. Is he doing moneyball still with Depo still there? Is he not? We really don't know... I'm just saying I find it awfully weird having Dorsey unwind all of the Vets. So we trade all the vets and bring on practice squad guys again? That proves that we're just tanking and giving up on the season if we trade Devalve, Collins, and other Vets.
I doubt that will make the youngsters want to stay here if we trade more vets. They'll lose faith in the coach, in the system, and their confidence will be shot. The only way to solve this is by winning. But i'm just saying in five years I better not hear we're rebuilding, and we better not still be #1 on the least money spent. This goes WITH resigning Mayfield and others.
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And a free agent spending spree is NOT the way to be competitive -- that's the Dallas model and they've shown their ceiling even if hitting on those 1st-rounders.. to be a first-round exit.
You have to have a plan and execute that plan, whether it's easy or not.
Note that Dallas' QB actually stinks whereas Baker is at his worst the best QB we've had since re-entering the league.
Note that Jamie Collins is performing at a 59.2 rating this season -- he's frankly wildly overpaid based on his actual productivity. At least that 59 is more than 20 points higher than his overall grade last season of 35.. so he's back to league average!
And a free agent spending spree is NOT the way to be competitive -- that's the Dallas model and they've shown their ceiling even if hitting on those 1st-rounders.. to be a first-round exit.
You have to have a plan and execute that plan, whether it's easy or not.
Note that Dallas' QB actually stinks whereas Baker is at his worst the best QB we've had since re-entering the league.
Note that Jamie Collins is performing at a 59.2 rating this season -- he's frankly wildly overpaid based on his actual productivity. At least that 59 is more than 20 points higher than his overall grade last season of 35.. so he's back to league average!
Well obviously what we're doing is not the way to be competitive. Just because something worked for someone else doesn't mean it'll work for us, or it won't.
We really don't know Jimmy and Dorsey's plan. I'm not sure if Dorsey is a yes man, or if Jimmy is still doing moneyball with Depo there.
Maybe it's good to trade one vet like Jamie Collins. But can you really argue that we should trade all vets? Like Hyde, Gordon, and the rumors that even Devalve is on the trade block with Collins too. How will all of these youngsters feel if all the vets are traded? How will the coordinators be confident we can win any games with practice squad players playing?
Or are we just tanking? That has to be the case, or Hue wouldn't of said he doesn't feel pressured ever to win right now by Jimmy.
If this 5 year moneyball plan was to tank for two years, and then win 3-7 games and trade all of the vets for fifth rounders, then it's surely working the right way.
Baker is good, but the guys blocking him will get him murdered. Who did we replace Joe Thomas with again?
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The Browns completely tore this franchise down to the studs prior to the 2016 season. Over the last few seasons the overwhelming majority of the team was made up rookies or second year players. Players that tend to be relatively cheap. Dorsey recently admitted that the team is still in the rebuilding phase.
Name me one team in any sport that spent a good amount of money on their payroll during a complete rebuild of their franchise. Do you want me to post the payrolls of the 2013-2015 Houston Astros?
The Browns completely tore this franchise down to the studs prior to the 2016 season. Over the last few seasons the overwhelming majority of the team was made up rookies or second year players. Players that tend to be relatively cheap. Dorsey recently admitted that the team is still in the rebuilding phase.
Name me one team in any sport that spent a good amount of money on their payroll during a complete rebuild of their franchise. Do you want me to post the payrolls of the 2013-2015 Houston Astros?
So you admit we're still doing moneyball? How long is Jimmy going to give it to actually work? Is Dorsey really just going to follow statistics and trade all of the vets like he did hyde and gordon? Because that's what it feels like he's doing now. Those all feel like Depo moves. There's no pressure to win, and Hue is too comfortable.
When I was a kid in 1999, we were rebuilding. In fact, how many years since 99 have we NOT been rebuilding? There is no moneyball "plan", and if there was, it failed horribly when Jimmy fired Sashi. Even if there is a plan, what is it? Who exactly is following through with it?
If we're rebuilding in five years, I hope you won't be fine with that. It's freaking time to win now. Not next year, not 2020, right now.
So far our "rebuild" up to this point has brought us Corey Coleman, and a bunch of practice squad receivers. If we start practice squad receivers in 2019, and 2020, then that's asking to lose.
We rebuilt and built up people like Nassib, only to cut him for nothing.....
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The Haslams have taken us from a dysfunctional team to a winless team. Now we’re back to dysfunctional. We may have a little better talent but I’m certain hue will deal with that and take us headlong back to winless.
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We are losing our minds over Carl Nassib.
And the season is only half-way done.
Oof.
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I don't think Haslam is the reason for our woes . Ask Jimmy if he wants to win, he will say yes. Ask Jimmy if he wants to win a Superbowl, he will say yes.
