Da Bears - Time to move on past Trubisky? Another draft casualty?
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The dude had, what, 12 college starts and then gets thrown in as starter almost from the jump. He has some success initially, because the Bears kept things simple, but once they tried to expand the playbook and ask him to do what is expected of a veteran QB, he's struggled.
How many times do we have to see this scenario play out before NFL teams stop making this mistake?
We lived through the Kizer fiasco......I only wonder if he had stayed one more full year at ND before before turning professional football, oh well.....
We lived through the Kizer fiasco......I only wonder if he had stayed one more full year at ND before before turning professional football, oh well.....
I think if he had stayed his whole time....he still would have sucked. And yea, Tribs probably should have stayed another year. But....if you are going to be an assured Top Ten pick in the draft.....(despite the departed Stan's opinion) you don't stick around college. You get your money. I still think there is a great chance for Trubisky to be very good. He has to have the right coaching (an issue I believe that affects Baker now as well)
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We lived through the Kizer fiasco......I only wonder if he had stayed one more full year at ND before before turning professional football, oh well.....
I think if he had stayed his whole time....he still would have sucked. And yea, Tribs probably should have stayed another year. But....if you are going to be an assured Top Ten pick in the draft.....(despite the departed Stan's opinion) you don't stick around college. You get your money. I still think there is a great chance for Trubisky to be very good. He has to have the right coaching (an issue I believe that affects Baker now as well)
I think if he had stayed his whole time....he still would have sucked. And yea, Tribs probably should have stayed another year. But....if you are going to be an assured Top Ten pick in the draft.....(despite the departed Stan's opinion) you don't stick around college. You get your money. I still think there is a great chance for Trubisky to be very good. He has to have the right coaching (an issue I believe that affects Baker now as well)
He would have been much better -but- maybe not a first round pick or instant starter but we'll never really know for sure.
To be stuck as a starter for 15 games on that team was a "no win" situation.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
I think if he had stayed his whole time....he still would have sucked. And yea, Tribs probably should have stayed another year. But....if you are going to be an assured Top Ten pick in the draft.....(despite the departed Stan's opinion) you don't stick around college. You get your money. I still think there is a great chance for Trubisky to be very good. He has to have the right coaching (an issue I believe that affects Baker now as well)
He would have been much better -but- maybe not a first round pick or instant starter but we'll never really know for sure.
To be stuck as a starter for 15 games on that team was a "no win" situation.
He would have been much better -but- maybe not a first round pick or instant starter but we'll never really know for sure.
To be stuck as a starter for 15 games on that team was a "no win" situation.
If you want to call being paid millions and millions of dollars "no win".....perhaps.
Somehow, I am not sure that the recipient of those checks might see it that same way:
The total value of Trubisky's four-year, $29,032,424 millioncontract is worth less than the average annual value of Aaron Rodgers' new deal ($33.5 million), and is only a couple million more than the average annual value paid out to Kirk Cousins ($28 million) and Matthew Stafford ($27 million).
Rookie wage scale gave him a measly $7, 250,000 per year.
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He would have been much better -but- maybe not a first round pick or instant starter but we'll never really know for sure.
To be stuck as a starter for 15 games on that team was a "no win" situation.
If you want to call being paid millions and millions of dollars "no win".....perhaps.
Somehow, I am not sure that the recipient of those checks might see it that same way:
The total value of Trubisky's four-year, $29,032,424 millioncontract is worth less than the average annual value of Aaron Rodgers' new deal ($33.5 million), and is only a couple million more than the average annual value paid out to Kirk Cousins ($28 million) and Matthew Stafford ($27 million).
Rookie wage scale gave him a measly $7, 250,000 per year.
If you want to call being paid millions and millions of dollars "no win".....perhaps.
The "no win" was on the BROWNS end. And if I could get a million or more now and I was 20ish and didn't want to wait I'd might take it.
Or have the college take out a $1M++ insurance policy and get the much needed extra experience and probably move up in the draft, enjoy another year in college, get a bigger deal and relax...... that's the smart move.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
I always wondered about that too. Also, lots of similarities between Kizer and Baker right now. High passes, running to the right and chucking it, turning it over in the red zone, hardly ever throwing TD passes, bad luck INTs off receiver's hands, etc.
