Possibility for HOF
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Zombo said:
Eli is not in my Hall of Fame, nor is Ryan.
Rodgers, Rivers, Ben, Brees, Brady are in.
Wilson is on the path.
Zombo
I don't think there is any debate about Brady, Ben R, Rodgers, Brees. (Peyton obviously as well...not eligible yet) Eli//Ryan//Rivers.....are issues. Eli's two SB wins have him obviously in the conversation. Rivers, Ryan....have numbers....but are numbers enough? Eli has numbers as well. Ryan should have had a SB win....gotta blame that on the ATL defense for giving up a 25 pt. lead. Rivers has one single AFC conf. championship game appearance to his record. ...for what that is worth.
On Eli's numbers, he kinda has those too:
Completions #6 all time (will pass Marino assuming he plays much)
Yards #7 all time
TDs #8
Rating #42
YPG #15
Game winning drives #9
Comeback #11
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Note this on numbers: Eli pretty much has the edge there as well:
Rivers
Completions #8 Eli #6
Yards #8 Eli #7
TDs Rivers 374 Eli 360
YPG Rivers #12 Eli #15
Rating Rivers #8 Eli much lower Eli's Ints an issue
Game winning drives #17 Eli #9
Comebacks #13 Eli #11
Honestly.....aside from the 2 SB wins....I think Eli has the numbers edge all around as well.
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Zombo said:
Eli is not in my Hall of Fame, nor is Ryan.
Rodgers, Rivers, Ben, Brees, Brady are in.
Wilson is on the path.
Zombo
I agree with Gipper Eli's two Super Bowl wins will be the ticket that gets him in. He's not getting in on the first ballot though.
Of non quarterbacks I thought Chris Carter got stiffed far too long.
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Zombo said:
Eli is not in my Hall of Fame, nor is Ryan.
Rodgers, Rivers, Ben, Brees, Brady are in.
Wilson is on the path.
Zombo
I agree with Gipper Eli's two Super Bowl wins will be the ticket that gets him in. He's not getting in on the first ballot though.
Of non quarterbacks I thought Chris Carter got stiffed far too long.
I agree with Gipper Eli's two Super Bowl wins will be the ticket that gets him in. He's not getting in on the first ballot though.
Of non quarterbacks I thought Chris Carter got stiffed far too long.
A. Like I said...he even has the numbers mostly over Rivers.
I am of the opinion that Eli/Rivers/BR will now be engaging in a dick swinging contest...to see who blinks first and retires from the league.
B. It took Carter like 12 or 13 years to make it. It took Swann 14. Based on comparative numbers....a guy like Gary Collins should have been chosen over him....however, he played on 4 title teams and make some spectacular catches in the SB. Collins overall was better, imo.
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Zombo said:
Well, if you just are compiling numbers, than Eli should have the edge because he had a year and a half head start ... Let's remember River backed up Brees for two years while Eli became the starter halfway through his rookie year.
But Rivers will more than make that up because Eli is most likely in his final year and Rivers is coming off three straight Pro Bowl Seasons, is getting a new contract, and they haven't even bothered drafting his heir yet.
But if you want to know who has been the more effective QB, then these are the numbers to look at:
Rivers 64.5 Comp%, 7.7 y/a, 5.3 TD %, 2.5% Int, 95.6 Rating
Eli 60.3 Comp%, 7.0 y/a, 4.5 TD %, 3.0% Int 84.1 Rating
Yards per Game, Rivers 257-241.
So Rivers is more accurate, for more average yards, with a higher percentage of TDs and a lower percentage of INTs
What is Eli better at again?
Winning Championships....playing for Championships.
8 Pro Bowls to 4 Pro Bowls ... I could go on.
Rivers is 5th among Active QBs in QB rating, and Eli is 22nd.
That, I believe is strictly based on Eli throwing more Ints. Of course, that is a factor, but that didn't hurt Brett Favre....all time Int. leader or Fouts, or Marino or Unitas or Tarkenton...or Peyton...who have all thrown for more career Ints for Eli.
Yes, Eli will eventually get in the HOF because of the two Super Bowls, but Rivers is the better QB, which is why he makes MY HOF and Eli doesn't.
I would put them both in...but I would put Eli in first.
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If I was asked by the HOF commitee (spellcheck?), I would vote for Rivers and leave Eli behind. The only thing Eli is the best at is at staying on the field. Almost never misses a game due to injury and that's remarkable.
He is lucky to have had good defenses for both SB runs and to play for a NY team that gets way more media attention than it deserves.
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If I was asked by the HOF commitee (spellcheck?), I would vote for Rivers and leave Eli behind. The only thing Eli is the best at is at staying on the field. Almost never misses a game due to injury and that's remarkable.
He is lucky to have had good defenses for both SB runs and to play for a NY team that gets way more media attention than it deserves.
If I was asked by the HOF commitee (spellcheck?), I would vote for Rivers and leave Eli behind. The only thing Eli is the best at is at staying on the field. Almost never misses a game due to injury and that's remarkable.
There are a lot of people in the HOF for just that reason. Not everyone who lasts gets in (see: Vinny)....but a lot are in for that reason.
