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Universal Basic Income?

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  • The Cysko Kid T Conversation Starter Reacting Well Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Week One Done One Month Later One Year In
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    T The Cysko Kid wrote on last edited by
    #21

    I wouldn't be opposed with one caveat: it's taken from the bezos' and soros' and Zuckerbergs' of the world. The ordinary person pays nothing. And it's not a sliding payscale. I get the same, on top of my income, as an indigent freeloader in the metropolitan housing projects. .

    That's really unlikely to happen. Since it's probably Democrats pushing for it, I suspect they'll want to pay more or less depending on your rank in the victim heirarchy. 

    Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind...
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    • C Clevfan4life

      @oldbrownsfan said:

      Tell that to Obama so he will stop trying to take credit for the economy under Trump...

      fair enough...all presidents do this. Trump will take credit for what happens under the next guy...will u hold him to the same standard ur holding obama to right there?

      Gorka GorkaG Dedicated Conversation Starter Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In Week One Done One Month Later Very Popular
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      GorkaG Gorka wrote on last edited by
      #22

      @clevfan4life said:

      fair enough...all presidents do this. Trump will take credit for what happens under the next guy...will u hold him to the same standard ur holding obama to right there?

      Obama is a narcissistic a-hole. Trump is the first American president that can  legitimately take credit for the success of the economy under a sitting president,  although good argument can be made for Reagan.

      To jog your memory...recall Obama and Biden both were telling us that the 1% growth rate at the time was the "new normal, so get used to it?"

      Those two told us that America’s best days were behind us, that the past records of economic growth were unreal, yet Obama has the gall to think he is to be credited for an economy and unemployment rate unseen in our lifetimes?

      Obama had zero interest in boosting the US economy, only the global economy. You know it's true.

      Obama said manufacturing jobs were never coming back. "Hows Trump gonna do it, wave a magic wand?"

      No here's how:

      Hopefully the sources meet your approval.

      Deregulation under President Trump | Manufacturing Regulations ...

       
      https://www.industryweek.com/.../deregulation-under-president-trump-behind-numbe...

      Trump Removes Restrictions on Ethanol Gas at Iowa Rally | Fortune

       
      fortune.com › Leadership › Environmental Protection Agency
       
      Mar 8, 2018 - Fewer New Regulations under the Trump Administration ... One of the Trump major rules was a de-regulatory action (removal of the Obama-era ...

      How Trump launched the biggest regulatory rollback in American history

       
      https://theweek.com/.../how-trump-launched-biggest-regulatory-rollback-american-his...
      1. Cached
      Oct 9, 2018 - One Day After Catastrophic UN Climate Report, Trump Removes ... benefits are more than offset by the emissions caused in producing ethanol.

      37 Ways Donald Trump Has Remade the Rules for Business - WSJ

       
      https://www.wsj.com/.../how-donald-trump-has-remade-the-rules-for-business-1516190...
      Jan 17, 2018 - The Trump administration in its first year has pushed for deregulation ... Status: Done; Impact: Manufacturers will save the cost of removing the ...

      Trump administration cancels hundreds of Obama-era regulations ...

       
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../trump...regulations/.../55f501cc-6d68-11e7-96ab-5f...
      Jul 20, 2017 - Trump administration cancels hundreds of Obama-era regulations ... authorized laws, and the White House cannot unilaterally remove them. ... In the National Association of Manufacturers' most recent survey of its members, ...

      How the Trump Administration Pulled Back on Regulating Toxic ...

       
      https://e360.yale.edu/.../how-trump-administration-has-pulled-back-on-regulating-toxi...
      1. Cached
      Feb 12, 2019 - The Trump administration has halted bans on toxic chemicals that are ... curtailed its ability to remove known hazards like asbestos from the market. ... The pullback on the planned restrictions on toxic substances reflects the ... use of certain chemicals that might be profitable sales lines for the manufacturers.

      Trump rolls back worker safety rules - POLITICO

       
      https://www.politico.com/.../trumps-worker-safety-regulations-protections-unions-806...
      1. Cached
      Sep 3, 2018 - We want to protect our workers,” Trump said in 2017. ... When President Donald Trump came into office pledging to cut regulations “massively,” he made ... especially in traditional industries like manufacturing and coal mining. ... proposal that they seek to remove “unnecessary regulatory obstacles” and cut ...

      78 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump - The New York ...

       
      https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/.../trump-environment-rules-reversed.html
      Oct 5, 2017 - This is the full list of environmental policies the Trump administration has targeted, ... rule designed to limit toxic emissions from major industrial polluters. ... cover the costs of removing rigs once they have stopped producing.