Oh and if traded or whatever what would his value be? Starter on a desperate team? Backup on a good team with an established quarterback -or- do da Bears keep him?
Oh and if traded or whatever what would his value be? Starter on a desperate team? Backup on a good team with an established quarterback -or- do da Bears keep him?
Honestly, I think giving up on a young QB is the wrong move. Yeah, he's been awful, but so has Baker and we're not giving up on him.
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Oh and if traded or whatever what would his value be? Starter on a desperate team? Backup on a good team with an established quarterback -or- do da Bears keep him?
Honestly, I think giving up on a young QB is the wrong move. Yeah, he's been awful, but so has Baker and we're not giving up on him.
Honestly, I think giving up on a young QB is the wrong move. Yeah, he's been awful, but so has Baker and we're not giving up on him.
The most valuable and expensive player in team sports and the hardest to find is an NFL franchise quarterback I guess MT apparently is not that so where does he fit in?
Maybe given more time he would fit in as a servicable starter until the Bears can figure out a plan B, look what the BROWNS went through looking, waiting and finally hoping Baker was the guy, I think he still has the potential to be a good quarterback for the BROWNS.
The class of 2020 has some interesting names but here we go again trying to find out who the professional quarterbacks are in the group. Here's generally where you start:
ODDS TO WIN 2019 HEISMAN TROPHY (12/7/19) - destined to go to a bad team as usual. -. Oh right now the Bears do NOT have a first round pick in 2020 !Team Odds Joe Burrow (LSU) 6/5 Jalen Hurts (Oklahoma) 7/5 Tua Tagovailoa (Alabama) 7/2 Justin Fields (Ohio State) 10/1 Jonathan Taylor (Wisconsin) 40/1 Justin Herbert (Oregon) 40/1 Sam Ehlinger (Texas) 60/1 D'Andre Swift (Georgia) 80/1 Trevor Lawrence (Clemson) 100/1 Travis Etienne (Clemson) 100/1 Chuba Hubbard (Oklahoma State) 100/1 Jerry Jeudy (Alabama) 200/1 J.K. Dobbins (Ohio State) 200/1 GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
If you want to call being paid millions and millions of dollars "no win".....perhaps.
The "no win" was on the BROWNS end. And if I could get a million or more now and I was 20ish and didn't want to wait I'd might take it.
Or have the college take out a $1M++ insurance policy and get the much needed extra experience and probably move up in the draft, enjoy another year in college, get a bigger deal and relax...... that's the smart move.
The "no win" was on the BROWNS end. And if I could get a million or more now and I was 20ish and didn't want to wait I'd might take it.
Or have the college take out a $1M++ insurance policy and get the much needed extra experience and probably move up in the draft, enjoy another year in college, get a bigger deal and relax...... that's the smart move.
Do you mean' "on the BEARS end? Since Trubisky plays for the Bears, not the Browns.
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Honestly, I think giving up on a young QB is the wrong move. Yeah, he's been awful, but so has Baker and we're not giving up on him.
The most valuable and expensive player in team sports and the hardest to find is an NFL franchise quarterback I guess MT apparently is not that so where does he fit in?
Maybe given more time he would fit in as a servicable starter until the Bears can figure out a plan B, look what the BROWNS went through looking, waiting and finally hoping Baker was the guy, I think he still has the potential to be a good quarterback for the BROWNS.
The class of 2020 has some interesting names but here we go again trying to find out who the professional quarterbacks are in the group. Here's generally where you start:
ODDS TO WIN 2019 HEISMAN TROPHY (12/7/19) - destined to go to a bad team as usual. -. Oh right now the Bears do NOT have a first round pick in 2020 !Team Odds Joe Burrow (LSU) 6/5 Jalen Hurts (Oklahoma) 7/5 Tua Tagovailoa (Alabama) 7/2 Justin Fields (Ohio State) 10/1 Jonathan Taylor (Wisconsin) 40/1 Justin Herbert (Oregon) 40/1 Sam Ehlinger (Texas) 60/1 D'Andre Swift (Georgia) 80/1 Trevor Lawrence (Clemson) 100/1 Travis Etienne (Clemson) 100/1 Chuba Hubbard (Oklahoma State) 100/1 Jerry Jeudy (Alabama) 200/1 J.K. Dobbins (Ohio State) 200/1 The most valuable and expensive player in team sports and the hardest to find is an NFL franchise quarterback I guess MT apparently is not that so where does he fit in?