He is lucky to have had good defenses for both SB runs and to play for a NY team that gets way more media attention than it deserves.
Every winning SB team has good defenses. And winning championships gets you media attention, be you in NYC or Cleveland. (LeBron had no trouble getting media attention when he was here.)
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Zombo said:
As I pointed out it was all four ingredients that go into the passer rating: Comp%, y/a, TD% and INT%
And they are from the same draft class, so need to bring up the guys from the 70's and 80's with higher interception percentages. Peyton has a lower intereception % than Eli as well, Rivers is closer statistically to Peyton than Eli is.
Zombo
Other than that Int. %....I saw the statistical differences as minimal.
But I disagree somewhat with the 80s guys not being able to be compared. The BIG change in QB stats came about in 1978 as a result of the bump and run rule changes. And the not hitting QB changes that came in then too. (plus many later). So, I think you can compare him to Favre and Marino....but no, not Bradshaw/Unitas. Good QBs back then could have a 1:1 TD to Int. ratio. And lower pass completions pct. yes. Also note that interceptions were more frequent. Paul Krause leading all in Ints....he played in the 60s. Thom Darden, Browns leader, in the 70s.
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Zombo said:
I dont know why you are hung up on interceptions, Rivers advantage is significant, but it is probably the least of their statistical differences.
Again ...
Rivers 64.5 Comp%, 7.7 y/a, 5.3 TD %, 2.5% Int, 95.6 Rating
Eli 60.3 Comp%, 7.0 y/a, 4.5 TD %, 3.0% Int 84.1 Rating
Yards per Game, Rivers 257-241.
Eli’s advantage is significant two championships to zero. More than makes up for the minor statistical differences. And is it his fault Rivers wasn’t considered good enough to start for his team as a rookie
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Zombo said:
It's a team sport.
And the differences aren't minor.
Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl, but it doesn't make him as good as Phillip Rivers, it just doesn't.
Eli is basically Joe Flacco with two rings instead of one. His longevity, durability and two amazing postseason runs will get him in the Hall. But he's not as good a QB as Rivers.
Z
Winning still counts. Someone here claimed that Bart Starr wasn’t all that good of a quarterback because his numbers weren’t quite as good. Does anyone want to contend that Bart Starr was not as good a quarterback is Philip Rivers?
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1. Russell Wilson--------------------------------yes
2. Jimmy Garrapolo---------------------------no
3. Derek Carr-------------------------------------no
4. Phillip Rivers--------------------------------yes
5. Jared Goff-----------------------------------yes
6. Kyler Murray--------------------------------total bust
7. Joe Flacco----------------------------------no
8. Dak Prescott------------------------------definite maybe
9. DeShaun Watson----------------------no
10. Kirk Cousins---------------------------no
11. Patick Mahomes--------------------yes
12. Drew Brees-----------------------------tie for first yes with Brady
13. Aaron Rodgers-----------------------yes
14. Mitch Trubisky-----------------------no
15. Matt Stafford-------------------------no
16. Andrew Luck/Jacoby Brissquet-no
17. Baker Mayfield----------------------turn the Browns into yearly playoff contenders would do the trick
18. Andy Dalton---------------------------LOLOLOLOL
19. Marcus Mariota----------------------ditto
20. Matt Ryan-------------------------------only a SB win would do it
21. Nick Foles--------------------------------no
22. Jameis Winston-----------------------nope
23. Ryan Fitzpatrick/Josh Rosen--ditto
24. Cam Newton-----------------------------no
25. Case Keenum---------------------------lol
26. Lamar Jackson-------------------------no
27. Ben Roethlisberger--------------------yes
28. Carson Wentz----------------------------no
29. Josh Allen---------------------------------tied for LOLOLOLOL with Dalton
30. Sam Darnold------------------------------just maybe-see Baker Mayfield
31. Eli Manning--------------------------------big brother wins the lobby effect
32. Tom Brady---------------------------------see Brees
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Zombo said:
I have great respect for Bart Starr, my point is simply that Philip Rivers is a better QB than Eli Manning, and you don't have to go back in history to prove it, their careers are right in front of us.
Rivers also has a higher winning % than Manning, who is two games over .500 and will probably be a .500 career qb by week three.
He had two great postseason runs. With the help of some circus catches and a relentless pass rush.
Good, durable, reliable Qb that made some history. Not a great QB, and not as good as Rivers. Or Ben. He was easily the third best QB in that draft.
Z
OK, well, you are entitled to be wrong once in a while.
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They will both get in....so it is really superfluous. The question is: who retires first?
The Giants really, imo, have become a bad organization in the last few years and that has hurt Eli's win pct. I think Eli should go somewhere else? (maybe Indy). I mean, Johnny U. did it, Joe Namath did it. Joe Montana did it.
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Zombo said:
He's going to walk away a Giant for life. If the season goes South he'll be replaced by Jones and that will be the end.
As I mentioned earlier, the Chargers are looking to work out a new contract with Rivers and have not drafted his replacement yet, he is still at the top of his game.
Z
That's a theory. We shall see. Peyton got the hell out of Dodge in Indy and went elsewhere even after major injuries. Eli could do the same....and not have the injuries.
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