Knowing this, logically we have to assume that every decision he does is for the betterment of the organization, right or wrong. I'll assume that JH understands when he is wrong and has made bad decisions. That is why we have seen changes under his watch. But, he also understood that keeping Hue for a few seasons, and ridding the organization of the stigma of firing head coaches after one or two seasons needed to end.Being in a corporate setting, I can understand JH going with Sachi and the whole analytics route. It didn't work, JH saw that, and brought in a seasoned football guy who I feel made this team better.
However, we have issues in the coaching ranks. There is a power struggle right now. Heads are going to roll.Please keep in mind, we have an owner that is NOTHING like Jerry Jones. Nothing. But I do think we have an owner that wants to win and is trying to make that happen. I would much rather have JH, then the previous guy (Can't even remember his name). I like Dorsey. THe problem is Hue. Hue is slimy. He refuses to take full ownership of problems that happen clearly under his watch. I also personally don't like what I am seeing out Haley and his offensive plan.
Keep in mind, Dorsey is a smart guy. Not his first rodeo in dealing with NFL personalities and coaching issues. We have to trust that he and JH will make the right choices. -
Hue sure has something on Jimmy ...... why else would he refuse to fire this moron ...... its like rewarding failure
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I don't think Haslam is the reason for our woes . Ask Jimmy if he wants to win, he will say yes. Ask Jimmy if he wants to win a Superbowl, he will say yes.
Knowing this, logically we have to assume that every decision he does is for the betterment of the organization, right or wrong. I'll assume that JH understands when he is wrong and has made bad decisions. That is why we have seen changes under his watch. But, he also understood that keeping Hue for a few seasons, and ridding the organization of the stigma of firing head coaches after one or two seasons needed to end.Being in a corporate setting, I can understand JH going with Sachi and the whole analytics route. It didn't work, JH saw that, and brought in a seasoned football guy who I feel made this team better.
However, we have issues in the coaching ranks. There is a power struggle right now. Heads are going to roll.Please keep in mind, we have an owner that is NOTHING like Jerry Jones. Nothing. But I do think we have an owner that wants to win and is trying to make that happen. I would much rather have JH, then the previous guy (Can't even remember his name). I like Dorsey. THe problem is Hue. Hue is slimy. He refuses to take full ownership of problems that happen clearly under his watch. I also personally don't like what I am seeing out Haley and his offensive plan.
Keep in mind, Dorsey is a smart guy. Not his first rodeo in dealing with NFL personalities and coaching issues. We have to trust that he and JH will make the right choices.I don't think Haslam is the reason for our woes . Ask Jimmy if he wants to win, he will say yes. Ask Jimmy if he wants to win a Superbowl, he will say yes.
Knowing this, logically we have to assume that every decision he does is for the betterment of the organization, right or wrong. I'll assume that JH understands when he is wrong and has made bad decisions. That is why we have seen changes under his watch. But, he also understood that keeping Hue for a few seasons, and ridding the organization of the stigma of firing head coaches after one or two seasons needed to end.Being in a corporate setting, I can understand JH going with Sachi and the whole analytics route. It didn't work, JH saw that, and brought in a seasoned football guy who I feel made this team better.
However, we have issues in the coaching ranks. There is a power struggle right now. Heads are going to roll.Please keep in mind, we have an owner that is NOTHING like Jerry Jones. Nothing. But I do think we have an owner that wants to win and is trying to make that happen. I would much rather have JH, then the previous guy (Can't even remember his name). I like Dorsey. THe problem is Hue. Hue is slimy. He refuses to take full ownership of problems that happen clearly under his watch. I also personally don't like what I am seeing out Haley and his offensive plan.
Keep in mind, Dorsey is a smart guy. Not his first rodeo in dealing with NFL personalities and coaching issues. We have to trust that he and JH will make the right choices.I totally agree with your post. Something needs to, & I feel WILL happen, but the question is WHEN. At least I trust Dorsey & his FO to make the correct decision as far as "who, what, & when". Dorsey didn't come into this blind. His 1st step was to establish credibility with JH. No one is perfect, but his performance to date has had to have established that credibility. I think a good portion of the weight on his shoulders holding the Browns back is soon to be removed. What will be determined is when SOON is.....now? bye week?, end of season?
Mike
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I don't think Haslam is the reason for our woes . Ask Jimmy if he wants to win, he will say yes. Ask Jimmy if he wants to win a Superbowl, he will say yes.
Knowing this, logically we have to assume that every decision he does is for the betterment of the organization, right or wrong. I'll assume that JH understands when he is wrong and has made bad decisions. That is why we have seen changes under his watch. But, he also understood that keeping Hue for a few seasons, and ridding the organization of the stigma of firing head coaches after one or two seasons needed to end.Being in a corporate setting, I can understand JH going with Sachi and the whole analytics route. It didn't work, JH saw that, and brought in a seasoned football guy who I feel made this team better.