Maybe given more time he would fit in as a servicable starter until the Bears can figure out a plan B, look what the BROWNS went through looking, waiting and finally hoping Baker was the guy, I think he still has the potential to be a good quarterback for the BROWNS.
The class of 2020 has some interesting names but here we go again trying to find out who the professional quarterbacks are in the group. Here's generally where you start:
ODDS TO WIN 2019 HEISMAN TROPHY (12/7/19) - destined to go to a bad team as usual.Team Odds Joe Burrow (LSU) 6/5 Jalen Hurts (Oklahoma) 7/5 Tua Tagovailoa (Alabama) 7/2 Justin Fields (Ohio State) 10/1 Jonathan Taylor (Wisconsin) 40/1 Justin Herbert (Oregon) 40/1 Sam Ehlinger (Texas) 60/1 D'Andre Swift (Georgia) 80/1 Trevor Lawrence (Clemson) 100/1 Travis Etienne (Clemson) 100/1 Chuba Hubbard (Oklahoma State) 100/1 Jerry Jeudy (Alabama) 200/1 J.K. Dobbins (Ohio State) 200/1 I am of the opinion that none of those top 4 would likely make a really good NFL QB.
When Lawrence comes out....he is still odds on favorite to be the #1 overall pick that year.
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The "no win" was on the BROWNS end. And if I could get a million or more now and I was 20ish and didn't want to wait I'd might take it.
Or have the college take out a $1M++ insurance policy and get the much needed extra experience and probably move up in the draft, enjoy another year in college, get a bigger deal and relax...... that's the smart move.
Do you mean' "on the BEARS end? Since Trubisky plays for the Bears, not the Browns.
Do you mean' "on the BEARS end? Since Trubisky plays for the Bears, not the Browns.
We were talking about Kizer in that case.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
The most valuable and expensive player in team sports and the hardest to find is an NFL franchise quarterback I guess MT apparently is not that so where does he fit in?
Maybe given more time he would fit in as a servicable starter until the Bears can figure out a plan B, look what the BROWNS went through looking, waiting and finally hoping Baker was the guy, I think he still has the potential to be a good quarterback for the BROWNS.
The class of 2020 has some interesting names but here we go again trying to find out who the professional quarterbacks are in the group. Here's generally where you start:
ODDS TO WIN 2019 HEISMAN TROPHY (12/7/19) - destined to go to a bad team as usual.Team Odds Joe Burrow (LSU) 6/5 Jalen Hurts (Oklahoma) 7/5 Tua Tagovailoa (Alabama) 7/2 Justin Fields (Ohio State) 10/1 Jonathan Taylor (Wisconsin) 40/1 Justin Herbert (Oregon) 40/1 Sam Ehlinger (Texas) 60/1 D'Andre Swift (Georgia) 80/1 Trevor Lawrence (Clemson) 100/1 Travis Etienne (Clemson) 100/1 Chuba Hubbard (Oklahoma State) 100/1 Jerry Jeudy (Alabama) 200/1 J.K. Dobbins (Ohio State) 200/1 I am of the opinion that none of those top 4 would likely make a really good NFL QB.
When Lawrence comes out....he is still odds on favorite to be the #1 overall pick that year.
I am of the opinion that none of those top 4 would likely make a really good NFL QB.
When Lawrence comes out....he is still odds on favorite to be the #1 overall pick that year.
They certainty have not been sorted out yet.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
Do you mean' "on the BEARS end? Since Trubisky plays for the Bears, not the Browns.
We were talking about Kizer in that case.
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I am of the opinion that none of those top 4 would likely make a really good NFL QB.
