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Universal Basic Income?

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  • Clevfan4life C Banned Very Popular
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    C Clevfan4life wrote on last edited by
    #16

    and the economy today may be intermediarly boosted by irrstional exhuberance but it takes years if not DECADES of sustained growth to accuratrly judge anybody policies. Short term stimulus of an economy is EASY.....but if it gsrners a rubber bsnd snap bsck in a few years what was it worth?? just makes a very select people a good chunk of money but tge rest of us suffer when the bubble pops.

    OldBrownsFanO 1 Reply Last reply
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    • C Clevfan4life

      and the economy today may be intermediarly boosted by irrstional exhuberance but it takes years if not DECADES of sustained growth to accuratrly judge anybody policies. Short term stimulus of an economy is EASY.....but if it gsrners a rubber bsnd snap bsck in a few years what was it worth?? just makes a very select people a good chunk of money but tge rest of us suffer when the bubble pops.

      OldBrownsFan OldBrownsFanO
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      OldBrownsFanO OldBrownsFan wrote on last edited by
      #17

      @clevfan4life said:

      and the economy today may be intermediarly boosted by irrstional exhuberance but it takes years if not DECADES of sustained growth to accuratrly judge anybody policies. Short term stimulus of an economy is EASY.....but if it gsrners a rubber bsnd snap bsck in a few years what was it worth?? just makes a very select people a good chunk of money but tge rest of us suffer when the bubble pops.

      Tell that to Obama so he will stop trying to take credit for the economy under Trump...

      C 1 Reply Last reply
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      • OldBrownsFanO OldBrownsFan

        @clevfan4life said:

        and the economy today may be intermediarly boosted by irrstional exhuberance but it takes years if not DECADES of sustained growth to accuratrly judge anybody policies. Short term stimulus of an economy is EASY.....but if it gsrners a rubber bsnd snap bsck in a few years what was it worth?? just makes a very select people a good chunk of money but tge rest of us suffer when the bubble pops.

        Tell that to Obama so he will stop trying to take credit for the economy under Trump...

        Clevfan4life C Banned Very Popular
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        C Clevfan4life wrote on last edited by Clevfan4life
        #18

        @oldbrownsfan said:

        Tell that to Obama so he will stop trying to take credit for the economy under Trump...

        fair enough...all presidents do this. Trump will take credit for what happens under the next guy...will u hold him to the same standard ur holding obama to right there?

        W GorkaG 2 Replies Last reply
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        • C Clevfan4life

          @oldbrownsfan said:

          Tell that to Obama so he will stop trying to take credit for the economy under Trump...

          fair enough...all presidents do this. Trump will take credit for what happens under the next guy...will u hold him to the same standard ur holding obama to right there?

          Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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          W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by Westside Steve
          #19

          @clevfan4life said:

          fair enough...all presidents do this. Trump will take credit for what happens under the next guy...will u hold him to the same standard ur holding obama to right there?

          That will kind of depend on the economy if the Democrats take over. And sweep the houses. I doubt he'll take credit for the upcoming recession

          WSS

          www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
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          • Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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            W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by Westside Steve
            #20

            And isn't it just a little bit early to start preparing for the post-apocalypse? Yes I know Mad Max and Zager and Evans 2525 are groundbreaking societal dystopian predictions but we aren't quite to the point of machines doing everything while 95% of the human beings lay around ingesting hallucinogens and waiting for food deliveries. As much as the DNC would love it.

            WSS

            www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
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            • The Cysko Kid T Conversation Starter Reacting Well Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Week One Done One Month Later One Year In
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              T The Cysko Kid wrote on last edited by
              #21

              I wouldn't be opposed with one caveat: it's taken from the bezos' and soros' and Zuckerbergs' of the world. The ordinary person pays nothing. And it's not a sliding payscale. I get the same, on top of my income, as an indigent freeloader in the metropolitan housing projects. .

              That's really unlikely to happen. Since it's probably Democrats pushing for it, I suspect they'll want to pay more or less depending on your rank in the victim heirarchy. 

              Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind...
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              • C Clevfan4life

                @oldbrownsfan said:

                Tell that to Obama so he will stop trying to take credit for the economy under Trump...

                fair enough...all presidents do this. Trump will take credit for what happens under the next guy...will u hold him to the same standard ur holding obama to right there?