      23 Environmental Rules Rolled Back in Trump's First 100 Days - The ...

       
      https://www.nytimes.com/.../2017/.../environmental-rules-reversed-trump-100-days.html
      May 2, 2017 - Citing federal overreach and burdensome regulations, Mr. Trump has prioritized .... The rule required tire manufacturers and retailers to provide …

       

      Sep 9, 2017 - President Trump speaks at a Michigan manufacturing company. ... actions as president was to remove an Obama-era ethics restriction banning …
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      • MLD Woody MLD WoodyM Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular First Post Collaborator Posting Machine Reacting Well One Month Later One Year In Week One Done
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        MLD WoodyM MLD Woody wrote on last edited by
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        Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
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        • tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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          tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
          #24

          Just going to leave this here... 

          https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

          W OldBrownsFanO 2 Replies Last reply
          Quote Reply
          • tiamat63T tiamat63

            Just going to leave this here... 

            https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

            Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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            W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by
            #25

            @tiamat63 said:

            Just going to leave this here... 

            https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

            Not to mention automatic delivery via drones or programmed vehicles on the horizon. And that's just for your retail stuff.

            Even more reason to staunch the flow of illegals flooding the United States. 

            WSS

            www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
            tiamat63T 1 Reply Last reply
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            • tiamat63T tiamat63

              Just going to leave this here... 

              https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

              OldBrownsFan OldBrownsFanO
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              OldBrownsFanO OldBrownsFan wrote on last edited by
              #26

              @tiamat63 said:

              Just going to leave this here... 

              https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

              If you think 10 years away is a long time than I guess that puts your mind at ease for the time being  but I think 10 years will come quickly ....

              tiamat63T 1 Reply Last reply
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              • W Westside Steve

                @tiamat63 said:

                Just going to leave this here... 

                https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

                Not to mention automatic delivery via drones or programmed vehicles on the horizon. And that's just for your retail stuff.

                Even more reason to staunch the flow of illegals flooding the United States. 

                WSS

                tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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                tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
                #27

                @westside-steve said:

                Not to mention automatic delivery via drones or programmed vehicles on the horizon. And that's just for your retail stuff.

                Even more reason to staunch the flow of illegals flooding the United States. 

                WSS

                Illegals aren't filling these jobs nor the bulk of jobs most "normal" Americans are going to lose.      Not that I don't believe the entire border, INS and the like require an overhaul including the asylum and security measures.   

                Point being - you have corporate tax rates slashed, less money for local and state infrastructure then you have to take into account subsidies.   And, as per this example, you have multiple industries working to even further automate their processes = loss of jobs = loss of tax revenue.  

                Not ideal all around. 

                C W 2 Replies Last reply
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                • OldBrownsFanO OldBrownsFan

                  @tiamat63 said:

                  Just going to leave this here... 

                  https://gizmodo.com/fully-automated-warehouses-are-a-decade-away-amazon-sa-1834459784/amp

                  If you think 10 years away is a long time than I guess that puts your mind at ease for the time being  but I think 10 years will come quickly ....

                  tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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                  tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  @oldbrownsfan said:

                  If you think 10 years away is a long time than I guess that puts your mind at ease for the time being  but I think 10 years will come quickly ....

                  I don't believe 10 years is a long time at all.   2009 was 10 years ago.  Let that sink in. 

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                  • tiamat63T tiamat63

                    @westside-steve said:

                    Not to mention automatic delivery via drones or programmed vehicles on the horizon. And that's just for your retail stuff.

                    Even more reason to staunch the flow of illegals flooding the United States. 

                    WSS

                    Illegals aren't filling these jobs nor the bulk of jobs most "normal" Americans are going to lose.      Not that I don't believe the entire border, INS and the like require an overhaul including the asylum and security measures.   

                    Point being - you have corporate tax rates slashed, less money for local and state infrastructure then you have to take into account subsidies.   And, as per this example, you have multiple industries working to even further automate their processes = loss of jobs = loss of tax revenue.  

                    Not ideal all around. 

                    calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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                    C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    @tiamat63 said:

                    Point being - you have corporate tax rates slashed, less money for local and state infrastructure then you have to take into account subsidies.   And, as per this example, you have multiple industries working to even further automate their processes = loss of jobs = loss of tax revenue.  

                      er... okay... those were corporate tax rates on the FEDERAL LEVEL. Not local and state taxes? The more federal tax you levy on companies, the less money they have for capital growth and accruing resources...