When Lawrence comes out....he is still odds on favorite to be the #1 overall pick that year.
They certainty have not been sorted out yet.
They certainty have not been sorted out yet.
Well...some predictions have been made, but base on those....I agree with you:
CBS QB Prospects.
RKPLAYERSCHOOLYEARPOSPOS RKHTWT
1Tua TagovailoaAlabamaJrQB16-12185
Justin HerbertOregonSrQB26-623715
Jake FrommGeorgiaJrQB36-222038
K.J. CostelloStanfordSrQB46-522255
Steven MontezColoradoSrQB56-523068
Shea PattersonMichiganSrQB66-220289
McKenzie MiltonUCFSrQB75-1118598
Jacob EasonWashingtonJrQB86-6227
They don't have Hurts or Burrows in there....both of whom could come out. (Fields not eligible)
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I think if he had stayed his whole time....he still would have sucked. And yea, Tribs probably should have stayed another year. But....if you are going to be an assured Top Ten pick in the draft.....(despite the departed Stan's opinion) you don't stick around college. You get your money. I still think there is a great chance for Trubisky to be very good. He has to have the right coaching (an issue I believe that affects Baker now as well)
He would have been much better -but- maybe not a first round pick or instant starter but we'll never really know for sure.
To be stuck as a starter for 15 games on that team was a "no win" situation.
-
We lived through the Kizer fiasco......I only wonder if he had stayed one more full year at ND before before turning professional football, oh well.....
I think if he had stayed his whole time....he still would have sucked. And yea, Tribs probably should have stayed another year. But....if you are going to be an assured Top Ten pick in the draft.....(despite the departed Stan's opinion) you don't stick around college. You get your money. I still think there is a great chance for Trubisky to be very good. He has to have the right coaching (an issue I believe that affects Baker now as well)
I think if he had stayed his whole time....he still would have sucked. And yea, Tribs probably should have stayed another year. But....if you are going to be an assured Top Ten pick in the draft.....(despite the departed Stan's opinion) you don't stick around college. You get your money. I still think there is a great chance for Trubisky to be very good. He has to have the right coaching (an issue I believe that affects Baker now as well)
If you're comparing Kizer and Trubisky's college careers, there's no comparison. I scouted both of them a bunch, and I was on record Kizer totally sucked at Notre Dame, and had bust written all over him. Not so with Mitch.
I did think the Bears made a mistake trading up that high for Trubisky.
I'll agree with jiggins that currently Maxfield is showing some distressing Deshone tendencies, but Kizer never came close to stringing together a series of good games like Baker did last year.
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I think if he had stayed his whole time....he still would have sucked. And yea, Tribs probably should have stayed another year. But....if you are going to be an assured Top Ten pick in the draft.....(despite the departed Stan's opinion) you don't stick around college. You get your money. I still think there is a great chance for Trubisky to be very good. He has to have the right coaching (an issue I believe that affects Baker now as well)
If you're comparing Kizer and Trubisky's college careers, there's no comparison. I scouted both of them a bunch, and I was on record Kizer totally sucked at Notre Dame, and had bust written all over him. Not so with Mitch.
I did think the Bears made a mistake trading up that high for Trubisky.
I'll agree with jiggins that currently Maxfield is showing some distressing Deshone tendencies, but Kizer never came close to stringing together a series of good games like Baker did last year.
If you're comparing Kizer and Trubisky's college careers, there's no comparison. I scouted both of them a bunch, and I was on record Kizer totally sucked at Notre Dame, and had bust written all over him. Not so with Mitch.
I did think the Bears made a mistake trading up that high for Trubisky.
I'll agree with jiggins that currently Maxfield is showing some distressing Deshone tendencies, but Kizer never came close to stringing together a series of good games like Baker did last year.
Kizer had some good measurables as far as being a prospect goes... Good height.. Good Arm ... Athletic.. NFL type body... He lacked Vision, Poise and Accuracy...
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If you're comparing Kizer and Trubisky's college careers, there's no comparison. I scouted both of them a bunch, and I was on record Kizer totally sucked at Notre Dame, and had bust written all over him. Not so with Mitch.