                Gorka GorkaG Dedicated Conversation Starter Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In Week One Done One Month Later Very Popular
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                GorkaG Gorka wrote on last edited by
                #22

                @clevfan4life said:

                fair enough...all presidents do this. Trump will take credit for what happens under the next guy...will u hold him to the same standard ur holding obama to right there?

                Obama is a narcissistic a-hole. Trump is the first American president that can  legitimately take credit for the success of the economy under a sitting president,  although good argument can be made for Reagan.

                To jog your memory...recall Obama and Biden both were telling us that the 1% growth rate at the time was the "new normal, so get used to it?"

                Those two told us that America’s best days were behind us, that the past records of economic growth were unreal, yet Obama has the gall to think he is to be credited for an economy and unemployment rate unseen in our lifetimes?

                Obama had zero interest in boosting the US economy, only the global economy. You know it's true.

                Obama said manufacturing jobs were never coming back. "Hows Trump gonna do it, wave a magic wand?"

                No here's how:

                Hopefully the sources meet your approval.

                Deregulation under President Trump | Manufacturing Regulations ...

                 
                https://www.industryweek.com/.../deregulation-under-president-trump-behind-numbe...

                Trump Removes Restrictions on Ethanol Gas at Iowa Rally | Fortune

                 
                fortune.com › Leadership › Environmental Protection Agency
                 
                Mar 8, 2018 - Fewer New Regulations under the Trump Administration ... One of the Trump major rules was a de-regulatory action (removal of the Obama-era ...

                How Trump launched the biggest regulatory rollback in American history

                 
                https://theweek.com/.../how-trump-launched-biggest-regulatory-rollback-american-his...
                1. Cached
                Oct 9, 2018 - One Day After Catastrophic UN Climate Report, Trump Removes ... benefits are more than offset by the emissions caused in producing ethanol.

                37 Ways Donald Trump Has Remade the Rules for Business - WSJ

                 
                https://www.wsj.com/.../how-donald-trump-has-remade-the-rules-for-business-1516190...
                Jan 17, 2018 - The Trump administration in its first year has pushed for deregulation ... Status: Done; Impact: Manufacturers will save the cost of removing the ...

                Trump administration cancels hundreds of Obama-era regulations ...

                 
                https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../trump...regulations/.../55f501cc-6d68-11e7-96ab-5f...
                Jul 20, 2017 - Trump administration cancels hundreds of Obama-era regulations ... authorized laws, and the White House cannot unilaterally remove them. ... In the National Association of Manufacturers' most recent survey of its members, ...

                How the Trump Administration Pulled Back on Regulating Toxic ...

                 
                https://e360.yale.edu/.../how-trump-administration-has-pulled-back-on-regulating-toxi...
                1. Cached
                Feb 12, 2019 - The Trump administration has halted bans on toxic chemicals that are ... curtailed its ability to remove known hazards like asbestos from the market. ... The pullback on the planned restrictions on toxic substances reflects the ... use of certain chemicals that might be profitable sales lines for the manufacturers.

                Trump rolls back worker safety rules - POLITICO

                 
                https://www.politico.com/.../trumps-worker-safety-regulations-protections-unions-806...
                1. Cached
                Sep 3, 2018 - We want to protect our workers,” Trump said in 2017. ... When President Donald Trump came into office pledging to cut regulations “massively,” he made ... especially in traditional industries like manufacturing and coal mining. ... proposal that they seek to remove “unnecessary regulatory obstacles” and cut ...

                78 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump - The New York ...

                 
                https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/.../trump-environment-rules-reversed.html
                Oct 5, 2017 - This is the full list of environmental policies the Trump administration has targeted, ... rule designed to limit toxic emissions from major industrial polluters. ... cover the costs of removing rigs once they have stopped producing.