                        economics was not one of my favortie subjects.....but I believe the state and local taxes rates would stay the same.

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                    • tiamat63T tiamat63

                      @westside-steve said:

                      Not to mention automatic delivery via drones or programmed vehicles on the horizon. And that's just for your retail stuff.

                      Even more reason to staunch the flow of illegals flooding the United States. 

                      WSS

                      Illegals aren't filling these jobs nor the bulk of jobs most "normal" Americans are going to lose.      Not that I don't believe the entire border, INS and the like require an overhaul including the asylum and security measures.   

                      Point being - you have corporate tax rates slashed, less money for local and state infrastructure then you have to take into account subsidies.   And, as per this example, you have multiple industries working to even further automate their processes = loss of jobs = loss of tax revenue.  

                      Not ideal all around. 

                      Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                      W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      @tiamat63 said:

                      Illegals aren't filling these jobs nor the bulk of jobs most "normal" Americans are going to lose.      Not that I don't believe the entire border, INS and the like require an overhaul including the asylum and security measures.   

                       seems like you are making my own argument. These jobs are going away and like Springsteen said and they aren't coming back. And the illegals are coming in without those jobs to fill. Not only that but wait until they figure out a way to pick grapes with a machine. Well more efficiently actually since they already do.

                      Point being - you have corporate tax rates slashed, less money for local and state infrastructure then you have to take into account subsidies.   And, as per this example, you have multiple industries working to even further automate their processes = loss of jobs = loss of tax revenue.  

                      Not ideal all around. 

                       automation is the future. We can't stop it. We couldn't stop it with the assembly line or the electric hair dryer or the vacuum cleaner or the washing machine and we won't stop it now.

                       not ideal at all. You are correct. But...

                      WSS

                      www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
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                      • Clevfan4life C Banned Very Popular
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                        C Clevfan4life wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        but lets make sure abortion is illegal so we have as many people on the planet as possible with nothing to do when the automation revolution hits in full. 

                        W 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • C Clevfan4life

                          but lets make sure abortion is illegal so we have as many people on the planet as possible with nothing to do when the automation revolution hits in full. 

                          Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                          W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          @clevfan4life said:

                          but lets make sure abortion is illegal so we have as many people on the planet as possible with nothing to do when the automation revolution hits in full. 

                          One more time abortion is never going to be illegal so drop the straw man. Plus it's perfectly legal now and not changing anybody's reproductive habits whatsoever. 

                          WSS

                          www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
                          C 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • W Westside Steve

                            @clevfan4life said:

                            but lets make sure abortion is illegal so we have as many people on the planet as possible with nothing to do when the automation revolution hits in full. 

                            One more time abortion is never going to be illegal so drop the straw man. Plus it's perfectly legal now and not changing anybody's reproductive habits whatsoever. 

                            WSS

                            Clevfan4life C Banned Very Popular
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                            C Clevfan4life wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            @westside-steve said:

                            One more time abortion is never going to be illegal so drop the straw man. 

                            how is it a straw man when making abortion completely illegal even in rape cases is what the right is pushing for? ?

                            W 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • C Clevfan4life

                              @westside-steve said:

                              One more time abortion is never going to be illegal so drop the straw man. 

                              how is it a straw man when making abortion completely illegal even in rape cases is what the right is pushing for? ?

                              Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                              W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by Westside Steve
                              #34

                              @clevfan4life said:

                              how is it a straw man when making abortion completely illegal even in rape cases is what the right is pushing for? ?

                              Because it's never going to happen.  Ever. 

                              WSS

                              www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
                              C 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • W Westside Steve

                                @clevfan4life said:

                                how is it a straw man when making abortion completely illegal even in rape cases is what the right is pushing for? ?

                                Because it's never going to happen.  Ever. 

                                WSS

                                Clevfan4life C Banned Very Popular
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                                C Clevfan4life wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                @westside-steve said:

                                Because it's never going to happen.  Ever. 

                                WSS

                                So you don't understand what a straw man is, got it. Whether it happens or not "ever", is debateable. I would "maybe" have agreed with you a few months ago but now with all these new state bills coming out that directly forbid abortions after the heartbeat EVEN in cases of rape and health of mother....yeah im not so sure now. But it can't be a "straw man" if that's infact exactly what the right wants....and tells us so daily. Even right here at the poly board. 

                                W 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • C Clevfan4life

                                  @westside-steve said:

                                  Because it's never going to happen.  Ever. 