I did think the Bears made a mistake trading up that high for Trubisky.
I'll agree with jiggins that currently Maxfield is showing some distressing Deshone tendencies, but Kizer never came close to stringing together a series of good games like Baker did last year.
Kizer had some good measurables as far as being a prospect goes... Good height.. Good Arm ... Athletic.. NFL type body... He lacked Vision, Poise and Accuracy...
Kizer had some good measurables as far as being a prospect goes... Good height.. Good Arm ... Athletic.. NFL type body... He lacked Vision, Poise and Accuracy...
On that oh-16 team he really didn't have much of a chance to show what he could do. Could he have benefited from another full year at ND definitely.
Should he have got a school paid $1M+ insurance policy and spent a year improving his draft status and a better deal, Absolutely.
DeShone Kizer signed a 4 year, $4,948,416 contract with the Cleveland Browns, including a $1,738,848 signing bonus, $2,428,776 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $1,237,104. In 2019, Kizer will earn a base salary of $914,856, while carrying a cap hit of $914,856.
Would he have done better on a better team his rookie year..... we'll never really know, he didn't do much at GB either.
The brief career of DeShone Kizer:
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 18 15 0-15-0 275 518 53.1 3081 11 2.1 24 4.6 139 56 5.9 4.3 11.2 171.2 58.9 42 264 5.03 3.49 7.5 6 1 yr CLE 15 15 0-15-0 255 476 53.6 2894 11 2.3 22 4.6 131 56 6.1 4.5 11.3 192.9 60.5 38 226 5.19 3.69 7.4 5 1 yr GNB 3 0 20 42 47.6 187 0 0.0 2 4.8 8 29 4.5 2.3 9.4 62.3 40.5 4 38 3.24 1.28 8.7 1 2017 21 CLE QB 7 15 15 0-15-0 255 476 53.6 2894 11 2.3 22 4.6 131 56 6.1 4.5 11.3 192.9 60.5 29.7 38 226 5.19 3.69 7.4 5 2018 22 GNB 9 3 0 20 42 47.6 187 0 0.0 2 4.8 8 29 4.5 2.3 9.4 62.3 40.5 25.2 4 38 3.24 1.28 8.7 1 And Mitchell Trubisky:
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 31 31 18-13-0 588 924 63.6 6255 36 3.9 21 2.3 312 70 6.8 6.5 10.6 201.8 86.8 65 398 5.92 5.69 6.6 2 4 20 2017 23 CHI QB 10 12 12 4-8-0 196 330 59.4 2193 7 2.1 7 2.1 100 70 6.6 6.1 11.2 182.8 77.5 31.6 31 196 5.53 5.05 8.6 0 1 7 2018* 24 CHI QB 10 14 14 11-3-0 289 434 66.6 3223 24 5.5 12 2.8 163 70 7.4 7.3 11.2 230.2 95.4 70.8 24 143 6.72 6.59 5.2 1 2 13 2019 25 CHI QB 10 5 5 3-2-0 103 160 64.4 839 5 3.1 2 1.3 49 36 5.2 5.3 8.1 167.8 82.8 31.8 10 59 4.59 4.65 5.9 1 1 GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
We lived through the Kizer fiasco......I only wonder if he had stayed one more full year at ND before before turning professional football, oh well.....
I always wondered about that too. Also, lots of similarities between Kizer and Baker right now. High passes, running to the right and chucking it, turning it over in the red zone, hardly ever throwing TD passes, bad luck INTs off receiver's hands, etc.
I always wondered about that too. Also, lots of similarities between Kizer and Baker right now. High passes, running to the right and chucking it, turning it over in the red zone, hardly ever throwing TD passes, bad luck INTs off receiver's hands, etc.
It's deja vu all over again!?
EDIT: Don't you guys have any local witches who can ward off the evil spell on the Browns???
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I always wondered about that too. Also, lots of similarities between Kizer and Baker right now. High passes, running to the right and chucking it, turning it over in the red zone, hardly ever throwing TD passes, bad luck INTs off receiver's hands, etc.
It's deja vu all over again!?
EDIT: Don't you guys have any local witches who can ward off the evil spell on the Browns???