However, we have issues in the coaching ranks. There is a power struggle right now. Heads are going to roll.Please keep in mind, we have an owner that is NOTHING like Jerry Jones. Nothing. But I do think we have an owner that wants to win and is trying to make that happen. I would much rather have JH, then the previous guy (Can't even remember his name). I like Dorsey. THe problem is Hue. Hue is slimy. He refuses to take full ownership of problems that happen clearly under his watch. I also personally don't like what I am seeing out Haley and his offensive plan.
Keep in mind, Dorsey is a smart guy. Not his first rodeo in dealing with NFL personalities and coaching issues. We have to trust that he and JH will make the right choices.I don't think Haslam is the reason for our woes . Ask Jimmy if he wants to win, he will say yes. Ask Jimmy if he wants to win a Superbowl, he will say yes.
Knowing this, logically we have to assume that every decision he does is for the betterment of the organization, right or wrong. I'll assume that JH understands when he is wrong and has made bad decisions. That is why we have seen changes under his watch. But, he also understood that keeping Hue for a few seasons, and ridding the organization of the stigma of firing head coaches after one or two seasons needed to end.Being in a corporate setting, I can understand JH going with Sachi and the whole analytics route. It didn't work, JH saw that, and brought in a seasoned football guy who I feel made this team better.
However, we have issues in the coaching ranks. There is a power struggle right now. Heads are going to roll.Please keep in mind, we have an owner that is NOTHING like Jerry Jones. Nothing. But I do think we have an owner that wants to win and is trying to make that happen. I would much rather have JH, then the previous guy (Can't even remember his name). I like Dorsey. THe problem is Hue. Hue is slimy. He refuses to take full ownership of problems that happen clearly under his watch. I also personally don't like what I am seeing out Haley and his offensive plan.
Keep in mind, Dorsey is a smart guy. Not his first rodeo in dealing with NFL personalities and coaching issues. We have to trust that he and JH will make the right choices.Pretty much nailed it. Over time, Hue has lost me. This year - my conclusions are:
A. Hue is a great guy, but not tough or disciplined himself. Maybe the final straw was when they were asking him after the squealer debacle, about the time outs he didn't use in the first half. Didn't he say he didn't remember... do I have that right???
Seriously, Hue?
B. Next point, referencing not taking those timeouts - Hue shows no fire, years of patience but not fixing any problem. Like, maybe he thinks they will work themselves out as long as he continues to be nice? I don't know. I just don't get it.
C. Hue isn't aggressive, also indicated partly by his not taking those timeouts. He seems to go week in, week out, with wanting everybody to love him. Players, fans, media, etc etc. It seems to overshadow everything he does. That isn't a head coaches job.
Back to the players -
per https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/depth-chart,
they don't have a backup at center and left tackle listed.Tretter and Zeitler were/are banged up, still took the field. I like Desmond Harrison, but he just is NOT a LT that can handle anybody that he faces.
D. I honestly think Hue just isn't a great hc, and maybe.... I'd promote Williams to head coach. Just a hunch from a distance -
but it seems that our DC and OC are fine. ....and Hue just gets in the way.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch - the Browns need to draft a blue-chippie OLT, a true #1 WR (maybe NKeal Henry, Arizona?)
mebbe ...Metcalf? Ole Miss?
The Browns didn't match up well vs the squealers the second game, because of injuries. They can't afford them.
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and thsts why we need a new owner.
good point...but how do you get the owner fired....not sure how that is done....a buyout maybe...i don't know...
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Dumping money into the stadium could be Haslam's idea of ensuring his cashflow.. that people pay to watch the games even if the team stinks.
You missed the point. Stadium revenue is a nice perk for the owners- but it's not their major source of revenue. That's TV contracts, FYI. Starting with off the top of my head, the $4 billion Directv pays the NFL for exclusive rights to Sunday Ticket.
You missed the point. Stadium revenue is a nice perk for the owners- but it's not their major source of revenue. That's TV contracts, FYI. Starting with off the top of my head, the $4 billion Directv pays the NFL for exclusive rights to Sunday Ticket.
and i think the owners share that money....i guess....there should be a way where they can tell what percentage of the fans are watching certain teams and then somehow figure out that percentage into revenue...for instance...if our shitass team has a very low percentage of viewers...then pooper haslem gets a low return...but i don't think they can figure that out yet....don't knwo...