                                  WSS

                                  So you don't understand what a straw man is, got it. Whether it happens or not "ever", is debateable. I would "maybe" have agreed with you a few months ago but now with all these new state bills coming out that directly forbid abortions after the heartbeat EVEN in cases of rape and health of mother....yeah im not so sure now. But it can't be a "straw man" if that's infact exactly what the right wants....and tells us so daily. Even right here at the poly board. 

                                  Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                                  W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  @clevfan4life said:

                                  So you don't understand what a straw man is, got it. Whether it happens or not "ever", is debateable. I would "maybe" have agreed with you a few months ago but now with all these new state bills coming out that directly forbid abortions after the heartbeat EVEN in cases of rape and health of mother....yeah im not so sure now. But it can't be a "straw man" if that's infact exactly what the right wants....and tells us so daily. Even right here at the poly board. 

                                  Quit being an asshole. The straw man hereis "oh no they're going to make abortion illegal for everybody no matter what the circumstances then what will you do???"  . No dick head they're not. There are a handful of assholes  looking for attention.  Like you do but from the other side. The threat of making a crime of all abortion is the straw man argument. Because it's never going to happen and it's only a tiny sliver of people who wanted or even give a shit.

                                  Here's one let's fight the Democrats or the Socialists or the lefties or whatever the fuck you call yourselves because  you demand reparations for Negroes Indians Hispanics women you name it. And I have no doubt that many of them on the hard left feel just that way but going to war with them over it it's fighting the strawman. Like fighting the straw man.  Write a bill making abortion punishable by Death  or what the hell ever. I don't think most of even you assholes honestly believe that shit. 

                                  WSS

                                  www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
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                                  • Clevfan4life C Banned Very Popular
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                                    C Clevfan4life wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    well, the reperations thing will likely morph into the universal income. But i grant u its a massive political ploy, and most of the left leaning people here have acknowledged it. You cannot make that same argument with abortion...its been made law in multiple states including ohio. Where u live steve. Will it survive the courts? who knows...but u cant call it a political ploy now that pretty severe restrictions have been signed into law. 

                                    are leftists just trolling for poly points with their capricious attempts at gun control? U know better. 

                                    W 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • C Clevfan4life

                                      well, the reperations thing will likely morph into the universal income. But i grant u its a massive political ploy, and most of the left leaning people here have acknowledged it. You cannot make that same argument with abortion...its been made law in multiple states including ohio. Where u live steve. Will it survive the courts? who knows...but u cant call it a political ploy now that pretty severe restrictions have been signed into law. 

                                      are leftists just trolling for poly points with their capricious attempts at gun control? U know better. 

                                      Westside Steve W Dedicated Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Conversation Starter Week One Done One Year In One Month Later Very Popular
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                                      W Westside Steve wrote on last edited by Westside Steve
                                      #38

                                      @clevfan4life said:

                                      well, the reperations thing will likely morph into the universal income.

                                       it could but I think the Democrats more likely would prefer to focus on minorities oh, even though women aren't really a minority. Universal income it's fine for deadbeat white people to.

                                      But i grant u its a massive political ploy, and most of the left leaning people here have acknowledged it. You cannot make that same argument with abortion...its been made law in multiple states including ohio.

                                       that's not what we were talking about. It was suggested that zero tolerance even for cases of rape or incest Etc. The best you can say about the Ohio law or any law is that is just the tiniest bit more restrictive. And again I think even the hard love people, or most of them oh, we'll admit they believe that at some point the fetus becomes a human life. I tried to get people to admit that here but nobody would. And again remember I'm not a hardcore pro-lifer.

                                      Where u live steve. Will it survive the courts? who knows...but u cant call it a political ploy now that pretty severe restrictions have been signed into law. 

                                       I guess we just disagree on the term severe. I think the vast majority of Americans think abortion should be legal but there should be restrictions on late-term. Not very many support 8 months and 29 days and not many support none whatsoever even in rape or incest.

                                      are leftists just trolling for poly points with their capricious attempts at gun control? U know better. 

                                       in a way I think they are I think it's just one of those political issues you get assigned to when you decide to vote for a particular party. To be honest I don't think many on the left are truly eager to have their so-called common sense gun restrictions (example: a 10 shot semi-automatic rifle with a walnut stock is a rifle but if the stock is aluminum it's an assault weapon) into practice because they, like I, don't honestly believe they will change anything. And then one of two things happens. Everybody is forced to admit that those restrictions didn't make one iota of difference and it is seen as a defeat for the left or the country decides on even more Draconian measures.

                                      WSS but we have to admit this thread is severely drifted off course.

                                      www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
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                                      • calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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                                        C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        that's a clevis and woodpecker fault - they can't help it, for some reason.

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