                23 Environmental Rules Rolled Back in Trump's First 100 Days - The ...

                 
                https://www.nytimes.com/.../2017/.../environmental-rules-reversed-trump-100-days.html
                May 2, 2017 - Citing federal overreach and burdensome regulations, Mr. Trump has prioritized .... The rule required tire manufacturers and retailers to provide …

                 

                Sep 9, 2017 - President Trump speaks at a Michigan manufacturing company. ... actions as president was to remove an Obama-era ethics restriction banning …
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                • MLD Woody MLD WoodyM Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular First Post Collaborator Posting Machine Reacting Well One Month Later One Year In Week One Done
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                  Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
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                  • tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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                    tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
                    #24

                    Just going to leave this here... 

                    https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

                    W OldBrownsFanO 2 Replies Last reply
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                    • tiamat63T tiamat63

                      Just going to leave this here... 

                      https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

                      Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                      W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by
                      #25

                      @tiamat63 said:

                      Just going to leave this here... 

                      https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

                      Not to mention automatic delivery via drones or programmed vehicles on the horizon. And that's just for your retail stuff.

                      Even more reason to staunch the flow of illegals flooding the United States. 

                      WSS

                      www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
                      tiamat63T 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • tiamat63T tiamat63

                        Just going to leave this here... 

                        https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

                        OldBrownsFan OldBrownsFanO
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                        OldBrownsFanO OldBrownsFan wrote on last edited by
                        #26

                        @tiamat63 said:

                        Just going to leave this here... 

                        https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

                        If you think 10 years away is a long time than I guess that puts your mind at ease for the time being  but I think 10 years will come quickly ....

                        tiamat63T 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • W Westside Steve

                          @tiamat63 said:

                          Just going to leave this here... 

                          https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

                          Not to mention automatic delivery via drones or programmed vehicles on the horizon. And that's just for your retail stuff.

                          Even more reason to staunch the flow of illegals flooding the United States. 

                          WSS

                          tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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                          tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
                          #27

                          @westside-steve said:

                          Not to mention automatic delivery via drones or programmed vehicles on the horizon. And that's just for your retail stuff.

                          Even more reason to staunch the flow of illegals flooding the United States. 

                          WSS

                          Illegals aren't filling these jobs nor the bulk of jobs most "normal" Americans are going to lose.      Not that I don't believe the entire border, INS and the like require an overhaul including the asylum and security measures.   

                          Point being - you have corporate tax rates slashed, less money for local and state infrastructure then you have to take into account subsidies.   And, as per this example, you have multiple industries working to even further automate their processes = loss of jobs = loss of tax revenue.  

                          Not ideal all around. 

                          C W 2 Replies Last reply
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                          • OldBrownsFanO OldBrownsFan

                            @tiamat63 said:

                            Just going to leave this here... 

                            https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

                            If you think 10 years away is a long time than I guess that puts your mind at ease for the time being  but I think 10 years will come quickly ....

                            tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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                            tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
                            #28

                            @oldbrownsfan said:

                            If you think 10 years away is a long time than I guess that puts your mind at ease for the time being  but I think 10 years will come quickly ....

                            I don't believe 10 years is a long time at all.   2009 was 10 years ago.  Let that sink in. 

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                            • tiamat63T tiamat63

                              @westside-steve said:

                              Not to mention automatic delivery via drones or programmed vehicles on the horizon. And that's just for your retail stuff.

                              Even more reason to staunch the flow of illegals flooding the United States. 

                              WSS

                              Illegals aren't filling these jobs nor the bulk of jobs most "normal" Americans are going to lose.      Not that I don't believe the entire border, INS and the like require an overhaul including the asylum and security measures.   

                              Point being - you have corporate tax rates slashed, less money for local and state infrastructure then you have to take into account subsidies.   And, as per this example, you have multiple industries working to even further automate their processes = loss of jobs = loss of tax revenue.  

                              Not ideal all around. 

                              calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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                              C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by
                              #29

                              @tiamat63 said:

                              Point being - you have corporate tax rates slashed, less money for local and state infrastructure then you have to take into account subsidies.   And, as per this example, you have multiple industries working to even further automate their processes = loss of jobs = loss of tax revenue.  

                                er... okay... those were corporate tax rates on the FEDERAL LEVEL. Not local and state taxes? The more federal tax you levy on companies, the less money they have for capital growth and accruing resources...

                                  economics was not one of my favortie subjects.....but I believe the state and local taxes rates would stay the same.

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                              • tiamat63T tiamat63

                                @westside-steve said:

                                Not to mention automatic delivery via drones or programmed vehicles on the horizon. And that's just for your retail stuff.

                                Even more reason to staunch the flow of illegals flooding the United States. 