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The "boss" needs to adress this simking ship. Dont ask what needs to be said, but leadership from the very top is whats necessary right now. Would be better if the owner was actually from the area and a long time fan but whatever.....jimmy needs to take some personal action like tommorrow morning. And no judt firing some jokers to bring in some new jokers isnt gonna cut it
The "Boss" is inefficient. He's spent the lowest of any team the past 5 years (or something like that).
Sashi was the first scapegoat, and Hue is the next scapegoat.
Haley is Hue's scapegoat to buy more time for Hue.
Moneyball is over, yet we're still the cheapest NFL team.
Maybe team's with no talent can't win. We need real talent. We've had practice squad receivers for how many years now? Now we have Hubbard and a rookie protecting Baker?
Now we're rumored to trade Devalve, Jamie Collins, and the other vets we have again? Doesn't that seem like we're starting moneyball over from scratch AGAIN?
Jimmy needs to spend his money, point blank. Not wait 4-5 years to hit free agency, not to try to get late fifth round picks and build through the draft, but to bring in some big name free agents. Jarvis Landry is all we have at WR. Higgins is a WR4 on most teams at best, and Calloway is light years away to where Calvin Ridley is now.
As much as some disliked Gordon and Hyde, they made Baker better because we had more CBs looking at Josh and Landry, and in addition, getting open more.
This makes me wonder, why we stripped the Team of depth, such as getting rid of Nassib and others. Why would we do such a thing? My Take : It saves Jimmy money with his "moneyball" aka owning a football team for as cheap as possible, and making money regardless of how little he spends on salary.
The "Boss" is inefficient. He's spent the lowest of any team the past 5 years (or something like that).
Sashi was the first scapegoat, and Hue is the next scapegoat.
Haley is Hue's scapegoat to buy more time for Hue.
Moneyball is over, yet we're still the cheapest NFL team.
Maybe team's with no talent can't win. We need real talent. We've had practice squad receivers for how many years now? Now we have Hubbard and a rookie protecting Baker?
Now we're rumored to trade Devalve, Jamie Collins, and the other vets we have again? Doesn't that seem like we're starting moneyball over from scratch AGAIN?
Jimmy needs to spend his money, point blank. Not wait 4-5 years to hit free agency, not to try to get late fifth round picks and build through the draft, but to bring in some big name free agents. Jarvis Landry is all we have at WR. Higgins is a WR4 on most teams at best, and Calloway is light years away to where Calvin Ridley is now.
As much as some disliked Gordon and Hyde, they made Baker better because we had more CBs looking at Josh and Landry, and in addition, getting open more.
This makes me wonder, why we stripped the Team of depth, such as getting rid of Nassib and others. Why would we do such a thing? My Take : It saves Jimmy money with his "moneyball" aka owning a football team for as cheap as possible, and making money regardless of how little he spends on salary.
i said it before.....josh gordon situation really screwed us because it looks like he is returning to what he used to be yrs ago....he would have made all our other wr's look better because, lets face it...landry is not a future hof'er ......he is not even a number 1 wideout in this league...but i think he would have been a little more productive with gordon drawing alot of attention from the db's....oh well....that's the way it goes in good ole clown town...
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The Browns completely tore this franchise down to the studs prior to the 2016 season. Over the last few seasons the overwhelming majority of the team was made up rookies or second year players. Players that tend to be relatively cheap. Dorsey recently admitted that the team is still in the rebuilding phase.
Name me one team in any sport that spent a good amount of money on their payroll during a complete rebuild of their franchise. Do you want me to post the payrolls of the 2013-2015 Houston Astros?
The Browns completely tore this franchise down to the studs prior to the 2016 season. Over the last few seasons the overwhelming majority of the team was made up rookies or second year players. Players that tend to be relatively cheap. Dorsey recently admitted that the team is still in the rebuilding phase.
Name me one team in any sport that spent a good amount of money on their payroll during a complete rebuild of their franchise. Do you want me to post the payrolls of the 2013-2015 Houston Astros?
Actually, there was almost a complete teardown of this team prior to this season.
I believe that over half the starters on this team are new from last year:
QB: Mayfield plus all backups new
RB: Chubb (Duke leftover as backup)
WR: Landry/Calloway (only like Higgins is left)
OTs: Harrison, Hubbard. (Only the three interior OL are left: Tretter, Bito, Zeitler)
TE Njoku only a second year player
6 out of 11 new starters on offense.
Defense:
Only like 2d year man Peppers is back plus backup DB Kindred. (and Peppers is in new position)
LB corps still there: Schobert, Collins, Kirksey (Schobert out hurt)
DL, Most still around from before.....but it definitely could use an infusion of new blood.
So....I don't know how you define "complete teardown", would over 50% of the starters be that?
Of course, the one thing that has stayed the same is perhaps our weakest link: Head Coach. And we could, yes, use a teardown there.
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