It's deja vu all over again!?
EDIT: Don't you guys have any local witches who can ward off the evil spell on the Browns???
theyre all dead!!
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It's deja vu all over again!?
EDIT: Don't you guys have any local witches who can ward off the evil spell on the Browns???
theyre all dead!!
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I think if he had stayed his whole time....he still would have sucked. And yea, Tribs probably should have stayed another year. But....if you are going to be an assured Top Ten pick in the draft.....(despite the departed Stan's opinion) you don't stick around college. You get your money. I still think there is a great chance for Trubisky to be very good. He has to have the right coaching (an issue I believe that affects Baker now as well)
If you're comparing Kizer and Trubisky's college careers, there's no comparison. I scouted both of them a bunch, and I was on record Kizer totally sucked at Notre Dame, and had bust written all over him. Not so with Mitch.
I did think the Bears made a mistake trading up that high for Trubisky.
I'll agree with jiggins that currently Maxfield is showing some distressing Deshone tendencies, but Kizer never came close to stringing together a series of good games like Baker did last year.
If you're comparing Kizer and Trubisky's college careers, there's no comparison. I scouted both of them a bunch, and I was on record Kizer totally sucked at Notre Dame, and had bust written all over him. Not so with Mitch.
I did think the Bears made a mistake trading up that high for Trubisky.
I'll agree with jiggins that currently Maxfield is showing some distressing Deshone tendencies, but Kizer never came close to stringing together a series of good games like Baker did last year.
It looks like Baker had more of a Heisman Trophy-type Banquet circuit after his rookie year than he did the off-season leading up to the draft. He had to stay in shape, put football 1st in the off=season for the draft, and then he had to compete to start throughout training camp... After setting the rookie record for TD passes despite only 13 starts - Baker seemed to feel like he proved what he set out to prove.
What came next? The volume of commercials NO Cleveland Brown ever has. Can we go a college football Saturday or NFL Sunday without seeing Baker in a commercial? He also got married this off-season. Last but not least, we landed OBJ which probably had him feeling Easy Street ahead. He also lost the continuity of the position coach that had him far more fundamentally sound than I've seen this year throwing off the backward hops while running around in the pocket holding onto the ball way too long (complete opposite of the guy that got rid of the ball quickly and accurately in 2018).
He is NOT DeShone Kizer. Kizer's college coach said Kizer wasn't ready for the NFL Game. Baker's college coach said he was the ideal 1st round QB. As much as Colon Cowhyde's REAL Franchise QB Sam Darnold epitomized flawless passing despite watching The 13 Ghosts on every play Monday Night - Baker will find his way back to what has worked over the mental errors and evils of holding onto the ball too long.
Trubisky led the Bears to what should have been the go ahead points in the playoffs before Parkey's foot parkey'd the Bears into hibernation. This year, his offensive line has been horrible while some of his favorite targets have missed games to injury. He's not a miracle worker; but I've seen evidence the Bears can win with him as recently as last year.
Hey, I predicted Lamar Jackson would suck! How am I doing on that one? We can keep excusing every win they have - but once upon a time this guy won a Heisman Trophy regardless of the style of QB he played making Louisville far more relevant than you see them today. The same Seattle team that forced 4 turnovers on us - had ZERO solutions for him. Last year they were 4-5 with Joey Bottaflacco and they surged to playoffs after he took over at QB with the exact same teammates on offense and defense - hate it or not. They weren't keeping drives alive at all until the QB change, which got them all the way up to #2 in the NFL in rushing (which relieved tired tired legs on their defense to the extent both sides played better). YES, I know it wasn't passing but the change at 1 position cpr'd 4-5 football into 10-6 football. This year they're 5-2 even after the "wait til they play Seattle AT SEATTLE." While his style is high risk and reckless in every way - nobody ever gets a clean shot on him much like Russell Wilson behind a much better offensive line than Wilson usually has. If this was still the same NFL I grew up watching, I would be more inclined to agree with all those thinking he won't last - but it isn't... Good news? We kicked HIS asss into what I thought he'd be with multiple turnovers and horrible passing stats.
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