                                WSS

                                Illegals aren't filling these jobs nor the bulk of jobs most "normal" Americans are going to lose.      Not that I don't believe the entire border, INS and the like require an overhaul including the asylum and security measures.   

                                Point being - you have corporate tax rates slashed, less money for local and state infrastructure then you have to take into account subsidies.   And, as per this example, you have multiple industries working to even further automate their processes = loss of jobs = loss of tax revenue.  

                                Not ideal all around. 

                                Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                                W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by
                                #30

                                @tiamat63 said:

                                Illegals aren't filling these jobs nor the bulk of jobs most "normal" Americans are going to lose.      Not that I don't believe the entire border, INS and the like require an overhaul including the asylum and security measures.   

                                 seems like you are making my own argument. These jobs are going away and like Springsteen said and they aren't coming back. And the illegals are coming in without those jobs to fill. Not only that but wait until they figure out a way to pick grapes with a machine. Well more efficiently actually since they already do.

                                Point being - you have corporate tax rates slashed, less money for local and state infrastructure then you have to take into account subsidies.   And, as per this example, you have multiple industries working to even further automate their processes = loss of jobs = loss of tax revenue.  

                                Not ideal all around. 

                                 automation is the future. We can't stop it. We couldn't stop it with the assembly line or the electric hair dryer or the vacuum cleaner or the washing machine and we won't stop it now.

                                 not ideal at all. You are correct. But...

                                WSS

                                www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
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                                • Clevfan4life C Banned Very Popular
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                                  C Clevfan4life wrote on last edited by
                                  #31

                                  but lets make sure abortion is illegal so we have as many people on the planet as possible with nothing to do when the automation revolution hits in full. 

                                  W 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • C Clevfan4life

                                    but lets make sure abortion is illegal so we have as many people on the planet as possible with nothing to do when the automation revolution hits in full. 

                                    Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                                    W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by
                                    #32

                                    @clevfan4life said:

                                    but lets make sure abortion is illegal so we have as many people on the planet as possible with nothing to do when the automation revolution hits in full. 

                                    One more time abortion is never going to be illegal so drop the straw man. Plus it's perfectly legal now and not changing anybody's reproductive habits whatsoever. 

                                    WSS

                                    www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
                                    C 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • W Westside Steve

                                      @clevfan4life said:

                                      but lets make sure abortion is illegal so we have as many people on the planet as possible with nothing to do when the automation revolution hits in full. 

                                      One more time abortion is never going to be illegal so drop the straw man. Plus it's perfectly legal now and not changing anybody's reproductive habits whatsoever. 

                                      WSS

                                      Clevfan4life C Banned Very Popular
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                                      C Clevfan4life wrote on last edited by
                                      #33

                                      @westside-steve said:

                                      One more time abortion is never going to be illegal so drop the straw man. 

                                      how is it a straw man when making abortion completely illegal even in rape cases is what the right is pushing for? ?

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                                      • C Clevfan4life

                                        @westside-steve said:

                                        One more time abortion is never going to be illegal so drop the straw man. 

                                        how is it a straw man when making abortion completely illegal even in rape cases is what the right is pushing for? ?

                                        Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                                        W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by Westside Steve
                                        #34

                                        @clevfan4life said:

                                        how is it a straw man when making abortion completely illegal even in rape cases is what the right is pushing for? ?

                                        Because it's never going to happen.  Ever. 

                                        WSS

                                        www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
                                        C 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • W Westside Steve

                                          @clevfan4life said:

                                          how is it a straw man when making abortion completely illegal even in rape cases is what the right is pushing for? ?

                                          Because it's never going to happen.  Ever. 

                                          WSS

                                          Clevfan4life C Banned Very Popular
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                                          C Clevfan4life wrote on last edited by
                                          #35

                                          @westside-steve said:

                                          Because it's never going to happen.  Ever. 

                                          WSS

                                          So you don't understand what a straw man is, got it. Whether it happens or not "ever", is debateable. I would "maybe" have agreed with you a few months ago but now with all these new state bills coming out that directly forbid abortions after the heartbeat EVEN in cases of rape and health of mother....yeah im not so sure now. But it can't be a "straw man" if that's infact exactly what the right wants....and tells us so daily. Even right here at the poly board. 

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